Richie Gray, best lock in the world?

First topic message reminder :

You'll have to allow me to indulge in this one for a moment, after being involved in a cracking debate on another thread I got looking up some stats on Richie Gray. Now us Scots don't have a lot to be optimistic about at the moment, after another dismal 6N we do have some glimmers of light.

The biggest glimmer, litteraly has to be Richie Gray.

6ft 9 and 19st 12 he is a monster of a man. In the 6N thusfar he has these impressive statistics :

Meters Carried = 89
Clean breaks = 2
Defenders Beaten = 3
Tackles made = 15
Tackles Missed = 0
Lineouts Won = 11
Opposition Linouts spoiled / won = 4


All well and good, however take into account the other fantastic players in the 6N thusfar. Gray has made more clean breaks and carried the ball further than Jamie Roberts or George North and beaten more defenders than Roberts too.

His defensive record is phenomenal too winning or spoiling 4 opposition lineouts and makeing 15 tackles and missing none.

So, is he the best lock in the world? It has to be said even without my navy blue tinted glasses on I'm struggling to think of a better lock playing at the moment. Happy to hear from other poster as to their suggestions for the accolade of best lock in the world.

Oh and he's only 22.

UlstermaninGlasgow wrote:I think on the Sale thing, isn't Richie Vernon one of Richie Gray's best mates? And he probably clued Sale up on the Glasgow bid and how to appeal to Richie... Also being 3.5/4 hrs from Glasgow/Edinburgh doesn't hurt!

London is 3.5/ 4 hours from Glasgow :-) I really think the distance should be less of an issue, as a train is fast and a plane even faster :-)

I have been saying for a while I would love to see a Gray/Charteris partnership for the Lions in Australia. Charteris however will have his work cut out trying to play his way back into the team before he is considered. Also this tour should definitely see more than two Scotland players!

In NZ we have Lemon and Paeroa or L & P. Its slogan is World Famous in NZ.

Richie Gray is world famous in Scotland. Just be happy that he's in your team. He looks impressive. You might argue Sergio Parisse is the best number 8 in the world. But it doesn't really do him or Italy any favours to say that because you often get statements like if only he played for a decent team. Don't make the mistake with Gray. Just be thankful you have that new talent like him and Denton in the team.

Kiakaha, good point, my friend, better to wait until we have tasted the fruits of glory - Jeebus, I could be dead by then!

PS What is L&P?

L&P is amazing!! Drank it all the time when I was in new Zealand. It's a drink that tastes like sherbert lemons! (non alcoholic....)

I had a friend that was convinced L & P was simply a mix of coke and lemonade and you just had to get the right percentage to achieve Lemon and Paeroa. It assuredly has nothing to do with that because all he offered up was weak tasting coke or sweet tasting lemonade.

I reckon you´ve got a good mix in the forwards. What you still need sorting out is your right mix in the backs. But what is encouraging is the latter is always easier to fix when you have the former operating well and getting good ball. You need to have a backline like Australia to operate on sketchy ball.

Riskysports wrote:

UlstermaninGlasgow wrote:I think on the Sale thing, isn't Richie Vernon one of Richie Gray's best mates? And he probably clued Sale up on the Glasgow bid and how to appeal to Richie... Also being 3.5/4 hrs from Glasgow/Edinburgh doesn't hurt!

London is 3.5/ 4 hours from Glasgow :-) I really think the distance should be less of an issue, as a train is fast and a plane even faster :-)

But have you seen how little legroom you get on Easyjet, Risky?
Think of the big chap sitting with his knees in his mouth.

Absolutely spot on feckless r. Wtf he chose sale is a bit of a mystery. Warrior fans heard he did not want to go too far from Glasgow. Apparently Leinster and a clutch of French teams were waving their worthless euros around.

Absolutely spot on feckless r. Wtf he chose sale is a bit of a mystery. Warrior fans heard he did not want to go too far from Glasgow. Apparently Leinster and a clutch of French teams were waving their worthless euros around.

