1872 Cup 2015, Round 2: Glasgow v Edinburgh

First topic message reminder :



It's that time again. The oldest thing in world rugby. Seen here holding the 1872 Cup:



The social club versus the members-only golf club, the unwashed versus the exfoliators, the heroin users versus the social drinkers, the chips & cheese versus the salt & sauce, the ramraiders versus the online bank hackers, the knock-off Rolecks versus the original Pateks, the Gregg's versus the Pain Quotidien and the aggressive cardiac arrest versus the stress-related work sign-off for a fortnight.

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Glasgow Warriors v Edinburgh Rugby
Saturday 2nd January 2016
At Scotstoun Stadium, 5.15pm.
Live on Sky Sports

Referee: Peter Fitzgibbon (IRFU, 66th competition game)
Assistant Referees: Lloyd Linton, Graeme Wells (both SRU)
Citing Commissioner: John Montgomery (SRU)
TMO: Jim Yuille (SRU)

C. Past Winners

2007-2008: Glasgow Warriors - Aggregate Score: 54–49

2008-2009: Edinburgh Rugby - Aggregate Score: 59-31

2009-2010: Glasgow Warriors - Aggregate Score: 47-27

2010-2011: Glasgow Warriors - Aggregate Score: 47-46

2011-2012: Glasgow Warriors - Aggregate Score: 40-35

2012-2013: Glasgow Warriors - Aggregate Score: 44-31

2013-2014: Glasgow Warriors - Aggregate Score: 57-50

2014-2015: Edinburgh Rugby - Aggregate Score: 26-24

2015: Edinburgh rugby 23 - Glasgow 11

D. Teams

Glasgow Warriors

Stuart Hogg, Taqele Naiyaravoro, Mark Bennett, Peter Horne, Sean Lamont, Duncan Weir, Ali Price; Gordon Reid, Fraser Brown, Zander Fagerson, Greg Peterson, Jonny Gray (captain), Ryan Wilson, Chris Fusaro, Josh Strauss.

Replacements: Shalva Mamukashvili, Ryan Grant, Sila Puafisi, Leone Nakarawa, Hugh Blake; Grayson Hart, Peter Murchie, Lee Jones.

Edinburgh Rugby

Jack Cuthbert, Dougie Fife, Michael Allen, Matt Scott, Damien Hoyland, Phil Burleigh, Sam Hidalgo-Clyne; Rory Sutherland, Ross Ford, WP Nel, Anton Bresler, Ben Toolis, Mike Coman (captain), John Hardie, Cornell Du Preez.

Replacements: Neil Cochrane, Allan Dell, John Andress, Alex Toolis, Jamie Ritchie, Sean Kennedy, Greig Tonks, Andries Strauss.

Two bald men fighting over a comb and i'm not talking about Fitzgibbon and the Glasgow hooker.

Edinburgh going to win by being the Least Rubbish Team tonight.

I don't have sky sports and the cowardly warriors wouldn't let more Edinburgh fans into HQ so I'm not getting to see this game

Word on the street is that Glasgow are Ritchie McCaw'ing thier way to victory!

Absolute rubbish. Challenge cup rugby for us next season. Bugger.

Indeed, what a poor game this has been.

Warriors have been awful. Edinburgh less so. Is this the best Scottish rugby has to offer.

Would've been more entertaining to make them play this in Scotstoun wearing wetsuits

BBC!! listening to the game as I can't watch it at the moment. So using the BBC app which is broadcasting the game's radio feed, except now it's not. Now if you choose to listen to the game you get the news and then I assume Brian *expletive *Burnett with his shi*y "floor fillers"

If there was an emoticon for how I'm feeling right now, it could only be a black hole that pulls in all light and matter within 5 light-years.

Naive from Glasgow and I presume Jonny Gray.

That would have been spun along the backline for a try last season. What's happened to our confidence?

Perhaps a symptom of Weir rather than Russell?

Well done Edinburgh.

Well done Edinburgh, it was deserved.

Glasgow...

Headless chickens - Glasgow got what they deserved!

