Most overrated current international player.

by Maine man Wed 30 Nov 2016, 9:50 pm

First topic message reminder :

Just a bit of fun. Who do people think is the most overrated player currently. For me it's Will Skelton. Just don't see what he adds to the aussie team.

by TightHEAD Fri 02 Dec 2016, 1:08 pm

Ireland.

by Guest Fri 02 Dec 2016, 1:13 pm

Number 2

by Guest Fri 02 Dec 2016, 1:15 pm

But seriously, Mike Brown eh, tough buggar

Pushing and shoving and stuff

by R!skysports Fri 02 Dec 2016, 1:17 pm

You know this is not the Mike Brown thread ...right?

by Guest Fri 02 Dec 2016, 1:20 pm

Yes

But he's so tough he deserves his own thread

by nlpnlp Fri 02 Dec 2016, 1:27 pm

Good shout on Eben Etzebeth - one of those annoying players who pushes and pulls opposition players hoping for a reaction to get them carded, but never actually hits anyone. Deserving of the nickname 'handbags' or 'deck of' - you just know that if Danny Care or ano player stuck one on him he would go down like the proverbial ....

Give me an honest player like Martin Johnson or Bakkies Botha any day, at least they won't talk you to death.

by SecretFly Fri 02 Dec 2016, 1:29 pm

nlpnlp wrote:Good shout on Eben Etzebeth - one of those annoying players who pushes and pulls opposition players hoping for a reaction to get them carded, but never actually hits anyone. Deserving of the nickname 'handbags' or 'deck of' - you just know that if Danny Care or ano player stuck one on him he would go down like the proverbial ....

Give me an honest player like Martin Johnson or Bakkies Botha any day, at least they won't talk you to death.

Death being always the danger when Bakkies got into his stride.

by Brad71090 Fri 02 Dec 2016, 1:33 pm

ebop wrote:Mike Brown runs in like a hard man because he knows no one is going to knock him out. Back in the old days a guy like Mike Brown would get owned. Modern laws protect fools like Mike Brown.

Modern laws protect everyone .......

by Guest Fri 02 Dec 2016, 1:34 pm

Especially hard b'stards like Mike.....you know who

by No 7&1/2 Fri 02 Dec 2016, 1:35 pm

Why don't you start a new 'hilarious' thread then ebop. I'm assuming it's supposed to be humourous?

by BamBam Fri 02 Dec 2016, 1:42 pm

Forget Mike Brown, I bet my dad would beat your dad in a fight ebop

by **rodders** Fri 02 Dec 2016, 1:44 pm

Vainapolo, Youngs, Faletau, Lawes, Jonathon Davies, Itoje, Dan Lydiate, warburton, Dylan Hartley ...

...actually the whole Welsh and English squads bar Owen Farrell and Jamie Roberts, those guys are solid.

by SecretFly Fri 02 Dec 2016, 1:44 pm

Yes...enough about Brown. I don't know why that one developed legs the way that it did.

Let's discuss the merits and demerits of full backs instead.

by Guest Fri 02 Dec 2016, 1:47 pm

Mike who?

by Bind up Fri 02 Dec 2016, 1:49 pm

Majestic83 wrote:Ireland keith earls, Devin Toner

Is Keith Earls overrated? I would have thought the general consensus is he is a decent to very good winger, average centre (at best) and judging by his recent comments (re his red card) a few chips short of a happy meal!

by BamBam Fri 02 Dec 2016, 1:54 pm

SecretFly wrote:Yes...enough about Brown. I don't know why that one developed legs the way that it did.

Let's discuss the merits and demerits of full backs instead.

That England full back, whats his face? Always seems to think he's so bloody hard, no idea on his other attributes

by SecretFly Fri 02 Dec 2016, 1:56 pm

Bind up wrote:
Majestic83 wrote:Ireland keith earls, Devin Toner

Is Keith Earls overrated? I would have thought the general consensus is he is a decent to very good winger, average centre (at best) and judging by his recent comments (re his red card) a few chips short of a happy meal!