Gone off the radar a bit now.

Eh?

Glas a du wrote:Gone off the radar a bit now.

Are you joking? He put in strong performances throughout the six nations and on the summer tour he showed a part of his game which wasn't always apparent before he hit rucks more as well as his tackles and rampaging runs.

Meters Carried = 89
Clean breaks = 2
Defenders Beaten = 3
Tackles made = 15
Tackles Missed = 0
Lineouts Won = 11
Opposition Linouts spoiled / won = 4

You first need to do the core working. Win the lineout, push the scrum and hit the ruck. These statistics without know about that mean 0%.

Scotland scrum struggle and lineout too and there is issue at the breakdown to win the clean ball to the under used backline.

anotherworldofpain wrote:

Meters Carried = 89
Clean breaks = 2
Defenders Beaten = 3
Tackles made = 15
Tackles Missed = 0
Lineouts Won = 11
Opposition Linouts spoiled / won = 4

You first need to do the core working. Win the lineout, push the scrum and hit the ruck. These statistics without know about that mean 0%.

Scotland scrum struggle and lineout too and there is issue at the breakdown to win the clean ball to the under used backline.

In general our lineout is good apart from Ford's occasional hiccups and our work at the breakdown is nearly always very good although I'll admit in recent times our scrum has struggled.

Richie Gray is an extremely good lock lock, and in my view one of the top locks in the world. Were you picking a World XV at the moment, he'd certainly merit consideration. His workrate is huge, his scrummaging seems to be improving, he's a good lineout option and no-one can claim he doesn't hit rucks. He's a complete lock, and I can think of few better.

I'm really not one for hyperbole, and for overrating Scotland players, but he really is extremely good.

Scotland do have a few guys who look like they are/could be world class in the pack. Their forwards should be built on the foundations of Gray, Denton and Rennie, who are just outstanding players IMO. Just really fantastic all rounders. Scotland certainly have the potential to put together a world class pack.

He is not the best yet - but he may become so. He still appears unsure at time whether to hit rucks or stand off to receive the ball and doesn't allways get that right. Spends more time chasing the ball around that the very best do but he is still very young. Some question marks over his scrumming as well maybe.

He is also taller than 6 ft 9 a lot taller.

I think he has the potential to be the best but - with all due respect to Scotland - is he another Parisse - will he ever achieve his potential?

Not sure Parisse is a good example, he's pretty much been rated the best number 8 in every 6 Nations for the last 5 or so years, and is always considered for world XV selections.

If you mean by potential, international trophies, then I guess he falls short, but personally I'd say Parisse on an individual basis has been an outstanding player and consistent now for a long time.

TJ wrote:He is not the best yet - but he may become so. He still appears unsure at time whether to hit rucks or stand off to receive the ball and doesn't allways get that right. Spends more time chasing the ball around that the very best do but he is still very young. Some question marks over his scrumming as well maybe.

He is also taller than 6 ft 9 a lot taller.

He isn't a lot taller.. only an inch taller. Apparently he is 6 foot 10.

He's probably 6ft 9 if you cut his hair.

You are probably right. His hair is crazy.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

TJ wrote:He is not the best yet - but he may become so. He still appears unsure at time whether to hit rucks or stand off to receive the ball and doesn't allways get that right. Spends more time chasing the ball around that the very best do but he is still very young. Some question marks over his scrumming as well maybe.

He is also taller than 6 ft 9 a lot taller.

He isn't a lot taller.. only an inch taller. Apparently he is 6 foot 10.

Evening Rory
Altho the stats say 6 10 if you saw him you would have to judge him to be more like 6 11, I am 6 6 and he is a fair bit taller than me, wife took a pic of me shaking his hand and I am looking up at him

To answer the poster poster who compared him to Parisse ??............... totally different positions, however I would say yes he has the potential to be as influential as Sergio is for Argentina

Evening! I will take your word for it mate. See, I would compare him to Devin Toner who is also 6 foot 11 but on the screen he looks a lot taller than Gray. Charteris who is 6 foot 9 also looks taller on the screen to me than Gray. They do say though that if you are skinny and lanky you will look taller than you really are, and if you are well built (Gray is just a huge figure) then you don't look as tall. That might explain it!

