Looking at the Welsh Squad for this years Six Nations

First topic message reminder :

the Wales team to face England


1. Jenkins
2. Hibbard
3. Lee
4. Jones
5. Ball
6. Lydiate
7. Warburton
8. Faletau
9. Webb
10. Biggar
11. North
12. Roberts
13. JD2
14. Cuthbert
15. Halfpenny

16. Baldwin
17. James
18. Jarvis
19. Charteris
20. Tipuric
21. Phillips
22. Preistland
23. Williams


WALES 2015 SIX NATIONS SQUAD:


Forwards:
Looseheads
Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), Paul James (Bath), Rob Evans (Scarlets)

Tightheads
Aaron Jarvis (Ospreys), Samson Lee (Scarlets), Scott Andrews (Cardiff Blues)

Hookers
Richard Hibbard (Gloucester), Kristian Dacey (Cardiff Blues), Scott Baldwin (Ospreys)

Locks
Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Jake Ball (Scarlets), Bradley Davies (Wasps), Luke Charteris (Racing Metro)

Blindsides
Dan Lydiate (Ospreys), James King (Ospreys)

Opensides
Sam Warburton (Cardiff Blues, capt), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys)

Number 8
Taulupe Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons)


Backs:

Scrumhalves
Mike Phillips (Racing Metro), Rhys Webb (Ospreys), Gareth Davies (Scarlets),

Fly halves
Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Rhys Priestland (Scarlets), Gareth Anscombe (Cardiff Blues)

Centres
Cory Allen (Cardiff Blues), Jamie Roberts (Racing Metro), Jonathan Davies (Clermont Auvergne), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Tyler Morgan (Newport Gwent Dragons)

Wings
Hallam Amos (Newport Gwent Dragons), Alex Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues), George North (Northampton Saints),

Fullbacks
Liam Williams (Scarlets), Leigh Halfpenny (Toulon)

bedfordwelsh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:I can't see Coombs being involved as he seems to have dropped back a bit now i would imagine the 4 second rowers being AWJ, Ball, Charteris and Davies

I thought he looked pretty useful for the dragons when I watched him this season.

He has but he seems to have dropped down Gatlands pecking order I feel, he wasn't involved in the AIs so just think it will be he main four.

Wasn't he injured prior to the AIs?

He was fit when the original squad was named but got injured shortly after squad was announced. I know its a bit of a Regional debate between fans but I see more him in than King so if it had to be one I would go with Coombs.

really hope Owen Williams is in the Test squad for the 6N. You can't ignore a guy who has gone to Leicester, made the 10 shirt his own and is consistently one of the best 10's in the league, whilst also keeping out Burns who seemed to be next in line for the England FH position.

Anscombe has done ok since moving to the Blues. If he can keep up his form and bring a little more consistency to his game I'd like him involved, with Biggar the starting 10.

SH's for me have to be G.Davies/Webb and then whoever a form SH is at the time, probably go R.Williams for youth and him being involved in squads before.

Amos is another i hope we go with.

Do you reckon Phillips won't make the squad??

I think he will infortunately. Gatland loves him, plus he always does seem to pull a rabbit out of the hat when his place depends on it in the big games. Moving forwards however, we need to ditch him. Now there are genuinely better SH's available who provide quick ball and can also find the try line. Time to move on and give our backs better and quicker service.

He has been falling gradually from favour over the last twelve months. A reflection of his form at racing metro. He hasn't really put in a great performance for a while. Last summer second test vs SA was the last I can recall

Right or wrong I think there are still a few players that regardless of form Gatland will pick and Phillips is one of them.

St George might well find himself out in the cold unless he bucks his ideas up, we will be seeing either Liam Williams or Hallam Amos on the wing I would have though, read the below link, it makes interesting reading:-

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/bye-george-warren-gatland-weighing-8326411

LordDowlais wrote:St George might well find himself out in the cold unless he bucks his ideas up, we will be seeing either Liam Williams or Hallam Amos on the wing I would have though, read the below link, it makes interesting reading:-

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/bye-george-warren-gatland-weighing-8326411

They are right though. I think he'll still be selected in the squad, if we get an injury crisis he'll come back in - but as it stands he isn't good enough to start. Amos and Liam Williams look good enough, perhaps Prydie too and Walker if he can not get injured. Cuthbert is another one, his regional form continues to be rubbish.

