Quinn Roux to Leinster

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Taken from Sky Sports website:

Leinster are set to announce the signing of Stormers lock Quinn Roux, according to reports in South Africa.

The 21-year-old played a key role in helping Western Province to the Vodacom Cup title.

That form saw the emerging star make his Super Rugby debut in the 19-14 win over the Bulls at Loftus Versfeld.

However he is now set to make the switch to the Heineken Cup champions, with Leinster having been keen to bolster their second row options following the departure of Brad Thorn.

Leinster have already recruited Tom Denton from Leeds, with the likes of Leo Cullen and Devin Toner already established at the club and Mark Flanagan coming through the ranks.

Roux would be the latest rising star to quit South Africa for Ireland, with Bulls back-rower CJ Stander having opted to join up with Munster

Rory_Gallagher wrote:How long is SOB going to be out? And why is he going under the knife? That sucks.

According to sky he is a major doubt for the november internationals

Expected to miss the first two rounds of the Heineken Cup and possibly the November tests Rory.

I do think we are placing increasingly impossible demands on the bodies of players. It's going a wee bit far.

Apparently this injury has been known since the 6nations. And is one of the reasons floated for his regression in terms of ball carrying.

It's his hip btw.

Well he has done pretty damn well this tour considering. He was the best irish player over the 3 tests IMO. I hope he comes back even better than ever. Will Ferris be back for the november tests?

HammerofThunor wrote:I really don't understand why (some) people think that guys like Denton are fine, because at least one of his recent ancestors happened to be born in Ireland, but guys like Auva'a aren't, even though it sounds like he immigrated to Ireland, started playing rugby and worked his way up the system.

Does it matter whether Denton qualifies via a long line of proud Irish folk on both sides or whether one set of great-grandparents lived there a year for work and happened to have a kid there.

He is ginger if that makes a difference.

In my opinion they're both fine but I'd take someone like Auva'a over Denton every time (obviously depending on quality). And anyone trying to poke fun at the Provinces for playing foriegn players has GOT to be joking. By far and away the most self-reliant pro 'club' system in the NH (out of the top ones, not sure about Georgia and Russia). Yes the "project player" thing can sound a bit distasteful (and completely unneccessary) but it's hardly corrupting the whole thing.

Totally disagree. Denton has Irish blood and would have always been aware of his roots. Auva'a is from the other side of the world. Its not too much to ask for Irish people to play in the national team since they're supposed to represent Irish people. Otherwise international rugby is becoming like clubs sides.

profitius wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Mickado wrote:Struass will be IQ by October. Denton is IQ by Irish parentage and Auva'a came to Ireland to work years ago started playing for Old Belvedere and then got a pro contract. He's IQ too.

Well, well, I would say nothing about any other nation then, also what are the odds of them being capped by Ireland or is it a case of Leisnter flaunting the rules ?

Irish people can't be point fingers at other teams because they'd play non Irish too, no problem. I've seen it raised a few times lately about project players. Some of us don't want any and think it devalues the jersey, others are saying that other teams are doing it so we should too. Thats a poor argument to make.

Denton has Irish blood so he is fine by me.

Sorry but this is horsesh1t . by that logic, tom waldrom is fine despite living his whole life without knowing g he had an English granny. but manu tuilagi is not despite living there since he was 11?
sorry but this is horessh1t.

Just watched the Link mick put up and this boy looks like a great signing...credit to our boys for finding this fella

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Mickado wrote:Struass will be IQ by October. Denton is IQ by Irish parentage and Auva'a came to Ireland to work years ago started playing for Old Belvedere and then got a pro contract. He's IQ too.

Well, well, I would say nothing about any other nation then, also what are the odds of them being capped by Ireland or is it a case of Leisnter flaunting the rules ?

Dowlais - get off your high horse, nobody has said anything about any other nation in this thread. Take your irritating remarks elsewhere. Auva'a has been in Ireland for years as far as I know. Strauss is the only guy who is IQ by 3 year residency and may play for Ireland. I doubt he will ever be a starter though, plus I think Cronin is better anyway.

