Joe Schmidt Irelands new coach???

First topic message reminder :

Well Joe has now said he would be interested in what the irfu have to say,IF, leinster release him. He sounds quiet keen. He is now the bookies favourite at 8/15. Interestingly enough, Paddy Power closed all bets on who is to become the next Ireland coach today for a few hours as a large number of people had decided to bet on Joe Schmidt. ?????????

Gibson wrote:"While Schmidt is the clear favourite to succeed Declan Kidney, an IRFU tradition is a cause of some concern to the straight-talking Kiwi. The practice of the head coach presenting his plans for the next day's international match to the National Team Review Group (NTRG) is in danger of proving an obstacle to his candidacy.

At his interview, the current Leinster coach will be asked to put forward his plans for the 2015 World Cup and beyond. However, he will also have some queries of his own – particularly in relation to the custom of the coach's plans being second-guessed at committee level.

Schmidt is understood not to be keen on the practice and could seek the abandonment of the process entirely as a condition of his employment.

At the very least, he is likely to seek assurances the tradition will be radically overhauled.

If the IRFU are set on appointing Schmidt, they could be persuaded to broker a compromise on the issue. Interestingly, some members of the NTRG group are believed to be on the interview panel."

Yes, it IS the Indo SIN. But, his feelings on the IRFU style of interference are well known. Its a no-brainer.

Totally agree Gibbo. This is an opportunity to save Irish rugby right here, unfortunately we need some IRFU Turkeys to vote for Xmas for it to happen ....

red_stag wrote:The two men I would love to see get involved with the IRFU are David Humphreys and Conor O'Shea.

Let them be the blazers - they have the understanding of how a professional rugby organisation needs to be run.

The problem is that the people who would be responsible for giving them the job are the people who are currently doing the job they'd be given!

The problem also is that the job those two would be given is the very job (or that specific aspect that has the potential to interfere with onfield Head Coaching decisions) that Schmidt is against.

Backroom men who administer the business and developments systems of the sport of rugby union on the island is one thing, making judgements or advising changes to players and strategy on the field at International level is the thing Schmidt isn't hot on. And I'm with him. I don't care if it was Humphreys or O'Shea or any other blazer, if they were trying to involve themselves in gameplans and player selections.... nope, I wouldn't like it.

If any of these present or indeed prospective blazers want to coach an International side - apply for the job

SecretFly wrote:Backroom men who administer the business and developments systems of the sport of rugby union on the island is one thing, making judgements or advising changes to players and strategy on the field at International level is the thing Schmidt isn't hot on. And I'm with him.

It's the former that they would do, ideally, not the latter.

Notch wrote:

red_stag wrote:The two men I would love to see get involved with the IRFU are David Humphreys and Conor O'Shea.

Let them be the blazers - they have the understanding of how a professional rugby organisation needs to be run.

The problem is that the people who would be responsible for giving them the job are the people who are currently doing the job they'd be given!

Didn't Michael Cheika turn down Ulster because Humphreys wanted too much control? He would be a formidable blazer alright!

SecretFly wrote:The problem also is that the job those two would be given is the very job (or that specific aspect that has the potential to interfere with onfield Head Coaching decisions) that Schmidt is against.

Backroom men who administer the business and developments systems of the sport of rugby union on the island is one thing, making judgements or advising changes to players and strategy on the field at International level is the thing Schmidt isn't hot on. And I'm with him. I don't care if it was Humphreys or O'Shea or any other blazer, if they were trying to involve themselves in gameplans and player selections.... nope, I wouldn't like it.

If any of these present or indeed prospective blazers want to coach an International side - apply for the job

The thing is, we only have Brendan Fanning's interpretation that this is what happens. From what I can see, its a tradition that they meet the night before an international - now that is way too late for any committee to have any input into on-field strategy or gameplans as first of all the team is announced about 2 or 3 days previous to this little get together.

Secondly - who do you think should decide budgets etc. I bet Schmidt has to have the odd word with Mike Dawson about financing the Leinster team.

Humphreys job is to get the players in, deal with player and coach contracts liaise with the IRFU and yeah- he's the rugby guy responsible for assessing the coaches, the coaches assess and select the players.

It's not a bad thing to have this kind of role, but the Director of Rugby has to be in situ before the coach comes in because it's essential they have a good relationship. I think it's very difficult to parachute a Director of Rugby into a set-up which is already settled. The DoR should be involved in selecting and interviewing the coach.