The Saint wrote:Cuthbert is another one, his regional form continues to be rubbish.

But at least he comes off his wing looking for work, it's only his defence that is rubbish.

LordDowlais wrote:

The Saint wrote:Cuthbert is another one, his regional form continues to be rubbish.

But at least he comes off his wing looking for work, it's only his defence that is rubbish.

But still, he hasn't been effective. He isn't getting over the try line often either, that was mostly what he had going for him.

The Saint wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

The Saint wrote:Cuthbert is another one, his regional form continues to be rubbish.

But at least he comes off his wing looking for work, it's only his defence that is rubbish.

But still, he hasn't been effective. He isn't getting over the try line often either, that was mostly what he had going for him.

He is still better than ST George in my opinion.

LordDowlais wrote:

The Saint wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

The Saint wrote:Cuthbert is another one, his regional form continues to be rubbish.

But at least he comes off his wing looking for work, it's only his defence that is rubbish.

But still, he hasn't been effective. He isn't getting over the try line often either, that was mostly what he had going for him.

He is still better than ST George in my opinion.

It's subjective. But what I was saying, like I've been saying for months, is that both should be dropped from the starting team. It's just whenever I mention Cuthbert getting dropped people start saying St George this, St George that to me... Wish peeps on here would pay attention.

maestegmafia wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Gwlad wrote:Anscombe offers much more potential than Priestland who hd his shot and was finally lost his favored status to Biggar this autumn - deservedly so IMO. If RP is off to Bath i think that is almost an admission of defeat for him in his national career and I think its important to remember Anscombe is new to the Welsh game and should be given a shot as understudy to DB. Shame Owen Williams is going to stay in Leicester as I would have liked to see him figure, without him there is little option but to use Anscombe/Priestland and for me it will always be Anscombe.

There is also Patchell to come back.. That might make it interesting

Has Patchell capped yet or really been in the running? I just think Anscombe has a composure that means he can cope best with RWC so close, as i really dont think Priestland has anything left to offer….so fed up of him losing possession because he gets himself isolated and has no pace. The Anscombe hype may or may not increase his chances of selection and i just hope Gats give him a run out v Scotland or Italy.

I think Priestland showed against the Ospreys exactly what he has to offer, the try he made for Liam williams was a superb bit of play. Something Biggar doesn't do.

I accept that but i think IT also raises the point that RP has not produced anything of note at international level since RWC 2011. Biggar is now very solid not only as a 10 but as a leader - his vocal input v SA was exactly what Wales need and something i have never seen - nor could ever imagine - coming from Preistland

We are what 8 months out from the WC and unless there is injury or an absolute melt down in terms of performances I reckon we could all pick roughly 20 odd of the WC squad now with the other spaces then up for grabs.

The Saint wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

The Saint wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

The Saint wrote:Cuthbert is another one, his regional form continues to be rubbish.

But at least he comes off his wing looking for work, it's only his defence that is rubbish.

But still, he hasn't been effective. He isn't getting over the try line often either, that was mostly what he had going for him.

He is still better than ST George in my opinion.

It's subjective. But what I was saying, like I've been saying for months, is that both should be dropped from the starting team. It's just whenever I mention Cuthbert getting dropped people start saying St George this, St George that to me... Wish peeps on here would pay attention.

I agree if you are saying Cuthbert should be dropped for Sanjay. I would even consider Half on the wing as i think LW is awesome coming into the line like Byrne at his best. I would not drop north though his game still needs work, because he is a game changer.
I know Cuthbert has scored loads of tries for Wales and even created his own, i just think he lacks in other areas and we have better options. But its a great problem to have as i think our back 3 is so strong in depth. For me the RWC team really picks itself at the moment and though i think old guards like gethin and AWJ and JD2 need to step up and are under pressure, again, we have some real depth in the squad from 1-15.

