Looking at the Welsh Squad for this years Six Nations

First topic message reminder :

the Wales team to face England


1. Jenkins
2. Hibbard
3. Lee
4. Jones
5. Ball
6. Lydiate
7. Warburton
8. Faletau
9. Webb
10. Biggar
11. North
12. Roberts
13. JD2
14. Cuthbert
15. Halfpenny

16. Baldwin
17. James
18. Jarvis
19. Charteris
20. Tipuric
21. Phillips
22. Preistland
23. Williams


WALES 2015 SIX NATIONS SQUAD:


Forwards:
Looseheads
Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), Paul James (Bath), Rob Evans (Scarlets)

Tightheads
Aaron Jarvis (Ospreys), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Scott Andrews (Cardiff Blues)

Hookers
Richard Hibbard (Gloucester), Kristian Dacey (Cardiff Blues), Scott Baldwin (Ospreys)

Locks
Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Jake Ball (Scarlets), Bradley Davies (Wasps), Luke Charteris (Racing Metro)

Blindsides
Dan Lydiate (Ospreys), James King (Ospreys)

Opensides
Sam Warburton (Cardiff Blues, capt), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys)

Number 8
Taulupe Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons)


Backs:

Scrumhalves
Mike Phillips (Racing Metro), Rhys Webb (Ospreys), Gareth Davies (Scarlets),

Fly halves
Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Rhys Priestland (Scarlets), Gareth Anscombe (Cardiff Blues)

Centres
Cory Allen (Cardiff Blues), Jamie Roberts (Racing Metro), Jonathan Davies (Clermont Auvergne), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Tyler Morgan (Newport Gwent Dragons)

Wings
Hallam Amos (Newport Gwent Dragons), Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues), George North (Northampton Saints),

Fullbacks
Liam Williams (Scarlets), Leigh Halfpenny (Toulon)

Planet rugby predict us winning the six nations in their preview

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3820_9686615,00.html

Gwlad wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Gwlad wrote:With regards to Anscombe, he is being given his crack of the whip as per the tacit agreement he made with Wales when he left Super 15 and emigrated to Wales to play rugby before an RWC….read between the lines here, bar announcing he was Shane Howarth's love child he was ALWAYS going to get his shot now. He has slotted well into the blues and although he may not have set the house on fire yet he is functioning well and easily takes up the spot Hook leaves behind. Priestland is insurance for the Biggar, simple as that. If Biggar gets crocked in steps Priestalnd but the long term view is clearly for Anscombe to take that role

Which backs my case up of he was always going to get selected.

That's a matter of opinion, not a fact... It backs nothing up.

If Anscombe had turned out to be a Sam Norton-Knoght type signing then there is no chance he would have been considered, but he hasn't, he has been good, very good at times. Not the perfect player yet but he is young and looks exciting in attack.

Anscombe isn't Burgess, he didn't get dropped on earth last autumn and had to learn the game, most of his 'selection' was done in S15….do you think the guy would come here without some commitments? Would you? I know I wouldn't. IMO he was likely told, stay fit, be consistent at 10 and learn the NH game and you will get a pop at the 6 Nations.

That's your opinion, not a fact.

He is third choice at best at the moment, he has a lot to play for and a lot to gain from it. He will be a usefull addition to the squad.

maestegmafia wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Gwlad wrote:With regards to Anscombe, he is being given his crack of the whip as per the tacit agreement he made with Wales when he left Super 15 and emigrated to Wales to play rugby before an RWC….read between the lines here, bar announcing he was Shane Howarth's love child he was ALWAYS going to get his shot now. He has slotted well into the blues and although he may not have set the house on fire yet he is functioning well and easily takes up the spot Hook leaves behind. Priestland is insurance for the Biggar, simple as that. If Biggar gets crocked in steps Priestalnd but the long term view is clearly for Anscombe to take that role

Which backs my case up of he was always going to get selected.

That's a matter of opinion, not a fact... It backs nothing up.

If Anscombe had turned out to be a Sam Norton-Knoght type signing then there is no chance he would have been considered, but he hasn't, he has been good, very good at times. Not the perfect player yet but he is young and looks exciting in attack.

Anscombe isn't Burgess, he didn't get dropped on earth last autumn and had to learn the game, most of his 'selection' was done in S15….do you think the guy would come here without some commitments? Would you? I know I wouldn't. IMO he was likely told, stay fit, be consistent at 10 and learn the NH game and you will get a pop at the 6 Nations.

That's your opinion, not a fact.