Also, the NIQs have been reduced by one this year for the provinces.

First off rory, there is no need to get agressive, secondly I am not on any kind of high horse, lastly when did I refer to people on this thread ? What I have read on this forum in the past is, Irish fans having a pop at New Zealand for poaching and havig a go at England for using players like Hape, Tuilagi, Barrit amongst others, it might not have been you but I have read it. If you think my remarks are irritating tthen do not read them.

Firstly, I'm not even being aggressive, just telling you to get off your high horse. Secondly, when have irish fans done that? Who? Anyone on this thread? You are just stirring up crap for no reason. Leave it.

I don't think Irish fans have ever had a pop off people for that. I don't think we care too much. It seems a good deal of people don't want the likes of Strauss playing for Ireland.

Having a pop at the English for playing Hape, Waldrom, Vianikolo etc. is pretty easy to do in fairness, plenty of irish fans have mentioned it. maybe none on this thread but he’s got a point in fairness.

What point? Apart from the fact I haven't seen anyone mention those guys, we haven't actually played any project players yet anyway.

Can we stick to to topic guys? Its bad enough we have these pointless arguments with sin in the irish threads

Yes but the very fact that we have “project players” is an admission that if our players were good enough, we’d play them ourselves. Restrictions on foreign players are much tighter in Ireland than in England, they let the clubs sign whoever they want and if they have no international caps, and have been there for 3 years, they’re in the mix. We set aside a spot in each provincial squad for a player who could play for us. There’s a difference. The fact that we haven’t played any of them yet is more to do with the fact that in general our imports are of a higher standard because we can’t have as many of them, so they’re more likely to be capped in the first place.

"Hey English fans! You have many foreign players, no? HAHA!"

Sorry, the above was a joke. Just want to justify any future disparaging remarks about Irish fans in advance

Plenty of fans of all nations have had shown some disdain for capping players qualified on residency. You can spot the hypocrites pretty easily. They are the ones who turn a blind eye when it's their side doing the 'poaching'.

Personally I have no problem with residency, I just feel the residency period needs to be extended. Three years makes the system to open to abuse with mercenaries of dubious connection to the country their representing beginning to crop up in Tier One teams now. It makes it too easy for a rich nation or one of their leading clubs to get a promising rugby player from a lower tier nation and 'convert' him. Its a problem in the game and whilst the rules are the way they are, these guys will be picked. I just feel the IRB needs to look at it.

Well from what I have gathered on these forums, not very many irish fans here are too fond of the project player thing. Including myself. Even if the likes of Payne or Strauss end up being the best options in each position, I would still rather choose an irishman.

I would have been okay with Warwick playing for Ireland is he could. He took up Irish citizenship, and has an Irish partner I believe.

Personally I have no problem with residency, I just feel the residency period needs to be extended. Three years makes the system to open to abuse with mercenaries of dubious connection to the country their representing beginning to crop up in Tier One teams now. It makes it too easy for a rich nation or one of their leading clubs to get a promising rugby player from a lower tier nation and 'convert' him. Its a problem in the game and whilst the rules are the way they are, these guys will be picked. I just feel the IRB needs to look at it.

+1. Move the residency to 5 years. That would be a quick way to make sure there's no easy residency arrangements and that players actually have to stay in the country they wish to represent for a decent period of time before doning the jersey.

Having a pop at the English for playing Hape, Waldrom, Vianikolo etc.

To be fair Waldrom's decision to be available to England wasn't very popular. Cockers gave an interview stating that he had "halved his value".

How long was Warwick with Munster? The thing is, if someone like Stander did end up IQ, you have to question why he would want to play for Ireland. It seems that money is what dragged him out of a potential SA career (he was likely to get capped next season apparently). Would you be happy with him playing for Ireland if he had the opportunity?

He was with Connacht for 2 years and Munster for 4 I think. I don't really want Stander to play for Ireland.

I was hoping for a more experienced lock. Still though, Toner did improve a lot last year. I'm not sure we really needed Thorn to be honest, although he was undoubtedly an asset.

