Ideas to improve Pro 12 attendance.

by Kingshu Thu 06 Sep 2012, 8:22 am

Theres are lots on comments on other threads about the attendance of Pro 12 games, partically in Wales, and I thought that its easy to give out but what can be done to improve it?

This is going to be different in each country, and also for each team.

Your ideas please.

Please keep them realistic, as tickets for same price as the cinema isn't going to be finicialally viable, and no WUMS please.

by LordDowlais Thu 06 Sep 2012, 8:32 am

Crowds will not increase for the regions until the next generation of supporters can affiliate themselves with them, at the moment every town has a club, and within the town itself there are about half a dozen clubs, when people look past their local clubs to the region, only then will we see the attendances at the regions grow.

by **Biltong** Thu 06 Sep 2012, 8:37 am

Face time with players in the communities are probably the easiest quick fix.

Radio stations etc interviewing players, it can work to their advantage to help the communities identify stronger with the clubs.

by Kingshu Thu 06 Sep 2012, 8:40 am

I'll start.

More hype, Sky is very good at it, the channels that cover the Pro 12 less so.

Also in the papers or tv coverage there is little or no mention of games not invoving a team from that country.
I.E In Ireland it would be hard to find a write up on a Welsh Derby in an Irish paper, likewise 1872 cup game.

I'd say in Wales there is a bit for a Leinster V Munster game, but these are usually the biggest games in the League.

I think that the league needs covered as a whole and not just that countries teams to grow intrest in other teams.
Do you get exicted by say Cardiff Blues coming if you know their players and how they are doing, and less so if you know nothing about them. How many times have you gone to the game with a mate (who only attends the odd game) and they have no idea about the opposistion? They know about Ulster, Leinster and Munster but very little beyond that.

For me I'd try to have Scrum V/BBC NI/ALBA/RTE/TG4 pool resources to produce one show to be on all the channels on a Sun, cover it on a Match of the day basis, and promote big upcoming games.

Maybe pool together, to show all games with local commerty on the red button. Advertise all the games across the board, so someone in Ireland is aware there is a Welsh derby on.

In all, promote the League as a League and not a collection of individuel Countries promoting their own.

by Guest Thu 06 Sep 2012, 8:50 am

spot on Kingshu, that would be a big help. I find myself knowing less and less about the Scottish and Italian sides these days (not so much of a problem with the Irish). It's hard to drum up too much excitement when you don't really know much about the sides you are facing.

by BoyneRFC Thu 06 Sep 2012, 8:58 am

LordDowlais wrote:Crowds will not increase for the regions until the next generation of supporters can affiliate themselves with them, at the moment every town has a club, and within the town itself there are about half a dozen clubs, when people look past their local clubs to the region, only then will we see the attendances at the regions grow.

That's a decent explanation for once. Certainly better than people are struggling to survive in the valleys...

Perhaps knock down (or even free) tickets for kids from outside the population centers of Swansea, Cardiff ect. Get kids to cough up 3 or 4 pound for a bus ride in from the country side (or valleys, whatever) and fill the stadium... They could allocate "invitations" to say 10 clubs per game and rotate (if there are so many clubs about)...

by Guest Thu 06 Sep 2012, 8:59 am

Boyne - most of the regions already do that

by red_stag Thu 06 Sep 2012, 9:27 am

Kingshu wrote:In all, promote the League as a League and not a collection of individuel Countries promoting their own.

Would this also involve have European qualification based on league positioning?

I think the stadiums are too large for some teams.

Smaller stadiums mean better atmosphere. It means that people who may want to get into the big games could miss out sometimes and that isn't a bad thing. It creates demand.

by HERSH Thu 06 Sep 2012, 9:42 am

Stop resting the top players!

by LordDowlais Thu 06 Sep 2012, 10:03 am

Or you could announce you are comming Hershy, that would draw in the crowds, along with all the rotton veg. tomato

by GunsGerms Thu 06 Sep 2012, 10:09 am

Future attendances rely on todays schoolboys. I went to a rugby school and therefore got a schoolboy ticket to all Ireland International matches. By the time I left school attending Ireland matches was so engrained in my annual routine I have been attending every year since for the last 15 years and probably always will.