He is third choice at best at the moment, he has a lot to play for and a lot to gain from it. He will be a usefull addition to the squad.

At best? why who else is in the squad at 10?

Gwlad wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Gwlad wrote:With regards to Anscombe, he is being given his crack of the whip as per the tacit agreement he made with Wales when he left Super 15 and emigrated to Wales to play rugby before an RWC….read between the lines here, bar announcing he was Shane Howarth's love child he was ALWAYS going to get his shot now. He has slotted well into the blues and although he may not have set the house on fire yet he is functioning well and easily takes up the spot Hook leaves behind. Priestland is insurance for the Biggar, simple as that. If Biggar gets crocked in steps Priestalnd but the long term view is clearly for Anscombe to take that role

Which backs my case up of he was always going to get selected.

That's a matter of opinion, not a fact... It backs nothing up.

If Anscombe had turned out to be a Sam Norton-Knoght type signing then there is no chance he would have been considered, but he hasn't, he has been good, very good at times. Not the perfect player yet but he is young and looks exciting in attack.

Anscombe isn't Burgess, he didn't get dropped on earth last autumn and had to learn the game, most of his 'selection' was done in S15….do you think the guy would come here without some commitments? Would you? I know I wouldn't. IMO he was likely told, stay fit, be consistent at 10 and learn the NH game and you will get a pop at the 6 Nations.

That's your opinion, not a fact.

He is third choice at best at the moment, he has a lot to play for and a lot to gain from it. He will be a usefull addition to the squad.

At best? why who else is in the squad at 10?

Anscombe is in the squad and will be capped this 6N for two reasons nether of which are anything to do with form or ability displayed to date:

1. He was clearly promised that if he uped sticks and came to wales he would get capped

2. Once he is capped then on one else can pick him.

As to who is better;


1. Biggar was very good in the Autumn, has stuttered recently but probably more due to the Ospreys drop in form than his own.
2. Priestland seems to have recovered from the injuries that have plauged him the last two seasons and is now playing very well for the Scarlets.
3. Owen Williams has been excellent for Leicester and I suspect, if he had committed to returning to Wales, would be in the squad.

I would put all three ahead of Anscombe at present who looks a very silky runner and passer with a good boot, but is also very prone to mistakes which suggests his long term future may be at 15 (reminds me of a young Hook).

Surely Priestland has done more than enough in the last two years to show he simply doesn't have the temperament for high-pressure rugby? He seems like a nice guy and I certainly don’t like the “abuse” he copped, but the fact is that he often utterly implodes when placed under any real pressure. The ability to not only absorb pressure – but thrive off it – is basically a prerequisite for being a successful international rugby player. I know he’s been playing well for the Scarlets recently, but Anscombe has also looked good for the Blues and by virtue of having not yet having messed up as Preistland has numerous times, he deserves a shot. Plus – now is the time to test him. We know what Priestland can do – and what he can’t. We also know Biggar is number one. Anscome should – and I believe will – get run outs in the 6N in the last 20mins (if we’re winning!) – and maybe start against Italy.

And from what I've seen, I'd say Anscombe is better than Owen Williams - who seems to share Preistland's issues of mental frailty in pressure situations from what I can see.

Marcus you're spot on, I've been saying that about Priestland for a little while on here. Don't think I've seen enough of Owen Williams to agree on that yet though.

Seagul what on earth have you been watching for the past 2 seasons. While I think the jury is still out on Anscombe, placing Priestland as 2nd best is really deluded and/or insane.

What I would like yo discuss is the pack, now a lot is being made of the English forwards, but are their first choice pack really any better than ours ? Did our pack really struggle in the AI ? For me our first choice that we are putting out against England for the first game have nothing to fear, Wales hopefully will have the following pack:-

Gethin Jenkins
Richard Hibbard
Samson Lee

AWJ
Jake Ball

Dan Lidyate
Sam Warburton
Talupe Faletau

That pack has more than enough to do a job against England, ok we will struggle if Samson Lee gets injured, but that front and second row are more than a match for England, and the back row for me are much better as a unit than their English counterparts, I am saying this quiet, but I am feeling quite confident for next Friday.

Robin McBride on Samson Lee: "“After the South Africa game in the autumn, he asked the team manager if he could go ferreting the day after and be excused (from the team social).”

That's a proper prop!

