Super Saturday, Game 1: Italy v Wales

First topic message reminder :

 
ITALY v WALES
Saturday 21 March 2015
KO: 13:30 (local)/12:30 (UK/Ireland)
Stadio Olimpico, Rome

Referee: Chris Pollock (NZR)
AR1: JP Doyle (RFU)
AR2: Luke Pearce (RFU)
TMO: Simon McDowell (IRFU)

***********************

A. Teams

ITALY

Luke McClean (Sale Sharks); Leonardo Sarto (Zebre Rugby), Luca Morisi (Benetton Treviso), Andrea Masi (London Wasps), Giovambattista Venditti (Zebre Rugby); Kelly Haimona (Zebre Rugby), Edoardo Gori (Benetton Treviso); 1 Michele Rizzo (Leicester Tigers), Leonardo Ghiraldini (Leicester Tigers, capt), Martin Castrogiovanni (RT Toulon), George Biagi (Zebre Rugby), Joshua Furno (Newcastle Falcons), Francesco Minto (Benetton Treviso), Mauro Bergamasco (Zebre Rugby), Samuela VUNISA (Zebre Rugby)

Replacements: Andrea Manici (Zebre Rugby), Alberto De Marchi (Sale Sharks), Dario Chistolini (Zebre Rugby), Quintin Geldenhuys (Zebre Rugby), Robert Barbieri (Leicester Tigers), Guglielmo Palazzini (Zebre Rugby), Luciano Orquera (Zebre Rugby), Enrico Bacchin (Benetton Treviso).

WALES

Leigh Halfpenny (Toulon); George North (Northampton Saints), Jonathan Davies (ASM Clermont Auvergne), Jamie Roberts (Racing Metro), Liam Williams (Scarlets); Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Rhys Webb (Ospreys); Rob Evans (Scarlets), Scott Baldwin (Ospreys), Aaron Jarvis (Ospreys), Luke Charteris (Racing Metro), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Dan Lydiate (Ospreys), Sam Warburton (Cardiff Blues, capt), Taulupe Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons).

Replacements: Ken Owens (Scarlets), Rhys Gill (Saracens), Scott Andrews (Cardiff Blues), Jake Ball (Scarlets), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Gareth Davies (Scarlets), Rhys Priestland (Scarlets), Scott Williams (Scarlets).

B. Head to Head

15 Played 15

2 Wins 12

12 Losses 2

1 Draws 1

19 Tries 49

12 Conversions 40

31 Penalties 45

4 Drop Goals 1

224 Points 463

LD,

Baldwin has had two great games and fully deserves to be there, Evans has been the form L/Head in Wales so for me that's not a problem. Jarvis, ok but we have to give these guys some game time.

The Italian front row is not all it was a few years ago.

bedfordwelsh wrote:LD,

Baldwin has had two great games and fully deserves to be there, Evans has been the form L/Head in Wales so for me that's not a problem.  Jarvis, ok but we have to give these guys some game time.

The Italian front row is not all it was a few years ago.

For me, the Italians have one of the best scrums in the 6N. Their forwards are just not as fit or as good at rugby as their counterparts, but when it comes to scrummaging they are like centurions. They will target this area as a way to get pens, thankfully their players cannot kick at goal for toffee, well they havent been anyway, I just hope they do not up their kicking game on Saturday. In saying that, Wales know what they need to do, so lets hope they go out and do it on Saturday.

How much do you need Lord?

SecretFly wrote:How much do you need Lord?

At least 50 points I would say, that would put massive pressure on England and Ireland to not only get the win, but win well.

With the likes of Rhys Gill, Jake Ball, Gareth Davies, Ken Owens on the bench i thought i would be happy but why the hell is Andrews in this team.

We CAN NOT go into the world Cup against a strong srummaging team like England with our first and second choice tightheads as Jarvis and Andrews now that it looks like Samson has a race against time to be fit.

Francis needs to come straight into the team or we have to start looking at other alternatives. Can anyone see what Gatland sees in Andrews? and Jarvis for that matter. Jarvis was a good scrummager 2 seasons ago but like Adam Jones, the new laws completely took his strength out of his game.

LORD - I'd say you were on the mark a few seasons ago, but I was very disappointed in the Italian scrum against France. Hopefully they won't rediscover their scrummaging mojo this weekend

What has Scott "the only prop I've ever seen in history get lifted out of a scrum by his opposite number and rendered useless despite the scrum battle still raging on" Andrews has on Gatland/Edwards? Is he MvcBrydes illegitimate love child? Is he Howleys bit on the side??