Finally becoming a die-hard bloody-minded Munster man. His Province love it. He won't now retire under the shadow of being too mannerly to be a real Munster legend. Wink

by Brad71090 Fri 02 Dec 2016, 2:00 pm

SecretFly wrote:Yes...enough about Brown. I don't know why that one developed legs the way that it did.

Let's discuss the merits and demerits of full backs instead.

Welsh cry babies

by SecretFly Fri 02 Dec 2016, 2:04 pm

?

Well....if you insist.

Scrap the fullback discussion. Let's move on to Welsh crybabies. This one has me intrigued. Over to you Brad Wink

by Brad71090 Fri 02 Dec 2016, 2:05 pm

SecretFly wrote:?

Well....if you insist.

Scrap the fullback discussion. Let's move on to Welsh crybabies. This one has me intrigued. Over to you Brad

All of em

by funnyExiledScot Fri 02 Dec 2016, 2:06 pm

George North must be pretty close to this award at the moment. We all know what he's capable of, at his best he's a truly world class player, but the gap between potential and reality is wide at the moment and yet he still creeps into most Lions XV proposals.

For England it's probably Manu Tuilagi. Perhaps harsh given recent injuries, but he's another who seems to be talked about in a Lions context despite it having been a while since he's delivered on the international stage.

I would have said Jamie Heaslip for Ireland had it not been for the last couple of months. Prior to that he seemed nothing more than solid to me, but he's really stepped up recently.

For Scotland I think it's fair to say that no-one really rates our players, principally down to our awful recent records against England, Wales and Ireland. We big up Jonny Gray and Stuart Hogg but I genuinely think these are very good players. The Scotland coaches overrate Gilchrist and Wilson, and I think we've perhaps been premature in declaring WP Nel and John Hardie top class international players - it would be good to see more from both players despite promising starts.

by Brad71090 Fri 02 Dec 2016, 2:08 pm

But back to the fullbacks...

I think Hogg is overrated, a great runner of the ball but his defensive positioning at times and control let him down but he has plenty of time to improve.

Great athlete.

by funnyExiledScot Fri 02 Dec 2016, 2:12 pm

That's not unfair. I don't think his positioning is particularly bad, but his decision making can go awry, principally because he seems to think that there's an attacking opportunity each and every time he touches the ball. At times he's given his teammates problems but biting off more than he can chew.

He can also be a bit petulant....

by SecretFly Fri 02 Dec 2016, 2:17 pm

Brad71090 wrote:But back to the fullbacks...

I think Hogg is overrated, a great runner of the ball but his defensive positioning at times and control let him down but he has plenty of time to improve.

Great athlete.

I think he's a tad nervy. Now his fast twitch muscle nerviness gives him his spark but with all players so highly strung it can make him jumpy and erratic. But I think if he was on a higher ranked side (let's say), I think that giddiness might be eased somewhat and he'd prove himself even better.

by GunsGermsV2 Fri 02 Dec 2016, 2:32 pm

I dont think Hogg is over rated. I think he is easily the best full back in the world after Smith. If he played for anyone else he would probably be rated higher.

by Brad71090 Fri 02 Dec 2016, 2:54 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:I dont think Hogg is over rated. I think he is easily the best full back in the world after Smith. If he played for anyone else he would probably be rated higher.

True but because he has freckles he cannot be the best FB in the world.

by Rory_Gallagher Fri 02 Dec 2016, 4:09 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:George North must be pretty close to this award at the moment. We all know what he's capable of, at his best he's a truly world class player, but the gap between potential and reality is wide at the moment and yet he still creeps into most Lions XV proposals.

For England it's probably Manu Tuilagi. Perhaps harsh given recent injuries, but he's another who seems to be talked about in a Lions context despite it having been a while since he's delivered on the international stage.

I would have said Jamie Heaslip for Ireland had it not been for the last couple of months. Prior to that he seemed nothing more than solid to me, but he's really stepped up recently.

For Scotland I think it's fair to say that no-one really rates our players, principally down to our awful recent records against England, Wales and Ireland. We big up Jonny Gray and Stuart Hogg but I genuinely think these are very good players. The Scotland coaches overrate Gilchrist and Wilson, and I think we've perhaps been premature in declaring WP Nel and John Hardie top class international players - it would be good to see more from both players despite promising starts.