LordDowlais wrote:What I would like yo discuss is the pack, now a lot is being made of the English forwards, but are their first choice pack really any better than ours ? Did our pack really struggle in the AI ? For me our first choice that we are putting out against England for the first game have nothing to fear, Wales hopefully will have the following pack:-

Gethin Jenkins
Richard Hibbard
Samson Lee

AWJ
Jake Ball

Dan Lidyate
Sam Warburton
Talupe Faletau

That pack has more than enough to do a job against England, ok we will struggle if Samson Lee gets injured, but that front and second row are more than a match for England, and the back row for me are much better as a unit than their English counterparts, I am saying this quiet, but I am feeling quite confident for next Friday.

LD,

I think that pack pretty much picks itself though I would be happy if James started. The bench will be interesting I guess as to who he goes with as the back up T/Head prop Jarvis or Andrews. I imagine James and Baldwin will get the reserve prop n hooker spots with Charteris and Tipuric filling the other spots.

Bedford, where would you see the Englush pack having the beating of us ? Are the English that far ahead of us or am I just looking at it through Welsh tinted glasses ? Hartley is no better than Hibbard in my opinion and with the injuries they have to their second row I do not think there is much in it, also we have far better balance in the back row.

LordDowlais wrote:What I would like yo discuss is the pack, now a lot is being made of the English forwards, but are their first choice pack really any better than ours ? Did our pack really struggle in the AI ? For me our first choice that we are putting out against England for the first game have nothing to fear, Wales hopefully will have the following pack:-

Gethin Jenkins
Richard Hibbard
Samson Lee

AWJ
Jake Ball

Dan Lidyate
Sam Warburton
Talupe Faletau

That pack has more than enough to do a job against England, ok we will struggle if Samson Lee gets injured, but that front and second row are more than a match for England, and the back row for me are much better as a unit than their English counterparts, I am saying this quiet, but I am feeling quite confident for next Friday.

I don't either, we probably have the most settled and balanced pack in the tournament. The experience there as well with leaders like Alyn Wyn, Gethin Jenkins strong ball carriers in Jake, Alyn, Toby and Hibbard; our pack has been very strong for the past years with rarely many packs getting the upper hand on us physically.
But the main problem we have (which isn't a problem yet) is if Samson gets injured and that's well noted by everyone.

It will be interesting to see how Faletau goes. He's perhaps the weakest link in the above proposed pack in terms of form, yet ironically he's the only one with no direct replacement cover in the squad!

You think Faltetau has been that poor Griff?

I know he hasn't hit the headlines recently but I didn't think he was playing that out of form...!

Just not as good as usual Maes. He's never been devastating from the back of the scrum like a Scott Quinell, but lately I feel he's struggling to make the yards that he usually does. Certainly for the Dragons he hasn't been great. A number of players are able to up their game for wales so hopefully he will too.

How was he in the autumn? Can't remember him being great. We don't have many 8 options in wales after him it would seem - a few years back we had debates about Faletau, Ryan Jones, Delve, even Popham! Who are the natural successors or bench/injury cover? I would have tried Navidi just to have in the squad at least as back up.

I was surprised at their reluctance to select Navidi. Apparently they don't think his club form translates to international rugby.

maestegmafia wrote:I was surprised at their reluctance to select Navidi. Apparently they don't think his club form translates to international rugby.

Yet they pick King which surprised me when I heard that quote.

LordDowlais wrote:Bedford, where would you see the Englush pack having the beating of us ? Are the English that far ahead of us or am I just looking at it through Welsh tinted glasses ? Hartley is no better than Hibbard in my opinion and with the injuries they have to their second row I do not think there is much in it, also we have far better balance in the back row.

LD,

Player for player I don't think they do have the beating of us but our lineout always worries me and we do struggle against he rolling maul which they are good at.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31068120

Blessing in disguise. He was average and rusty in the autumn, like he has been for Clermont. Yet we all know Gatland would have picked him. Now it's the rightful centre's starting, Roberts and Williams.

Saint,

He's not been ruled out yet and we know if he trains before Friday at all then he is likely to start.

I hope not. But if he is, I reckon North will be starting, but he should be on the bench at the very least.

The pack is a strong one. Our backs are good, too. Our problem again is no strength in depth. This means

1. We are easier to work out than sides who can put out a variety of combinations
2. Just a couple of injuries can have a huge impact - at 3 and 8, for instance, we are really thin

Actually, I'm not sure if this is true. Losing to England is so painful that I have to spend at least a month preparing my defences.

maestegmafia wrote:I was surprised at their reluctance to select Navidi. Apparently they don't think his club form translates to international rugby.