Gethin
Hibbard
Lee
Ball
AWJ
Lydiate
Warbs
Taulupe
Webb
Biggar
North
Roberts
Davies
Half/Williams
Williams/Half

Bench I am not so sure on

I would like us to use the 6 Nations games v Italy and Scotland to cement a real 2nd tier and having beaten SA with no bench and key players unavailable we don't need to worry about the 6 Nations this year, that pressure is off, our record is strong and we have nothing to prove there. That said it will be the most competitive 6 nations for years and even Scots will push us hard.

Gwlad,

I would still pick James over Jenkins and would be tempted to leave Cuthbert but drop North or even drop both and go with Amos but also those mentioned will be involved in the squad unless as I said injury or complete melt down in form.

T/Head is going to be an interesting one, Lee has (I think) now established himself as No1 but who is next.

Rh Jones has been used as bench option but how long is he out inured?
A Jones has the experience and has been playing well of late, I would certainly have him in the squad.
Andrews/Mitchell, neither have ever impressed me and again how long is Mitchell out for?
Do we go back to using Jenkins/James as emergency T/Head options?

bedfordwelsh wrote:Gwlad,

I would still pick James over Jenkins and would be tempted to leave Cuthbert but drop North or even drop both and go with Amos but also those mentioned will be involved in the squad unless as I said injury or complete melt down in form.

I really think for RWC, which due to our group is effectively knock out from Game 1, we want leaders.

PJ is a fine player but no comparison with GJ other than at scrum. GJ was immense v SA and, having won a 6 Nations nearly 10 years ago now, offers a level of experience and skill all over the park that PJ just can't compete with. I think having PJ and AJ on the bench is the way forward. That said i think AJ is barely in contention now, though he is captaining his side he just offers so little really other than at the set piece. He saunters from break down to breakdown, leans on, arrives late and is just off the pace. There are accidental a moments of brilliance and i know he is a fine back up with experience which should see him good for the RWC squad, but Lee is the future and another youngster needs to come on.

Having two players like James and Jenkins is great position to be in and it's only personnel preference that splits opinion I think. Jenkins these days seems to grow in to tournaments after a few games so he needs to hit the ground running and get in some serious game time for the Blues.

Lee is definately the future and our No1 but who is coming through?

Again other than personnel preference I think most of us could pick the starting XV for the WC now.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Having two players like James and Jenkins is great position to be in and it's only personnel preference that splits opinion I think.  Jenkins these days seems to grow in to tournaments after a few games so he needs to hit the ground running and get in some serious game time for the Blues.

Lee is definately the future and our No1 but who is coming through?  

Again other than personnel preference I think most of us could pick the starting XV for the WC now.

what is yours (all 15 this time )

As it stands now I would go for:

James
Hibbard
Lee
AWJ
Ball
Lydiate
Faletau
Warburton

Webb
Biggar

Halfpenny
JD
Sc Williams
Amos
Li Williams

But I know that back line up won't start

I would go pretty similar, Jenkins over Paul James for me and I'd have Scott Williams in his club position of inside centre with JD2 outside him.

I think George North will come good and warrant a spot at the expense of Amos. Amos is a good player but isn't creating enough for top level yet. Despite North and Cuthberts current form, I think both have the game we need for the RWC, I'm keen to see them force their claims though, not rest on selector oak laurels.

Watched Halfpenny at fullback for Toulon then Williams for Scarlets a few weeks back and Williams is definitely ahead in my view. I think that view is shared pretty unanimously...

Good to have a lot of settled players, good to have some players challenging. Also good to have established players overlooked for younger form players, forcing the older established lads to up their game...! Adam Jones for one is a player we need to be at the top of his game...

For me Sc Williams has deserved to start for sometime now and Li Williams' first thought is to attack whilst Halfpennys is to kick.