Why it works for Ulster, so far, is Humphreys doesn't get involved with Anscombes job. The coach doesn't need to justify tactics or selection to him. Thats crucial I think; your head coach has the final call on all things on pitch. Who gets selected, how the team plays, substitutions etc. The one area they do work together is player and coach acquisition, where the DoR has the final call although he may defer to the judgment of the coach.

I think a DoR in the national team would have a very different role given the nature of international selection as opposed to what Humphreys does for Ulster.

Every organisation needs blazers who make decisions off the pitch which are designed to help the team on the pitch.

To think otherwise is naiive.

I think that Humphreys and particularly O'Shea have the nous to do this while allowing the coach to make his own decisions regarding selection and tactics.

They may be involved in an coaching/director of rugby role at the moment but in years to come there will be openings at the IRFU. They have my vote.

The Director of Rugby is involved in interviewing the coach - Eddie Wigglesworth.

There is a distinction to be made between the different roles:

Blazers = people who do not benefit financially from their involvement in rugby (unpaid offcials - Tom Grace, Pa Whelan etc ).
Suits = Executives who benefit financially from their involvement in rugby (i.e., Humphreys, Wigglesworth, Philip Brown).

You can't be a suit and a blazer at the same time.

Yep, it's pretty much Wigglesworth who I'd like to see out on his ear. Not that any one would notice. He's the invisible man. And when he does put his head above the parapet it's usually with something completely unenforcable on NIQ player contracts or another central contract which has little to do with form or ability. He's been in situ since 1998 and whilst some great progress was made in the early years of professionalism we've certainly hit a rut where no real progress has been made for a number of years.

Unpaid officials to have little to no role whatsoever and a guy with a better track record than Wigglesworth into that job please.

Notch wrote:Humphreys job is to get the players in, deal with player and coach contracts liaise with the IRFU and yeah- he's the rugby guy responsible for assessing the coaches, the coaches assess and select the players.

It's not a bad thing to have this kind of role, but the Director of Rugby has to be in situ before the coach comes in because it's essential they have a good relationship. I think it's very difficult to parachute a Director of Rugby into a set-up which is already settled. The DoR should be involved in selecting and interviewing the coach.

Why it works for Ulster, so far, is Humphreys doesn't get involved with Anscombes job. The coach doesn't need to justify tactics or selection to him. Thats crucial I think; your head coach has the final call on all things on pitch. Who gets selected, how the team plays, substitutions etc. The one area they do work together is player and coach acquisition, where the DoR has the final call although he may defer to the judgment of the coach.

I think a DoR in the national team would have a very different role given the nature of international selection as opposed to what Humphreys does for Ulster.

How do you know that Anscombe doesn't have to justify tactics or selections. Humphreys is usually sitting very close to him during matches. Can't see Joe Schmidt (or any other coach tolerating that).

At least O'Shea takes the responsibility for selections & dealing with the Board of Directors (he leaves everything else to his hands on coaching team).

Personally, I think Ulster are pretty lucky that Anscombe tolerates Humphreys making all the decisions, but Anscombe has to take the criticism when the team fails.

Sin é wrote:How do you know that Anscombe doesn't have to justify tactics or selections. Humphreys is usually sitting very close to him during matches. Can't see Joe Schmidt (or any other coach tolerating that).

Joe likes the extra legroom?

Notch wrote:

Sin é wrote:How do you know that Anscombe doesn't have to justify tactics or selections. Humphreys is usually sitting very close to him during matches. Can't see Joe Schmidt (or any other coach tolerating that).

Joe likes the extra legroom?

Not sure what you mean by that - but Humphreys strikes me as a bit of a control freak!


edit: the reason why you have voluntary boards is so that people don't lose the run of themselves - they need to answer to someone.

Sin é wrote:

SecretFly wrote:The problem also is that the job those two would be given is the very job (or that specific aspect that has the potential to interfere with onfield Head Coaching decisions) that Schmidt is against.

Backroom men who administer the business and developments systems of the sport of rugby union on the island is one thing, making judgements or advising changes to players and strategy on the field at International level is the thing Schmidt isn't hot on. And I'm with him. I don't care if it was Humphreys or O'Shea or any other blazer, if they were trying to involve themselves in gameplans and player selections.... nope, I wouldn't like it.

