Joe Schmidt Irelands new coach???

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Well Joe has now said he would be interested in what the irfu have to say,IF, leinster release him. He sounds quiet keen. He is now the bookies favourite at 8/15. Interestingly enough, Paddy Power closed all bets on who is to become the next Ireland coach today for a few hours as a large number of people had decided to bet on Joe Schmidt. ?????????

If you believe the Sunday papers, then the job's is Schmidt's as long as he can work out a relationship structure with the IRFU and appoint his own team.

The blazers no doubt are going to be reluctant to give up their position and the idea that a professional coach has to account for his actions to a committee of amateurs (one a failed property developer, another a former liquidator) is a joke. Of course, Schmidt or whoever is appointed has to report to somebody - but not the current arrangement that is straight out of the 1980's.

As regards his back-up team if he gets the job - will Kiss, Smal and Foley all be there - or will Schmidt want to bring Jono Gibbes with him. Gibbes has played a huge part in Leinster's success in the past few years - and if Schmidt goes then I'd imagine Leinster will fight tooth and nail to keep Gibbes to work with whoever is Schmidt's replacement.

Conventional wisdom seems to be that if Schmidt is appointed then he'd want to keep Foley - not just for his forwards coaching ability but also to allay any fears down south that the coaching team will be too Leinsterish! He'll need a defense coash too so Kiss's job might be safe - but does he need Small as another forwards coach.

Best news I've heard about Irish rugby in 2 years.

Give him the job, let him bring in his own team (if that means sacking Kiss, Smal and Foley so be it).
Stop the blazers interferring and we just might get somewhere.

He should pick who he wants, when he wants.

Central contracts must be irrelevant to selection.

There's no need to sack Smal, Kiss etc. Their contracts are all expiring after the Summer tour. IRFU are seeking a coach to start next season.

geoff998rugby wrote:Give him the job, let him bring in his own team (if that means sacking Kiss, Smal and Foley so be it).
Stop the blazers interferring and we just might get somewhere.

He should pick who he wants, when he wants.

Central contracts must be irrelevant to selection.

+ 1000

geoff998rugby wrote:Give him the job, let him bring in his own team (if that means sacking Kiss, Smal and Foley so be it).
Stop the blazers interferring and we just might get somewhere.

He should pick who he wants, when he wants.

Central contracts must be irrelevant to selection.

Even if the blazers give him autonomy of choice...they can still influence his selections by holding and manipulating the purse strings for any other coaches Schmidt might mention.

I'd love him to take the job obviously. But I worry about him more than actually us. Ireland is a graveyard for coaches who came to it with high reputations. Ok, so Gatland is now Lions coach but he rebuilt his reputation with Wales, he didn't end on a high note with Ireland.

So, because I simply like him as a man even before the rugby bit, I hope the curse of Ireland leadership doesn't hit him. So, in that sense I say he should remain careful in a personal capacity. He should look for control over who gets picked to assist him but he should be clear about the budget that is on offer to fill those roles too. If he is concerned that the budget will control his choices then he should have another long think about whether its the right thing to do, for him.

Some would then say to me...what's so special about Joe? Why should he get things all his own way when other coaches didn't? I'd simply say, there is nothing special about him...other coaches should have been more demanding about who they wanted, and budgets for them too, when they were negotiating their own contracts.

SecretFly wrote:
I'd love him to take the job obviously. But I worry about him more than actually us. Ireland is a graveyard for coaches who came to it with high reputations. Ok, so Gatland is now Lions coach but he rebuilt his reputation with Wales, he didn't end on a high note with Ireland.

Gatland took us from bottom of the 6N to 2nd before EOS put the knoife between his shoulderblades .....

rodders wrote:

SecretFly wrote:
I'd love him to take the job obviously. But I worry about him more than actually us. Ireland is a graveyard for coaches who came to it with high reputations. Ok, so Gatland is now Lions coach but he rebuilt his reputation with Wales, he didn't end on a high note with Ireland.

Gatland took us from bottom of the 6N to 2nd before EOS put the knoife between his shoulderblades .....

He was faltering before EOS used his knife..... I for one wanted him gone because he was freezing out our backs..............where EOS resided..... So it was a personal battle perhaps but he was using a team to play it out....

SecretFly wrote:

rodders wrote:

SecretFly wrote:
I'd love him to take the job obviously. But I worry about him more than actually us. Ireland is a graveyard for coaches who came to it with high reputations. Ok, so Gatland is now Lions coach but he rebuilt his reputation with Wales, he didn't end on a high note with Ireland.

