Ideas to improve Pro 12 attendance.

First topic message reminder :

Theres are lots on comments on other threads about the attendance of Pro 12 games, partically in Wales, and I thought that its easy to give out but what can be done to improve it?

This is going to be different in each country, and also for each team.

Your ideas please.

Please keep them realistic, as tickets for same price as the cinema isn't going to be finicialally viable, and no WUMS please.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

We will just have to trust our clubs...

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

BoyneRFC wrote:

But to get back on topic, this generation is lost to regional rugby

Dowlais, you really must think I am disagreeing with you for the sake of it. I am not. I just think that this is another excuse.

15 years ago (even 10), anyway, just before the league was set up (shock upcoming), regional or provincial rugby didnt really exist in Ireland either.

I think the impression out there is that provincial rugby was alive and kicking back in the 60's. It wasn't.

Interpros were played quite usually on from of 3 men and their dog. As every Irish poster and anyone in the know will attest to.

So there were no provincial sides playing in top flight competitions prior to 03-04 season?

Can you explain these

http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/matchcentre/leinster_rugby.php?section=3

http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/matchcentre/munster_rugby.php?section=3

http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/matchcentre/ulster_rugby.php?section=3

http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/matchcentre/connacht.php?section=3

Or possibly these

http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/matchcentre/table.php?includeref=2272&season=2001-2002

http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/matchcentre/table.php?includeref=2272&season=2002-2003

The provinces did have a head start!

Jeez you really are a pedantic bunch !!

I said 10 or 15 years ago... before the creation on the league. Read back. You might have saved yourself some time in digging up useless info I have already accepted.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

Portnoy wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:The true average crowd for Ulster last season in thr Pro12 was

8412 putting them above Blues and Ospreys.

Statsbunker = waste of space lads

Source?

http://www.statbunker.com/rugby/btb/index.php?PL=competition&CompID=366&statType=home_Att - a quick glance will tell you they're incomplete, no data for a couple of teams and only 2 matches for several others

In fairness they have fixed the old error in the 2011 Super XV - last year when I looked at that table they'd credited the Stormers with having a 130,000 gate (I even posted it on a thread at the time). Not bad for a 30,000 seat stadium

However I can't be more effusive in my apologies for quoting statbunker as a source of rabo stats. I should have delved further into the source of the source data.

Mind you, if I carried my life on that way, I'd spend my life reading the small print of everything I was buying/considering buying and comparing all those. And never get time to talk rugby.

Anyway -

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Swiped from another thread

Mickado wrote:

Team	Location	Average Attn.
Aironi	Stadio Zaffanella	3503
Blues	CCS	7811
Connacht	Sportsground	4653
Dragons	Rodney Parade	6098
Edinburgh	Murrayfield	4135
Leinster	Aviva Stadium	48365
Leinster	RDS	15306
Leinster Total		18312
Munster	Musgrave Park	7896
Munster	Thomond Park	19722
Munster Total		15421
Ospreys	Liberty Stadium	7686
Scarlets	Parc y Scarlets	9006
Treviso	Stadio di Monigo	3900
Ulster	Ravenhill	8386
Warriors	Firhill	4016

Its not looking to bad in comparison to Ulster for the Welsh regions, I guess we just like to bitch and moan about how bad things are.

Leinster and Munter apart, the welsh have some of the better attendences.

Considering that South Wales is surely the poorest rugby supporting area in the uk/Ireland and we are in a recession I'd be surprised if anything can be done to raise attendences other than increase the job market and raising the minimum wage.

Has anyone looked at attendences compared to localised economic growth? Or public transport system?

Most people I see at rugby matches are of a mature age, rather than a family age. A day out with the kids to watch rugby is a treat not a weekly viability.

Right, been researching this for a couple of hours. Unbelievably, there have actually been a few academic papers on the impact of TV on match attendances (across various sports including rugby league). They cost up to £60 to buy though.

books.google.co.uk/books?isbn=1843766086

From the brief summaries available on Google - it suggests that there isn't much of an impact, if any.

If the game isn't on telly people generally watch something else instead - rather than go to the game.

Without sounding too pedantic... who funded these studies Cas???

I know the sinical researcher inside has come out!!

thebluesmancometh wrote:Without sounding too pedantic... who funded these studies Cas???

I know the sinical researcher inside has come out!!

