Froch-Kessler II - Fight On, Official!

First topic message reminder :

Eddie Hearn pulled a late one in the office last night with Sauerland and the pair have come up trumps.

Eddie Hearn ‏@EddieHearn
FROCH v KESSLER 2 IS ON! DATE AND VENUE ANNOUNCED AT PRESS CONFERENCE SOON @Carl_Froch Full story here:

http://www.matchroomboxing.com/news/froch_vs_kessler_ii_is_on.htm

Eddie Hearn ‏@EddieHearn
An honour to make this fight for @Carl_Froch its everything he deserves..get behind the Cobra! Thanks to @SauerlandBros for their vision

WAR!!!!!!!!!!

Bakhtin at 3 with ring and Darchinyan fighting out of the States but to be honest its not like you'd pick a stand put right now from the 4 of them...who knows maybe they will fight and then we get to know who is European best at the weight.
Just like well know after the Froch Kessler fight.

Stretching a point to have Darchinyan as an Armenian after all these years of boxing as a fair dinkum Aussie (if such a thing exists). Stretching a point to call Armenia part of Europe come to that, in my opinion, but there I may be getting a little more political than is wise.

Believe it or not Captain, Darchinyan has always been classed as an Armenian fighting out of Australia. Every boxing publication has him as Armenian and every governing body has him as Armenian.

Try reading the Melbourne Age or the Sydney Morning Herald, Ghosty! I know what you mean, but in any case, Armenia, miles to the east of what is generally demarcated as the Asian part of Turkey shouldn't count as European, IMO. Of course, the EU will fall over themselves to embrace a Christian nation, while finding reasons to reject the much sounder claims of Turkey, but such is life.

Diggers wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Diggers wrote:So why can't a European fight be between two world class fighters. Will the winner be the best in Europe...yes. Will he be the best in the world ....no.
And whoever loses may well still be the third best in the works but they'll also be the second best in Europe.

Well, what would you say if Froch was from the US, or Kessler Ghanian? Still respective #2 & #3 in the world, couldn't be a Euro belt/fight - so what would it be?

If my auntie was etc etc, they are both European and this fight decides who is the best current SMW in Europe...and also probably the second best in the world.
I'm not sure why boxing gets so snotty about the word Europe, never used to be the case and if people weren't so obsessed with making fights "world level" , whatever that really means, maybe we wouldn't have so many stupid meaningless title fights and bauble belts.

Doesn't answer my question, at all, though does it?

AlexHuckerby wrote:Pascal.

Sorry...

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Diggers wrote:

TopHat24/7 wrote:

Diggers wrote:So why can't a European fight be between two world class fighters. Will the winner be the best in Europe...yes. Will he be the best in the world ....no.
And whoever loses may well still be the third best in the works but they'll also be the second best in Europe.

Well, what would you say if Froch was from the US, or Kessler Ghanian? Still respective #2 & #3 in the world, couldn't be a Euro belt/fight - so what would it be?

If my auntie was etc etc, they are both European and this fight decides who is the best current SMW in Europe...and also probably the second best in the world.
I'm not sure why boxing gets so snotty about the word Europe, never used to be the case and if people weren't so obsessed with making fights "world level" , whatever that really means, maybe we wouldn't have so many stupid meaningless title fights and bauble belts.

Doesn't answer my question, at all, though does it?

Where have I said other fights between whatever nationalities can't happen ? I'm simply saying this one happens to have a European context and can be defined as such. In real terms beating Bute verified Froch as the best in the Commonwealth, it didn't make him a world champion, just a holder of a belt.
They can still be world class fights and fighters.
In any sensible sport being British, Compnwealth and European champion with such tough competition would be commended, in boxing its more important to hold a bauble belt instead seemingly.

Nice avoiding the question again. Are you Az in diguise?

By virtue of the relative fluke of these two fighters just happening to be born on the same continent you have deemend this a 'European fight'. And as anyone knows 'European level' is below 'World level' which is why up and coming fighters like Groves, DeGale, Frampton etc are considered 'European level', irrespective of the strength of competition at that level.

What sort of fight was Pac-JMM then? A Philipino versus a Mexican held in USA where the #1 figher PBF heralds from.

What part of I didn't say other fighters couldn't fight each other didnt you get ?
I'm giving a context to this particular fight, a fight between two Europeans, its really not that complicated.

Also with pointing out in your scenario there Pacman hasn't actually lost to PBF, so there is room for conjecture as to who would win...or at least was before Manny lost again. Not so in Froch, Kessler and Ward case. So not an exact line for like.