Anyone else remember the triangular schoolboy section on the south terrace of landsdowne road?

Rabo teams need to make an extra big effort to promote their teams to local schools. Schoolboy sections and the distribution of schoolboy tickets through schools, school visits and promotions etc. are all very important. I think the strategy should be long term and sustainable.

Half time shows, pizazz, fireworks, expensive foreign players, cheerleaders and other short term solutions are not the answer.

by HERSH Thu 06 Sep 2012, 10:15 am

LordDowlais wrote:Or you could announce you are comming Hershy, that would draw in the crowds, along with all the rotton veg.

Or stop resting the top players and take the league seriously, it far too Mickey Mouse at the moment and that is why fans won't part with their hard earned cash.

by Guest Thu 06 Sep 2012, 10:17 am

LordDowlais wrote:Crowds will not increase for the regions until the next generation of supporters can affiliate themselves with them, at the moment every town has a club, and within the town itself there are about half a dozen clubs, when people look past their local clubs to the region, only then will we see the attendances at the regions grow.

It's already happening though. I think in another ten years or so, the gates will be near full every game (depending on what happens with stadium increases of course).

Take the Dragons, they have a different two clubs from the region forming a guard of honour when the teams run on. Those kids then stay in after that and that can only generate interest in the team as if the Dragons give them a reason to come back (generally they do at home), the kids will want to come back again.

by Casartelli Thu 06 Sep 2012, 10:55 am

Home crowds for Welsh teams seem to have found their natural level now, and with the financial reform/salary cap (and Roger Lewis pretty much confirming that the current set up is with us for the next 5 years+) at least it's a sensible, balanced position from which to try and start building more support.

In the short term, other than free giveaways, there isn't much else that can be done. Cardiff Blues are returning to the Arms Park, which should make a difference (as everyone always says, the atmosphere at the Dragons is good because it's a proper rugby ground). Taking the game to huge, soulless, modern stadiums before the crowds justified it was a costly error. Other than the odd non-league game, though, there seems little appetite to attempt this initiative further west.

So BOGOFs it is then. And keep fingers crossed that the next generation take more of an interest.

by Portnoy Thu 06 Sep 2012, 11:07 am

Dissolve the UK. Sell off the BBC regions to their nations.

Might not help. But it would be entertaining to watch hell freeze over.

More seriously. Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland need to market their products to TV much more aggressively. Free to air means sit on your sofa.

by ScarletSpiderman Thu 06 Sep 2012, 11:33 am

1 - Sponsor good links with schools and local clubs. I believe most of the regions have deals where Schools/clubs do get either cut price or free tickets for cetrain games etc, and there are the half time games of tag-rugby (i know the scarlets do it, but believe they all do too?). If you can get the kids to turn up and to do it regular then it becomes a habit, and when they get older they won't want to miss out. Also even if they get in for free they are still buying programmes, food, drink etc.

2 - Get the RaboDirect Pro12 Broadcast partners to agree only to show games that are being played away and local derby matches. So for instance BBC 2W and S4C would not show any of the regions home games (bar derbies), but would show their away games. The 'I only watch rugby on tv' fan will not miss out on seeing rugby on tv, and may be impressed when they see a packed Thomand or RDS etc enought to turn up to their local regions games againt Munster/Leinster to see the atmospher 1st hand. The 'I support my side, but don't go as their games are all on tv' fan would be far more likely to turn up as they will not be able to see their side play that week unless they go to the ground. The 'attend all home games' fans will be rewarded with being able to see their side on tv when they are not watching them live at home. AND the public will not be seeing empty stands etc, which causes the storm in the tea cup on here.

3 - Ban the following
a) Pundits from calling the regions by the wrong names like they seem to do now
b) Press from bemoaning attendances, and getting them to point out the positives instead. As sadly in Wales we seem to prefer doom and gloom rather than good news (sad by true).
c) Any theads on 606v2 complaining about the regions not representing their regions, etc etc. Eitehr get behind them as regions, or ignore them. After all I ain't a fan of football or tennis, but if it is on the tv or in the press i ignore it.

by thebluesmancometh Thu 06 Sep 2012, 11:35 am

For all your ideas you know that 3 of the 4 regions were better supported than most teams in the rabo last season, including the HC finalists Ulster!!!