Hang on - I'll get hold of the universities and find the authors email addresses to ask them....jeez, more demanding than Dowlais.

Cas - The arguement with the tv was not that by showing away games the home stadiums will fill. It was about
a) show games with full stadiums (not necessary big attendances, a full stand of 4k looks better than a half full stand of 6k). Also if you can show crowds enjoying a good atmosphere etc it does make it more attractive to attend.
b) reward people who go to home games. At the moment it seems if you go to home games you only get to see your side playing on tv once in a blue moon, which makes time drag between matches.
c) it would stop people who have axes to grind being aware of if the attendance was good or not.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Cas - The arguement with the tv was not that by showing away games the home stadiums will fill. It was about
a) show games with full stadiums (not necessary big attendances, a full stand of 4k looks better than a half full stand of 6k). Also if you can show crowds enjoying a good atmosphere etc it does make it more attractive to attend.
b) reward people who go to home games. At the moment it seems if you go to home games you only get to see your side playing on tv once in a blue moon, which makes time drag between matches.
c) it would stop people who have axes to grind being aware of if the attendance was good or not.

I know. But finding out whether televising games affects attendances is more interesting.

BoyneRFC wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

BoyneRFC wrote:

But to get back on topic, this generation is lost to regional rugby

Dowlais, you really must think I am disagreeing with you for the sake of it. I am not. I just think that this is another excuse.

15 years ago (even 10), anyway, just before the league was set up (shock upcoming), regional or provincial rugby didnt really exist in Ireland either.

I think the impression out there is that provincial rugby was alive and kicking back in the 60's. It wasn't.

Interpros were played quite usually on from of 3 men and their dog. As every Irish poster and anyone in the know will attest to.

So there were no provincial sides playing in top flight competitions prior to 03-04 season?

Can you explain these

http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/matchcentre/leinster_rugby.php?section=3

http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/matchcentre/munster_rugby.php?section=3

http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/matchcentre/ulster_rugby.php?section=3

http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/matchcentre/connacht.php?section=3

Or possibly these

http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/matchcentre/table.php?includeref=2272&season=2001-2002

http://www.rabodirectpro12.com/matchcentre/table.php?includeref=2272&season=2002-2003

The provinces did have a head start!

Jeez you really are a pedantic bunch !!

I said 10 or 15 years ago... before the creation on the league. Read back. You might have saved yourself some time in digging up useless info I have already accepted.

Not wanting to gatecrash your party, but.....

I think what a lot of Welsh fans feel when comparisons are made with Ireland is that the Irish pronices themselves have existed for a long, long time. Not necessarily the rugby, but the province 'names'. People live and die for their province, according to some on here. I think I remember Stag saying that provincial rugby was more important to him than the national team. Fair enough, and awesome from a province point of view. Much easier to market something that has existed for a long time, people feel a collective passion for, etc. In Wales the regions are nothing, they are made up. They do not exist outside of rugby. You don't have passengers from other sports coming over to support their province in rugby just because it's their province, e.g. Ospreys football fans, or Ospreys cricket fans, etc. A day out for Ospreys fans is not a day out for anyone but a small band of rugby fans, if you get what I mean? The only one of the Welsh regions that might represent anything approching a province is 'Gwent Dragons', but event Gwent doesn't exist anymore since it was disbanded in the 90's into smaller unitary authorities. It's much harder to market a made up thing with no history, no defined geographical boundaries (apart from imaginary), no presence elsewhere such as in goverment, policy, sport, tourism, etc. Not making excuses, but just suggesting a reason for the very slow start to the growth of these teams.

Along with this is the fact that, while we do generally love rugby and sport in Wales, we're perhpas not the greatest 'attenders' of sport. Doesn't mean that we're not as passionate or knowledgeable, or that Rugby isn't our national sport just because 2 football clubs get more support. It's just different here. Just as college sport attendance is big in America but rubbish in the UK (not sure about Ireland); it's not that we hate sport, it's just that we're different. Not being big attenders of sport does have problems with raising funds, etc. But I just don't think as a nation we're as keen to stand/sit at a live game as they are in other nations. Who knows why!

