Who do you blame for Mike Tyson's demise ?

First topic message reminder :

1. Cus D'amato's obsessive desire to get another heavy champ...overlooking personality traits and faults on the way..
2. Jacobs and Cayton's handling of their million dollar baby..
3. The Roper's...
4. Don king.
5. Mike Tyson himself..

Me I've got alot of sympathy for Mike used from start to finish......

For me all the above were in some way at fault however I do believe Cus and the Managers cared at some basic level and it was the Roper's who for me bear most responsibility..For removing Mike's comfort zone.

Dear oh dear.....Mate I'm going to drag Robbie off his Xbox and spend some time with the viper.....

Maybe by tomorrow you'll understand where we are coming from..though I doubt it..

Lord give me strength.

Money has nothing to do with it? Really? Money has everything to do with it. From his first infractions under D'Amato, money was used to smooth the way for Mike to become World Champion. People paid off to withdraw allegations or to look the other way. Then, as he became rich and famous he believed money would protect him from anything that came his way.

Having money meant that Tyson didn't HAVE to accept responsibility for his actions.

DAVE667 wrote:Money has nothing to do with it? Really? Money has everything to do with it. From his first infractions under D'Amato, money was used to smooth the way for Mike to become World Champion. People paid off to withdraw allegations or to look the other way. Then, as he became rich and famous he believed money would protect him from anything that came his way.

Having money meant that Tyson didn't HAVE to accept responsibility for his actions.

Why should he change because he had shed loads of money? Money doesn't make you a better person. In fact it makes others worse people by virtue of what happened to Tyson.

Tyson has accepted responsibility for his actions. He still denies the Desiree Washington conviction.

This was the documentary true stories Tyson that was aired on more 4. He discusses his problems and who he feels is to blame.
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/tyson/4od

prettyboykev wrote:This was the documentary true stories Tyson that was aired on more 4. He discusses his problems and who he feels is to blame.
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/tyson/4od

Cheers, I haven't see it. Can you precis it and who does he blame. Does he accept responsibility?

azania wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:This was the documentary true stories Tyson that was aired on more 4. He discusses his problems and who he feels is to blame.
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/tyson/4od

Cheers, I haven't see it. Can you precis it and who does he blame. Does he accept responsibility?

He blames himself for letting the people use him. Watch it he discusses his sex life and how he likes to treat woman in bed it's quite off putting considering the record he has.

Tyson has accepted responsibility for his actions. He still denies the Desiree Washington conviction.

But the whole point of the article isn't about who Tyson feels is responsible, it asked US ON 606v2 who we feel is responsible for Tyson's demise and the issue was around people suggesting it was anyone and everyone other than Tyson himself

DAVE667 wrote:Tyson has accepted responsibility for his actions. He still denies the Desiree Washington conviction.

But the whole point of the article isn't about who Tyson feels is responsible, it asked US ON 606v2 who we feel is responsible for Tyson's demise and the issue was around people suggesting it was anyone and everyone other than Tyson himself

Most have said Tyson is solely responsible. In a way yes, but there were circumstances at play which made what happened inevitable. The facts are that Tyson, for want of a better word, was an abused individual practically from birth. His abusers do have a moral responsibility for what happened to him.

The law sometimes is very black and white. But society has shades of gray.

Once again, I'll ask. Why do many abused individuals become abusers themselves. I asked in my very first post on this thread and a few times subsequently. Not a dillio of an answer.

No black and white answer again but perhaps the abused become the abusers as a means to exact revenge even though they inflicting that pain on someone else.

Perhaps they see themselves in the eyes of their victims, and having been told that it's their own fault they were abused (by their abusers as opposed to society at large) they are punishing themselves through their victims and are caught in a maelstrom of emotion and hatred they can neither comprehend of break.

I could have simply written "I don't know" but I thought you deserved the courtesy of me having a stab at an answer.

Tyson was taken from an abusive life and given stabilty in the D'Amato household. He was given, through boxing, structure and discipline (the same structure and discipline other disadvantaged youth were given) and yet Tyson made a conscious decision to ignore the opportunities afforded him and AS A GROWN MAN FULLY AWARE OF RIGHT AND WRONG, continued to behave in a manner which ultimately led to his downfall.

"I didn't have a chance" "I didn't have choice" I hear it daily and I'm sorry but EVERYONE has a choice.

"I can't help it" Yes you can, you just choose the easier option of not fighting against the urge. Tyson wasn't in the grip of raging alcoholism or drug addiction which can affect judgement and the thought making process. He set out wilfully to use his fame and notoriety to his advantage.

DAVE667 wrote:No black and white answer again but perhaps the abused become the abusers as a means to exact revenge even though they inflicting that pain on someone else.

Perhaps they see themselves in the eyes of their victims, and having been told that it's their own fault they were abused (by their abusers as opposed to society at large) they are punishing themselves through their victims and are caught in a maelstrom of emotion and hatred they can neither comprehend of break.

I could have simply written "I don't know" but I thought you deserved the courtesy of me having a stab at an answer.

Tyson was taken from an abusive life and given stabilty in the D'Amato household. He was given, through boxing, structure and discipline (the same structure and discipline other disadvantaged youth were given) and yet Tyson made a conscious decision to ignore the opportunities afforded him and AS A GROWN MAN FULLY AWARE OF RIGHT AND WRONG, continued to behave in a manner which ultimately led to his downfall.

"I didn't have a chance" "I didn't have choice" I hear it daily and I'm sorry but EVERYONE has a choice.

"I can't help it" Yes you can, you just choose the easier option of not fighting against the urge. Tyson wasn't in the grip of raging alcoholism or drug addiction which can affect judgement and the thought making process. He set out wilfully to use his fame and notoriety to his advantage.

Maybe so. But dont you think there were circumstances at play that led the abused to become an abuser?

He was not given stability in Cus's home. Quite the opposite. He was taught that his excesses would be tolerated amd the victim paid off. Therein lay one of the circumstances. He was taught that he was beyond the accepted norm in society.

Wish I hadn't been a johnny come lately on this thread, it's *bonkers*!