Who do you blame for Mike Tyson's demise ?

First topic message reminder :

1. Cus D'amato's obsessive desire to get another heavy champ...overlooking personality traits and faults on the way..
2. Jacobs and Cayton's handling of their million dollar baby..
3. The Roper's...
4. Don king.
5. Mike Tyson himself..

Me I've got alot of sympathy for Mike used from start to finish......

For me all the above were in some way at fault however I do believe Cus and the Managers cared at some basic level and it was the Roper's who for me bear most responsibility..For removing Mike's comfort zone.

Sorry but the difference between a rough upbringing and a ferral upbringing are worlds apart and to suggest that Tyson knew no better is a ludicrous statement, too many excuses are made for him.

He's suggesting his excesses were overlooked because he was a star in the making...

Sorry Azania, valiant effort, but I simply can't abide by the idea that Tyson didn't know sexually assaulting and hitting women was wrong. To say he knew no better is outrageous as far as I'm concerned - but then again, maybe I just lack compassion, eh?

The sexual assault charge is debatable...Do you still have Barry George killing Dando????

Everyone realises the case was flawed and badly defended..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Only a muppet would think the reaching comment was aimed at you..

Aww, here come the muppet comments.

Andy Murray backhand..Probably about as mature a comment as we'll get off this guy!!

Well, given that your ability to make it clear who you're talkng to is about as effective as your ability to construct a reasoned argument with resorting to hissy fits...it's not surprising confusion reigns supreme.

As McCartney quite rightly points out, you were close to appearing quite adult towards Jeff and then flushed the whole thing down the toilet at the end...therefore, I feel the Andy Murray comparison is quite apt..cos he's a stroppy little mummy's boy as well!

Because the reason they turned to drink in the first place is because they have no esteem
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Wow, here speaks the voice of experience. Face it TRUSS, you know as little as anyone else about the subject and the only way you'll ever be able to appreciate the plight of these people is to go through the same thing yourself. However as you're basically an over-privileged middle class gas-bag, you volunteering at a clinic then going home to a nice clean bed and hot meal is as much a kick in the teeth to them as watching an addict throw yet another good turn in your face is to someone trying to help

Anyway off home now, but I'd like to point out the hypocrisy of TRUSS lambasting us for our supposed lack of compassion whilst accusing his wife of being selfish for wanting another child!!!!

I sat in on meetings and picked up that the main thing they had in common was self-loathing..Maybe you were one of the people I was listening too..you fit the profile!!!

I studied Sociology and Criminology at Uni and one of the major problems in my humble opinion with a lot of sociological and criminological theories is they are largely apologist theories and for me this is a classic example of such problems. I appreciate a person's background will influence the person they grow up to be, be that Tyson or me and you but that can only excuse so much.

However whilst they can influence the person we become at some point a degree of personal agency has to take hold and I'm sorry as Chris rightly says irrespective of our backgrounds, you know damned well hitting women is wrong, irrespective of provocation and upbringing, you know it I know it and Tyson damned well knew it. I manage not to hit women and would like to think we all do similar. There is a line where compassion ends and we have to acknowledge some actions are just plain wrong and Mike has plenty that fall into this category.

I've never condoned his behaviour Rowley...I've just said that there are reasons for it....

Rapists should go to jail..murderers etc..

Never said he shouldn't take responsibility for his actions..

Come on..

88Chris05 wrote:Sorry Azania, valiant effort, but I simply can't abide by the idea that Tyson didn't know sexually assaulting and hitting women was wrong. To say he knew no better is outrageous as far as I'm concerned - but then again, maybe I just lack compassion, eh?

When excuses are made for his assaults on women and he gets away with it, then perhaps it is a reason why he continued with it. Apparently as a 15 year old he was accused of sexually assaulting another girl. The girl was paid off. What does that say to an impressionable young man?

Apparently Desiree Washington was offered money to drop charges.

She went to civil court quick enough..to pick up a million bucks.