DOES ANYONE KNOW? I NEED ANSWERS?!

LordDowlais wrote:Just for the record, I thought the sheep picture was funny, I have no issues what so ever with being called a sheep sh*gger, or a taff, or whatever I am not all that precious, I just think most people on this forum need to seriously lighten up.

Nothing to do with lightening up. Pretty narrow minded mentality that. Unfortunately we live in a world where people can take offence at anything that gets said and your attitude of don't be precious won't get you very far.

Just because you're alright with it, doesn't mean everybody has to be. Personally I find it pretty outdated humour and I find being called a Taff pretty ignorant too.

Very happy with the squad. It's a shame Francis isn't on there and it's a bit of a shame that we couldn't find a place to give Hallam Amos another chance to aid his development (could do with an extra bench slot).

Heavy rain forecast for Rome on Saturday:

http://www.yr.no/place/Italy/Lazio/Rome/long.html

maestegmafia wrote:Anyone know the full story on Phillips omission?

Is it just so they can have a look at Gareth Davies now that he is fit???

could be that having given a pen for not straight he then decides to do the same thing again on our 5metre. Dolt.

Risca Rev wrote:Very happy with the squad. It's a shame Francis isn't on there and it's a bit of a shame that we couldn't find a place to give Hallam Amos another chance to aid his development (could do with an extra bench slot).

I was thinking the same. Amos has been creating tries as well as scoring them and while North's undeniably a good player, he's hardly been pulling up trees this Six Nations.

Gwlad wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Anyone know the full story on Phillips omission?

Is it just so they can have a look at Gareth Davies now that he is fit???

could be that having given a pen for not straight he then decides to do the same thing again on our 5metre. Dolt.

To be fair, if you watch the replay of that last scrum, you can clearly here the following;
MP - "Hey Barnesy, will you do me if I chuck it straight to my second row?"
WB - "of course I won't mate".
MP - "cheers Barnesy"
WB - "no worries"

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

Risca Rev wrote:Very happy with the squad. It's a shame Francis isn't on there and it's a bit of a shame that we couldn't find a place to give Hallam Amos another chance to aid his development (could do with an extra bench slot).

I was thinking the same. Amos has been creating tries as well as scoring them and while North's undeniably a good player, he's hardly been pulling up trees this Six Nations.

I would have loved to have seen a back 3 of Williams Halfpenny and Amos but it was always going to be a long shot. If Roberts had been ruled out I think Amos would have come onto the bench.

Agree on Francis I would have had him on the bench if nothing else but to get him capped.

Time for George north to have a big game

maestegmafia wrote:Time for George north to have a big game

I agree with that maes, Gatland has shown some faith when people like me thought he should have been dropped for Amos. He has looked better in the last 2 games and it's not all his fault the players in side him have to try and get the ball to him and give him the space.

We know what he can do when on top form but so do other teams and they always try and double tackle him so we have to try and work the overlaps give him and Williams one on one or mis match opportunities.

I see that Lee is now out for the season and may be struggling to make the RWC.
What are your tighthead options now and how do you rate them?

George Carlin wrote:I see that Lee is now out for the season and may be struggling to make the RWC.
What are your tighthead options now and how do you rate them?

GC,

For the sake of arguments let's rule A Jones out as he's retired, as for the rest well we currently have

Jarvis
Andrews
Francis (once he's capped)
Mitchell (injured at the moment)

As to how I would rate them well I don't really rate any of them though I don't think Jarvis has done that bad when he's played so far and you have to give these guys a chance.

I would have def put Francis on the bench this weekend and got him capped as all the reports I have read is that he's pretty special.

You forgot dual contracted Rhodri Jones

Yeah you're right Rev I did. Knew there was someone else at the Scarlets but couldn't think who and had forgotten about him totally.

Again I don't think he has ever really let us down when he's been called upon but like Andrews he doesn't get enough game time as the Scarlets see him as a L/Head where as Gatland uses him as a T/Head

bedfordwelsh wrote:

George Carlin wrote:I see that Lee is now out for the season and may be struggling to make the RWC.
What are your tighthead options now and how do you rate them?

GC,

For the sake of arguments let's rule A Jones out as he's retired, as for the rest well we currently have

Jarvis
Andrews
Francis (once he's capped)
Mitchell (injured at the moment)

As to how I would rate them well I don't really rate any of them though I don't think Jarvis has done that bad when he's played so far and you have to give these guys a chance.