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Evening! I will take your word for it mate. See, I would compare him to Devin Toner who is also 6 foot 11 but on the screen he looks a lot taller than Gray. Charteris who is 6 foot 9 also looks taller on the screen to me than Gray. They do say though that if you are skinny and lanky you will look taller than you really are, and if you are well built (Gray is just a huge figure) then you don't look as tall. That might explain it!

I kinda agree with you Charteris does look close to him.

One thing though he is making great strides in his overall game, and with Rennie, Denton and hopefully McInally we will have a cracking rear guard in the scrum, line out and in the loose

I don't know if he's living up to his early promise.

Look out for Richie's younger brother Jonny Gray at Glasgow this forthcoming season.
Only 6' 6'', but he's only 19. Plenty of growing time yet.

Glas a du wrote:I don't know if he's living up to his early promise.

So you keep saying (fishing), Glas! Anything else you would care to add?

Let's also not forget he's still only 22..

Nice hair.

Glas a du wrote:Nice hair.

Remind you of one of your own flock?

Ooh touchy!

Hi is significantly taller than Al Kelloch who is listed at 6 ft 8
for some reason Grays official stats show him as smaller and lighter than he really is - not updated for a few years is my guess

He says: “The last time I was properly measured I was 6ft 8in — but that was when I was 17.

“I’m sure I must have grown a couple of inches by then so I could be 6ft 10in. But when you’re this tall an inch here or there doesn’t really matter.”

Glas a du wrote:Ooh touchy!

Why do you 'touch' your sheep?

Look, I know this in nothing compared to Ulster fans protecting Paddy Wallace, but come on now, relax a little

Glas a du wrote:Look, I know this in nothing compared to Ulster fans protecting Paddy Wallace, but come on now, relax a little

Is that what you say to your sheep?!

What's to 'relax' about? Anyone hot under the collar? Not as far as I can see.

What I do find interesteing behind the jovial banter and smiley faces , deep down Glas I don't think you do rate him as one of the best in the world. Which is fair enough but my question would be why?

A lot of Welsh posters are throwing names like Lydiate & North around as "world class" players, (not yourself specifically Glas) but seem to be reluctant to sing the praises of players from other nations.

I genuinly do think after the 6N and this summer tour Richie Gray has risen to become one of (if not) the best in the world.

Lock isn't a position that's bursting at the seems with talent and I think Gray has been instrumental recently for Scotland and has IMO not played poorly yet for Scotland.

Glas a du wrote:Gone off the radar a bit now.

That makes comments like the one above either a WUM or innacurate. Which is it Glas? Do you genuinley think he isn't all that good?

The jist I gather from a lot of other posters is that they would welcome a player like Richie Gray into their team with open arms.

Do you think he would be good enough to be Selected for Wales, Or any other Nation, or the Lions? If not who else do you think is good enough?

Radge - please stop with trying to generate substantiated and reasonable discussion.

You should know by now that this only happens when all hyperbole, partisanship and cycloptic wummery has been completely exhausted.

Incidentally, Paddy Wallace does seem to be protected a great deal by the Celtic mafia on these boards. Not entirely sure why.

Feckless

Agreed that Gray's Sale move is a strange one. He wont get Heinekin cup next season and with Cipriani signed i doubt they will finish top 6 next season so he wont get Europe for the year after! IMO he would have been better off at Glasgow, playing in Europe and getting appropriate rest periods when he needs it. Instead he will be slugging it out in attrtional forward play and getrting no rest around the International window. He is likely to have harmed rather than helped his push for the Lions.

Yes he will. Sale are in the HEC. Sale are building a decent squad and get stronger as the year went on. Diamond is keen to use the younger players and they've developed a good amount of experience. I'm a bit concerned that Redpath has come in as I've never really rated him as a head coach or DoR or whatever he is.