Like the Boycott Cuddle alleger she didn't quite fit the victim profile.

rowley wrote:I studied Sociology and Criminology at Uni and one of the major problems in my humble opinion with a lot of sociological and criminological theories is they are largely apologist theories and for me this is a classic example of such problems. I appreciate a person's background will influence the person they grow up to be, be that Tyson or me and you but that can only excuse so much.

However whilst they can influence the person we become at some point a degree of personal agency has to take hold and I'm sorry as Chris rightly says irrespective of our backgrounds, you know damned well hitting women is wrong, irrespective of provocation and upbringing, you know it I know it and Tyson damned well knew it. I manage not to hit women and would like to think we all do similar. There is a line where compassion ends and we have to acknowledge some actions are just plain wrong and Mike has plenty that fall into this category.

The error you make rowley is you assume that we believe Tyson's behaviour was excusable. At no point have I excused his behaviour. He takes the ultimate responsibility because it is his life and actions. But there were outside influences which contributed to those actions and they are also culpable to an extent. The level of extent is debeatable.

azania wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:Sorry Azania, valiant effort, but I simply can't abide by the idea that Tyson didn't know sexually assaulting and hitting women was wrong. To say he knew no better is outrageous as far as I'm concerned - but then again, maybe I just lack compassion, eh?

When excuses are made for his assaults on women and he gets away with it, then perhaps it is a reason why he continued with it. Apparently as a 15 year old he was accused of sexually assaulting another girl. The girl was paid off. What does that say to an impressionable young man?

Apparently Desiree Washington was offered money to drop charges.

That doesn't suggest to me that Tyson didn't know that what he was doing was wrong; it suggests to me that he was an unsavoury enough character to keep doing it because he had his backers to get him out of trouble. The fact that his backers were continually having to pay his way out of trouble in order to keep Tyson away from court should only have served as further proof to Tyson that what he was doing was wrong. Tyson has spoken of how hurt and upset he was when people called him names and picked on him as a child, and now we're supposed to believe that he had no idea sexually assaulting and hitting women was wrong? Simply doesn't wash.

Truss, bringing up the Jill Dando case has set a new benchmark for moot points. George was pardoned and subsequently has been acquitted, Tyson hasn't been. Until the day that he is, I'll maintain that he's a convicted sex offender, because that's what he is. And once more, seeing as you like to remind us all of the worth of 'primary evidence', then you should accept that the jury of Tyson's peers who found him guilty were in a better position to decide that than you are. As I said, you talk as if it's a fact that Tyson was wrongly convicted and that the case was dodgy. You have nothing to properly back up either idea, it's pure speculation.

88Chris05 wrote:

azania wrote:

88Chris05 wrote:Sorry Azania, valiant effort, but I simply can't abide by the idea that Tyson didn't know sexually assaulting and hitting women was wrong. To say he knew no better is outrageous as far as I'm concerned - but then again, maybe I just lack compassion, eh?

When excuses are made for his assaults on women and he gets away with it, then perhaps it is a reason why he continued with it. Apparently as a 15 year old he was accused of sexually assaulting another girl. The girl was paid off. What does that say to an impressionable young man?

Apparently Desiree Washington was offered money to drop charges.

That doesn't suggest to me that Tyson didn't know that what he was doing was wrong; it suggests to me that he was an unsavoury enough character to keep doing it because he had his backers to get him out of trouble. The fact that his backers were continually having to pay his way out of trouble in order to keep Tyson away from court should only have served as further proof to Tyson that what he was doing was wrong. Tyson has spoken of how hurt and upset he was when people called him names and picked on him as a child, and now we're supposed to believe that he had no idea sexually assaulting and hitting women was wrong? Simply doesn't wash.