Diggers wrote:What part of I didn't say other fighters couldn't fight each other didnt you get ?
I'm giving a context to this particular fight, a fight between two Europeans, its really not that complicated.

You haven't merely said this is a fight between two Europeans though, have you? That would be like saying it's a fight between two men. Or a fight between two white guys. Yeh, well done, thanks for pointing that out, I'd not realised before.

You've said this is a "European title fight" and a "best in Europe fight". This is a misrepresentation founded on the fluke that they both happen to hail from Europe. Hence my question, if one of them wasn't from Europe how would you classify the fight? Which you've still be unable to answer, presumably because it exposes your fallacious argument.

Seemed pretty straightforward your post to me Diggers..

I'll answer your question, if they weren't european you'd describe it as the 'the battle to decide the second best super middleweight fighter in the world, unless froch wins by close decision in which case it'll be open to debate and they might need a decider'. Or you could call it, 'unifiying two of the three major belts but not the one held by the top guy'. Back in the good old days it might have simply been a world title eliminator. Maybe European title's not so bad.


Sorry tophat, diggers like you, likes a good argument, but you're the one doing an az impression on this thread. Let it go fella! He's not calling them euro level. He's saying it decides who's the best in Europe. Which it does. He also said that they are the second and third best fighters in the world. If froch fought groves it would decide who was the best in Britain. It might even be marketed as the Battle of Britain. Doesn't make them Brit level. You're the one who introduced the term and is getting hot under the collar about 'levels'.

Don't put Az down....

Ill defo be up for the Kessler vs Froch rematch and will wear said customized T-Shirt.

Ill be going with my brother (non 606 member) so if you see my amazingly bright "mobilemaster8" t-shirt, come and have a beer on me!

(So long as its NOT in the arena as you have to mainly mortgage the pints you buy)

Not sure there is anything called "Brit level" these days Milky with the plethora of world belts on offer!!

Half the reason people don't fight for Brit titles is that they are probably harder to win than a WBO title...............in some cases.

Think the "British level" distinction has long since passed my old friend..

Cheers Milky, glad someone gets it.

Debatable TRUSS....

Well then change the habit of a lifetime and debate something..

You might surprise yourself..

Fair point mate, been replaced by WTF intercontinental interim spaghetti level

I love Italian food.....

The oyster does a great Meatballs in garlic dish....

By Diggers logic, was Wlad vs Haye a European fight and not really a world fight? If so, can I get my money back? Answer the second question first!

bhb001 wrote:By Diggers logic, was Wlad vs Haye a European fight and not really a world fight? If so, can I get my money back? Answer the second question first!

Depends if you see Vlad or Vitali as the better fighter.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I love Italian food.....

The oyster does a great Meatballs in garlic dish....

Are the meatballs still attached?

milkyboy wrote:I'll answer your question, if they weren't european you'd describe it as the 'the battle to decide the second best super middleweight fighter in the world, unless froch wins by close decision in which case it'll be open to debate and they might need a decider'. Or you could call it, 'unifiying two of the three major belts but not the one held by the top guy'. Back in the good old days it might have simply been a world title eliminator. Maybe European title's not so bad.


Sorry tophat, diggers like you, likes a good argument, but you're the one doing an az impression on this thread. Let it go fella! He's not calling them euro level. He's saying it decides who's the best in Europe. Which it does. He also said that they are the second and third best fighters in the world. If froch fought groves it would decide who was the best in Britain. It might even be marketed as the Battle of Britain. Doesn't make them Brit level. You're the one who introduced the term and is getting hot under the collar about 'levels'.

Yeh, you're right, I can be like a dog with a bone sometimes. Although the 'Az' impression comes from not answering a direct question but squirming around the answer - something I'm not guilty of on this thread, however petulant I've behaved. Would also note that the bits I put in "quotes" were exactly that and the very first mention of anything to do with Europe (beyond geographical discussion over venue location) was Diggers post at 7.19pm last night which was the first of the two quotes I provided.

Happy to accept it's a fight that decides who the best SMW in Europe is, can't deny that as it's a fact, a blatantly obvious one. Also decides the best white SMW but that's equally irrelevant. The tone was clear and it demeaned the level of this fight, that's what I took umbrage with. It suggests the winner is only the top dog of Europe, which under-sells the significance of the outcome, what it determines is the second best in the world - basically the best SMW boxer outside of Oakland, California.

The British title seems to have increased in value over the last few years.....