Gatland took us from bottom of the 6N to 2nd before EOS put the knoife between his shoulderblades .....

He was faltering before EOS used his knife..... I for one wanted him gone because he was freezing out our backs..............where EOS resided..... So it was a personal battle perhaps but he was using a team to play it out....

Agree SF - Gatland had lost the fans with some bizarre selections that cost Ireland results.

All the same, Gatland left Ireland on an upward curve in terms of results. They were better when he left than when he arrived. Kidney and O'Sullivan have left the team on downward curves. They've left on a sour note with a poor legacy.

If Schmidt can leave Ireland in a better state than he found them there's no reason to think it will hurt his future career prospects.

Notch wrote:All the same, Gatland left Ireland on an upward curve in terms of results. They were better when he left than when he arrived. Kidney and O'Sullivan have left the team on downward curves. They've left on a sour note with a poor legacy.

If Schmidt can leave Ireland in a better state than he found them there's no reason to think it will hurt his future career prospects.

That wouldnt be hard in all fairness given that we have just finished the 6N 2nd last.

I'd think any Ireland coach who finishes the Six Nations with just 1 win would be fearing for his job.

A steady reacquaintance with 4th to 6th (in IRB terms) is what I'd settle for... steady being the operative word. The fairground up/down rollercoaster has to stop.

So no, magic and miracles I wouldn't be expecting from Schmidt.... but if he felt we could pull off 3rd for a while, well, I'd certainly hang in for the ride But top end of Europe is the realistic goal.

I think the next coach coming in should be afforded the time to build for the 2019 RWC.

The short term is pretty fooked. We need to clear out dead wood and start building a team which can compete in 7 years time, priority for 2015 is not to make a*ses of ourselves again....

rodders wrote:I think the next coach coming in should be afforded the time to build for the 2019 RWC.

The short term is pretty fooked. We need to clear out dead wood and start building a team which can compete in 7 years time, priority for 2015 is not to make a*ses of ourselves again....

Agreed, rodders. We just have to nip that now customary 4 yearly meltdown in the bud.

But, depending on who shows up at the helm, I don't think all of the candidates would have such a longterm view as 2019. For example, I don't think Schmidt has the patience to be a 'transition' coach, teaching and introducing the new batch so that they'll progress when he's gone... (whereas Kidney had that patience and stated as much). I think Schmidt would be in a mood to try to kill two birds with one stone as I believe his time with us will be relatively short (if he's the guy picked)

Priority for Ireland should be to win their 2015 WC group.

Priority for Ireland should have been to win the RWC but we've left it too late to start putting a team together.

We're at least 2 years behind England and 3 behind Wales, maybe a year behind Scotland too.

rodders wrote:Priority for Ireland should have been to win the RWC but we've left it too late to start putting a team together.

We're at least 2 years behind England and 3 behind Wales, maybe a year behind Scotland too.

With any new coach it will take a while for the players to adapt to the change so not much can be done about that.

Leinster were quite poor for the first few months under Schmidt and then it all clicked. Whos to say that this wont happen with Ireland. We have lots of very young players with big match game time now.

England are fairly over rated. They play a very effective gameplan but it is quite one dimensional and limited. They have a nice platform but have a long way to go too. Time will tell if they progress much from here.

Wales are definitely the top team in the 6N but obviously we beat them in Cardiff this year so we cant be that far behind especially since Ireland Wales games tend to be quite close.

i don't think England are overrated at all. They have talent all over the place.

In fact I think (fear) we could be in for a golden period for English rugby.

i think we are the overrated ones. Apart form Henderson I don't really see much to get excited about. Madigan, Gilroy, Marshall, Jackson and Zebo are exciting talents for sure but compared to the other home nations aren't really anything special.

rodders wrote:i don't think England are overrated at all. They have talent all over the place.

In fact I think (fear) we could be in for a golden period for English rugby.

i think we are the overrated ones. Apart form Henderson I don't really see much to get excited about. Madigan, Gilroy, Marshall, Jackson and Zebo are exciting talents for sure but compared to the other home nations aren't really anything special.

England only have one world class player. Dan Cole. Robshaw and Tuilagi look on course to join that list too.

They have lots of pretty average players: Goode and Barritt for example.

They play very well as a team, they are well organised and diciplined but no idea how you think they have class all over the place.

rodders wrote:i don't think England are overrated at all. They have talent all over the place.

In fact I think (fear) we could be in for a golden period for English rugby.

i think we are the overrated ones. Apart form Henderson I don't really see much to get excited about. Madigan, Gilroy, Marshall, Jackson and Zebo are exciting talents for sure but compared to the other home nations aren't really anything special.