Infact it's only Leinster and Munster who beat us!

by Stone Motif Thu 06 Sep 2012, 11:41 am

In Wales, allow the regions to run themselves instead of being toothless slaves to the demands of the WRU. This will engender more success at pro 12 and European level and success is what sells. All the rest is smoke and mirrors. Blanket ban on televised home matches once this occurs and job done.

by ScarletSpiderman Thu 06 Sep 2012, 11:46 am

thebluesmancometh wrote:For all your ideas you know that 3 of the 4 regions were better supported than most teams in the rabo last season, including the HC finalists Ulster!!!

Infact it's only Leinster and Munster who beat us!

No! It went Leinster, Munster, Scarlets, Ulster, then the rabble.

by thebluesmancometh Thu 06 Sep 2012, 11:48 am

Actually it went

Leinster
Munster
Scarlet
Ospreys
Blues
Ulster

Theres a link around here somewhere

by thebluesmancometh Thu 06 Sep 2012, 11:52 am

Here you go scarlet...

http://www.statbunker.com/rugby/btb/index.php?PL=competition&CompID=394&statType=home_Att

I was shocked too!

by LordDowlais Thu 06 Sep 2012, 11:53 am

ScarletSpiderman wrote:1 - Sponsor good links with schools and local clubs. I believe most of the regions have deals where Schools/clubs do get either cut price or free tickets for cetrain games etc, and there are the half time games of tag-rugby (i know the scarlets do it, but believe they all do too?). If you can get the kids to turn up and to do it regular then it becomes a habit, and when they get older they won't want to miss out. Also even if they get in for free they are still buying programmes, food, drink etc.

2 - Get the RaboDirect Pro12 Broadcast partners to agree only to show games that are being played away and local derby matches. So for instance BBC 2W and S4C would not show any of the regions home games (bar derbies), but would show their away games. The 'I only watch rugby on tv' fan will not miss out on seeing rugby on tv, and may be impressed when they see a packed Thomand or RDS etc enought to turn up to their local regions games againt Munster/Leinster to see the atmospher 1st hand. The 'I support my side, but don't go as their games are all on tv' fan would be far more likely to turn up as they will not be able to see their side play that week unless they go to the ground. The 'attend all home games' fans will be rewarded with being able to see their side on tv when they are not watching them live at home. AND the public will not be seeing empty stands etc, which causes the storm in the tea cup on here.
3 - Ban the following
a) Pundits from calling the regions by the wrong names like they seem to do now
b) Press from bemoaning attendances, and getting them to point out the positives instead. As sadly in Wales we seem to prefer doom and gloom rather than good news (sad by true).
c) Any theads on 606v2 complaining about the regions not representing their regions, etc etc. Eitehr get behind them as regions, or ignore them. After all I ain't a fan of football or tennis, but if it is on the tv or in the press i ignore it.

I hate it when people harp on about the tele causing the regions attendances to be crap. If people bother looking at why there is a "T.V AUDIENCE" for a start it is becuase the people who go to watch their clubs side can still watch the regions, now if the people watching the regions on tv throughout Wales not just people from that particular region starts to dwindle then the games on tv would cease to exist, do people on here realise how much money is generated for the regions from BBC Wales and S4C ? I know for a fact that it is the equivelent of getting ten thousand people through the turnstiles at each home game. The regions cannot afford to loose this money and there needs to be an audience for them to get this money on top of what ever they make from people like us actually going to the games. So as far as I am concerned the games on tele are here to stay weather it be home or away matches. Ale

by Guest Thu 06 Sep 2012, 11:54 am

I'll have a look at my Pro12 media launch stuff when I get home, but am pretty sure Ulster had the 4th highest attendance, just behind the Scarlets.

by Portnoy Thu 06 Sep 2012, 11:55 am

thebluesmancometh wrote:Actually it went

Leinster
Munster
Scarlet
Ospreys
Blues
Ulster

Theres a link around here somewhere

That's true. I posted it as there is way too much guff spewed out as fact that I felt I had to.

by ScarletSpiderman Thu 06 Sep 2012, 11:59 am

Bluesman - Those must be doctored mate, there is no chance that the Blues who had a lowest attendance of 4,557 wasn't it only 3k (and a bit) in the final match?

by thebluesmancometh Thu 06 Sep 2012, 11:59 am

Are you claiming the BBC's and S4C's budget stretches to the equivilant of 10 thousand people, per region, per home game, all season?