Coinciding with the demise of the world belt..

Squirming my backside. My point was made perfectly clearly many times , but when it's not what someone e wants to hear then that's a bit irrelevant.
Perfectly pleasant debate though.

I had Kessler winning by two or three rounds. Froch was not active enough early and allowed Kessler off the hook after doing some of his best work. I remember a hard right cross from Froch particularly, where he just backed off and wrote a song about how good a punch it was instead of going in and capitalizing on it.

This time it will be different. Froch is now attacking in ambush fashion. Holding his ground and waiting for the opportunity to pounce. This could be very good for winning rounds v Kessler. Especially in England, where the 50-50 rounds will presumably go to Froch

50-50 fight for me, I actually thought Frochs boxing was awful last time out, no real footwork, he just jumped in and bullied the guy who seemed pretty terrified.
But then again maybe that's because he could get away with it but if he tries that against Kessler I think he'll be in trouble.

Diggers wrote:50-50 fight for me, I actually thought Frochs boxing was awful last time out, no real footwork, he just jumped in and bullied the guy who seemed pretty terrified.
But then again maybe that's because he could get away with it but if he tries that against Kessler I think he'll be in trouble.

I think Ward had a lot of success diving on Kessler and then smothering him. NOt saying Froch can do that with the same footspeed and slight of hand as Ward, not to mention his head, but he can certainly take somethign from it.

Froch can't just go to war. Will be interesting to see how this goes.

Prob end up a total war tbh, ha

TopHat24/7 wrote:

milkyboy wrote:I'll answer your question, if they weren't european you'd describe it as the 'the battle to decide the second best super middleweight fighter in the world, unless froch wins by close decision in which case it'll be open to debate and they might need a decider'. Or you could call it, 'unifiying two of the three major belts but not the one held by the top guy'. Back in the good old days it might have simply been a world title eliminator. Maybe European title's not so bad.


Sorry tophat, diggers like you, likes a good argument, but you're the one doing an az impression on this thread. Let it go fella! He's not calling them euro level. He's saying it decides who's the best in Europe. Which it does. He also said that they are the second and third best fighters in the world. If froch fought groves it would decide who was the best in Britain. It might even be marketed as the Battle of Britain. Doesn't make them Brit level. You're the one who introduced the term and is getting hot under the collar about 'levels'.

Yeh, you're right, I can be like a dog with a bone sometimes. Although the 'Az' impression comes from not answering a direct question but squirming around the answer - something I'm not guilty of on this thread, however petulant I've behaved. Would also note that the bits I put in "quotes" were exactly that and the very first mention of anything to do with Europe (beyond geographical discussion over venue location) was Diggers post at 7.19pm last night which was the first of the two quotes I provided.

Happy to accept it's a fight that decides who the best SMW in Europe is, can't deny that as it's a fact, a blatantly obvious one. Also decides the best white SMW but that's equally irrelevant. The tone was clear and it demeaned the level of this fight, that's what I took umbrage with. It suggests the winner is only the top dog of Europe, which under-sells the significance of the outcome, what it determines is the second best in the world - basically the best SMW boxer outside of Oakland, California.

No worries mate, we all get like that... and diggers is a lover of healthy debate, I'm sure he was expecting a response or two.

I like Froch, when he's not talking about himself... warrior blah, natural talent blah, warrior warrior. I actually think, like hatton he has probably over achieved on his talent because of his heart and its highly commendable that he's taken so many tough fights and so many on the road. However (you knew there was but coming), we get thread after thread from emore on how froch is the second coming, but the guy isn't the best in his division, and may not even be second best. So i can see diggers point, that people are maybe getting a bit carried away.

But hey it's january, its a quiet month, and a cracking fight has been announced, so lets just be happy about that and not worry too much, about who or what it proves!

Milky, the voice of reason , who'd have thought it eh.

Diggers wrote:Squirming my backside. My point was made perfectly clearly many times , but when it's not what someone e wants to hear then that's a bit irrelevant.
Perfectly pleasant debate though.

Squirming was maybe a little harsh, but referred to your continuing refusal to answer a direct question!

Agree re the pleasant debate though, nice to have one without people having to resort to hostilities and belittling (which admittedly I have been guilty of myself )

All good clean fun and should be a cracking scrap.

Diggers wrote:Milky, the voice of reason , who'd have thought it eh.

I used to work for a company called mediator diggers. They called me the peacemaker. Actually they called me quite a few things, most of which wouldn't get past the swear filter

I thought they just called you into the office to say goodbye ?