I would have def put Francis on the bench this weekend and got him capped as all the reports I have read is that he's pretty special.

Only way Wales could win this championship if Ireland and England lose . wales will beat Italy but we far too many points behind .

bedfordwelsh wrote:Yeah you're right Rev I did.  Knew there was someone else at the Scarlets but couldn't think who and had forgotten about him totally.

Again I don't think he has ever really let us down when he's been called upon but like Andrews he doesn't get enough game time as the Scarlets see him as a L/Head where as Gatland uses him as a T/Head

He hasn't played loosehead for us for two seasons, we have Rob Evans and Phil John at loosehead who are better there than him. It looks like, when fit, Rhodri will be job sharing with Samson (both on NDC) at tighthead

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Yeah you're right Rev I did.  Knew there was someone else at the Scarlets but couldn't think who and had forgotten about him totally.

Again I don't think he has ever really let us down when he's been called upon but like Andrews he doesn't get enough game time as the Scarlets see him as a L/Head where as Gatland uses him as a T/Head

He hasn't played loosehead for us for two seasons, we have Rob Evans and Phil John at loosehead who are better there than him.  It looks like, when fit, Rhodri will be job sharing with Samson (both on NDC) at tighthead

SS,

I stand corrected I thought I read somewhere that Pivac still sees him as a L/Head. If him and Samson are going to job share then that's could as they should keep the pressure on each other.

jimmyinthewell68 wrote:Only way Wales could win this championship if Ireland and England lose . wales will beat Italy but we far too many points behind .

You're unfortunate in the way the games fall,I think if you played last you'd have a much better chance but as it is even if you put a big score on Italy then both Ireland and England get a crack at catching up.You have to dodge two bullets.

Gotta beat Italy first. Its very probably but its not a given.

Italy have scored more tries than anyone except England, last week's complete pile of poo or no. They also have a solid set piece and are quite capable of holding on to the ball for long periods even if they don't quite know what to do with it.

I don't give a feck if we finish 3rd on points difference - Let's face it who's going to be happier from their 4/5 wins should that transpire?

IRELAND: Probably not after the expectations they set themselves with 10 on the bounce and a well controlled win over England.
ENGLAND: The perennial almost GS winners who after humiliating Wales did not turn up against Ireland and were 13-10 down at home to the MIGHTY Scots
WALES: Came into the competition with many believing they would struggle with their French players and Captain hardly playing any rugby in 2 months, illustrated by a dreadful performance against a rampant England in Cardiff.

I'll take 3rd place with 4 wins right now thank you as to me it suggests that we have been the only team to move forward during the 6 Nations.

RubyGuby wrote:I'll take 3rd place with 4 wins right now thank you as to me it suggests that we have been the only team to move forward during the 6 Nations.

I do not believe any team is playing better now than they did earlier in the competition - including Wales.

Happy to disagree on that one Tiger

You are allowed your opinion. I would however be really interested as to what facets of play you believe Wales have improved in.

LondonTiger wrote:You are allowed your opinion. I would however be really interested as to what facets of play you believe Wales have improved in.

Do you watch much rugby?

After the England game all facets needed improving, no intensity, no direction no ball retention and/or going through the phases. It was dreadful.
Scotland, it improved with a more controlled performance, particularly in the first 1/4 of the 2nd half where we took the game away from Scotland, easily a 10 point margin as we continued to butcher a few opportunities through lack of composure. And I'm not buying the 3 point margin with the score in injury time - In essence we were better and Scotland is not an easy place to go as you know.
France, more control again and better set-piece play - Controlled the ball for large periods even when down to 14 men and a much better all round game.
Ireland - Take into context the fact that the game V England the week before was over after 10 mins this was a very good performance. We still butchered some try scoring opportunities but our set piece, particularly in the line out was one of the best I've ever seem from a welsh team. We missed Samson Lee big time but managed to survive that loss. Sexton was made to look average as was the much vaunted Murray and the French based players were up to speed especially Foxy Davies and Jamie in midfield, Charteris and Warburton who has not played much rugby.

So I believe we have improved incrementally throughout the tournament both individually and as a team. Therefore a 15-20 point win with a lot of control would do me fine.

RubyGuby wrote:

I'll take 3rd place with 4 wins right now thank you as to me it suggests that we have been the only team to move forward during the 6 Nations.

Well glad you're throwing in the towel early, Ruby.

Right - it's now between us and England for the Consolation prize of the No Slam Cup!