On modest profit margins that would be the equivilant of over 10k per region per home game

x4 = 40,000

x11 = 440,000

We are looking at a figure over 1/2 a million in reality?!

by thebluesmancometh Thu 06 Sep 2012, 12:01 pm

Well how do I argue with that, stats are doctored if they prove you wrong.

I'm out.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Thu 06 Sep 2012, 12:01 pm

My main suggestion for improving attendances would be match timing. There are 4 Pro12 matches scheduled for tomorrow night, vs 2 on Saturday - it's a lot easier to get people along on a Saturday afternoon that a Friday evening.

by Portnoy Thu 06 Sep 2012, 12:01 pm

rugbydreamer wrote:I'll have a look at my Pro12 media launch stuff when I get home, but am pretty sure Ulster had the 4th highest attendance, just behind the Scarlets.

Oh ffs Dreamer http://www.statbunker.com/rugby/btb/index.php?PL=competition&CompID=394&statType=home_Att corrupted by Munster Leinster Lansdowne game.

by thebluesmancometh Thu 06 Sep 2012, 12:03 pm

Pete

You are bang on, try getting into Cardiff city centre on a friday night about 6 ish...

Try parking somewhere in Newport on a friday night...

Why don't we just play a system where 1 game is played on a friday, 1 on a sunday and the bulk throughout saturday, 1, 3, 5, 7???

by red_stag Thu 06 Sep 2012, 12:03 pm

Lads all Dreamer is saying is that the official stats are worth taking more seriously than this third party website.

by Guest Thu 06 Sep 2012, 12:04 pm

Calm yourself Portnoy, I met the stats team at the media launch, so I would trust their information (that they supply to organisations like espn and sky) then over some random stat bunker site. I'm sure Ulster had over 8,000 in attendances. I could v well be wrong, and will hold my hands up if so.

by thebluesmancometh Thu 06 Sep 2012, 12:05 pm

Portnoy you are right mind.

We should be playing MS double headers ala Twickers to get our stats and awareness up, put bands on, cheerleading comps, make a day of it!

by ScarletSpiderman Thu 06 Sep 2012, 12:09 pm

thebluesmancometh wrote:Well how do I argue with that, stats are doctored if they prove you wrong.

I'm out.

Not being harsh but the BLues website claims different attendances to those that you have given

http://www.cardiffblues.com/rugby/fixtures_and_results.php?includeref=3792&season=2011-2012

The lowest attendance was the final game V Edinburgh (3.5k) but stats bunker has it as 4.5k

by ScarletSpiderman Thu 06 Sep 2012, 12:15 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Swiped from another thread

Mickado wrote:
Team Location Average Attn.
Aironi Stadio Zaffanella 3503
Blues CCS 7811
Connacht Sportsground 4653
Dragons Rodney Parade 6098
Edinburgh Murrayfield 4135
Leinster Aviva Stadium 48365
Leinster RDS 15306
Leinster Total 18312
Munster Musgrave Park 7896
Munster Thomond Park 19722
Munster Total 15421
Ospreys Liberty Stadium 7686
Scarlets Parc y Scarlets 9006
Treviso Stadio di Monigo 3900
Ulster Ravenhill 8386
Warriors Firhill 4016

Its not looking to bad in comparison to Ulster for the Welsh regions, I guess we just like to bitch and moan about how bad things are.

by thebluesmancometh Thu 06 Sep 2012, 12:16 pm

I also have the average as 7,763 (unless my maths is wrong) over the season from the blues website, more than statbunkers.

That 3500 was a real statement to the board, Williams leaving game, hugely promoted and was expected to be a sell out!

by Portnoy Thu 06 Sep 2012, 12:18 pm

rugbydreamer wrote:Calm yourself Portnoy, I met the stats team at the media launch, so I would trust their information (that they supply to organisations like espn and sky) then over some random stat bunker site. I'm sure Ulster had over 8,000 in attendances. I could v well be wrong, and will hold my hands up if so.