If any of these present or indeed prospective blazers want to coach an International side - apply for the job

The thing is, we only have Brendan Fanning's interpretation that this is what happens. From what I can see, its a tradition that they meet the night before an international - now that is way too late for any committee to have any input into on-field strategy or gameplans as first of all the team is announced about 2 or 3 days previous to this little get together.

Secondly - who do you think should decide budgets etc. I bet Schmidt has to have the odd word with Mike Dawson about financing the Leinster team.

As I said a few days or maybe a week ago, I agree with that...there is no problem having a chat...it helps everyone out. But Joe himself seems to have been made aware of the fact/or belief that something else went on there or else he wouldn't have been allegedly concerned about it.

Maybe they put his mind at rest on that one at the interview and told him it wasn't so that they'd be trying to do his selections for him.

I am delighted if Schmidt is confirmed. Regardless of results he will give us a new structure and an expectation of consistant and upward moving improvement. I also feel, (despite Sin e's nonsense) that he is a coach that Munster players can get behind as I can imagine Joe looking south (and north and even west maybe )and licking his lips at some of the prospects he will now have at his disposal...

Has he though? {But Joe himself seems to have been made aware of the fact/or belief}

I saw Joe on the Late Late and all he said about that really was that he knew them and they knew him well - sounded all very informal.

He sounded like he was taking the job if offered to him (and he would know the end of the week).

wolfball wrote:I am delighted if Schmidt is confirmed. Regardless of results he will give us a new structure and an expectation of consistant and upward moving improvement. I also feel, (despite Sin e's nonsense) that he is a coach that Munster players can get behind as I can imagine Joe looking south (and north and even west maybe )and licking his lips at some of the prospects he will now have at his disposal...

Where did I say that?

Most players will just get on with it if they want to be selected.
The PR of this whole thing is poor and causes division between the supporters, not the players.

As far as I can see most the players really get on well together from all the provinces (in as much as most players will get on together/be pally with most of their provincial team mates).

PS - Tipp are destroying dublin at the moment in the hurling

Sin é wrote:Has he though? {But Joe himself seems to have been made aware of the fact/or belief}

I saw Joe on the Late Late and all he said about that really was that he knew them and they knew him well - sounded all very informal.

He sounded like he was taking the job if offered to him (and he would know the end of the week).

Yes, it sounded like he wanted the job...but it also sounded like a lot of edgy honesty from both sides since he's arrived. The IRFU being frustrated with him and his concerns and he, in turn, being frustrated with them. That's how I read the interview. But that's only to be expected in a relationship where a National Union owns the club (Province).
Yeah, they'll agree a working plan together because he genuinely wants the job and they (if all the reports are true) genuinely want him on side.

The rest Wolfball already covered. I can see him looking over the four Provinces really. And if he has any confidence in himself at all, he must see potential all over the place for units that would hit hard at International level.

Hells Bells Keith Wood was on the interview panel.

Unbelievable!

rodders wrote:Hells Bells Keith Wood was on the interview panel.

Unbelievable!

Former Ireland captain with no vested interest in the game and who has experienced both the amateur and professional era?

Sounds good to me or do you think they should have had Humphreys interviewing the coach?

Schmidt will have the advantage of being removed from any provincial bias or background. He has come from Leinster but he came there via New Zealand. He seems to have got a major concession that even Gobby the House Elf Gatland couldn't get.

If Rick O'Shea (I know Rick is not his real name but it's the simple things) had got the job, he'd not enjoy the level of freedom Schmidt looks likely to get. That can only be good for Ireland along with no doubt a desire to see some attacking rugby integrated into the robust Irish forward play rather than the conservative kicking shoite we had all too often under Kidney Stone.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Schmidt will have the advantage of being removed from any provincial bias or background. He has come from Leinster but he came there via New Zealand. He seems to have got a major concession that even Gobby the House Elf Gatland couldn't get.

If Rick O'Shea (I know Rick is not his real name but it's the simple things) had got the job, he'd not enjoy the level of freedom Schmidt looks likely to get. That can only be good for Ireland along with no doubt a desire to see some attacking rugby integrated into the robust Irish forward play rather than the conservative kicking shoite we had all too often under Kidney Stone.

I don't now about that. He was talking about how great the headmaster (& staff) of his son's school was - his son suffers from epilepsy - on the Late Late Show and he put it something like: "The Headmaster is great, only problem is he is a Munsterfan"

Seems like he's not removed of common sense.