We didn't have Thorn in the pool and topped it easily. We certainly didn't need him that much when we walloped Cardiff in the quarters and Ulster in the semi's (edit: sorry I mean the final. doh!). Would we have beaten Clermont without Thorn? It was a close game, but I think we were the better team, especially our backs, which was decisive.

O.k I apologise if I have offended anyone, that is the last thing I wanted, but some of you Irish fans on here really need to stop being so precious. I have seen irish posters on here taking shots at other nations for "poaching" and I still stand behind my beliefs on this "project" player issue in ANY NATION, anyway I will not mention it anymore, at least until the next project player is announced.

Feckless, from an outside point of view it looked like Thorn added some real power to your scrum and by getting in there an upping the workload of the second row he freed up your backrow a bit more so they could go do their thing. A very handy signing for Leinster last season.

Toner and Cullen seem a bit similar to me, both are in the more athletic/lineout leader style second row where as Thorn offered that more physical enforcer style option. I'm guessing that's what Leinster are trying to recruit here.

Cullen isn't that athletic. He has been trying to be the enforcer for the last 2 seasons but can't pull it off. I respect the guy hugely and he puts in 100% (don't buy into the impossible 110% effort level) every time he takes the field.

But he is getting old.
And is carrying more injuries.
I don't think he gets through this next season without a layoff (probably injury related).

Denton replaces the seasoned journeyman that was Browne. This kid is being brought in to fill the Hines/Sykes/Thorn lineage. The key to that was experience and leadership. I think this move shows that Joe might be willing to put more faith in Toner this coming season.

I'm not completely sold on the move.

I really don't think Cullen is "trying to be the enforcer" for the last 2 years.

Last year it was Brad Thorn and the year before it was Nathan Hines.

Your man Flanagan looks like the enforcer type. He looks massive.

Cullen doesn't seem to be able to play a full 80 minutes anymore.

Hope this guy is good. I had once completely written off Toner as rubbish, but he was much better this year. He looks like he needs to continue to bulk up even more though.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

profitius wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Mickado wrote:Struass will be IQ by October. Denton is IQ by Irish parentage and Auva'a came to Ireland to work years ago started playing for Old Belvedere and then got a pro contract. He's IQ too.

Well, well, I would say nothing about any other nation then, also what are the odds of them being capped by Ireland or is it a case of Leisnter flaunting the rules ?

Irish people can't be point fingers at other teams because they'd play non Irish too, no problem. I've seen it raised a few times lately about project players. Some of us don't want any and think it devalues the jersey, others are saying that other teams are doing it so we should too. Thats a poor argument to make.

Denton has Irish blood so he is fine by me.

Sorry but this is horsesh1t . by that logic, tom waldrom is fine despite living his whole life without knowing g he had an English granny. but manu tuilagi is not despite living there since he was 11?
sorry but this is horessh1t.

I think your opinion is horsesh!t!! Tuilagi is living and playing in England because of money. Waldrom is part English so he has English blood. It doesn't matter if he never knew, the point is he wouldn't even exist without his English grandparent!

Did he only sign a 1 year contract?

Mickado wrote:Apparently this injury has been known since the 6nations. And is one of the reasons floated for his regression in terms of ball carrying.

It's his hip btw.

It was actually known around christmas time and Sean has done little or no contact training since. Sean was a bit over used by both Leinster and Ireland this season.

So Tom Waldrom came over from nz because of a granny that he didn't know about and nothing to do with money?

So Tom Waldrom came over from nz because of a granny that he didn't know about and nothing to do with money?

He came over because he was annoyed by the lack of interest shown in him by the AB coaches. Tigers needed another 8 and so he took the move. His first contract at Tigers would have not been very big as he was signed as a squad player. The granny thing was a bit of a revelation once he arrived and the Tigers management are rumoured to have played hard ball with him over his new contract because of his availability for England (they would have preferred 1 EQ and 1 NEQ number 8s).

formerly known as Sam wrote:

So Tom Waldrom came over from nz because of a granny that he didn't know about and nothing to do with money?

