Groves v froch II

First topic message reminder :

Was fortunate to meet tony bellew tonight I asked him what he thought about the fight and he said there was nothing wrong with the refs decision and that another 10 secs would have seen a ko. He hunted also that the second fight is pretty much signed for next June/ July as he's fighting on the undercard happy days

hogey wrote:

Izzi wrote:
Groves would get smacked silly in a rematch. And I would be prepared to put a decent wager on it as well.

I try to respect everyone's opinion mate, but the idea a slow on the slide fighter who will probably be 38 by the time of a rematch and coming off the worst brutal beating of his career will be better in a rematch than a 25-26 year old who boxed his ears off, took limited punishment and will be full of confidence well aware that he has the beating of Froch is laughable. That was a battering that could effect a young man left alone a bloke in his late 30's. Froch will never even be as good as he was for the Groves fight again and let be honest he was terrible enough that night.

IMO, people just assess one element and that is who is out boxing who... Froch is not a boxer, he is a warrior. He out fought Groves, which is how he got the stoppage... The stoppage was early, but people like to use that to pretend that Groves was not hurt and in trouble, which only one punch did to him prior to the 4 or 5 landed on the ropes...

you do not outbox someone and then forget about the last 4 or 5 rounds... they count!

And for the record even if you scored the fight like most fans, If Froch just knocked down Groves in rnd 9 and won the rest of the fight he could have got a draw.... a win with a second knock down which given how the fight was going was by no means out of the question.

That being said, I agree a rematch would favor Groves as Froch is due and may already be feeling father time, where Groves on his game. Which is why I think Froch should move on and have a couple easy fights and call it a day. Plenty of fights for Groves to prove him self again.

I will say though Froch may have been effected by that first KO for a few rounds, and in a second fight if Groves does not land it early that could have an effect on how tha fight goes.

I see Groves as one of those fighters with big strengths but also vulnerabilities.. so he will always be exciting to watch.

The problem about your post there Tunes is that Froch was not bossing the fight at any point was getting a battered in the 6th and outboxed in the 7th. The 8th was pretty even and could have been scored for either man. He had Groves hurt but both men were knackered and if Groves had been given the chance to weather that Froch attack he may and probably would have used his boxing to run away with all the remaining rounds.

"Froch is not a boxer, he is a warrior"

Is that you Carl? Dear me.

"Fans or on his payroll most definitely yes."

Go back to football you oik.

Most definitely? Give me strength. The rest of your Poopie doesn't even warrant a reply.

boobie.

Can we please watch the personal insults. While it may be Christmas, me, nor any of the other mods are in the mood to sit cleaning up threads.

Izzi - Given you have barely posted on this site and when you have it's usually been utter dross I'm not sure your in a position to be telling people where to go to....

Especially after claiming, without any hint of irony, that Groves would get 'smacked silly' in a rematch.

The use of most definitely was to highlight my certainty that those scorecards were as dodgy as you can get...just in case you take umbrage with that though let me just show I'm not the only one to use questionable grammar...

See Sturm v Barker fight thread:

Tonight's official fight thread

 

BallchinianMuffwig wrote:Barker sturm i'm not really sure- doubt it'll be the most exciting fight, and dont see Barker stopping him, he'll have to do what Macklin did and win rounds on workrate, but last the distance better if he's in for any chance of a decision


Actually think it'll be a half decent fight to be honest, am quite looking forwards to it to be honest. Not sure how much either have left in the tank to be honest and what with the fight being in zeGermanland, where blind chloroform sniffing rabbits score fights more accurately, isn't one I'll be putting any of my millions on.. That can go on a private jet to Bali for the wedding.

Won't be staying up for Paulie and Judah to bore to me to suicide either, that will most definitely be a complete stinker.

by Izzi
   on Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:45 pm
   
   Search in: Boxing
   Topic: Tonight's official fight thread
   Replies: 188
   Views: 3602

  

Now please get back under the rock you came from so I don't have to waste any more of my time showing you up! Pleb!