Sin é wrote:
I don't now about that. He was talking about how great the headmaster (& staff) of his son's school was - his son suffers from epilepsy - on the Late Late Show and he put it something like: "The Headmaster is great, only problem is he is a Munsterfan"

I think thats called a joke Sin. If he was truly biased he wouldnt send his son to a school that had a Munster headmaster.

Or egg his car when the headmaster left the school grounds to go back home.

Or select Eoin Reddan or Mike Ross for Leinster.

Sin é wrote:

rodders wrote:Hells Bells Keith Wood was on the interview panel.

Unbelievable!

Former Ireland captain with no vested interest in the game and who has experienced both the amateur and professional era?

Sounds good to me or do you think they should have had Humphreys interviewing the coach?

No I'd have had Davey Tweed....

Obviously if theres a 50/50 call Schmidt will go with the Leinster player. Thats human nature. Over time he'll build relationships with all the players.

The most important thing isn't so much team selection, its getting the team to play good rugby and Ireland have the players to do it.

Rumours doing the rounds that Schmidt signed on the dotted line this morning!

profitius wrote:Rumours doing the rounds that Schmidt signed on the dotted line this morning!

Now all he has to do is try and join the dots up

Sin é wrote:

rodders wrote:Hells Bells Keith Wood was on the interview panel.

Unbelievable!

Former Ireland captain with no vested interest in the game and who has experienced both the amateur and professional era?

Sounds good to me or do you think they should have had Humphreys interviewing the coach?

I wouldnt trust Woods judgement much. I believe that he was one of the main reasons that Gatland got sacked. Which I never agreed with. That said Im sure Schmidt will be revealed as the incumbent man in charge pretty soon.

RubyGuby wrote:

profitius wrote:Rumours doing the rounds that Schmidt signed on the dotted line this morning!

Now all he has to do is try and join the dots up

Stop it Ruby! Don't give him hints. He has to work it out himself.

Sin é wrote:How do you know that Anscombe doesn't have to justify tactics or selections. Humphreys is usually sitting very close to him during matches.

Ha ha ha! That's actually like someone doing a spoof Sin E post.

Don Alfonso wrote:

Sin é wrote:How do you know that Anscombe doesn't have to justify tactics or selections. Humphreys is usually sitting very close to him during matches.

Ha ha ha! That's actually like someone doing a spoof Sin E post.

I thought all Siné's posts were spoof posts, no?

Matt Williams in the IT makes a great point (amidst a fair amount of guff) Schmidt has never really been under pressure for Leinster, which is his first main head coach gig. He's been met with universal acclaim.

I'm excited for the start of the Schmidt era and I believe he is the right coach, but he and we are gonna learn a lot about Joe Schmidt over the next few years. With the transition we're in the middle of he's not going to work any miracles and we're a fickle lot- when things go badly all the axes to grind come out. There will be a honeymoon period and hopefully that comes with an upturn in the teams form to boot but it's only so long before the knives come out regardless of how successful he is and it'll be interesting to see how he deals with that.

For me, if Schmidt gets the job, I will judge him after the 2015 RWC. He gets two years regardless of results as far as my opinion goes, same with Kidney before him.

In the short term all we want to see from Ireland is some better quality rugby. If Schmidt produces that then he'll have the country behind him. Of course there'll always be one or two complaining that such and such a player isn't being picked but the majority will be behind him.

Schmidt was under pressure when he first took over Leinster. There were people in the media calling for his sack after a month in charge. Surprise, surprise George hook was leading the charge there! lol

profitius wrote:In the short term all we want to see from Ireland is some better quality rugby. If Schmidt produces that then he'll have the country behind him. Of course there'll always be one or two complaining that such and such a player isn't being picked but the majority will be behind him.

Schmidt was under pressure when he first took over Leinster. There were people in the media calling for his sack after a month in charge. Surprise, surprise George hook was leading the charge there! lol

That highlighted the critics weakness (all of them, not just the professional critics) more than it showed up Schmidt. It was totally unrealistic to think a man who had set out to reacquaint Leinster with their more creative ways, after Cheika's emphasis on brawn, would have just hit the ground running in the first part of his first season. I didn't like that period at all, it showed a very naive and impatient streak.

I agree with Notch. Two years is around the right kind of period to give Schmidt... a positive showing in the WC, positive attacking rugby that might only need personel choices to improve its cutting power. If that comes and we crawl back up the world rankings then I'll be in a happier place about Ireland.

profitius wrote:In the short term all we want to see from Ireland is some better quality rugby. If Schmidt produces that then he'll have the country behind him. Of course there'll always be one or two complaining that such and such a player isn't being picked but the majority will be behind him.