I think overall a number of factors come into it, and I am a believer that population must impact it (I know a lot on here don't agree!). I just think that, in crude terms, if a nation has a population of 3 million and another has 30 million then to attract the same size crowd for a rugby match requires 10 times more 'buy in' from the population of the smaller country. Now I know that there are other factors such as wealth (smaller country may be much richer), culture (smaller country may have the sport as it's 'national sport' whereas the others don't like it, etc.) politics ('I feel soooooo disenfranchised' vs 'I would die for my province', etc.) and other things, but I do feel that expecting a far greater % of one nations population to turn out for a game than another's is an argument for the lower crowds in Wales.

Overall I'm not sure what would work! Are we at out peak already???

Portnoy wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

Portnoy wrote:

geoff998rugby wrote:The true average crowd for Ulster last season in thr Pro12 was

8412 putting them above Blues and Ospreys.

Statsbunker = waste of space lads

Source?

http://www.statbunker.com/rugby/btb/index.php?PL=competition&CompID=366&statType=home_Att - a quick glance will tell you they're incomplete, no data for a couple of teams and only 2 matches for several others

In fairness they have fixed the old error in the 2011 Super XV - last year when I looked at that table they'd credited the Stormers with having a 130,000 gate (I even posted it on a thread at the time). Not bad for a 30,000 seat stadium

However I can't be more effusive in my apologies for quoting statbunker as a source of rabo stats. I should have delved further into the source of the source data.

Mind you, if I carried my life on that way, I'd spend my life reading the small print of everything I was buying/considering buying and comparing all those. And never get time to talk rugby.

Anyway -

No worries Portnoy. My post reflected my frustration last year when I spotted the errors - I thought I'd found a great source ... ...

Or Griff it could be that cities like Cork and Dublin have a lot of young guys with a few quid to spend at the stadium and in the pub after at the end of the week. Where as the similarly aged young professional males in the South Wales region earn less money and likely have young families to support.


Leinster and Munster have some of the best travelling supporters as well as high attendences.

Boyne - Depends on how you want ot read it mate. The league was created in 03-04 from a welsh point of view (but I will accept going back to 01-02) but the provinces were playing in the HEC and Parker Pen Shield from the very beginning what way back in 1995-1996.

Not being pedantic my friend but I think that 1995 was a while before 2001. And being pedantic (or being a pendant fullstop) 1995 was over 10 to 15 years ago.

maestegmafia wrote:Or Griff it could be that cities like Cork and Dublin have a lot of young guys with a few quid to spend at the stadium and in the pub after, where as the similarly aged young professional males in the South Wales region earn less money and likely have young families to support.

We definitely need some supporting stats for this one Maes! The most random generalisation so far!!

Yeah, sorry Maesteg. I can't agree with you on that one. I know loads of people with the money to go, who like rugby, but don't want to go to rugby matches. They can afford it but prefer not to. It is them that need to be persuaded to go.

I'm sure there are skint people in Ireland too!

Griff wrote:Yeah, sorry Maesteg. I can't agree with you on that one. I know loads of people with the money to go, who like rugby, but don't want to go to rugby matches. They can afford it but prefer not to. It is them that need to be persuaded to go.

I'm sure there are skint people in Ireland too!

I'd certainly say that lack of cash is the main reasoning behing most in my area. Afan Valley, Maesteg, Treorchy, Neath etc..!

I guess if my population theory was to be believed, which it probably won't, then a country 10 times bigger than another country could have 10 times more people with the dispoable income necessary to support rugby, all else being even. Maybe a joint theory is on the cards Maesteg!

thebluesmancometh wrote:Lord

So basically what your saying is, and I know the regions owners agree with you...

'F**K the fans who have any knowledge of the good old club game, and focus on their kids because we want to outbreed the contraversy of the change!!'

I wouldn't put it like that Bluesman, but to a certain extent I am saying that. Look, people like you and me who love rugby for what it is are few and far between, I see it all the time and it goes on within this very forum, all this nonsence about superclubs and no affiliation has to be taken away from the everyday fan, it is too late for people of our ages as they have already been exposed to it, o.k you can try and change peoples minds and the more you change now the better, but if you get the regions in and around the schools and clubs and give the kids hero's to aspire to then you will in one foul swoop wipe out all the contreversy that we have all been scared with. I was a Warrioirs fan, I was very bitter when they were folded, now I have mellowed and as long as I support "Welsh" rugby then I am content, but trust me nearly the whole of the Rhondda and Pontypridd are still grinding their axes and trust me until we get passed that we are phooked. The kids will look at their parents and take the same atittude and so on, unless the regions can get to the kids first.