Where would he be selected to play? If at 8, then I would understand if Gats feels he doesn't yet have as much experience there as he might like. Not a form pick to leave him out, however.

rumpelstiltskindoh wrote:The pack is a strong one. Our backs are good, too. Our problem again is no strength in depth. This means

1. We are easier to work out than sides who can put out a variety of combinations
2. Just a couple of injuries can have a huge impact - at 3 and 8, for instance, we are really thin

Actually, I'm not sure if this is true. Losing to England is so painful that I have to spend at least a month preparing my defences.

rump,

At 3 and 8 I agree but other than that is our bench really that weak. Lets say its likely to be James, Baldwin, Jarvis, Charteris, Tipuric, Phillips, Priestland and Sc Williams (depending on injury).

6 of them are established internationals.

Well, 3 and 8 are pretty crucial. Apart from that, I would say our bench is OK-ish. I'm happy with Sc Wms, Charteris, and Tips. The rest - meh - they would represent a distinct weakening from first choice, either because they aren't on top form, or they haven't convinced over a longer time period (and I say that as a long-time sceptic about Biggar, and fan of James)

George Carlin wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:I was surprised at their reluctance to select Navidi. Apparently they don't think his club form translates to international rugby.

Where would he be selected to play? If at 8, then I would understand if Gats feels he doesn't yet have as much experience there as he might like. Not a form pick to leave him out, however.

I'd say he covers the entire backrow, he can do a job at 6,7 or 8 which makes him a good bench option at least

You're right, IronMike. Navidi has played a couple of stormers at 8 this year and we need to develop strength in this position

By not selecting him though we have no cover at 8, at least if he had been selected we would have had someone who is playing there and playing very well at the moment.

Lets say our starting back row is Lydiate Faletau and Warburton with a bench of 3 front rowers then Charteris and Tipuric, who would cover 8 if Faletau got injured.

Warburton I would guess?

^yes, i suppose so. And Tips comes on as openside.

Watching the Saracens and Blue Bulls game and Gil has got a rare start. He's been awesome though after completely dismantling the Bulls scrum which has been the only positive factor in the Saracens game this evening.
He needs regular game time at club level, we need him back in Wales. Best scrummager they have yet he is third choice; its not fair as he should be pushing for international places.

Has King played at 8 at all?

Gwlad wrote:Has King played at 8 at all?

Not sure but I doubt it would have been a great deal if he has.

Jhamer25 wrote:Watching the Saracens and Blue Bulls game and Gil has got a rare start. He's been awesome though after completely dismantling the Bulls scrum which has been the only positive factor in the Saracens game this evening.
He needs regular game time at club level, we need him back in Wales. Best scrummager they have yet he is third choice; its not fair as he should be pushing for international places.

with all respect that is your assumption Mako V and Richard Barrington are not only outstanding LHs they offer a lot more around the park to. I don't blame you for wanting Gill back in Wales though, solid squad player

The Blues could do with an experienced loosehead to be honest

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

Jhamer25 wrote:Watching the Saracens and Blue Bulls game and Gil has got a rare start. He's been awesome though after completely dismantling the Bulls scrum which has been the only positive factor in the Saracens game this evening.
He needs regular game time at club level, we need him back in Wales. Best scrummager they have yet he is third choice; its not fair as he should be pushing for international places.

with all respect that is your assumption Mako V and Richard Barrington are not only outstanding LHs they offer a lot more around the park to. I don't blame you for wanting Gill back in Wales though, solid squad player

Yes i see that In Barrington, i mean he came on and made a few good carries straight off. But i'm old fashioned when it comes to props and what i want in a prop is a solid defender around the rucks and fringes and a dominant scrummager which is why Gill is more suited to me barrington and even Vunipolo. I just want him to be getting more game time. He would do wonders for a team like dragons now by giving the youngsters coming through a dominant platform to play off.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Has King played at 8 at all?

Not sure but I doubt it would have been a great deal if he has.  

Can't remember him doing so. Kind of shoots that statement "King is good cover at 4, 5, 6, 7, 8." out of the water.

The Saint wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Has King played at 8 at all?

Not sure but I doubt it would have been a great deal if he has.  

Can't remember him doing so. Kind of shoots that statement "King is good cover at 4, 5, 6, 7, 8." out of the water.

Who has said that? Let me just add he has never started a game at 8 for the Ospreys

wayne wrote:

The Saint wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Has King played at 8 at all?

Not sure but I doubt it would have been a great deal if he has.  

Can't remember him doing so. Kind of shoots that statement "King is good cover at 4, 5, 6, 7, 8." out of the water.