I'd take 2nd. For the very reason Ruby mentioned. 3rd would feel a little off....but still another bloody good season considering we'd can't find the PLAY button on the Good Rugby panel.

2nd it'll be for you boys if you can beat those plucky Scots - Congratulations - Seems sad that the 6 nations is starting to come down to whoever plays Italy at home. There's some truth in that though.

How about deciding it with the games against each of those tied with each other based on points for and against and then trys. I think you boys just pip us on that with us pipping England

RubyGuby wrote:

France, more control again and better set-piece play - Controlled the ball for large periods even when down to 10 men and a much better all round game.

You can always tell when a football fan ventures onto the rugby boards...

Cyril wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:

France, more control again and better set-piece play - Controlled the ball for large periods even when down to 10 men and a much better all round game.

You can always tell when a football fan ventures onto the rugby boards...

Nice One Cyril - Did you miss the 3 yellows and 2 reds against France

bedfordwelsh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Time for George north to have a big game

I agree with that maes, Gatland has shown some faith when people like me thought he should have been dropped for Amos.  He has looked better in the last 2 games and it's not all his fault the players in side him have to try and get the ball to him and give him the space.

We know what he can do when on top form but so do other teams and they always try and double tackle him so we have to try and work the overlaps give him and Williams one on one or mis match opportunities.

I don't think that Italy have shown a smart kicking game with any of the Flyhalves they have selected this year. With a stingy defence like Wales, Italy will be forced to look at other options. Kicking badly would creat great opportunities for our back three to get some ball, hopefully in space.

I would really like to see some positivity in our backline play from set piece, play that doesn't involve crash ball.

We scored two great tries against Fiji with smart backline inter passing, training ground manoeuvres put into practice.

Gosh...no Parisse and Bergamasco again with a blue shirt on...a slaughter on the way

for the record, Italy team:
1) Rizzo
2) Ghiraldini
3) Castrogiovanni
4)Biagi
5) Furno
6) Minto
7) Bergamasco
8) Vunisa
9) Gori
10) Haimona
11) Venditti
12) Morisi
13) Masi
14) Sarto
15) Mclean

too many injuries to stand Wales' challenge...

What Italy could do with having another Diego Domingues. They have not had a decent outside half for over a decade now, saying that, the Italian pack looks handy.

LondonTiger wrote:You are allowed your opinion. I would however be really interested as to what facets of play you believe Wales have improved in.

our lineout - both in attack and defence

I knew the Irish would press their case behind the scenes!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We've been awarded a replay against Wales!!!!  And they won't have Home Advantage.  It's to be held in Italy.   The authorities finally saw sense:  Good show.  Let's see you try to do that trick twice in a row now, Wales

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/mar/19/wales-six-nations-trophy-howley

I thought Jarvis looked really shaky at scrum time against Ireland. However he should be confident up against Rizzo.

Yeah, Jarvis really isn't a great scrummaging prop. Although I thought he went well when he came on v France. Was expecting the scrum to collapse as the French brought on those 3 that had done so well the week before.

I think he is an LH converted to TH isn't he? I thought he was OK in the loose. Did much more (e.g. carrying) than Adam Jones would have. Swings and roundabouts I suppose, but I'd choose scrummaging over loose play as priority for a prop. Not that I'm saying to bring Adam Jones back. His last few outings at International level were pretty penalty strewn if memory serves so I doubt he'd be any better (or any less likely to concede penalties than Jarvis) this time around.

I am hoping Wales go out, and focus on what they need to do, I would like to think that Wales will win this and win it well, they know what they need to do, and for me the players and coaches are proffesional enough to pull it off.

Assuming Wales establish a lead and Italy start to tire - big assumptions, I know - the Welsh bench includes players who could produce a few tries in the last quarter of the match (G.Davies, Priestland, S.Williams, Tipuric, Owens).

optimist wrote:Assuming Wales establish a lead and Italy start to tire - big assumptions, I know - the Welsh bench includes players who could produce a few tries in the last quarter of the match (G.Davies, Priestland, S.Williams, Tipuric, Owens).

Pretty much +1 to all that.

A back line of Cawdor, Priest, Sanj, Scotty, Foxy, George and 1/2p against tired legs should be lethal

Can you explain the Cawdor nickname please SS?! Heard it a few times now!

Italy lose Parisse - but gain Castro!

Parisse usually last 85 minutes of every game - Castro last's about 45, if fully fit!

The Gods are cruel.