Griff wrote:I guess if my population theory was to be believed, which it probably won't, then a country 10 times bigger than another country could have 10 times more people with the dispoable income necessary to support rugby, all else being even. Maybe a joint theory is on the cards Maesteg!

Aye i completely agree Griff mate, the advantage of being a larger country/city by comparison will be a big factor too.

I really think this debate about attendences is Blwdi pointless though. It is something used by idiots in the media and on forums to try and degrade the perception of successful rugby in Wales.

The regions are working, we are producing loads of talented young players, they have a, hopefully, sustainable business plan in place. There is more being done than I can ever remember to encourage and give valuable coaching to talented young lads keen on the great game.

The future looks bright. Results will come, if the regions play rugby to the best of their abilities we will see success, crowds will follow. Especially with, hopefully, more investment coming to Wales as we work our way out of recession.

And they are trying... Kids go free, school visits etc are what the regions are pushing, but maybe breeding the bitterness out of the population isn't the answer.

I know tons of kids who are starting to look up to players of their first team at their clubs.

Saturdays you'll see loads of these kids milling around the pitch watching the first team, throwing a ball around rather than down at the regions, and why shouldn't they? Their parents can take them for free/cheap, have a few drinks and it'll be near to their homes. The kids are with their mates as are the parents, fun had by all and a giggle with the first team in the clubhouse after.

Thats what Wales is used to, not this superstar reality where players arent accessible. How many people do you know who have a horror story about a regional player? or have a disliking for a their own regional/national player?

I think the crowds need to be inspired, by themselves, their regions, their players, their chairmen but also their clubs!

We are all pulling in different directions at present and it shows, until someone steps in and says if we all pull together we all benefit nothing will change, bitterness will be passed on and people will avoid the regions/superclubs!

Just 'throwing one out there' ...

... following on from Griff's really good post earlier about how we don't have natural regions/equivalents of the Irish provinces - if the Welsh teams were to stop trying to be all things for all people, and just embraced being the team of their town/city, rather than try and live up to the WRU's vague vision of 'regionalism' - would more potential fans identify with them?

Perhaps the Premiership/RFC semi-pro versions could be quietly absorbed back into their pro/'regional' superiors? Thus simplifying matters for the casual fan/supporter and providing just one Llanelli/Cardiff/Newport/Swansea (I accept that one would be a little more complicated) team to follow.

We could, at a stroke, remove all this 'region' issue and whatever it's supposed to mean, and just have four 'Pro Teams'.

Would that have a positive effect on home crowds in Wales?

Cas

I would go one step further, and play a 12 club professional premiership throughout the season, and create regions as they stand now for european games only, maybe a double header at the MS pre season to kick it all off.

No extra games for players, infact maybe a few less, more local support for the clubs, culminating in the excitement come HC time of selection and competition.

We could even make the regions WQ only, allowing for the NWQ players to keep the league strong, and help develop Welsh talent!

thebluesmancometh wrote:Cas

I would go one step further, and play a 12 club professional premiership throughout the season, and create regions as they stand now for european games only, maybe a double header at the MS pre season to kick it all off.

No extra games for players, infact maybe a few less, more local support for the clubs, culminating in the excitement come HC time of selection and competition.

We could even make the regions WQ only, allowing for the NWQ players to keep the league strong, and help develop Welsh talent!

A nice idea - but I was thinking about it on the basis that Roger Lewis said the current set up is with us for at least another 5 years....

I can wait...

thebluesmancometh wrote:Cas

I would go one step further, and play a 12 club professional premiership throughout the season, and create regions as they stand now for european games only, maybe a double header at the MS pre season to kick it all off.

No extra games for players, infact maybe a few less, more local support for the clubs, culminating in the excitement come HC time of selection and competition.

We could even make the regions WQ only, allowing for the NWQ players to keep the league strong, and help develop Welsh talent!

I'd hate to see the hissy fit that the English and French clubs would have if the regions had any success under this model.

I think the best way to increase attendencies would be adopting a SH style season.

HEC then six nations followed by a premiership comp similar to currie cup/NPC.

This is easy. Bring in the students. Ticket deals, cheap beer and after match parties could all do this. Some will become fans for life. This is what makes college football so huge in the States.