He came over because he was annoyed by the lack of interest shown in him by the AB coaches. Tigers needed another 8 and so he took the move. His first contract at Tigers would have not been very big as he was signed as a squad player. The granny thing was a bit of a revelation once he arrived and the Tigers management are rumoured to have played hard ball with him over his new contract because of his availability for England (they would have preferred 1 EQ and 1 NEQ number 8s).

Does make a bit of a contradiction with everyone who said your culture plays a role if you have grandparents in the UK.

Especially if you didn't even know that.

I think his grandmother emigrated and gave birth and raised his mum in NZ. His parents were Kiwi's and I think his other grandparents are as well. Unless his Nan mentioned it there was no way he was going to know. I can't see him getting many caps to be honest but he's a decent club player now that Tigers have added some to his game.

The granny in question was only born in England as well, no? I'm not sure she was actually English. I think that needs to be questioned. Fair enough if you play for your own country of birth, but I'm not sure why your parents/grandparents country of birth comes into it.

biltongbek wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

So Tom Waldrom came over from nz because of a granny that he didn't know about and nothing to do with money?

He came over because he was annoyed by the lack of interest shown in him by the AB coaches. Tigers needed another 8 and so he took the move. His first contract at Tigers would have not been very big as he was signed as a squad player. The granny thing was a bit of a revelation once he arrived and the Tigers management are rumoured to have played hard ball with him over his new contract because of his availability for England (they would have preferred 1 EQ and 1 NEQ number 8s).

Does make a bit of a contradiction with everyone who said your culture plays a role if you have grandparents in the UK.

Especially if you didn't even know that.

My point exactly.

Personally my view is that it is too dificult to have a reliable "test" to tell a players motivation in declaring for a national team. So we have to have rules. Once the rules are decided it is a waste of time arguing for or against a particular player. You can change the rules. eg. Parents only no grandparents OR 5 years not 3 for residency.

But it is useless to argue about a players motivations once they fulfil the criteria. It is always just someone's opinion, and unless you know the guy for 20 years you cannot be sure you have the right opinion.

Saying Waldrom is more deserving than Tuilagi is nonsense in my opinion. Or visa versa.

Supposing a person finds out he/she was adopted as a child. They then start to research their roots and find that they came from another country etc. In most cases it would matter and be important to them to know who their parents/ancestors were.

According to some people it should not matter because they've lived in a different country all their lives and were not emotionally invested in their country of origin.

profitius wrote:Supposing a person finds out he/she was adopted as a child. They then start to research their roots and find that they came from another country etc. In most cases it would matter and be important to them to know who their parents/ancestors were.

According to some people it should not matter because they've lived in a different country all their lives and were not emotionally invested in their country of origin.

Pretty much, yeah.

The cut off is arbitary. It has to be somewhere because you can't take each on a case by case basis. Someone who's entire family is from Ireland but they moved over at great-grandparents level. All of the lower family were born in England so the person is only English qualified, even though they all feel themselves Irish. Contrast that with someone who is Irish qualifed because one grand parent was born their while their parent was stationed there with the army. Only there for a year before moving back to England. Is that fair or 'right'? Not really but tough Poopie because the line has to somewhere.

The ONLY reason I wouldn't advocate scrapping 'blood/birth qualification' completely is because it would destroy the rugby teams of weaker economic countries where people often move away for work (e.g. PI to New Zealand/Australia/UK). If we could have different rules I would want English qualification be soley based on residency. Something like '10 years residency and you stay qualified, 5 years if you live there now'.

Feckless Rogue wrote:Cullen doesn't seem to be able to play a full 80 minutes anymore.

Hope this guy is good. I had once completely written off Toner as rubbish, but he was much better this year. He looks like he needs to continue to bulk up even more though.

His height hides it alot though (at 6' 10"). The guy was 120kg (18st 11lb) at the start of last season. You get any heavier than that and it will start going against you being lifted in the lineouts. I think he bulked up a bit during last season as well.

What he has improved on is how he takes the ball into contact. He used to be very upright and would look like a giraffe getting mauled by lions in the tackle. Now he seems to meet shoulder with shoulder and is more likely to drive through people with that technique. He got quicker at ball presentation/retention/body-positioning on the ground as well.