I agree that North and/or Cuthbert will start but again I hope its because they have found form not passed reputation.

One issue is that Garland's whole approach still largely relies on Roberts route 1 carry and SW doesn't offer that in the same way…..it would require a new style to incorporate SW who i accept is the more skilled player and i just don't think Doc is doing badly enough to warrant him being dropped. I don't think SW's howler v SA will have done him any favors either…talk about big game pressure and he farked up.

Actually very encouraging to see that the likes of north Cuthbert and even Half are coming under real pressure. North always gets a spot for me because he is a specimen, but no one is safe it seems.

bedfordwelsh wrote:For me Sc Williams has deserved to start for sometime now and Li Williams' first thought is to attack whilst Halfpennys is to kick.

I agree that North and/or Cuthbert will start but again I hope its because they have found form not passed reputation.

Completely agree.

The little leak on Norths form to the press is very timely.. Gives him a few weekends to prove his worth... Unfortunately one of those weekends is at the expenses of the Ospreys that he singlehandedly demolished last October...!

We know he has it in him, let's hope it starts happening when he next plays for Wales.

Gwlad wrote:One issue is that Garland's whole approach still largely relies on Roberts route 1 carry and SW doesn't offer that in the same way…..it would require a new style to incorporate SW who i accept is the more skilled player and i just don't think Doc is doing badly enough to warrant him being dropped. I don't think SW's howler v SA will have done him any favors either…talk about big game pressure and he farked up.

Actually very encouraging to see that the likes of north Cuthbert and even Half are coming under real pressure. North always gets a spot for me because he is a specimen, but no one is safe it seems.

We didn't play like that when roberts wasn't in the side so why would we do it now...? We played smart rugby when Henson was the inside centre and we could do it now.

That said I agree that Roberts has done little wrong this year, he's been in great form. But Scott Williams is looking very classy.

Gwlad,

Why North over Cuthbert though, for me there nothing in it. Defence for both is their weak point, I think Alex goes looking for work more and his strike rate is currently(I think) better than Georges.

Agree about Roberts and Gatlands plans I would just like to see us try something different

Ahh henson, i am still misty eyed about him on the ball…..you could go and get another beer or kick the dog at least twice and by the time you came back he still had it and had just looked so damned comfortable. What an awful waste.

I hope Gats tries these combos v Italy and Scots…there is huge difference to our game when Roberts is on form and his straight running is very effective. SW will have to offer something very special to oust him now i think. When we don't cross the mainline in midfield we tend to get very lateral very quickly. I really enjoyed how quickly we tried to get wide v SA though….with Sanjay coming into the line we could be devastating if we can reproduce that.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Gwlad,

Why North over Cuthbert though, for me there nothing in it.  Defence for both is their weak point, I think Alex goes looking for work more and his strike rate is currently(I think) better than Georges.  

Agree about Roberts and Gatlands plans I would just like to see us try something different

I honestly can't say, i agree both have poor defensive skills just seems North has some real star quality about him. I actually think Cuthbert is probably a better finisher so maybe you are right. 12/13 North outside Scott Williams might be interesting.

That said I thought our attacking play vs Australia was great unfortunately we lost three of our starting back line to injury in the middle of the game and our attack dynamic was lost...

We also scored some nice tries in the first quarter vs Fiji

What confuses me is that we hear about how Halfpenny and RP in the past have played to orders so if that's the case why doesn't Liam Williams or are there different orders when he is at XV?

If Williams was constantly ignoring team orders and tactics I am sure he would be dropped so why is Halfpennys first instinct to kick, we know he can play the running game but he doesn't seem to do it that often.

Its interesting that these days it seems most of the talk evolves around our backs, previously it was what we would do with our forwards but that pack seems pretty settled and strong at the moment.

We do need now to bring on another t/head but other than that it seems pretty solid

Line outs still concern me... The regions stats at line out are improving but Wales seem to be left behind

I think that issue could be solved with Owens over Hibbard but then we lose a bit in the physicality stakes.

bedfordwelsh wrote:I think that issue could be solved with Owens over Hibbard but then we lose a bit in the physicality stakes.