Link the regions/ sides with the colleges in some way. In Ireland Munster is based in UL and Leinster now in UCD. It's not much of a stretch to involve students as fans of people they see every day.

All the cities where the pro 12 is played have colleges or universities. In the college where I work the students go to a hellish, foul smelling dungeon on a Friday evening just because there's cheap drink. It's revolting. A bus to the stadium at the right time with an offer of two beers with every student ticket sold would come away full. It's be far more fun for the students that the creepy dive that go to now. A guide to the rules would help too. If there's no short term profit in it there would be long term through making fans and spreading interest. If they make no profit but fill empty seats it'd be worth it. It needn't be every match.

.

Ulster home games
6296
6555
7372
6887
8117
11379
7435
8131
8044
10125
11,000 approx

Scarlets
6493
8823
6188
7075
7950
14756 Ospreys
9869
6594
7534
10741 Munster
13047 Blues

Scarlets are doing something right. And kicked off the season in good fashion too with some lovely rugby last weekend. Interestingly their 6500 for their opening game was about the same as last year - slight increase. Three years ago, they played Leinster in their first home game and only got 6,000 odd - Leinster had players like Sexton, Healy, McFadden, Cullen, Nacewa, Horgan on the pitch. Must be something about Leinster......

ASLS

I can imagine how they'd threaten to boycott... oh!

Intotouch

The students are targetted with free tickets, stupidly cheap season tickets with beer vouchers etc... just doesnt pan out.

Rugby players are sometimes used to advertise and promote other products on TV here in Ireland. I'm sure it's the same in Wales.

Maybe it would be a good idea to project the player as an Ospreys/Scarlets/Dragons/Blues star rather than as a Welsh international.

It's only a small thing. But might raise awareness. Some of these guys are heroes to kids when wearing the red of Wales. Constantly remind them that they're playing every weekend for your local region.

The games that get the least interest are the ones between teams from different countries. There are also only a tiny number of away fans.

I suggested on another thread a cross border TV show made by Welsh/Scottish/Irish TV combined which focuses on the whole league rather than just your own nation.

Really hype up the games and rivalries between teams from different nations. This will get easier as time passes and rivalries continue to grow.

Feckless Rogue wrote:The games that get the least interest are the ones between teams from different countries. There are also only a tiny number of away fans.

Really?

2011/2012

Leinster v Dragons 14362
Blues v Warriors 8198
Ulster v Treviso 7372
Munster v Aironi 8742
Scarlets v Warriors 9869
Blues v Connacht 8,000
Scarlets v Connacht 7534

Feckless Rogue wrote:The games that get the least interest are the ones between teams from different countries. There are also only a tiny number of away fans.

I suggested on another thread a cross border TV show made by Welsh/Scottish/Irish TV combined which focuses on the whole league rather than just your own nation.

Really hype up the games and rivalries between teams from different nations. This will get easier as time passes and rivalries continue to grow.

The lack of away fans is understandable, though Leinster and Munster in particular have a fantastic travelling support, the distance and the cost is huge.

Pot Hale wrote:

Feckless Rogue wrote:The games that get the least interest are the ones between teams from different countries. There are also only a tiny number of away fans.

Really?

2011/2012

Leinster v Dragons 14362
Blues v Warriors 8198
Ulster v Treviso 7372
Munster v Aironi 8742
Scarlets v Warriors 9869
Blues v Connacht 8,000
Scarlets v Connacht 7534

Osprey vs Leinster 5424 !!!!! Two biggest teams in the league pulled under 6000 crowd to open the season. Compare that to the London (local rivals) double header crowds, or the 11,000 they got for a dead rubber against Blues...Leinster pulled over 48,000 vs Munster and 18500 for the Ulster game...far more than turned up at the same stadium for the playoff semi against Glasgow.
Selective stats above, the lowest attended games for every club were vs "foriegns" for obvious reasons. Not just lack of travelling fans but lack of genuine rivalry too.

Pot Hales Ulsters game against Leinster was in excess of 12,000 not 11,000

On the original question though I have to say maybe we are doing the right things anyway.
Contrary to popular belief the crowds in the Pro12 have slowly increased
year on year.
Ulster will definitely see an increase this year.
Cardiffs return to CAP should see an increase.
Ospreys are doing a lot to increase their gates
Connacht doubled their gates last year
Both Scottish clubs saw an increas and both have, or are, moving to smaller grounds to get a better atmosphere.