Truss, bringing up the Jill Dando case has set a new benchmark for moot points. George was pardoned and subsequently has been acquitted, Tyson hasn't been. Until the day that he is, I'll maintain that he's a convicted sex offender, because that's what he is. And once more, seeing as you like to remind us all of the worth of 'primary evidence', then you should accept that the jury of Tyson's peers who found him guilty were in a better position to decide that than you are. As I said, you talk as if it's a fact that Tyson was wrongly convicted and that the case was dodgy. You have nothing to properly back up either idea, it's pure speculation.

Interesting point. Why do abused people often become abusers themselves?

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I sat in on meetings and picked up that the main thing they had in common was self-loathing..Maybe you were one of the people I was listening too..you fit the profile!!!

Like I say dear boy, your insistance on cheap shots whilst trying to convince us of your compassion, does nothing but show you up to be a really fool. As for self loathing, it isn't me going on-line to tell a bunch of strangers how much his selfish wife has ruined his life. "Wah....she's having another baby! Why me?" Err, who got her pregnant you idiot? try taking some personal responsibility lad...or like Mike, are you just going to blame everyone else?

As for these feelings of self loathing in substance abusers, I think you'll find in some cases, a number of these people feel worthless only AFTER they've gone down that path...at the time they start abusing these substances, many of them feel invincible and believe they have the strength to control ANY situation including drink and/or drugs. The usual mantra is one of, "I won't be like those other losers!". It's only when they're at the stage where they're attending meetings that the feelings of worthlessness kick in.

But of course, I've only worked for the Police for 15 years, occasionally working with people battlling substance abuse and don't have your extensive knowledge of the personal circumstances surrounding each and every person who's ever abused drugs/alcohol so I couldn't possibly have a valid opinion on the subject

As soon as I wrote it I knew you'd rush home look what I'd written and then respond..

You sensitive little boy...

Act like a Man...you're pathetic.

As for worthless after they'd gone down that path..Most abusers use alcohol as a crutch...hence they felt worthless to be drinking in the first place there is always an exception to every rule...

Truss you keep using the word 'most' how do you know this to be true?

Because of the stories I heard...Maybe a lost child, being bullied, a divorce, a bereavement, sexual abuse....

There is usually a trigger...

Shouldn't generalise really but in this case there is usually a pattern Prettyboy.

Like I say there are exceptions...

Binge drinking is usually the worst type...The type that drinks at home on his/her own!!!

People don't realise that it's a depressant alcohol and that it makes you worse.......

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Because of the stories I heard...Maybe a lost child, being bullied, a divorce, a bereavement, sexual abuse....

There is usually a trigger...

Shouldn't generalise really but in this case there is usually a pattern Prettyboy.

Like I say there are exceptions...

Binge drinking is usually the worst type...The type that drinks at home on his/her own!!!

People don't realise that it's a depressant alcohol and that it makes you worse.......

My Mum is a social worker she tells me some stuff about things she deals with and their usually seems to be a trigger. Their are also people who have suffered these sorts of things that take responsibility for their own lifes.
This is my problem with Tyson by the time he was World champion he was a young man. If someone needs to take the blame for the negative things he done, then imo someone needs to take credit for the positive things he done.
Have you seen the programme Tyson true stories that was on more 4?
He shouldes the blame for his mistakes and this might be what is behind him getting better over the last few years.

Mate like I said everybody is made differently...Some are strong some are weak...

We all have to take responsibility for our actions but those that can't handle the stresses of their past deserve our compassion..

prettyboykev wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Because of the stories I heard...Maybe a lost child, being bullied, a divorce, a bereavement, sexual abuse....

There is usually a trigger...

Shouldn't generalise really but in this case there is usually a pattern Prettyboy.

Like I say there are exceptions...

Binge drinking is usually the worst type...The type that drinks at home on his/her own!!!

People don't realise that it's a depressant alcohol and that it makes you worse.......

My Mum is a social worker she tells me some stuff about things she deals with and their usually seems to be a trigger. Their are also people who have suffered these sorts of things that take responsibility for their own lifes.
This is my problem with Tyson by the time he was World champion he was a young man. If someone needs to take the blame for the negative things he done, then imo someone needs to take credit for the positive things he done.
Have you seen the programme Tyson true stories that was on more 4?
He shouldes the blame for his mistakes and this might be what is behind him getting better over the last few years.