Rabo, HEC or overall RD?

The OP is "Ideas to improve Pro 12 attendance"

[ed] I'm quite calm. Laid back even...

by ScarletSpiderman Thu 06 Sep 2012, 12:19 pm

Bluesman - I think we have shown that there are real issues with averagae attendances depending on who calculated them and where they were recorded etc.

I know I posted somewhere a list of average, highest and lowest attendances for the regions over the last five years. I can't find it now, but it shown that they are growing (well bar the Blues going to CCS, leaving CCS) gradually season upon season.

by Guest Thu 06 Sep 2012, 12:21 pm

Portnoy - what exactly to you mean? The stats team provide the stats for all rugby union and league competitions in the NH and SH.

If you are on about just Rabo attendances then the link you provided is definitely incorrect. Scarlets only just got over the 9K average due to the bumper crowds we got in the HEC.

by thebluesmancometh Thu 06 Sep 2012, 12:22 pm

Of course there will be discrepencies, I remember being in the old ninian park a few years ago when we went up and they claimed full house, although there were 2 to a seat nearly, people filling the isles and noone could move!!

Ive also been to the city stadium and spoken to a freind on the opposite side in open play and there were claimed 10k people there... Cool

by LordDowlais Thu 06 Sep 2012, 12:24 pm

thebluesmancometh wrote:Are you claiming the BBC's and S4C's budget stretches to the equivilant of 10 thousand people, per region, per home game, all season?

On modest profit margins that would be the equivilant of over 10k per region per home game

x4 = 40,000

x11 = 440,000

We are looking at a figure over 1/2 a million in reality?!

According to Roger Lewis, yes, and that is why the WRU do not want to stop it, its all about advertising as well, but for my two penneth, the regions should be using the fact that they are on the tele to sell themselves to the people watching, so that the average person looking at their tv screen starts to think, hey it looks good there I would not mind a peice of that, which for the Blues going back to the cap might do. You cannot under estemate how many people are tuning in to watch the regions on S4C and BBC Wales, and it's not just people from Wales, in the same interview he gave about how much the regions get from it I think he said there were about two hundred and fifty thousand people tuning just to watch the regions, weather that be people who just want to watch a game, or people who cannot afford to go to the game itself, or people who just love rugby around the world and tune in. Look at it this way, I cannot ever see me going to a Super 14 game, but I have watched loads of them on Sky over the last few weeks just becuase I love watching rugby, should they not show those games so that I might have actually go to Aus/New Zealand/South Africa to watch them ? And this is what it is all about, companies spend a lot of money to advertise during the commercials, god knows how much the Principality Building Society are paying to sponsor the progaramme itself, look at the audience they are getting and without the tele they wouldn't get it, would the regions get the same price or sponsers at their grounds if they were never on the tele, I doubt it very much.

by thebluesmancometh Thu 06 Sep 2012, 12:28 pm

Lord

Whos disagreeing? I was just surprised the deal was that much!!

I see what you mean though, tuning in to hear the doom and gloom of empty stadiums being hyped up to stupid fashion, pundits talking player exodus and what not it hardly makes you want to run to the nearest region and pick up a season ticket (although thats what Ive done)

by ScarletSpiderman Thu 06 Sep 2012, 12:33 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
thebluesmancometh wrote:Are you claiming the BBC's and S4C's budget stretches to the equivilant of 10 thousand people, per region, per home game, all season?

On modest profit margins that would be the equivilant of over 10k per region per home game

x4 = 40,000

x11 = 440,000

We are looking at a figure over 1/2 a million in reality?!