So maybe the answer is carry on as you are - it is already bearing fruit

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

Feckless Rogue wrote:The games that get the least interest are the ones between teams from different countries. There are also only a tiny number of away fans.

Really?

2011/2012

Leinster v Dragons 14362
Blues v Warriors 8198
Ulster v Treviso 7372
Munster v Aironi 8742
Scarlets v Warriors 9869
Blues v Connacht 8,000
Scarlets v Connacht 7534

Osprey vs Leinster 5424 !!!!! Two biggest teams in the league pulled under 6000 crowd to open the season. Compare that to the London (local rivals) double header crowds, or the 11,000 they got for a dead rubber against Blues...Leinster pulled over 48,000 vs Munster and 18500 for the Ulster game...far more than turned up at the same stadium for the playoff semi against Glasgow.
Selective stats above, the lowest attended games for every club were vs "foriegns" for obvious reasons. Not just lack of travelling fans but lack of genuine rivalry too.

Ospreys and Leinster both lost pretty much a full team to the RWC at that point, and the RWC was still on. It is not really a fair judge of the league.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

Feckless Rogue wrote:The games that get the least interest are the ones between teams from different countries. There are also only a tiny number of away fans.

Really?

2011/2012

Leinster v Dragons 14362
Blues v Warriors 8198
Ulster v Treviso 7372
Munster v Aironi 8742
Scarlets v Warriors 9869
Blues v Connacht 8,000
Scarlets v Connacht 7534

Osprey vs Leinster 5424 !!!!! Two biggest teams in the league pulled under 6000 crowd to open the season. Compare that to the London (local rivals) double header crowds, or the 11,000 they got for a dead rubber against Blues...Leinster pulled over 48,000 vs Munster and 18500 for the Ulster game...far more than turned up at the same stadium for the playoff semi against Glasgow.
Selective stats above, the lowest attended games for every club were vs "foriegns" for obvious reasons. Not just lack of travelling fans but lack of genuine rivalry too.

Ospreys and Leinster both lost pretty much a full team to the RWC at that point, and the RWC was still on. It is not really a fair judge of the league.

True, but the general point stands that intra country games tend to be better attended that inter country ones, and brings up the poin that phoney games played between severly weakened teams do leagues no favours when it come to attendances. People want to see meaningful games played that have genuine rivalries between full strength teams of similar ability. The league is taking steps toward improving that, the playoffs one example (no more titles decided on a wet friday night 3 weeks before the end by a team choosing to not to go for a bonus point). Over time the rivalries will build, Ospreys Leinster/Munster for example seems to be a regular shoot out now.
But the nature of the league will always provide obstacle unless theres a fundamental shift in thinking. In terms of attendance, fan base, and draw there is dead weight in there. The cross border travel is problematic...theres enough moaning about getting from North Wales to see a regional game in Ospreyshire let alone Aberdeen. The lack of competition for HC spots/relegation means many teams season is pretty much over 2/3s of the way through. often Unions or big clubs treat it as a subordinate league and hold back players. Now there may be very good and valid reasons for these things in the bigger picture but you cant argue it doesnt contribute to the lack of full buy in from fans for the league.

PSW - Being a regular home game attender at the Scarlets I can honestly say that if we are playing Munster/Leinster/Ulster on a Saturday the attendance will be far better than if we were to be playing the Dragons, or possibly even the Blues.

The thing is with it being a competition featuring four different nations it can be quite awkward to get big away fan attendances on Fridays or Sundays as there is traveling and work etc to consider.

The problem with crowd size stats are that they don't paint the whole picture.

O's Leinster was poor, but with almost every international away it was more like a B game!

Also the Blues Connacht was big for the Blues, but then it was a trial back at the CAP!!

There are also sometimes HC games that spark a bit more interest when the opposing league fixture roles around.

The problem with crowd size stats are that they don't paint the whole picture.

O's Leinster was poor, but with almost every international away it was more like a B game!

Also the Blues Connacht was big for the Blues, but then it was a trial back at the CAP!!

There are also sometimes HC games that spark a bit more interest when the opposing league fixture roles around.

Also the timing of the game is huge, Saturday nights will get a lot more interest than sunday afternoons for example!

thebluesmancometh wrote: Also the timing of the game is huge, Saturday nights will get a lot more interest than sunday afternoons for example!

