The "All-in" Junior world cup thread

[Taylorman]

First topic message reminder :

With 6 games on today didnt feel like jumping around the various u20 posts for each side...

On now is Scotland vs SA- Scots ahead after 16 mins 5-0, now SA 7-5 after 18.

Wales are leading Fiji 14-5 after scoring a try after 7 seconds! An average kick of to the left was left to bounce by the Fijians and Wales came through at full pace catching the ball after the bounce and scored in the corner. Other than the ball bouncing I don't think you can get a quicker try.

Aus thrashed Argie 36-17.

[blackcanelion]

Stats for points this JWC

1 NZ 196 (28 tries)
2 Eng 181 (22 tries)
3 Aus 176 (24)
4 SA  167 (22)

Unfortunately we played 10 man rugby. In our case we didn't include the tight 5.

You flat track bullies you

Yeh. I know. I think the rational is that the players are tall enough and will put on an additional 5-10 kg, and develop power once they enter the professional environment. There's a few issues post school here. I think if they squad the kids at the end of school and play a pre tournament tour we'll improve pretty quickly. There's a bit of a drop off for many kids at about the 18/19 year mark when they go back to their clubs. Tuimavave's from my club and plays amateur club rugby in Wellington. I think the old under 19 and under 21 system was better suited for us. It put the kids into a structure straight after school and by the time they hit 21 they were in the IPC structure.

I think we're struggling in the battle for players with other sports. Rugby used to be the main game in town. The NRL's taking a lot of talented union kids for their under 20 NYC competition. It's now in it's 7th year and the players get paid more than union. Here's some clips of a couple of 18 year old players who've gone from wellington union last year to one league club alone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfeJ7FxolaQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2xmz_PqHfk
The storm holds a training camp in Wellington fore 100 players from the lower north Island and offers the top contracts. They're tying in players to contract as young as 15. I think Nelson went to one of the camps signed up. he was contracted on potential as he didn't have a league background. A look through just the Melbourne Holden cup side and there are NZ, Australia, Fijian and probably other Island union kids in there. It's a hard transition to league many wont make it. but many of these kids were good union players.

The last issue is we need to put the team together earlier and play as a team against foreign opposition. Along with Australia we'd be the least prepared in this aspect. Up north you have successive years of 6 nations age group tournaments. South Africa now plays more as school boys and in prep for the tournament. We have a trial, go into camp and play a couple of development teams. I think it leaves us pretty underdone going into the tournament.

[WELL-PAST-IT]

Fantastic!

Back-to-back champions

Pity about the soccer though.

Yeah, I've no idea why they subbed Charlton in 1970 vs West Germany.

To keep him fresh for the next game. It worked, Franz B tore us to shreds when he stopped marking BC. Charlton had about a 4 month rest and was very fresh.

[Hood83]

Missed the game but delighted we won. Sounds like the usual disagreements re the ref which is a bit of a shame but I guess inevitable. Does anyone know if they'll have the full game up anywhere.

Also, how much did we use the rolling maul. I thought overall we played some good rugby in other games but perhaps focused on it a bit too much for my liking.

It was used by both sides, Hoody.

But England got points from one and pretty much closed the game out using it.

Actually, I thought the Saffers 'deserved' the win overall. I also thought that the ref played for only one side except that he forgot to change ends at half time. For them in the 1st and for us in the 2nd.

Cheers Portnoy. I suppose it's nice to get a win when you're under the pump. I thought they may be too physical for us beforehand.

[Hound of Harrow]

Cheers for posting those links bcl. There was some great breaks and offloads and the power of that young no. 8 is imressive. Reminds me of a young Dallaglio

Anyway, well done England this morning.

[profitius]

Decent effort from Ireland. The tank was empty after half time but they fought on.

NZ were very clinical but Irelands defence was porous once again.

Next year these teams will meet again. 7 of the starting side will be back for Ireland bit more luck with injuries the pack should be stronger. Ruddock really has to start rotating though if he has a shred of ambition.

[Biltong]

Boks lost this match at the breakdown, you don't win that many line outs only to be turned over and still win.

They went into this match not respecting the English breakdown abilities and got snorted.

Very disappointing

[Exiledinborders]

The shortlist for the IRB Junior Player of the Year was very strange.
No place for the NZ full back Mackenzie or England's Itoje. To me Mackenzie was by a long stretch the best player in the tournament and Itoje was also by a big margin better than any of the short listed players.