Of course he shoulders the blame. He should do. He was over the age of 18 when many things happen. Legally and morally it was his responsibility. Likewise an alcoholic should shoul;der the blame for being one. A druggie should shoulder the blame for stealing to feed his/her habit. But sometimes there are many circumstances that makes one a druggie for which they have to share the blame. But untimately it is the druggie's fault that s/he went down that route.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:As soon as I wrote it I knew you'd rush home look what I'd written and then respond..

You sensitive little boy...

Act like a Man...you're pathetic.

As for worthless after they'd gone down that path..Most abusers use alcohol as a crutch...hence they felt worthless to be drinking in the first place there is always an exception to every rule...

Aye, I rushed home and responded two hours later!!! Clearly rush means something different in America..or Disbury (Dudsbury more like)

Didn't realise the debate ended as soon as I clocked off from work. Maybe the Mods can put up a banner which states that only your rules apply to your debates. Strange how such an arrogant crass blowhard like yourself has spent most of the day talking about his compassionate side. Seems you're either bi-polar to some degree or just a liar!

Maybe you're just a pompous windbag with few redeeming features as your attitude towards your wife clearly demonstrates. Nothing manly about that attitude of yours TRUSSY so perhaps you're not the right person to be telling me..or anyone...what's best eh?

azania wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Because of the stories I heard...Maybe a lost child, being bullied, a divorce, a bereavement, sexual abuse....

There is usually a trigger...

Shouldn't generalise really but in this case there is usually a pattern Prettyboy.

Like I say there are exceptions...

Binge drinking is usually the worst type...The type that drinks at home on his/her own!!!

People don't realise that it's a depressant alcohol and that it makes you worse.......

My Mum is a social worker she tells me some stuff about things she deals with and their usually seems to be a trigger. Their are also people who have suffered these sorts of things that take responsibility for their own lifes.
This is my problem with Tyson by the time he was World champion he was a young man. If someone needs to take the blame for the negative things he done, then imo someone needs to take credit for the positive things he done.
Have you seen the programme Tyson true stories that was on more 4?
He shouldes the blame for his mistakes and this might be what is behind him getting better over the last few years.

Of course he shoulders the blame. He should do. He was over the age of 18 when many things happen. Legally and morally it was his responsibility. Likewise an alcoholic should shoul;der the blame for being one. A druggie should shoulder the blame for stealing to feed his/her habit. But sometimes there are many circumstances that makes one a druggie for which they have to share the blame. But untimately it is the druggie's fault that s/he went down that route.

I'm not arguing that but I think that shouldering the blame in some circumstances may be the way to recovery or not getting into certain situations in the first place.

No one disputes that Azania.....However if a Father abuses his daughter and she loses the plot he should bear some responsibility don't you think????

Rowley: I manage not to hit women and would like to think we all do similar.
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Absolutely Rowley couldn't agree more. Unless of course my tea's not on the table when I get back from the pub, in which case I have no choice but to unleash hell on the useless cow.

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:Rowley: I manage not to hit women and would like to think we all do similar.
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Absolutely Rowley couldn't agree more. Unless of course my tea's not on the table when I get back from the pub, in which case I have no choice but to unleash hell on the useless cow.

Quite right mate

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:No one disputes that Azania.....However if a Father abuses his daughter and she loses the plot he should bear some responsibility don't you think????

Some of our moralists here would say she was an adult and should be held accountable for her actions. I would pin 99.99% of the blame on her old man. People are people and react differently.

Mandela forgave. I most certainly would never forgive. Different strokes for different folks.

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:Rowley: I manage not to hit women and would like to think we all do similar.
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Absolutely Rowley couldn't agree more. Unless of course my tea's not on the table when I get back from the pub, in which case I have no choice but to unleash hell on the useless cow.