George Carlin wrote:Incidentally, Paddy Wallace does seem to be protected a great deal by the Celtic mafia on these boards. Not entirely sure why.

Agreed. A couple of years ago I suggested Ireland look closely at James Downey at 12, and was subject to heavy criticism for daring to suggest that Paddy Wallace wasn't the heir to D'Arcy's jersey. I said at the time that I didn't think Wallace's defence was good enough, and that I didn't believe he'd cut it physically at the highest level. I still believe that to be the case. He's a talented ball player, but I just can't see him as an international 12. Sometimes a one dimensional battering ram is what's needed to make a backline tick, someone to do the basics, lead the defence and get the side going forward. Ireland have plenty talented ball players and runners, perhaps a perceived step backwards to a hard runner might just bring the best out of the others (a la Pat McCabe for Australia).

Anyway - I'll now don my hard hat for the inevitable "you don't know what you're talking about" from the Irish contingent....

Oh, and Richie Gray is better than POC....

funnyExiledScot wrote:
Anyway - I'll now don my hard hat for the inevitable "you don't know what you're talking about" from the Irish contingent....

Oh, and Richie Gray is better than POC....

They are good at that hence I don't comment on any of their epic 19 page discussions anymore.

I'm not quite as disappointed about Sale now - they are definitely a team on the up. Would rather that than another AP team that wasn't really going anywhere.

It was a gamble for Richie to go there, but hopefully it pays off.

Hmmm, I'm still not happy about the Sale move. Good move for someone like Fraser McKenzie, but I really do believe that most clubs would have scraped together for Richie Gray, and I can't believe Sale was the optimal choice.

I wish them and him well though, and if Danny Cipriani can play to his potential, and Rob Miller continue to impress, then Sale won't be too bad next year.

I'd still rather he'd gone somewhere bigger, just not quite as disappointed.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Glas a du wrote:Look, I know this in nothing compared to Ulster fans protecting Paddy Wallace, but come on now, relax a little

Is that what you say to your sheep?!

What's to 'relax' about? Anyone hot under the collar? Not as far as I can see.

You're protesting too much ASBO.

Radge, he is Lions standard, I don't doubt that. Whether he will play is a matter of selection priorities and tactics. I didn't understand and still don't his move to Sale. Leicester or Saracens yes, Quins maybe but Sale? He's hardly testing himself by moving there is he?

The best thing about him is that he allows you to pick a proper dog in the second row with him. If POC wasn't too old they'd make some pairing.

Glas a du wrote:

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Glas a du wrote:Look, I know this in nothing compared to Ulster fans protecting Paddy Wallace, but come on now, relax a little

Is that what you say to your sheep?!

What's to 'relax' about? Anyone hot under the collar? Not as far as I can see.

You're protesting too much ASBO.

Radge, he is Lions standard, I don't doubt that. Whether he will play is a matter of selection priorities and tactics. I didn't understand and still don't his move to Sale. Leicester or Saracens yes, Quins maybe but Sale? He's hardly testing himself by moving there is he?

The best thing about him is that he allows you to pick a proper dog in the second row with him. If POC wasn't too old they'd make some pairing.

Ditto. The move to Manchester Scottish seems baffling at the moment but who knows it might be a masterstroke. It might turn out to be a really good move for him. It's a youngish side with lots of hungry players out to prove a point.

They'll be no slouches next year, and I fully expect them to play some good rugby and turn some heads doing it.

Big Richie will be poached by a French club next year anyway after his stunning 6N and Man of the Tour Lions performances.

don't be sad, coz two out of three ain't bad...

I'd say moving to a 'weak' club is testing yourself more than moving to a 'strong' club. If you're in a weak club every aspect of your game has to be top because you're carrying the others. In a strong team you can hide behind the work of others. The issue with moving to Sale is purely down to not getting HEC rugby isn't it? He will be next year. We'll see about the year after.