I love our swear filter. LOVE it.

I'm not quite sure what gives you the right Owen to claim to be showing anybody up.

Izzi wrote:"Fans or on his payroll most definitely yes."

Go back to football you oik.

Most definitely? Give me strength. The rest of your Poopie doesn't even warrant a reply.

boobie.

That gives me the right Hammersmith...the fact that the twerp quoted & then kicked off at me for using 'most definitely' when he has done the exact same thing in the past. I wasn't the one who brought the thread off topic to discuss the correct use of grammar...he was even though he has struggled in the past himself!

Frankly who cares, nobody is the voice of reason on here, it's all just opinion based, you would be better off just debating instead acting all high and mighty.

hogey wrote:The problem about your post there Tunes is that Froch was not bossing the fight at any point was getting a battered in the 6th and outboxed in the 7th. The 8th was pretty even and could have been scored for either man. He had Groves hurt but both men were knackered and if Groves had been given the chance to weather that Froch attack he may and probably would have used his boxing to run away with all the remaining rounds.

I disagree.
I think he started to boss the fight from the end of the 7th onward, even though he lost one of them he was starting walk Groves down... There are two battles in the ring, one is winning rounds, the other is being in a fight. I think from the 7th on wards Froch started to win the fight and take Groves into his territory, I think this is pretty clear to see.

And that is not the point anyway, Froch was not winning the obviously as he was behind on the score cards, that is not under dispute at all. The bottom line is he smacked him about in round 9, the business end of the fight... People think the fight was stopped early, well thats the Refs call, he thought Groves was done. I think Groves was still hanging in there but would have been stopped in a few more moments.... And I also think even if he had recovered he would have been hurt again as Froch is known for finishing fights strong, as he has in all his big fights.. including when he was schooled by Ward.

I also completely disagree when people say Froch was in bigger trouble in the fight, thats utter rubbish. Ok The knock down was a very close call, but it was seconds before the bell and Froch was indeed saved by the bell. But after that point he was never in the same trouble that Groves was in during rnd 9. And those who say he was IMO are being bias towards Groves. And having posted a link to the whole fight, am happy for people to point out where to me.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Frankly who cares, nobody is the voice of reason on here, it's all just opinion based, you would be better off just debating instead acting all high and mighty.

I usually would, if you look at my history on this board I very rarely resort to the bickering but given it's the 4th time people have resorted to name calling towards me in the past three days I've quite frankly had enough of biting my tongue and saying nothing. Would be understandable if I had said anything untoward in the first place...I haven't!

Lumbering_Jack wrote:"Froch is not a boxer, he is a warrior"

Is that you Carl? Dear me.

eeerrr, Froch does not think he can box ?

I would like to hear what interviews you have been listening to! lol

Christ he landed two god damn punches, he was not smacking him around.

You can't argue that Froch was more shaken in that first round than Groves appeared at any point during the fight Tunes. While Groves was hurt on occasion, his legs never turned to jelly like Frochs did in that first round.

I've noticed you say a few times they people are forgetting what Froch did in the ring that night, sadly his comments immediately afterwards and since that fight have left a lot of fans with a sour taste and that is what people remember.

Froch was knocked down and was on shaky legs no doubt, I think if there was 10 seconds more time in the round Froch would have been stopped... No argument there. But the Bell saved him and he had a relatively good round in rnd 2 where he jabbed and recovered.

But people are saying Froch was hurt worse all the way through the fight and this is what I dont see at all... outboxed? yes, taking big shots? yes, in trouble?, no.

Froch was buzzed consistently, when the right hand landed he was knocked on to his heels, even in the 8th round. Groves was buzzed, however had the ability to get his guard up and throw back, both signs of a fighter who is still able to defend himself and carry on.