Well obviously when I made the comment I was not referring to exceptional circumstances like that, even a whiny tree hugging liberal like me realises every man has his limits.

You can't let a perceived slight go can you DAVE....

Ever since them brothers disowned you...Seriously though the profile of most of the addicts in the priory seems to fit you perfectly...

If you ever feel the need to talk about it let me know...

I don't get physical with my Wife when my tea's late....

My father-in-law knows too many people

prettyboykev wrote:

azania wrote:

prettyboykev wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Because of the stories I heard...Maybe a lost child, being bullied, a divorce, a bereavement, sexual abuse....

There is usually a trigger...

Shouldn't generalise really but in this case there is usually a pattern Prettyboy.

Like I say there are exceptions...

Binge drinking is usually the worst type...The type that drinks at home on his/her own!!!

People don't realise that it's a depressant alcohol and that it makes you worse.......

My Mum is a social worker she tells me some stuff about things she deals with and their usually seems to be a trigger. Their are also people who have suffered these sorts of things that take responsibility for their own lifes.
This is my problem with Tyson by the time he was World champion he was a young man. If someone needs to take the blame for the negative things he done, then imo someone needs to take credit for the positive things he done.
Have you seen the programme Tyson true stories that was on more 4?
He shouldes the blame for his mistakes and this might be what is behind him getting better over the last few years.

Of course he shoulders the blame. He should do. He was over the age of 18 when many things happen. Legally and morally it was his responsibility. Likewise an alcoholic should shoul;der the blame for being one. A druggie should shoulder the blame for stealing to feed his/her habit. But sometimes there are many circumstances that makes one a druggie for which they have to share the blame. But untimately it is the druggie's fault that s/he went down that route.

I'm not arguing that but I think that shouldering the blame in some circumstances may be the way to recovery or not getting into certain situations in the first place.

By any definition Tyson had it tough in his formative years. Zero parental guidance. A man who only saw "world heavyweight champ" when he was 15 and who became his legal guardian. Sharks and thieves in every corner. No wonder he went off the rails. Many 'stronger' people would also.

People have said Ali was a racist in the 1960s and wasn't like MLK. Ali was bitter and angry and rightly so. He reacted differently than MLK. Different folks. Frankly people like MLK amaze me. USA got bombed on 911. Why wasnt there calls for a peace march as opposed to bombing the cr@p out of another 2 countries? People react differently to whatever circumstances they feel they have been forced into. I use the word forced into deliberately also given that Tyson's upbringing lended itself to extremes in behaviour and often unpleasant behaviour to put it lightly.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You can't let a perceived slight go can you DAVE....

Ever since them brothers disowned you...Seriously though the profile of most of the addicts in the priory seems to fit you perfectly...

If you ever feel the need to talk about it let me know...

I don't get physical with my Wife when my tea's late....

My father-in-law knows too many people

Such as your bank manager you mean?

With respect to Rowley, Azania.. I've probably debated on the same threads as him for five years and still have yet to see him say something nice about Tyson....

Bank Manager.....

Seriously though the profile of most of the addicts in the priory seems to fit you perfectly...
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Shows what you know son. Got my job, my home, my wife and my family. Spent several hours last week helping gather enough evidence to get a man charged with murder. Quite proud of my contribution to society. Had plenty of opportunity over the years to go down the road to ruin when things went wrong, but never once turned to drink or drugs as I realised what was more important.

As said before, people can make a conscious decision NOT to let things get to the stage where they rely on a substance for a crutch and I don't consider myself better that those who did, I just consider myself fortunate I didn't.

Like I said some people are strong and some aren't.........

You've got a family now have you......What was it an instant pregnancy and birth or something..

"Got my home, my wife etc etc etc etc etc" You talk too much...sounds like you're trying to convince yourself rather than me..

Always an edge to your posts......Anger management perhaps????