I didn't think Owens will be fit in time??? Could be wrong.

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:I think that issue could be solved with Owens over Hibbard but then we lose a bit in the physicality stakes.

I didn't think Owens will be fit in time??? Could be wrong.

I don't think Owens is the way forward as back up to Hibbard who is definitely the RWC choice…I would shave Baldwin back as understudy after his pert v SA

Not sure on Owens' fitness but if not then Baldwin is next line but I think Dee has been playing really well of late. I do like Emyr Phillips but he himself is out injured as well now.

Gwlad wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:I think that issue could be solved with Owens over Hibbard but then we lose a bit in the physicality stakes.

I didn't think Owens will be fit in time??? Could be wrong.

I don't think Owens is the way forward as back up to Hibbard who is definitely the RWC choice…I would shave Baldwin back as understudy after his pert v SA

Ken will be back for the European games. Why do you not think he is the way forward as back up to Hibbard? Any specific reasoning?

bedfordwelsh wrote:Not sure on Owens' fitness but if not then Baldwin is next line but I think Dee has been playing really well of late.  I do like Emyr Phillips but he himself is out injured as well now.

Emyr has become a bit like the hooker version of Tavis Knoyle, all his bench warming and tackle bag holding during the AIs serious hit his form, and before he got injured there were calls for Myhill to be replacing him in the Scarlets side.

SS,

Any injury news on him, Owens or Rh Jones. I admit my view of Phillips is limited but him Evans and Lee look a really good combination.

Emyr, Kirby and Rhodri are all looking to be out for a long time. I believe Rhodri dislocated his shoulder (bad new for a prop), Kirby has ripped a pec muscle, and Emyr has also dislocated a shoulder. Also I think Rhodri and Emyr went to see the specialist yesterday to find out where they go next, timings etc. But I would not expect to see anyone of those again until Easter, and maybe even later.

As for Ken, he was expected to be coming back at a similar time to Cawdor originally. But originally he was going to go under the knife, and then they decided to just let him heal without operating which caused a slightly longer delay. But word is he will be back for the Toulon game at hime, if not the Tigers game away.

Yeah shoulders are not best injuries for props. Will be interesting now to see who Gatland calls on as back up to Lee, Rh Jones seemed to be his preferred option despite him being a loosie. Does he go back to ol reliable himself or use James/Jenkins as emergency cover or chuck a youngster in.

I think ol reliable will be called upon.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:I think that issue could be solved with Owens over Hibbard but then we lose a bit in the physicality stakes.

I didn't think Owens will be fit in time??? Could be wrong.

I don't think Owens is the way forward as back up to Hibbard who is definitely the RWC choice…I would shave Baldwin back as understudy after his pert v SA

Ken will be back for the European games.  Why do you not think he is the way forward as back up to Hibbard?  Any specific reasoning?

His injury - prolapsed disc - in a hooker especially is a serious concern for the future; i hope that he recovers fully and can put it behind him. I have always thought Ken was a good bench option but never regarded him as a first choice hooker, for the RWC perhaps he is the best option as back up as he knows the set up but now he has had this injury i think it would be wiser to look to a younger player. Perhaps that is harsh but it's just a gut feeling.

Im really looking forward to seeing the team announcement because i'm expecting to see a few new faces. Dare I say it but I think we're starting to develop a bit of depth.

Hooker
Richard Hibbard, Ken Owens, Kristian Dacey
= Hibbard should be first choice cause Ken has been injured and Dacey deserves his place in the team on form.

Prop
Gethin Jenkins, Rob Evans, Paul James, Samson Lee, Adam Jones, Craig Mitchell (if fit)
= No issues with loosehead even with Bevington and Nicky Smith injured and Gill out of favour with sarries. Tighthead is an issue but as long as Samson and Adam keep fit we will be sorted. However i am pi$$ed off that Nicky Thomas isn't getting any game time with the Ospreys and I wouldn't rule him out even though he hasn't played any regional rugby; he has as much potential as Samson Lee, the best tighthead prop in world rugby at his age grade for the past 2 years. Might be worth a shot as cover.