I've just watched the stoppage in slow motion, Froch lands 2 clean shots, the rest are taken on the gloves or are cuffing punches, Foster starts shouting as Groves is being pulled by Frochs left hand on to a punch, part of my thinks it was going to be a telling off for pulling Groves on to a punch which is blatant and is on the side of the referee, however when Groves is then pushed towards Foster, pushed not punched or knocked, Foster makes a snap judgement to call it off. At no point did he look like he was going to jump in before that, shocking stoppage.

Froch would have a lot more credit had he come out and said Groves fought well, and the referee stopped it early. Had he then said if it had gone on another ten seconds I would have stopped him nobody would have cared and he wouldn't have been booed out of the arena that night. His comments about not giving Groves a rematch since that night go to show how much he wanted a cheer because he ensured Groves that a rematch would be needed.

Froch got battered in the 6th round, he was seriously hurt.

some of his punches where on the golves, as he throw about 10 ... about 5 of them landed , about 3 of them very hard punches, and thats not including the first right hook that had him desperately holding on, saying groves was just Buzzed is nonsense... He was very hurt and in big trouble, which is clear to see..

From was not seriously hurt in the 6th allthough he was getting buzzed in most of the rounds including the 6th, that's more nonsense, and this is the Groves bias I am referring too.

Happy xmas.

Tunes, you are talking nonsense. Your nut huggery of Froch knows no bounds

Happy Xmas!!!

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:Tunes, you are talking nonsense. Your nut huggery of Froch knows no bounds

Happy Xmas!!!

Just dusting away the Groves bias, so those who are may see it as you have said.... just because it was an early stoppage does not mean we are all free to talk nonsense about hos the fight was.

I think until someone can point to a part in the fight which supports some of the claims here then we can just see those comments as nonsense..

The video supports the claim, Froch got hit with at least 6 very hard and very clean shots, he wasn't even rolling them.

BoxingFan88 wrote:The video supports the claim, Froch got hit with at least 6 very hard and very clean shots, he wasn't even rolling them.

ok, so just point out what time in the vid so we can see?, as its not what you say happened its what we can all see happend

I have pointed out in the vid that Groves was clearly hurt and in trouble for at least 30 seconds before the fight was stopped, and yes a bit too early given how Groves was still giving everything he had to come through it.... I am aware Froch was hit with some good shots throughout the fight but apart from the first rnd knock down where he was saved by the bell he was never in any big trouble despite taking those big shots... and from the end of the 7th he was able to walk through Groves and his big shots... The only trouble Froch was in, was he was losing too many rounds!

We can argue the case but that's why I posted the video so we can pin point where things have happened, so its no longer an argument but an assessment....

Please I am begging someone! to point out where Froch was in as much trouble as Groves was in the ninth, bar the first round where he was saved by bell. if so underline it so we can compare it to the 30 seconds of Groves being hurt.

In the 6th round Froch gets whipped in an exchange with about 6 haymakers and retreats because he gets shook

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:In the 6th round Froch gets whipped in an exchange with about 6 haymakers and retreats because he gets shook

Really?? 6 haymackers, where abouts is that? in rnd 6 Defo need to see this!.... I look forward to you pointing that out to us so we can all see it, I am prepared to hold my hands up as and when you point it out.

Everyone saw it happen Tunes apart from you, Groves lands four shots in a row making Froch hold on for dear life. There is no point carrying this conversation as you choose to ignore videographic evidence.

Thanks HH. Glad to see some common sense on this thread

I'm so happy Froch has said that he is against the rematch and that Groves was DOWN and out. I don't remember Groves being down at all.

Groves was hit by about 2 shots and he wasn't at all "buzzed" or hurt. in the slightest. He was starting to lose momentum but thats all. Tunes, please re-teach your eyes how to see things because they're playing tricks on you.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Everyone saw it happen Tunes apart from you, Groves lands four shots in a row making Froch hold on for dear life. There is no point carrying this conversation as you choose to ignore videographic evidence.