Lions/CJ Stander.

by Gwlad Fri 02 Dec 2016, 8:04 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Quality player and if he winds up opposition fans so be it.

Yeah really worked for him and his team at RWC Laugh

by No 7&1/2 Fri 02 Dec 2016, 8:49 pm

No member of the England team can be quality as they went out in the group stage against 2 good teams? I think you're wrong.

by Cardiff Dave Fri 02 Dec 2016, 9:08 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:Toxteth O'Grady, USA.

He also has the stickiest bogies

Girly swot.

by Guest Fri 02 Dec 2016, 9:33 pm

AWJ man of the match tonight Run

by Cyril Fri 02 Dec 2016, 9:38 pm

Griff wrote:AWJ man of the match tonight

Most overrated current international player. - Page 4 73617669

by SecretFly Fri 02 Dec 2016, 9:46 pm

Cyril wrote:
Griff wrote:AWJ man of the match tonight

A man only has one red beating heart, AWJ.

Most overrated current international player. - Page 4 WRU-Social

by doctor_grey Sat 03 Dec 2016, 1:10 am

SecretFly wrote:
Cyril wrote:
Griff wrote:AWJ man of the match tonight

A man only has one red beating heart, AWJ.

You are undoubtedly correct. A man can truly have only one red beating heart. Most overrated current international player. - Page 4 51eACYyfVvL

by ChequeredJersey Sat 03 Dec 2016, 1:44 am

Gwlad wrote:Brown is a prat, plain and simple. He's a scrapper and no tough guy, his petulance gets him in strife and causes problems for his team.
Warburton is no tough guy either, he's the kid at school who never really got angry until one day he took someone's head off.

I have never, for Quins or England, seen Brown's petulance, if that's how you see it, cause problems for his team,or actually get him in strife, unless you have a bizarre definition of strife that contains the aforementioned Warburton scuffle that wasn't.

That might be what people perceive due to their own bias, and I have my bias as a big fan of Brown, and his attitude on and off the pitch, but in nearly 10 years of watching him for Quins I have not seen that happen

As for most overrated players, I don't really like slagging off players. If pushed, most of the players I thought were overrated have now stopped being rated (Lydiate for example), validating my opinion Smile

Brown is a flawed player, for sure, but he's not overrated in my opinion.

Also, who are we saying are doing the rating? Journalists? Coaches? Other posters here? Stephen the idiot Jones? Barnes? People who post on the England Rugby Facebook page or BBC Sport website or the Mail?

by SecretFly Sat 03 Dec 2016, 1:57 am

ChequeredJersey wrote:

Also, who are we saying are doing the rating? Journalists? Coaches? Other posters here? Stephen the idiot Jones? Barnes? People who post on the England Rugby Facebook page or BBC Sport website or the Mail?

I'd say we mean all of them, Chequered. I mean they of course will all rate each player differently as individual commentators, but I'm sure a general overview is achievable that we can then drop our own exalted and infallible opinions onto Smile

I think that's the way we've been doing it.

by Gwlad Sat 03 Dec 2016, 2:13 am

ChequeredJersey wrote:
Gwlad wrote:Brown is a prat, plain and simple. He's a scrapper and no tough guy, his petulance gets him in strife and causes problems for his team.
Warburton is no tough guy either, he's the kid at school who never really got angry until one day he took someone's head off.

I have never, for Quins or England, seen Brown's petulance, if that's how you see it, cause problems for his team,or actually get him in strife, unless you have a bizarre definition of strife that contains the aforementioned Warburton scuffle that wasn't.

That might be what people perceive due to their own bias, and I have my bias as a big fan of Brown, and his attitude on and off the pitch, but in nearly 10 years of watching him for Quins I have not seen that happen

As for most overrated players, I don't really like slagging off players. If pushed, most of the players I thought were overrated have now stopped being rated (Lydiate for example), validating my opinion

Brown is a flawed player, for sure, but he's not overrated in my opinion.