According to Roger Lewis, yes, and that is why the WRU do not want to stop it, its all about advertising as well, but for my two penneth, the regions should be using the fact that they are on the tele to sell themselves to the people watching, so that the average person looking at their tv screen starts to think, hey it looks good there I would not mind a peice of that, which for the Blues going back to the cap might do. You cannot under estemate how many people are tuning in to watch the regions on S4C and BBC Wales, and it's not just people from Wales, in the same interview he gave about how much the regions get from it I think he said there were about two hundred and fifty thousand people tuning just to watch the regions, weather that be people who just want to watch a game, or people who cannot afford to go to the game itself, or people who just love rugby around the world and tune in. Look at it this way, I cannot ever see me going to a Super 14 game, but I have watched loads of them on Sky over the last few weeks just becuase I love watching rugby, should they not show those games so that I might have actually go to Aus/New Zealand/South Africa to watch them ? And this is what it is all about, companies spend a lot of money to advertise during the commercials, god knows how much the Principality Building Society are paying to sponsor the progaramme itself, look at the audience they are getting and without the tele they wouldn't get it, would the regions get the same price or sponsers at their grounds if they were never on the tele, I doubt it very much.

LOrd - that is why I was suggesting only showing away matches and derby matches. If you show the Scarlets playing well infront of a packed RDS and the fans of both sides singing and chanting it looks good. However if you show the Scarlets playing against Leinster in a ground that has two stands closed off it doesn't look as good. I know which one would seel turning up to a regional game more. And likewise with the derby matches, they are generally packed grounds and real atmospheres.

Also seeing as away games are far harder to attend than home games it would give the regions more exposure IMO, as you will have more chances to see them (live + on TV, so pretty much all games) than you do now.

by thebluesmancometh Thu 06 Sep 2012, 12:42 pm

SS

You won't be hearing many of the 10's of scarlets fans who have made the trip to the RDS though!

And also the weakened scarlet boys getting a tonking isn't going to inspire anyone!!

Ive been to the RDS way more times than I care to remember and it generally doesn't promote welsh rugby!!

by LordDowlais Thu 06 Sep 2012, 12:56 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
thebluesmancometh wrote:Are you claiming the BBC's and S4C's budget stretches to the equivilant of 10 thousand people, per region, per home game, all season?

On modest profit margins that would be the equivilant of over 10k per region per home game

x4 = 40,000

x11 = 440,000

We are looking at a figure over 1/2 a million in reality?!

According to Roger Lewis, yes, and that is why the WRU do not want to stop it, its all about advertising as well, but for my two penneth, the regions should be using the fact that they are on the tele to sell themselves to the people watching, so that the average person looking at their tv screen starts to think, hey it looks good there I would not mind a peice of that, which for the Blues going back to the cap might do. You cannot under estemate how many people are tuning in to watch the regions on S4C and BBC Wales, and it's not just people from Wales, in the same interview he gave about how much the regions get from it I think he said there were about two hundred and fifty thousand people tuning just to watch the regions, weather that be people who just want to watch a game, or people who cannot afford to go to the game itself, or people who just love rugby around the world and tune in. Look at it this way, I cannot ever see me going to a Super 14 game, but I have watched loads of them on Sky over the last few weeks just becuase I love watching rugby, should they not show those games so that I might have actually go to Aus/New Zealand/South Africa to watch them ? And this is what it is all about, companies spend a lot of money to advertise during the commercials, god knows how much the Principality Building Society are paying to sponsor the progaramme itself, look at the audience they are getting and without the tele they wouldn't get it, would the regions get the same price or sponsers at their grounds if they were never on the tele, I doubt it very much.

LOrd - that is why I was suggesting only showing away matches and derby matches. If you show the Scarlets playing well infront of a packed RDS and the fans of both sides singing and chanting it looks good. However if you show the Scarlets playing against Leinster in a ground that has two stands closed off it doesn't look as good. I know which one would seel turning up to a regional game more. And likewise with the derby matches, they are generally packed grounds and real atmospheres.

Also seeing as away games are far harder to attend than home games it would give the regions more exposure IMO, as you will have more chances to see them (live + on TV, so pretty much all games) than you do now.

But what good would that do the regions when they cannot get any advertising at their grounds because there are no tv cameras there, most of the companies that advertise and sponser our regions are Welsh companies who want to appeal to people who are here, not to somebody in Ireland who might think, oh hang on a minute I might pop over to Newport to buy a car, no, they want to appeal to us the Welsh public and if they get their name across to a few people outside of Wales then thats a bonus, but for advertising reasons alone we need the home games on the tele, do not under estemate the power of advertising. Erm

by SecretFly Thu 06 Sep 2012, 12:58 pm

thebluesmancometh wrote:SS

You won't be hearing many of the 10's of scarlets fans who have made the trip to the RDS though!