Yet I the only one pointing to the actual video which shows us what happened, and not just making comments i want to be true.... All you got to do is watch the youtube vid, and tell us the time point of where Froch was meant to be so badly hurt, but no one does it because there is no point in the video they can refer to because he was never hurt as badly as Groves was.

And again, both commentators saw the same fight as me also.
Froch was never in as much trouble, that's not my opinion, that's fact...
For some reason many people are very Bias towards Groves.

JabMachineMK2 wrote:Groves was hit by about 2 shots and he wasn't at all "buzzed" or hurt. in the slightest. He was starting to lose momentum but thats all. Tunes, please re-teach your eyes how to see things because they're playing tricks on you.

lol, the Irony.

If you are hell bent on ignoring all he other shots then go for it mate but I see them.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Everyone saw it happen Tunes apart from you, Groves lands four shots in a row making Froch hold on for dear life. There is no point carrying this conversation as you choose to ignore videographic evidence.

Great!, thanks for assessing the vid, now all you have to do is pass on the time point so we can all actually see for our selves and not just take your word for it, I will be happy to go to the time point you have seen this and have a good look and if I see it I will hold my hands up. But I think that a load of hog wash

Safe to say you're a classless idiot who doesn't have a clue what he's talking about. Don't start accusing me of bias and mistruths, what exactly gives you the right to accuse others when you're the minority going completely against the grain. I have no need to rewatch a fight i've watched 3 times already just to pinpoint the exact second Froch was holding on in the 6th, use your own eyes.

hampo171 wrote:I'm so happy Froch has said that he is against the rematch and that Groves was DOWN and out. I don't remember Groves being down at all.

Shown his true colours in the aftermath of this; he can't sit and claim he doesn't feel like giving Groves a pay day when we all know that it's the biggest pay day out there for him also. He claims it's because he hasn't been shown respect yet I'm sure the saying is that it's a two way street and I know which of the two has shown more of a lack of class and respect.

Hampo - Feel free to add Froch to the list of growing people I want on the podcast so that I can tell them just how much of an idiot they are. DeGale, Broner & Froch all in the same show...that would be a corker!!   

I must have watched something different then, oh yeah Froch's Mayweather-esque shoulder roll stops him from taking a single shot and then Groves gets dropped hard.  

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Safe to say you're a classless idiot who doesn't have a clue what he's talking about. Don't start accusing me of bias and mistruths, what exactly gives you the right to accuse others when you're the minority going completely against the grain. I have no need to rewatch a fight i've watched 3 times already just to pinpoint the exact second Froch was holding on in the 6th, use your own eyes.

So now you are resorting to insults...

I will no longer comment on youur posts if you are going to brand me as "classless" and an "idiot" both of which are completely inaccurate., I could give my description of you but will keep it to my self.
Either show me where in the video you are talking about or don't, But don't expect me to take your word over the video, There is no point in rnd 6 where he is in trouble for an extended period like Groves was in rnd 9. Being hit and then smothering an attack is not being in big trouble, anyone that knows a small amount on boxing can look at rnd 9 and see how Hurt Groves was, even though he was not completely finished.

Froch was not hurt as badly bar the first round knock down, those who says he was are talking hog wash and being bias, thats my opinion, and I have posted the video to the whole fight to allow people to underline where Froch was hurt as bad and to prove me wrong, Nothing "classless" about that.

I think you are bais because you sound bias, simple as that, I have the right because I have a right to an opinion, If you dont want to underline the part in the fight you are referring to then good for you, but dont expect me to pretend to see what you claim you have seen.   

owen10ozzy wrote:

hampo171 wrote:I'm so happy Froch has said that he is against the rematch and that Groves was DOWN and out. I don't remember Groves being down at all.

Shown his true colours in the aftermath of this; he can't sit and claim he doesn't feel like giving Groves a pay day when we all know that it's the biggest pay day out there for him also. He claims it's because he hasn't been shown respect yet I'm sure the saying is that it's a two way street and I know which of the two has shown more of a lack of class and respect.