Yes well done Edinburgh, great guts in defence. There is the makings of a decent side there.

Glasgow unfortunately really seem to have lost their Mojo, showing some flashes, but still not just there.

Another not so great game, where the best team won. Banter aside certain ( a minority, the rest are great) Glasgow supporters must be feeling a bit foolish tonight. Never mind lads-A very happy New Year to you all and good luck in Europe. Oh and you'll have had your tea?

Did Peter Horne get injured? Anyone know how bad if so?

Nematode wrote:Did Peter Horne get injured? Anyone know how bad if so?

Yes he did and it looked a bad one. a knee gone again I think

Gordon Reid limped off as well, not good for Glasgow or Scotland

Hoggy missed tackle probably cost us that game, but our intensity in the second half just dropped right off. Hard to explain why that was

Me right now.

Hope it isn't too bad for Horne after the knee injury vs SA a few years back.

Feel for Glasgow having to play both legs away from home, though Edinburgh did at least do them the courtesy of looking so thoroughly clueless for most of the match that you could be forgiven for thinking they were in unfamiliar surroundings.

Still, a big fan of the outcome! Starting to enjoy this annual slaughter of the unwashed.....

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:Feel for Glasgow having to play both legs away from home, though Edinburgh did at least do them the courtesy of looking so thoroughly clueless for most of the match that you could be forgiven for thinking they were in unfamiliar surroundings.

Still, a big fan of the outcome! Starting to enjoy this annual slaughter of the unwashed.....

Yes, Glasgow lost neither of those games because they were playing away, it was more that they have forgotten how to play!

All weegies relax. 9 points between 1st and 8th, Glasgow a game in hand and half a season to play. Sure will have to play much better but the surface will harden plus...

I honestly believe much of this is world cup hangover where the squad hasn't played regularly from season start.

BELIEVE

Well done burgh. Enjoy the gift of champions cup rugby - see yas there know the final next season

Ps don't underestimate the general worsening of a team playing away from home ! I don't think you can ever concretely say it's because a team was away but it can be the reason for notfiring at key moments

Well, same as last week; the team that refused to lose won.

Meatball showed his limitations as a decision maker tonight.

Price and Hart showed that after Henners and Blair there is a vertical drop on the talent chart.

Bearing in mind that when Hornee did his cruciate against the Boks he had to be dragged from the pitch the alacrity with which he lay down and waited for treatment suggests we will be without him for an extended period.

Schlong started brightly with a very good clearing kick after the MFL kicked to him. They continued to send restarts straight to him; the second he kicked long but infield, putting us under pressure and the third was blocked, putting us under pressure. I think those were the bright spots in his game.

At one point late in the second half the possession statistics were 75-25% in the MFL's favour.

Glasgow should have been comfortably out of sight after twenty minutes such was their dominance but they made far too many stupid choices and kept giving the ball to the Exfoliators.

Full credit to Edinburgh for refusing to lose.

Lots of stick to Glasgow for somehow managing to find a way to lose.

Thanks Jimbo kind words. Agreed Glasgow should have put that to bed early doors, but Edinburgh aren't an easy team to beat these days. Hope both teams kick on from this and finish 1 2 in the league.

Well I missed the last 20 minutes but having seen the first 60 I'm utterly flabbergasted that Glasgow didn't win that. 26% possession in the first half, lineout a shambles yet we somehow find a way to win.

Sounds like after we scored Glasgow managed to work their way up to our line? How long did we hold them out for?

Glasgow were camped on the Edinburgh line for close to 10 minutes but Edinburgh's defense stayed strong including a great tackle from Burleigh on Weir at some point. It was only at the 85th minute mark that Edinburgh had won that game.

I reckon if it was an away game Glasgow would have gone for the post at the end to ensure a draw but got to give credit to the Weegies for going for the win, they really wanted the win in front of the home support.

What turned the match around was Alex Toolis coming on, the lineout improved dramatically and so did the lineout drive. Ben Toolis didn't really look match fit which is understandable.

Treviso next. I hope Bresler and Du Preez get rested, they put in a huge shift tonight and deserve a rest.