DAVE667 wrote:Seriously though the profile of most of the addicts in the priory seems to fit you perfectly...
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Shows what you know son. Got my job, my home, my wife and my family. Spent several hours last week helping gather enough evidence to get a man charged with murder. Quite proud of my contribution to society. Had plenty of opportunity over the years to go down the road to ruin when things went wrong, but never once turned to drink or drugs as I realised what was more important.

As said before, people can make a conscious decision NOT to let things get to the stage where they rely on a substance for a crutch and I don't consider myself better that those who did, I just consider myself fortunate I didn't.

Some people are mentally stronger than others. I am sure you are aware of the Ealing r@pe case in which the victim spoke clearly and candidly about her horrific ordeal. She is unique.

Many others would be gibbering wrecks if they went through what she did.

Truss I assure you I have said plenty positive about Tyson. However as you know as well as me on 606 for a large period we had two types of posta about Tyson. One was the likes of Tysonking and Damonknight telling us Tyson was the greatest ever FACT!!!! or the other was one two telling us he deserved respect as a man outside the ring.

Now when confronted with such overblown and downright incorrect guff is perhaps inevitable my responses will position me as fairly negative. However just for you Truss will acknowledge Mike was one of the most exciting fighters in the history of the division with IMO all the physical attributes to be one of the greatest fighters the division has seen.

Well said Azania..he doesn't get it!!!

Downright incorrect guff..

In your opinion pal..and your's is no better than anyone elses.....

Just remember that...

Apologies Truss did mean to put IMO in the post, genuine oversight on my part.

It's okay Mate...

All opinions are welcome..

azania wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:Seriously though the profile of most of the addicts in the priory seems to fit you perfectly...
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Shows what you know son. Got my job, my home, my wife and my family. Spent several hours last week helping gather enough evidence to get a man charged with murder. Quite proud of my contribution to society. Had plenty of opportunity over the years to go down the road to ruin when things went wrong, but never once turned to drink or drugs as I realised what was more important.

As said before, people can make a conscious decision NOT to let things get to the stage where they rely on a substance for a crutch and I don't consider myself better that those who did, I just consider myself fortunate I didn't.

Some people are mentally stronger than others. I am sure you are aware of the Ealing r@pe case in which the victim spoke clearly and candidly about her horrific ordeal. She is unique.

Many others would be gibbering wrecks if they went through what she did.

She may well be an incredible human being but she's far from unique. There are many, MANY women who've gone through the same ordeal who dealt with it with an inner strength I've found humbling. Sorry to burst that bubble TRUSSY but I do, "get" it. I've met them, sat with them talked to them perhaps more than some and whilst I can never hope to understand what they went through, I can appreciate the mental strength they possess.

That's why, some people might find it difficult to understand how a man with the World at his feet and then went on to commit one of the most heinous crimes imaginable, should deserve our sympthy.

Maybe it's you who doesn't get it?

She is bloody unique in the manner she has held herself together and spoken so openly about what was an absolutely terrifying ordeal. Yes she has huge inner strength. Other women also have it. But some do not and end up wrecked. Do you blame them for the fact that they are wrecked and subsequently make bad decisions or their assailant? After all, no-one forced them (the victims) to inject, snort or down huge quantities of alcohol.

Tyson was convicted of a terrible crime. I have read that if he didn't take the stand he would have been acquitted.

Also if he had Johnny Cochrane as his lawyer he would not have been sent down.

You don't get it because you are assuming everyone has inner strength..from my days at the priory I know it's not the case....

You're obviously a strong lad who has done alright for himself family, house etc...but not everybody has what it takes....

I have self doubt we all do.....I doubted whether I should leave my Home Country at such a young age and take a gamble....

I'm glad I did...Some people wouldn't have done that....


Some people find life harder to deal with than others..It's the way it is and just because you've come through the other side don't pee on people that haven't the mental strength to do it..

Everyone is different remember that..