Agree timing is significant but it is not the same for all teams.

Friday night will always be Ulster's preferred time - it is when we get our biggest crowds.
Leaves Saturday free for club rugby - we suffer if a game is on a Saturday

Intotouch wrote:This is easy. Bring in the students. Ticket deals, cheap beer and after match parties could all do this. Some will become fans for life. This is what makes college football so huge in the States.

Link the regions/ sides with the colleges in some way. In Ireland Munster is based in UL and Leinster now in UCD. It's not much of a stretch to involve students as fans of people they see every day.

All the cities where the pro 12 is played have colleges or universities. In the college where I work the students go to a hellish, foul smelling dungeon on a Friday evening just because there's cheap drink. It's revolting. A bus to the stadium at the right time with an offer of two beers with every student ticket sold would come away full. It's be far more fun for the students that the creepy dive that go to now. A guide to the rules would help too. If there's no short term profit in it there would be long term through making fans and spreading interest. If they make no profit but fill empty seats it'd be worth it. It needn't be every match.

You're not talking about Metros by any chance?

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

Intotouch wrote:This is easy. Bring in the students. Ticket deals, cheap beer and after match parties could all do this. Some will become fans for life. This is what makes college football so huge in the States.

Link the regions/ sides with the colleges in some way. In Ireland Munster is based in UL and Leinster now in UCD. It's not much of a stretch to involve students as fans of people they see every day.

All the cities where the pro 12 is played have colleges or universities. In the college where I work the students go to a hellish, foul smelling dungeon on a Friday evening just because there's cheap drink. It's revolting. A bus to the stadium at the right time with an offer of two beers with every student ticket sold would come away full. It's be far more fun for the students that the creepy dive that go to now. A guide to the rules would help too. If there's no short term profit in it there would be long term through making fans and spreading interest. If they make no profit but fill empty seats it'd be worth it. It needn't be every match.

You're not talking about Metros by any chance?

In my experience students quite like drinking in "hellish, foul smelling dungeons". The student local at my university was refurbished in the summer holidays before my final year. The dodgy carpet went and the internal walls were painted white. It became a suburban pub almost overnight, and the students found a new seedy dive a bit further away from uni.

Granted the change of name from "the Sin Bin" to the "Bush Bar" may not have helped ...

maestegmafia wrote:Or Griff it could be that cities like Cork and Dublin have a lot of young guys with a few quid to spend at the stadium and in the pub after at the end of the week. Where as the similarly aged young professional males in the South Wales region earn less money and likely have young families to support.


Leinster and Munster have some of the best travelling supporters as well as high attendences.

Different code but Hull supports two professional rugby sides with average attendances of 12500 and 8300 last year. On top of the football team that got an average of 19000 last year in the 2nd division (the one below the premiership, whatever it's call). There is also massive unemployment, teenage pregnancies and all the other social problems associated with a ex-industrial city. Populations are similar, with Hull being slightly bigger than Swansea on it's own.

People turn up if they give a Poopie. If they don't they won't. Being a bit interested may get you watching on tele but it won't get to the stadium. My in-laws live in the Neath valley and I know a large portion of that smallish community spend a fortune going to the pub every night getting smashed (which was the same when I was growing up in Stoke). It's not the lack of money, it's the decision what to spend your limited income on.

HammerofThunor wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Or Griff it could be that cities like Cork and Dublin have a lot of young guys with a few quid to spend at the stadium and in the pub after at the end of the week. Where as the similarly aged young professional males in the South Wales region earn less money and likely have young families to support.


Leinster and Munster have some of the best travelling supporters as well as high attendences.

Different code but Hull supports two professional rugby sides with average attendances of 12500 and 8300 last year. On top of the football team that got an average of 19000 last year in the 2nd division (the one below the premiership, whatever it's call). There is also massive unemployment, teenage pregnancies and all the other social problems associated with a ex-industrial city. Populations are similar, with Hull being slightly bigger than Swansea on it's own.

People turn up if they give a Poopie. If they don't they won't. Being a bit interested may get you watching on tele but it won't get to the stadium. My in-laws live in the Neath valley and I know a large portion of that smallish community spend a fortune going to the pub every night getting smashed (which was the same when I was growing up in Stoke). It's not the lack of money, it's the decision what to spend your limited income on.

+1

They pays their (limited) money but take their pick.