Unless Manu is fit which seems unlikely Du Preez will play, can't see Solly starting Ritchie or Bradbury.

Sounds pretty epic. Shame the highlights will only show the final whistle instead of the whole defensive effort.

I think we need to be full strength next week and aim for a 4 try bp. We've put ourselves in a great position in the league and need to make the most of it while we can. Bresler and Du Preez can hopefully be rested for Agen.

Maybe we can hope for a backrow of 6 Hardie, 7 Watson and Coman at 8. Indeed, it does seem unimaginable to see either of Ritchie and Bradbury starting, sadly. I'm actually quite concerned about Bradbury, he looks like the real deal to me going forwards and he is behind Ritchie in the pecking order, i hope he doesn't feel the need to move on in order to get gametime elsewhere.

All slightly limp wristed from Glasgow. Thought Ryan Wilson was a complete queen throughout the game with his faux hardman pushing and shoving all match. If only he could actually make yards.

All in all very positive from an Edinburgh perspective. I like the Scott\Allan midfield combo and I completely agree with Vince that Alex Toolis is having a good season for us and played a key cameo. Rory Sutherland played well and I liked Bresler and Du Preez all game. Over both legs we did a great job on Big T. Shades of the 1995 World Cup Final when South Africa shackled Lomu.

From a Glasgow perspective I thought Fraser Brown showed up very well in the loose, and Mark Bennett was outstanding as usual. Hogg had a poor match and Weir was comically bad. Sean "the cheetah" Lamont never got going and as noted above, Wilson was the weak link with Fusaro, Blake and Strauss all far more impressive.

Just one final question: when does this Annual Slaughter of the Effeminates take place? I thought it had something to do with the rugby but clearly not....

RDW_Scotland wrote:Sounds pretty epic. Shame the highlights will only show the final whistle instead of the whole defensive effort.

I think we need to be full strength next week and aim for a 4 try bp. We've put ourselves in a great position in the league and need to make the most of it while we can. Bresler and Du Preez can hopefully be rested for Agen.

RDW you will unsurprised that I disagree with you. The pack all looked *****ed today. I think we'll start those who are fit.

Sammy and Phil at 9/10 obviously.

justified sinner wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Sounds pretty epic. Shame the highlights will only show the final whistle instead of the whole defensive effort.

I think we need to be full strength next week and aim for a 4 try bp. We've put ourselves in a great position in the league and need to make the most of it while we can. Bresler and Du Preez can hopefully be rested for Agen.

RDW you will unsurprised that I disagree with you.  The pack all looked *****ed today. I think we'll start those who are fit.

Sammy and Phil at 9/10 obviously.

Agreed, we need to see some rotation in the next game. Bresler can bench with the Toolis brothers starting, and Du Preez can bench with Coman at 8 and Richie and Watson on the flanks. Andress and Cochrane to start as well. Less bothered about the backs being shifted about. In fact I'd probably keep the same backline for the next match, with possibly Tonks in for Cuthbert (who showed up well against the great unwashed).

justified sinner wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Sounds pretty epic. Shame the highlights will only show the final whistle instead of the whole defensive effort.

I think we need to be full strength next week and aim for a 4 try bp. We've put ourselves in a great position in the league and need to make the most of it while we can. Bresler and Du Preez can hopefully be rested for Agen.

RDW you will unsurprised that I disagree with you.  The pack all looked *****ed today. I think we'll start those who are fit.

Sammy and Phil at 9/10 obviously.

That's fair enough - I only saw part of the game - but we don't have many options. We only have 3 fit locks so at best Bresler will be benched and the Toolis' (the new Grays) play, which I'd like to see. Du Preez must be puggled but I can't see Hardie being played at 6 so the only way to rest Du Preez would be Ritchie at 6 and Coman at 8.

I also agree that Bradbury looks a real prospect and I don't understand why he's not being played!

Here's a stat to end the night - Edinburgh have only conceded 11 tries in 11 games, joint best defence with Ulster and Leinster (Leinster with one game less).