Also, who are we saying are doing the rating? Journalists? Coaches? Other posters here? Stephen the idiot Jones? Barnes? People who post on the England Rugby Facebook page or BBC Sport website or the Mail?

um it seems you're doing the rating. And Lydiate isn't over rated at all, he is just not where he was on the totem pole anymore, that's just the effect of style of play and others coming on, not his quality. He is now 4/5 in Wales back row hierarchy and yet is still a class player.

Brown, is a prat. And you have blinkers clearly but thats fine. As for not getting his team intro strife try watching the video on this thread. He managed to get his entire team pretty flustered in that game, totally unnecessary and would definitely have contributed to England losing that game. Like any sport you win the psychological battle the game is yours.

by BigTrevsbigmac Sat 03 Dec 2016, 4:57 am

http://www.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/12504/9224877/six-nations-englands-mike-brown-voted-player-of-the-tournament

Fans rating.

by Allty Sat 03 Dec 2016, 8:27 am

by uncle_nigel Sat 03 Dec 2016, 9:19 am

In England it has to be Launchbury and has been for a number of years.

by Cyril Sat 03 Dec 2016, 9:31 am

Why the new account mikey?

by uncle_nigel Sat 03 Dec 2016, 9:38 am

And Courtney Lawes. And Tuilagi.

by formerly known as Sam Sat 03 Dec 2016, 10:15 am

Don't think you can call Manu overrated. Sick note definitely. We don't know how good he is because he's never fit enough to show us.

Most overrated international is in my opinion Jonathan Davies. Nearly cost us the last Lions tour because he couldn't defend 3 on 3, bit on on a tackle that wasn't his to make and gifted Aus and easy try in the second test. Blows hot and cold for Wales but because the original Jonathan Davies has a massive crush on him and never takes off his Wales tinted specs it's always a love in on commentary.

by lostinwales Sat 03 Dec 2016, 10:27 am

Lawes was definitely overhyped (and therefore overrated) once upon a time. I don't think he's over/underrated any more.

Tuilagi did once dismantle NZ. Its a long long time ago and he has been a sicknote for a long time.

Launchbury- Interesting. Nice to have some reasoning there

by uncle_nigel Sat 03 Dec 2016, 10:38 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:Don't think you can call Manu overrated. Sick note definitely. We don't know how good he is because he's never fit enough to show us.

Most overrated international is in my opinion Jonathan Davies. Nearly cost us the last Lions tour because he couldn't defend 3 on 3, bit on on a tackle that wasn't his to make and gifted Aus and easy try in the second test. Blows hot and cold for Wales but because the original Jonathan Davies has a massive crush on him and never takes off his Wales tinted specs it's always a love in on commentary.

I'm not sure Jonathan Davies was entirely responsible for that but I do agree with you when saying he is overrated. Roberts was previously underrated standing next to this guy but even he's crap right now. You should have watched Scrum V last weekend, Peter Jackson gave Jiffy et al a dose of reality and it was beautiful.

On Launchbury, well you've noted the hype Lawes always received, just insert the name Joe Launchbury there and you have your explanation. I think he's a good player but I've found the hype around him to always have been quite extreme. England now have Kruis and Itoje playing the best rugby of their lives and he's still getting overrated. Launchbury and Lawes are a very good reserve lock pairing to call upon and that's as far as it goes for me. I expect Lawes will disappear from the international scene in a year or two, but Launchbury could grow into a better player.

by ChequeredJersey Sat 03 Dec 2016, 1:38 pm

Not really seen Launchbury hyped, so seems an odd statement but maybe I'm missing it

I've got one. Staff on Armitage is highly overrated in my opinion

by uncle_nigel Sat 03 Dec 2016, 1:44 pm

Yeah you are missing it just like you missed Brown's childish behaviour. Try opening both eyes.

by Gwlad Sat 03 Dec 2016, 2:56 pm

Mike brown does it again!! Gifts Aussie a try because he is a one man band.

by No 7&1/2 Sat 03 Dec 2016, 4:26 pm

You just ended up looking a plum there gwlad.

by lostinwales Sat 03 Dec 2016, 5:35 pm

Don't care how overrated or not any of the England team are at the moment. Some how they keep on winning.

Brown is a nutter, but he's our nutter....

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