Nah thats Love sacks, the english 'young talent' usually regresses once the hype created by the rugby club beanheads spirals out of control, witness Ryan Lamb, Nick Abendanon, James Haskell, Danny Cipriani, Mike Brown, James Forester, Jordan Turner Hall and now most noticeably Owen Farell ( he just seems to kick his goals and try and start silly fights). All the Irish talent you mentioned, maybe bar Jackson, have already shown more promise than these mere pretenders. Funny even watching the challenge cup analysis last week with Greenwood saying ' Oh no, I've just realised how far behind the Premiership actually is to the other leagues.' The premiership may seem all the more glamorous than the admittedly depressing pro 12 matches with Leinster, Ulster, Munster and the other guys, but in terms of quality, the premiership players regularly pale in comparison to the Irish ones. However the Welsh team are an enigma.

I think schmidt is the man for the job and with the right staff we could be a very good side. Schmidt strikes me as a good club coach, day to day working with the players and it's clear to see how highly the Leinster players rate him, not only as a coach but as a person. Obviously he won't have as much time with the players as an international coach, because of this he might find it harder to implement his game plan and impose his personality on the team as easily as he has done with Leinster(granted it wasn't all roses with Leinster at the start)

England will not have a golden period with this squad. They are very effective at what they do, well drilled and well managed but lacking a little bit of quality and inventiveness.

Ireland, I feel, have quality but aren't well managed and lack a bit of steel.

Yees have been forewarned!

The English GS and RWC wins are coming!

Saracens for the Heino as well.

English GS and RWC!
not if they persist with their most ordinary and mediocre player as captain

Rodders, you forgot the amlin..... Oh wait

SecretFly wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:Give him the job, let him bring in his own team (if that means sacking Kiss, Smal and Foley so be it).
Stop the blazers interferring and we just might get somewhere.

He should pick who he wants, when he wants.

Central contracts must be irrelevant to selection.

Even if the blazers give him autonomy of choice...they can still influence his selections by holding and manipulating the purse strings for any other coaches Schmidt might mention.

If he doesn't get the backroom team he wants then he shouldn't take the job.

England are nothing special they are just well coached.

Other than Manu potential and Farrell's kicking they are very average in the backs and are positively poor on the wings.

Cole is good, Croft at his best is good, Parling decent and Launchbury has real potential but no stand out hooker, no stand out 8, no stand out 7.
Robshaw is a decent captain but compared to other 7's nothing special

I think Robshaw is outstanding.

Out wide they can afford to leave Christian Wade out.

geoff998rugby wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:Give him the job, let him bring in his own team (if that means sacking Kiss, Smal and Foley so be it).
Stop the blazers interferring and we just might get somewhere.

He should pick who he wants, when he wants.

Central contracts must be irrelevant to selection.

Even if the blazers give him autonomy of choice...they can still influence his selections by holding and manipulating the purse strings for any other coaches Schmidt might mention.

If he doesn't get the backroom team he wants then he shouldn't take the job.

Completely agree. If he doesn't get it on his terms then he should walk away. He doesn't have to play ball with these gormless, conservative suits. He should say this is what I can offer, this is what I am demanding, take me or leave me.

Of all the backroom staff the only one I think who would have a positive impact would be Kiss (as defense) I wouldn't want to see any of the others brought back.

rodders wrote:I think Robshaw is outstanding.

Out wide they can afford to leave Christian Wade out.

Yet include Ashton who lets face it isnt great at all and Brown who is a fullback and not a great winger. Think Wade may force his way in soon enough.

I would much rather have Zebo and Bowe than Brown and Ashton.

rodders wrote:I think Robshaw is outstanding.

Out wide they can afford to leave Christian Wade out.

Well there are 2 Welsh 7's who are better for a start

A great ball player and a perfect bench man but not the best in any one position

GunsGerms wrote:
I would much rather have Zebo and Bowe than Brown and Ashton.

So would I but I'd rather have Corbiesero and Cole than Bent and kilcoyne....

GunsGerms wrote:

rodders wrote:I think Robshaw is outstanding.

Out wide they can afford to leave Christian Wade out.

Yet include Ashton who lets face it isnt great at all and Brown who is a fullback and not a great winger. Think Wade may force his way in soon enough.

I would much rather have Zebo and Bowe than Brown and Ashton.

Anyone who thinks Wade should start did not see Wasps recent game - can't remember the opponents

Defensively inept and he was badly exposed.