Which is certainly a good thing given we're 4th from bottom in terms of tries scored!

About the only positive thing to come from the holiday season from Glasgow's perspective is that the results generally in the league were all over the place and no one is really making hay at the moment. Glasgow are not the only team with somewhat erratic form!

We are not out of it yet but we really do need to find some form from somewhere. There were times in the first half when I recognised that team but it had become a bit of a memory by the end of the game.

Glasgow looked very disjointed in tonight's game and were lacking in leadership.
Not the greatest of games to watch if you want flowing rugby but was a good physical forward battle. Glasgow were slightly better than last week but Edinburgh again had more power.

For Edinburgh the stand outs were Rory Sutherland who put in some big hits(one smashing hit on big t), scrummager very well and carried.
John Hardie put in another big performance, breakdown work was excellent, carried and supported well but it was his defence that really stood out. Strauss ran at him in first half and looked like he hit a brick wall and went no where.
Du Preez certainly won the battle of the bearded bok jocks. Carried strongly and was everywhere in defence, put in a great kick as well.
Matt scott looks back to his near best. Carried well and was good in defence, shutting down Glasgows attack with great line speed.
Cuthbert looked the better full back today and las week as well. Secure under high ball, defended well. Hogg on the other hand was very poor. Yet again poor in the tackle falling off burleigh for edinburghs try. Also wasted a 3 on 2 with about ten to go, instead of drawing the man and passing went for it himself and got smashed.
Was impressed by Petersen for Glasgow, looks a decent signing.
Ali price looked energetic at 9 despite having to play off pretty poor ball. Bennett was again very good and looked like Glasgows only real threat.
Hugh Blake was impressive when he came on, high work rate and a very clever player. Should get more game time for Glasgow as is a better 7 than fusaro.

On another note why does Ryan Wilson continue to get game time, the man is a waste of space on a rugby pitch.

So what have we learnt from the last 2 weeks from a Scotland point of view?

Front row

Our reserve options still aren't great, although Sutherland looks to be the real deal and is in with a chance of getting 6N time. The only SQ tighthead that played other than Nel way Fagerson, who did ok.

2nd row

Jonny Gray is awesome. Alex Toolis could be just as good as Ben Toolis and, like the Grays, look like they could compliment each other as a unit.

Back row

Whoever signed Hardie deserves a big pay rise. All the other SQ options were very much underwhelming. Du Preez is an international player in the making. Wilson is not, and probably never has been.

Scrum half

Hidalgo-Clyne did ok - not on fire like he was last year but doing good enough. His goal kicking is still strong. Ali Price looked busy and is one for the future and probably deserves some game time over Hart.

Stand off

The best 10 on show was a Kiwi, and he's not even a 10 apparently! Should we stop saying that now? Russell was a bit meh, and Weir did his usual headless chicken impression. We didn't see any of Tonks.

Centre

The real Matt Scott looks like he's returning. Mark Bennett is awesome and was Glasgow's best player over 2 legs. With Duncan Taylor playing well we could do with Dunbar returning and we'll have healthy options in the centre.

Back 3

Tom Brown had the stand out performance in the series but injured himself in doing so. All the other wingers didn't do overly much. Hogg's form is a concern - he needs a break to get his head in order.


So the gist is that we need some players coming into form!

Would people want Cornell du Preez to play for Scotland if he became SQ btw? (For sake of argument, if he could play in the 6N)

On the one hand, he's the best number 8 between Edinburgh and Glasgow. Also, Denton isn't getting much gametime.

On the other hand, you're then looking at maybe Strauss, Hardie, Du Preez, with Nel as well.

Nematode wrote:Would people want Cornell du Preez to play for Scotland if he became SQ btw? (For sake of argument, if he could play in the 6N)

On the one hand, he's the best number 8 between Edinburgh and Glasgow. Also, Denton isn't getting much gametime.

On the other hand, you're then looking at maybe Strauss, Hardie, Du Preez, with Nel as well.

We have kind of done this argument to death in the past. If he is qualified and he is good enough, then he will get picked and that scenario is very likely.