Who has said that? Let me just add he has never started a game at 8 for the Ospreys

It's been banded around a few times on here in the past by multiple posters.

The Saint wrote:

wayne wrote:

The Saint wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Has King played at 8 at all?

Not sure but I doubt it would have been a great deal if he has.  

Can't remember him doing so. Kind of shoots that statement "King is good cover at 4, 5, 6, 7, 8." out of the water.

Who has said that? Let me just add he has never started a game at 8 for the Ospreys

It's been banded around a few times on here in the past by multiple posters.

Oh, so nobody important then.

wayne wrote:

The Saint wrote:

wayne wrote:

The Saint wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Has King played at 8 at all?

Not sure but I doubt it would have been a great deal if he has.  

Can't remember him doing so. Kind of shoots that statement "King is good cover at 4, 5, 6, 7, 8." out of the water.

Who has said that? Let me just add he has never started a game at 8 for the Ospreys

It's been banded around a few times on here in the past by multiple posters.

Oh, so nobody important then.

You and maesteg aren't important, so you were right about that . Whenever somebody questioned the calls for, and then inclusion in the Wales squad, what I have said here was the standard retort.

There is due to be an "exclusive announcement" from the WRU at 11am

Interesting, I wonder what it is?

Adam Jones out of retirement?

Central contract? (Seems a strange time to announce, and they have never bothered with build up before)

Wales A team?

Nope, just a team announcement 48 hours early....which seems really strange.

Unsurprising

1. Jenkins
2. Hibbard
3. Lee
4. Jones
5. Ball
6. Lydiate
7. Warburton
8. Faletau
9. Webb
10. Biggar
11. North
12. Roberts
13. JD2
14. Cuthbert
15. Halfpenny

16. Baldwin
17. James
18. Jarvis
19. Charteris
20. Tipuric
21. Phillips
22. Preistland
23. Williams

Absolutely nothing learnt from the autumn series (apart from we know we have a weak bench when we get a few injuries). Too many off form players littered in the 23. The form picks playing in Wales can feel hard done by; I wouldn't mind at all to see us lose so maybe lessons can finally be learnt.

I do not think that side will lose on Friday night Saint. Perhaps Gatland is going to try different things with the same players.

The Saint wrote:Absolutely nothing learnt from the autumn series (apart from we know we have a weak bench when we get a few injuries). Too many off form players littered in the 23. The form picks playing in Wales can feel hard done by; I wouldn't mind at all to see us lose so maybe lessons can finally be learnt.

Yes, Faletau, Cuthbert and JD2 in particular are lucky to keep their places.

Will England be able to out muscle them?

Very, very difficult to tell. With Ball and Lee back in the tight 5, that prospect just got a lot more difficult for England.

I don't think we will be outmuscled, but unless our fitness levels have increased they could outlast us with that bench.

LD is Gats magical RWC plan worth sacrificing this tournament? I don't think so.

The Saint wrote:I don't think we will be outmuscled, but unless our fitness levels have increased they could outlast us with that bench.

LD is Gats magical RWC plan worth sacrificing this tournament? I don't think so.

But he did try and tweak a few things in the AI, they definately threw the ball about a lot more against Australia, and they looked a lot fitter by the time they played South Africa, perhaps, or I am hoping, that he wants to try out new systems with his tried and trusted players, who is to say he will not change things for the next game.

I understood from his interview just after the squad announcement a few weeks ago that the focus was on the RWC and not the six nations.

So I don't think that changes in each game are unlikely, he also said it would be hard not to select the team that best South Africa.

Looks like he made changes he thought necessary.

Good settled team there. Hopefully thry will start well with a good performance.

The Saint wrote:Absolutely nothing learnt from the autumn series (apart from we know we have a weak bench when we get a few injuries). Too many off form players littered in the 23. The form picks playing in Wales can feel hard done by; I wouldn't mind at all to see us lose so maybe lessons can finally be learnt.

Saint, I know you get bad press on here from some, but that comment is an absolute howler... How can any fan want their team to LOOSE the first game of a tournament... There can be arguments like this if we where 4 games in and already thrown in the towel, but to say this before the tournament kicks off, is beyond comprehension in my opinion.

Gatland has picked, what he believes is his strongest side. So far, for Wales and the Lions, he hasn't gone far wrong. So how about backing him, the coaching team, the playing team.

I've a feeling it could be Slam time this year... recent Wales Grand Slam years... 2005, 2008, 20012, 2015.. 3 Years; 4 Years; 3 Years there's a pattern there