Hampo - Feel free to add Froch to the list of growing people I want on the podcast so that I can tell them just how much of an idiot they are. DeGale, Broner & Froch all in the same show...that would be a corker!!   

Froch has come out with some stupid comments, But Groves has not exactly acted very gracious in defeat. He has given Carl no credit at all when asking for the rematch, when Carl did not stop the fight, he was busy punching Groves against the ropes and running after him.

I would also like to listen to you interview Froch and Degale, both of which are probably not as "dim" as you think... You could maybe ask Degale what its like to be snubbed a rematch when you think you have had a raw deal.

I posted a video that showed Groves showing respect to Froch. Groves has said Froch is tough and keeps coming, Froch hasn't even given Groves 0.0000001% of credit despite giving him a boxing lesson.

Really?, did not see that vid...

I have seen Froch's post fight comments on Groves and thought they were very fair...

Here..

"He deserves Credit, he fought a fantastic fight and he got off to a great start, a sharp start, and he has proven that be belongs to mix at this level, which he never done before. So, he surprised me, fought very well, unfortunately for him I did what I do, I finished strongly, rnd 7 or 8 I started to brake him down and rnd 9 I was really getting to him"

"I give allot of Credit to George Groves, he gave me one hell of a fight"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yda5Gj6g8Kg

Froch is a knob

Are those the post fight comments in which he said he'd give Groves a rematch just to get a cheer from the crowd?

hampo171 wrote:Are those the post fight comments in which he said he'd give Groves a rematch just to get a cheer from the crowd?

I think to hold someone to ransom on what they say minutes after they have have just spent 9 rounds being punched in the head is not really the best bases of judgment! Especially when after coming back in a fight where he was knocked down with a huge punch in the first rnd and out boxed only to still manage to turn things around so late, yet being Boo'ed by some lousy fans...

That's my point Tunes. He has since made it very clear he feels he dominated Groves and that he was in total control. He is a very confused individual.

He forgets that the behaviours he criticises Groves for, are exactly what he did to Calzaghe.

I'm pretty amazed that there is even a debate on this.

What I saw was Groves dominate Froch and hurt him several times, then Froch shifted momentum, but certainly needed a good few more clean shots to warrant a stoppage. It was soft. No doubts. Groves simply was not given the same allowances as Froch. That's what I saw at least.

I'm a Froch fan (less so now I admit). This is the biggest paying and most called for fight he can take. It's pretty clear he doesn't want it.

I think Groves although done well is the one who needs the rematch, and has not really gone about it in a good manner. "Rematch me or retire"? hmmm ok.

Sorry Tunes but who else does Froch fight?

Ward - One sided the first time, more so second time round.
Chavez JR - what's he done at SMW to deserve a shot?

Unless he moves up he doesn't have a credible opponent at SMW.

Boxtthis wrote:I'm pretty amazed that there is even a debate on this.

What I saw was Groves dominate Froch and hurt him several times, then Froch shifted momentum, but certainly needed a good few more clean shots to warrant a stoppage. It was soft. No doubts. Groves simply was not given the same allowances as Froch. That's what I saw at least.

I'm a Froch fan (less so now I admit). This is the biggest paying and most called for fight he can take. It's pretty clear he doesn't want it.

I almost agree with this, although Froch was not given any "allowance".. had the first round gone on for 10 more seconds I think the Reff would have stopped the fight as well... But he was saved by the bell, no helping hand from the reff. The rest of the fight, Froch was not in trouble, just being completely out boxed and caught with lots of good punches.

While Groves made out Froch had a hand because of his chins reputation, The truth of the matter is that Froch proved his chin (punch resistance) is better than Groves simple as that....

Absolute rubbish Tunes. Groves wasn't given the chance to show his chin was up to the punishment, despite quite clearly still defending himself and throwing back

I want a rematch with Ward. Just to see him get beat upon some more