It does us no harm at all to have depth and options in any position. Du Preez is a very good player and will see international rugby as a very real and close possibility now. Hopefully he will commit a few more years to Edinburgh as well.

Du Preez, Strauss and Hardie all qualifying to play for Scotland would not really allow for much "strength in depth", such would be the drop in quality if one of them miss out. They are fit, they play. It's that simple really.

When is Burleigh sq?
One player I do feel for is Alan dell, good pedigree but now clearly 3rd choice lose head. Alex toolis will also go back to 4th choice when gilchrist returns
Edinburgh are looking solid, but with the league still open I still fancy the weej to make the finals

Ok, so the quality of rugby was fairly sh!te last night but the banter between fans was great.


Weedgies shout We. Are. Warriors. We are Warriors!


Embra fans reply to the same tune with We. Are. Playing at home. We are playing at home!


Banter made a dire game a much more enjoyable experience.


Also, did anyone else notice the 40 odd phase defensive spell by Edinburgh that only conceded one penalty. Hats off to the Embra defence for that!
Can't help but be impressed by Edinburgh these days and Glasgow need to buck up their ideas. Bring back big Shade Munro. Their forwards haven't been the same since he left to go coach the ladies (who, to be honest, desperately need a quality coach).

CraigS1874 wrote:When is Burleigh sq?
One player I do feel for is Alan dell, good pedigree but now clearly 3rd choice lose head. Alex toolis will also go back to 4th choice when gilchrist returns
Edinburgh are looking solid, but with the league still open I still fancy the weej to make the finals

Burleigh is a year and a half to go. I still don't think he is a FH option for Scotland though, it is just not his position and he would get exposed at international level. He could play in the centre though.

With a bit of sensible rotation, Solly could keep 3 LHs and 4 SRs quite busy and happy. That is still his weakness as a coach, though it has to be said that he was subbing a bit more than he usually does in the derby games.

You are right that Edinburgh should be in the mix this year, they are still not going to get decimated by call ups in the international window and if they play with the same spirit that they showed against Glasgow against other teams, they will be a force. They have got to remember to keep turning up though. The 1872 cup must not become the pinnacle of their season.

Edinburgh will probably be able to field:

Dell, Cochrane, Andress, Bresler, Toolis, Coman, Ritchie, Manu, Kennedy, Tonks, Fife, Burleigh, Allen, Hoyland, Cuthbert

...give or take a few, which is a very strong team.

A Simply Mesmeric Try wrote:Ok, so the quality of rugby was fairly sh!te last night but the banter between fans was great.


Weedgies shout We. Are. Warriors. We are Warriors!


Embra fans reply to the same tune with We. Are. Playing at home. We are playing at home!


Banter made a dire game a much more enjoyable experience.

Chapeau, my eastern Luvvies chapeau.

Someone has put 45 minutes worth of highlights on YouTube - it's not the best of quality and I won't post it on here because it probably infringes copywrite, but it shows all of Edinburgh's heroics at the end.

Phil Burleigh with the winning try and responsible for holding the Glasgow player up to form the maul at the very end that led to the final whistle. Great individual performance from him!

Weir made Burleigh look very good indeed. Even as an Edinburgh fan I had my head in my hands when he punted that penalty touchfinder over the dead ball line!

funnyExiledScot wrote:Weir made Burleigh look very good indeed. Even as an Edinburgh fan I had my head in my hands when he punted that penalty touchfinder over the dead ball line!

The back up FH position for Scotland is suddenly becoming an issue again.

Weir has made absolutely no case in his Glasgow starts recently. Horne looks like he may not play again this season (it looked like a bad one). I watched Worcester v Quins today to see how Heathcote was coming along, he got knocked out as well and Worcester actually played a lot better without him once he went off. Jacko does not seem to be getting much of a whirl at Wasps now either, despite Goperth playing terribly in the last couple of games.

Of those left standing, I would probably go with Jacko. He at least gives a bit of versatility but all in all it is less than inspiring. Need to wrap FR (who is not exactly setting the heather on fire atm either) in cotton wool.