Locks
Alyn Wyn Jones, Jake Ball, Bradley Davies, Luke Charteris
= Locks pick itself, great depth hear but Jake and Alyn Wyn are quite ahead atm

Flankers
Dan Lydiate, Sam Warburton, Justin Tipuric, Lewis Evans
= Again picks itself with the first three but it's a fourth option that is up for grabs. I think Lewis Evans is a great and underestimated player. Shingler is a safe option and James Davies looks really promising

Number 8
Toby Falateu, Dan Baker
=Easy Enough

Scrum Half
Rhys Webb, Gareth Davies, Richie Rees
= Mike days are done. Rhys Webb is first choice and when fit Gareth and Richie are the best players in their representative teams.

Fly Half
Dan Biggar, Owen Williams, Gareth Anscombe
= Rhys is a great club player but folds on international stage, Hook has never been in favour. With dan an established 10 now its time to bring in some new faces.

Centre
Jamies Roberts, Jonathan Davies, Scott Williams, Tyler Morgan
= Tyler Morgan hasn't played much but Cory Allen has hardly set the Blues on fire. He is on a central contract so i wouldn't be surprised if he is in the team

Wing
Alex Cuthbert, George North, Hallam Amos
= Cuthbert has been terrible for the blues, I don't know what the pundits are on about; his defense for an international has been laughable but what else do we have. North has failed to impress of late which is really disappointing. Our best options for win atm is both full back; one area were we are struggling for.

Fullback
Liam Williams, Leigh Halfpenny, Dan Evans
= Dan Evans has been such a great players for the Ospreys and deserves his shot. I would be tempted to have Dan fullback with both Leigh and Liam wing untill Cuthbert and North find form.

35 man team even though it's usually about 33,34

Pack i agree on except I think Dacey is questionable and prefer Baldwin.

Also, isn't Nick Cudd pushing Tipuric now.

Fully behind 10 choices and i think we are looking good there for the first time in ages. RP is done IMO.

Again, centers look flush though for me Allen edges Morgan….that said Allen has looked ponderous in internationals and the central contract for morgan is a clear statement that Gatland likes young lads.

Regarding the back 3, Williams is by far the outstanding player at the moment but with a cadre of 6 we are well placed. I really like the idea of LW, GN and Half. Agree North is off form but i am a fan and feel that at 22 he will only improve.

Have long been a fan of Evans but can't see him getting looked at now, I would like to see Navidi and Cudd involved.

As for the hookers I think Baldwin is part of the wider squad now and will be involved but Elliott Dee has been on good form this year as well.

Anscombe will have to do a hell of a lot more to convince me he deserves to be rushed into the squad and Prydie has been preferred in the past so can't see D Evans getting a call.

Likewise Cory Allen over Morgan though if possible why not have both.

Lee now a doubt with cervical disc problem…they won't risk him so we are back to AJ I think for the time being. Other TH options?

Gwlad wrote:Lee now a doubt with cervical disc problem…they won't risk him so we are back to AJ I think for the time being. Other TH options?

As i said i my earlier statement, if Nicky thomas had been getting regular game time like Samson Lee did with the Scarlets early on then we would already see big improvements from him. I'm just gutted Craig Mitchell is injury prone as well. Samson Lee is out for Glasgow but should be back for Leicester; i wouldn't like to risk him though cause a disk problem for a tighthead prop very good. If not though I agree it's back to Adam Jones.

Rhodri also out as well so AJ will at least be on the bench even if they start Lee which i very much doubt.

Bedford…what more does Anscombe have to do to show he is worth a shot on he bench. After a few games at blues he has made 10 his own, he is much better than Priestland,  can at least take Hook's slot as he provides utility cover, he kicks goals (sometimes) and unlike the other guy who came North but went wants to go to Twickenham, he probably understands the line out.