She is bloody unique in the manner she has held herself together and spoken so openly about what was an absolutely terrifying ordeal
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Maybe to you but I've seen and spoken to plenty of other women who've told horrific tales of abuse. I have listened to women tell of how they were burned with cigarettes, whipped with barbed wire, had thier fingers broken, one had the blade of a knife inserted into her, then after being repeatedly beatem and sexually assaulted she was stripped naked, tied to a tree, urinated on and left for dead.

Please don't tell me about inner strength or mental frailty because I've also dealt with men who raped women and then blamed it on their ex-wives and the temptation the strangle them with my bare hands has been quite powerful.

I've dealt with ex prostitutes, alcoholics and drug addicts who've risen from nothing and gone on to set up shelters and support groups for other people in that situation and yet somehow, I struggle to put Mike Tyson in that same catagory you know with him having the means and opportunity to do such wonderful things yet not.

The fact he now recognises, now he has nothing of real material value, that he led a bad life, doesn't excuse his past actions. I wonder that if one day when Mike himself admits his failings, people will stop making excuses for him.

I'm not telling you about inner-strength...

I'm telling you that not everybody has it..

Understand the argument or run along.....

The people you mention are heroes...not everybody has the capacity to be one for God sake..

The fact he now recognises, now he has nothing of real material value, that he led a bad life, doesn't excuse his past actions. I wonder that if one day when Mike himself admits his failings, people will stop making excuses for him.

You have patently failed to understand what has been said. NO-ONE if making excuses for Tyson. He did what he did. End of.

With some sort of guidance he could have led a better life and been a better man. He had none and the guidance he got came for personal gain. There were no boundaries or parametres set from his formative years. He was an accident waiting to happen. There are many more like him who even given all the opportunities available will blow it.

In many ways he is also a victim. Victim of greed, selfishness in him being ripped off constantly by people he apparently trusted.

I knew a kid who came here (UK) as a 9 year old as a refugee from DR Congo. He came with his uncle who was a belgian citizen/passport holder. Both his parents were killed in front of him His mother raped and decapitated. That 9 year old lived another 10 years before he died of a smack OD. He never got over what he saw as a child. Yeah, his fault he injected himself.

You have patently failed to understand what has been said. NO-ONE if making excuses for Tyson. He did what he did. End of
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TRUSS's thread asks who is to blame for Mike's demise. If it was solely Mike's fault and if if NO-ONE was making excuses for him, why are there a number of other options for us to consider and why have a number of other people claimed it was the fault of King, Givens and a myriad of others? Seems you're the one failing to understand

Not everybody has the capacity to be a hero but the general perception is that those who've been fortunate enough to earn MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS of dollars, should be in the unique position to do better for themselves and their fellow man and, as in the case of Tyson, not go around assualting women on numerous occasions whilst their apologists walk around claiming it wasn't his fault.

What's money got to do with anything....

There's a guy on BBC1 now ("Strangeways") who stabbed his girlfriend to death and is convinced the thought of seeing his three children again will give him the strength to see out his 30 year sentence and yet it's also stated that he had no empathy for his victim and it was actually all her fault

DAVE667 wrote:You have patently failed to understand what has been said. NO-ONE if making excuses for Tyson. He did what he did. End of
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TRUSS's thread asks who is to blame for Mike's demise. If it was solely Mike's fault and if if NO-ONE was making excuses for him, why are there a number of other options for us to consider and why have a number of other people claimed it was the fault of King, Givens and a myriad of others? Seems you're the one failing to understand

Not everybody has the capacity to be a hero but the general perception is that those who've been fortunate enough to earn MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS of dollars, should be in the unique position to do better for themselves and their fellow man and, as in the case of Tyson, not go around assualting women on numerous occasions whilst their apologists walk around claiming it wasn't his fault.

I have said from my first post here on this thread that Tyson takes ultimate responsibility. But there were circumstances at play which contributed to his demise as a man and as a boxer. I stand by that. Not everyone handles things as stoicly as others. And money has absolutely sod all to do with it.