I'll go further I'd take Zebo, Bowe and Trimble instead of him and his alround game is no better than Gilroy, Earls or McFadden

Ireland have much better depth on the wings than England

rodders wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:
I would much rather have Zebo and Bowe than Brown and Ashton.

So would I but I'd rather have Corbiesero and Cole than Bent and kilcoyne....

Why are you comparing England best LH and TH against Irelands 4th best TH and 2nd/3rd best LH

What you gain in attack with Wade, you lose defensively when he's in the team. He can improve his defence, he is a little bit on the small side though. I'm not sure he'll cut it at the top level but you'd never know.

rodders wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:
I would much rather have Zebo and Bowe than Brown and Ashton.

So would I but I'd rather have Corbiesero and Cole than Bent and kilcoyne....

I'd rather have Healy than Corbisero but Id rather Cole than Ross. All in all, though one of our traditional weaknesses our front row isnt much weaker then theirs.

geoff998rugby wrote:

rodders wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:
I would much rather have Zebo and Bowe than Brown and Ashton.

So would I but I'd rather have Corbiesero and Cole than Bent and kilcoyne....

Why are you comparing England best LH and TH against Irelands 4th best TH and 2nd/3rd best LH

Yea bit of a silly comparison, don't think I'd trade Healy for any other loose head, and as for england's reserve front row, Marler, Wilson and Vunipola, better than bent and kilcoyne but hardly exploding with talent

So Joe is interviewing for the job today.

He was part of the committee that suggested changes to how the IRFU was run, he suggested that the head coach having to report to an amateur panel on all team selections was backwards.

Question is, will he ask that these proposals are in place before he takes the job? Does he have that kind of leverage? I’d suggest he does…

5 euro says Schmidt and the IRFU can't come to a mutual agreement and the gig goes to Les Kiss.

Mickado wrote:So Joe is interviewing for the job today.

He was part of the committee that suggested changes to how the IRFU was run, he suggested that the head coach having to report to an amateur panel on all team selections was backwards.

Question is, will he ask that these proposals are in place before he takes the job? Does he have that kind of leverage? I’d suggest he does…

Im sure he will as of course he should. Will he get it though? Not sure.

I wonder exactly how much influence this panel have anyway. Is reporting to them just a formality and interferance and over ruling uncommon? Are they just a quango designed to give a few old boys a lunch out a few times a year? Does anyone know?

rodders wrote:5 euro says Schmidt and the IRFU can't come to a mutual agreement and the gig goes to Les Kiss.

I bet youre right. Schmidt was interviewed by RTE news last night and he basically said re his interview that himself and the IRFU have not seen eye to eye on a number of occasions it remains to be seen if they will be able to agree going forward or something like that. Reading between the lines in all his interviews it would appear that he isnt interested unless all his conditions will be met and I doubt that will happen.

Philip Browne was on newtalk last week saying that changes to the IRFU structure were being made, but will they be made in time is the question...

Mickado wrote:Philip Browne was on newtalk last week saying that changes to the IRFU structure were being made, but will they be made in time is the question...

Is there a podcast for that do you know? Which show was it on? Hooks or OTB?

Schmidt wants the job. I presume he'll just ask the IRFU to butt out of team selection and they'll agree since they're going to be making changes anyway.

GunsGerms wrote:

Mickado wrote:Philip Browne was on newtalk last week saying that changes to the IRFU structure were being made, but will they be made in time is the question...

Is there a podcast for that do you know? Which show was it on? Hooks or OTB?

It was an OTB podcast. Can't remember the exact date but it was a week or two weeks ago. It's the first item on the podcast so you should be able to tell pretty quickly if you've got the right one. If you can't find it let me know...

Thanks, will try to listen on Luas on way home from work.

profitius wrote:Schmidt wants the job. I presume he'll just ask the IRFU to butt out of team selection and they'll agree since they're going to be making changes anyway.

As someone said earlier... IRFU involvement. Is it (the obligatory meetings between coach and overlords) just an traditional convention irritant with no power? Or did they actually interfere in team selection? If they interfered with team selection then we need to know in what way and how mischevious it was/is?

We hear a lot about the IRFU amateur suits running rough shod over the make-up of Irish teams. We need to know just how much real pressure comes to bear on coaches. In short, journalists should have been doing the homework and telling us a few things. If Kidney is allowed take the burden of blame for Ireland of the last few years and he's not exactly master of his own domain, then journalists should have been saying so...in detail.

profitius wrote:Schmidt wants the job. I presume he'll just ask the IRFU to butt out of team selection and they'll agree since they're going to be making changes anyway.

I know the IRFU have a lot of influence on the management of the team but do they actually get a say in who plays?