And also the weakened scarlet boys getting a tonking isn't going to inspire anyone!!

Ive been to the RDS way more times than I care to remember and it generally doesn't promote welsh rugby!!

Winning promotes Welsh rugby - as the nice run at the World Cup suggests. The Darlings of that event and it was the winning (for as long as it continued) that provided that world recognition, not bums on seats. No, Welsh regional fans at games at the RDS will not promote Welsh rugby, winning will. Winning might not cause a clamour for more seats, I'm not saying that it naturally will - but it'll be the only thing that has the potential to. Nobody outside the regional sphere in Wales cares how many Regional fans show up for any of the regional games (home or away) if those sides aren't winning; but success in the League, and more pointedly in the HC, might certainly cause the non-believers to sit up and take notice.

by Portnoy Thu 06 Sep 2012, 1:02 pm

rugbydreamer wrote:Portnoy - what exactly to you mean? The stats team provide the stats for all rugby union and league competitions in the NH and SH.

If you are on about just Rabo attendances then the link you provided is definitely incorrect. Scarlets only just got over the 9K average due to the bumper crowds we got in the HEC.

The stats I supplied are generated by statbunker (who's data source I can't establish).

But there again I didn't meet a bloke at a media launch once who told me that my stats source was the bees knees. (I'll scrape ESPN's Rabo figures and see how they compare with statbunker)

p.s. I've PMed you to help Pot Hale's data scrape.

by thebluesmancometh Thu 06 Sep 2012, 1:07 pm

Secret you are right, winning is what we need, but televising only games at Thomond and RDS where we do not win is not going to help.

We need home games televised, with full stadiums, watching winning teams!!

So 15k free tickets to the home Zebre game on TV should do the trick and inspire the crowds in?!

by Guest Thu 06 Sep 2012, 1:08 pm

Portnoy - no need to get snarky mate. he's the guy who applies the official stats that are used by all the big tv broadcasters, just saying he's going to be a tad more reliable is all.

Also added to the fact that it's already been proven that some of the stat bunker stats are a load of nonsense when compared with actual figures from individual rugby teams' sites. What a shock Smile

by Casartelli Thu 06 Sep 2012, 1:09 pm

SecretFly wrote:
thebluesmancometh wrote:SS

You won't be hearing many of the 10's of scarlets fans who have made the trip to the RDS though!

And also the weakened scarlet boys getting a tonking isn't going to inspire anyone!!

Ive been to the RDS way more times than I care to remember and it generally doesn't promote welsh rugby!!

Winning promotes Welsh rugby - as the nice run at the World Cup suggests. The Darlings of that event and it was the winning (for as long as it continued) that provided that world recognition, not bums on seats. No, Welsh regional fans at games at the RDS will not promote Welsh rugby, winning will. Winning might not cause a clamour for more seats, I'm not saying that it naturally will - but it'll be the only thing that has the potential to. Nobody outside the regional sphere in Wales cares how many Regional fans show up for any of the regional games (home or away) if those sides aren't winning; but success in the League, and more pointedly in the HC, might certainly cause the non-believers to sit up and take notice.

'Success will bring the crowds' gets repeated often, and sounds logical, but for some reason there is no actual evidence of it. The Ospreys, 4 time league winners and by far and away the most successful 'region' rank behind the Scarlets and the Blues on the attendance figures quoted earlier in the thread.

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Team	Location	Average Attn.
Aironi	Stadio Zaffanella	3503
Blues	CCS	7811
Connacht	Sportsground	4653
Dragons	Rodney Parade	6098
Edinburgh	Murrayfield	4135
Leinster	Aviva Stadium	48365
Leinster	RDS	15306
Leinster Total		18312
Munster	Musgrave Park	7896
Munster	Thomond Park	19722
Munster Total		15421
Ospreys	Liberty Stadium	7686
Scarlets	Parc y Scarlets	9006
Treviso	Stadio di Monigo	3900
Ulster	Ravenhill	8386
Warriors	Firhill	4016