[Sgt_Pooly]

Agree Exile it was a very strange list.

2 wingers, yet wingers hardly win these things. Pollard won by default as the best performer in the most pivotal position, he was nowhere near the player of the year/tournement.

[Exiledinborders]

The shortlist for the IRB Junior Player of the Year was very strange.
No place for the NZ full back Mackenzie or England's Itoje. To me Mackenzie was by a long stretch the best player in the tournament and Itoje was also by a big margin better than any of the short listed players.  

I suppose I should have said who was on the shortlist.

The winner was South African captain Handre Pollard. The others were England Wing Nathan Earle England, Irish centre Garry Ringrose and New Zealand wing Tevita Li.

[Exiledinborders]

Agree Exile it was a very strange list.

2 wingers, yet wingers hardly win these things. Pollard won by default as the best performer in the most pivotal position, he was nowhere near the player of the year/tournement.

Pollard was probably the best ten but by no means the best player. From an England point of view Nathan Earl was very good but Danny Hobbs-Awoyemi and Maro Itoje were more consistently excellent and more influential in the eventual result.

[Sgt_Pooly]

Totally agree.

Pollard shaded the 10's but it wasn't a position that was particularly strong this year, he had a poor final.

Itoje was consistently excellent, as were Hill and Hobbs.

[profitius]

Agree about McKenzie, disagree about Itoje. I think he stands out looks wise so is noticed more than the other pack members. But he played well. Others in the England pack were very good too as was Tomkins.

[Sgt_Pooly]

Would anyone have picked Pollard? I found it a really strange decision.

[Pal Joey]

Yes, I thought he showed glimpses of future stardom. A very talented young player who showed that "something extra" which may or may not have been noticed by others on here. The judges got that one right, imo.

[Taylorman]

Well done England. Bet both Eng and the boks (Ive stripped the baby term off long ago) cant wait to see a couple more years on these guys. Hansen has already ordered more padding for our boys for the next few years.

[Taylorman]

Yes, I thought he showed glimpses of future stardom. A very talented young player who showed that "something extra" which may or may not have been noticed by others on here. The judges got that one right, imo.

Same. Good attitude as well, spoke well, likes he being this a while. Bok 10 for sure. Mind you I didnt see every match.

[Neutralee]

After watching tons of the world cup I'm amazed Pollard won player of the year, he was probably the most experienced 10 out there, but there were some very good 10's around, the welsh lad with curly hair, and the kiwi kid both showed huge talent!

The list seemed to be tailored to an important position selection, similarly to last year, the welsh lad who won was definitely not the best player.

There were a few players very unlucky not to make the list, the English winger, Irish flanker, aussies had some raw backs, and Samoan prop (sorry don't know their names).

I have to saynough, the tournament was a cracker, tight games all round, some monster players, and some superb technical ones, I also love to watch these games because the tactical elements are always a bit ropy, and lend to much more excitement.

Thumbs up all round for me

[Hood83]

Is the full game version of the final available anywhere? last year I'm sure they had full games, coverage this year post games seems a bit disappointing.

[DaveM]

Well done to England. It's a real achievement to retain the title.

There are some more good players coming through for next year as well.

[thebandwagonsociety]

Decent effort from Ireland. The tank was empty after half time but they fought on.

NZ were very clinical but Irelands defence was porous once again.

Next year these teams will meet again. 7 of the starting side will be back for Ireland bit more luck with injuries the pack should be stronger. Ruddock really has to start rotating though if he has a shred of ambition.

Is Ruddock staying or is his stint in this role over?

[LeinsterFan4life]

There are rumours of Ruddock leaving. I would like him to stay but if he leaves Id like to see Dempsey given the job. He's been great with Leinster A.

[The Great Aukster]

Dempsey would be a good choice as the Ireland u20s are all from Leinster anyway!

[thebandwagonsociety]

That's too soon for Dempsey surely. He has done well with the Leinster A but that side wasn't exactly doing badly before he came in. Would be interested in Girve minding the back line in the full team, maybe FOLEY/girve set up down the line.

Back on topic, any players from this competition that people think might bolt into rwc squads next year? Hard for a 20-21 year old to do it but it can't be impossible.

[profitius]

Decent effort from Ireland. The tank was empty after half time but they fought on.

NZ were very clinical but Irelands defence was porous once again.