Schmidt was under pressure when he first took over Leinster. There were people in the media calling for his sack after a month in charge. Surprise, surprise George hook was leading the charge there! lol

There was a sizeable number of the Leinster support in close pursuit as well!

Sin é wrote:

profitius wrote:
Schmidt was under pressure when he first took over Leinster. There were people in the media calling for his sack after a month in charge. Surprise, surprise George hook was leading the charge there! lol

There was a sizeable number of the Leinster support in close pursuit as well!

...proves they don't just attack a coach because he's from Munster???

SecretFly wrote:

profitius wrote:In the short term all we want to see from Ireland is some better quality rugby. If Schmidt produces that then he'll have the country behind him. Of course there'll always be one or two complaining that such and such a player isn't being picked but the majority will be behind him.

Schmidt was under pressure when he first took over Leinster. There were people in the media calling for his sack after a month in charge. Surprise, surprise George hook was leading the charge there! lol

That highlighted the critics weakness (all of them, not just the professional critics) more than it showed up Schmidt. It was totally unrealistic to think a man who had set out to reacquaint Leinster with their more creative ways, after Cheika's emphasis on brawn, would have just hit the ground running in the first part of his first season. I didn't like that period at all, it showed a very naive and impatient streak.

I agree with Notch. Two years is around the right kind of period to give Schmidt... a positive showing in the WC, positive attacking rugby that might only need personel choices to improve its cutting power. If that comes and we crawl back up the world rankings then I'll be in a happier place about Ireland.

Actually, he said himself that he didn't have much to do and determined to make them the best passing side in Europe.

I'd expect big results in the next 12 months. I don't think he will last longer if he isn't successful. He won't get such an easy ride as he is getting from Leinster fans/media for a similar (poor) season that Leinster has this year.

I'd imagine that for his own sake reputation, he needs to win the Rabo.

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:

profitius wrote:
Schmidt was under pressure when he first took over Leinster. There were people in the media calling for his sack after a month in charge. Surprise, surprise George hook was leading the charge there! lol

There was a sizeable number of the Leinster support in close pursuit as well!

...proves they don't just attack a coach because he's from Munster???

They turn on everyone .....

Sin é wrote:I'd expect big results in the next 12 months.

You are something else... So you finally agree that we have the players to get "big results" now that we have a coach worth his salt? Hallelujah, Sin e has seen the light!

profitius wrote:In the short term all we want to see from Ireland is some better quality rugby.

Speak for yerself, I just want to see more Ulstermen in the team .....

wolfball wrote:

Sin é wrote:I'd expect big results in the next 12 months.

You are something else... So you finally agree that we have the players to get "big results" now that we have a coach worth his salt? Hallelujah, Sin e has seen the light!

I'll rephrase it for you ... "I'd expect big results in the next 12 months if he wants to hold onto his job."

rodders wrote:

profitius wrote:In the short term all we want to see from Ireland is some better quality rugby.

Speak for yerself, I just want to see more Ulstermen in the team .....

So do I

I want to see players from Sneem in Kerry given a fair chance

Sin é wrote:

wolfball wrote:

Sin é wrote:I'd expect big results in the next 12 months.

You are something else... So you finally agree that we have the players to get "big results" now that we have a coach worth his salt? Hallelujah, Sin e has seen the light!

I'll rephrase it for you ... "I'd expect big results in the next 12 months if he wants to hold onto his job."

So a big result within 12 months and then it can all go downhill from there, you'll still support him??

Afterall, Kidney had big results a few months after he took over, but from there in it all began to go pear shaped. Who was saying it was the players and not the coach right up until Kidney's last day?

So...I get the feeling your going to enjoy Schmidt's tenure more than his 'fans' are going to enjoy it, Sin. You are locked and loaded...ready for action Pay day.

RubyGuby wrote:I want to see players from Sneem in Kerry given a fair chance

That's it Ruby ..stand up for your plot of Irish soil!!!! We'll brutalise the world if all Provinces and Sneem stand together as one!

Ain't goin' to happen though

Sin é wrote:

rodders wrote:

profitius wrote:In the short term all we want to see from Ireland is some better quality rugby.

Speak for yerself, I just want to see more Ulstermen in the team .....

So do I