Next year these teams will meet again. 7 of the starting side will be back for Ireland bit more luck with injuries the pack should be stronger. Ruddock really has to start rotating though if he has a shred of ambition.

Is Ruddock staying or is his stint in this role over?

Didn't hear he is. He has been good with Ireland and is a solid coach to have there.

[Neutralee]

Rid dock was a bit of a coup to get in the first place, and has now taken Ireland to a semi final, I'd hang onto him as long as I could if I were you guys.

[profitius]

Did the 6 nations' teams have a big advantage going into the JWC over other teams? Looking around various forums it seems thats a strong opinion among NZ and Oz fans.

My opinion on it is its certainly an advantage but I'm not sure how much of an advantage. It never stopped NZ trashing 6 nations teams in the past and England were only the first 6 nation team to win it last year.

Also the water logged bogs the 6 nations is played on and the time gap between that and the JWC isn't ideal for 6 nation sides. 6 nations champions France finished 6th in the JWC.

[SecretFly]

Rid dock was a bit of a coup to get in the first place, and has now taken Ireland to a semi final, I'd hang onto him as long as I could if I were you guys.

What coup would that be? When he can in first there was talk that his position was a wait and see on the future Senior Ireland job. There was talk that he was only in to actually wait for that role. So that might have been considered his coup had that transpired.
Unfortunately for him, that deck was taken by another captain; and if the rumours are true, I'd expect Ruddock probably now wants to move on to perhaps find another senior International spot - or perhaps even a European club.

[asoreleftshoulder]

Rid dock was a bit of a coup to get in the first place, and has now taken Ireland to a semi final, I'd hang onto him as long as I could if I were you guys.

What coup would that be?  When he can in first there was talk that his position was a wait and see on the future Senior Ireland job.  There was talk that he was only in to actually wait for that role.  So that might have been considered his coup had that transpired.
Unfortunately for him, that deck was taken by another captain; and if the rumours are true, I'd expect Ruddock probably now wants to move on to perhaps find another senior International spot - or perhaps even a European club.  

He means a coup,not a coup d'etat. A coup is an impressive victory or achievement that usually is difficult or unexpected.

A coup d'etat is a sudden attempt by a small group of people to take over the government usually through violence.

[SecretFly]

Rid dock was a bit of a coup to get in the first place, and has now taken Ireland to a semi final, I'd hang onto him as long as I could if I were you guys.

What coup would that be?  When he can in first there was talk that his position was a wait and see on the future Senior Ireland job.  There was talk that he was only in to actually wait for that role.  So that might have been considered his coup had that transpired.
Unfortunately for him, that deck was taken by another captain; and if the rumours are true, I'd expect Ruddock probably now wants to move on to perhaps find another senior International spot - or perhaps even a European club.  

He means a coup,not a coup d'etat. A coup is an impressive victory or achievement that usually is difficult or unexpected.

A coup d'etat is a sudden attempt by a small group of people to take over the government usually through violence.

??

[Pal Joey]

Rid dock was a bit of a coup to get in the first place, and has now taken Ireland to a semi final, I'd hang onto him as long as I could if I were you guys.

What coup would that be?  When he can in first there was talk that his position was a wait and see on the future Senior Ireland job.  There was talk that he was only in to actually wait for that role.  So that might have been considered his coup had that transpired.
Unfortunately for him, that deck was taken by another captain; and if the rumours are true, I'd expect Ruddock probably now wants to move on to perhaps find another senior International spot - or perhaps even a European club.  

He means a coup,not a coup d'etat. A coup is an impressive victory or achievement that usually is difficult or unexpected.

A coup d'etat is a sudden attempt by a small group of people to take over the government usually through violence.

??

Either way it was a glorious achievement. You'd think the Fijians could come up with something similar.

[SecretFly]

Ruddock for a Roving UN Ambassadorial Dictator role?

You gotta a population that needs quelling - just ring Ruddock.

Is that what you all mean?

[Pal Joey]

Are you speaking to me or neutral or yourself again?  

My God we complicate things and sometimes read too much into situations, don't we?  

[SecretFly]

Nevermind me, Linebreaker.  I have a habit of throwing a spanner in the works just to see what might come out the other end.  But this time it was asoreleftshoulder who did it and sent me spinning with the confusion of it all.

I think we should all restart the clock back at DaveM's "Well done England" post.

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