Why did we only give this guy a 1 year contract? Should we not be looking to sign a second row that will be looking to be at leinster for a long time?

I would prefer if Leinster promoted Irish guys rather than some South African. Same for all the provinces.

Thomond wrote:I would prefer if Leinster promoted Irish guys rather than some South African. Same for all the provinces.

Since when are leinster not promoting young irish players...

It's mainly second row where they struggle for Irish guys, there's a few problems there. Maybe they should try promote the likes of Mike Kearney instead. I'm not having a cut off Leinster, they were blocked from signing Ryan apparently, they same Munster couldn't sign Ruddock.

Thomond wrote:It's mainly second row where they struggle for Irish guys, there's a few problems there. Maybe they should try promote the likes of Mike Kearney instead. I'm not having a cut off Leinster, they were blocked from signing Ryan apparently, they same Munster couldn't sign Ruddock.

Munster couldnt sign ruddock because he didnt want to leave he felt as though he was getting enough game time at leinster. We are developing irish 2nd rows look at toner and flanagan. Both are developing into very good players. Toner said he was happy thorn was there because he was learning so much from him.

Didn't know it was a 1 year contract. Maybe Leinster want to make sure he's working out before committing to a longer contract, after what happened with Sykes.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Well from what I have gathered on these forums, not very many irish fans here are too fond of the project player thing. Including myself. Even if the likes of Payne or Strauss end up being the best options in each position, I would still rather choose an irishman.

I feel the same Rory but does that not make us a little bit racist?
Ah well sure we're Ulster fans and we all know we're nothing but a bunch of racist ....... spides???


I am a big fan of buying in top talent to our provincial clubs as I have no doubt that it betters all those around them. God-given talent has a habit of rubbing off on fellow players so as long as we can attract the big names I'll always support bringing in foreign players especially when they immerse themselves in the club and it's ethos. The Ulster lads have really bought into the whole Ulster way of life and the shirt which is so satisfying to see. Project players don't generally make it onto the Irish side anyway for one reason or another but I can see Jared Payne buck that trend as soon as he gains residency in 2 seasons time so watch this space.

I have said this on another thread regarding poaching, this is not directed any specific union, but I will use the words, all our unions, what if somebody won the big euromillions jackpot say 150 million, then they decided to buy a rugby club, then sent out scouts to the SH to find the next Dan Carter/Richie McCaw and told these say 19 year olds to come and play for my club and I will give you a million pounds each, but you must not represent your country of birth as there is an unwritten rule that frowns on non qualified players, but if you want, I will chuck in an extra half a million and you can declare for my country in three years and everything is fine. Now I would not blame the players for doing this because as individuals it is their right, and they are doing nothing wrong,legaly, morally it's another question. But what has happened here is one country has lost two potentially world class players and another country has blocked the way of a youngster in this part of the world making a name for himself. For me, the only "projects" that should be going on within our unions are those to encourage kids in deprived areas to take up the game. P.S I am sorry for posting this as it has nothing to do with the title of the post, but we were all talking about it so I just wanted to add my tuppence.

Thomond wrote:I would prefer if Leinster promoted Irish guys rather than some South African. Same for all the provinces.

LordDowlais wrote:I have said this on another thread regarding poaching, this is not directed any specific union, but I will use the words, all our unions, what if somebody won the big euromillions jackpot say 150 million, then they decided to buy a rugby club, then sent out scouts to the SH to find the next Dan Carter/Richie McCaw and told these say 19 year olds to come and play for my club and I will give you a million pounds each, but you must not represent your country of birth as there is an unwritten rule that frowns on non qualified players, but if you want, I will chuck in an extra half a million and you can declare for my country in three years and everything is fine. Now I would not blame the players for doing this because as individuals it is their right, and they are doing nothing wrong,legaly, morally it's another question. But what has happened here is one country has lost two potentially world class players and another country has blocked the way of a youngster in this part of the world making a name for himself. For me, the only "projects" that should be going on within our unions are those to encourage kids in deprived areas to take up the game. P.S I am sorry for posting this as it has nothing to do with the title of the post, but we were all talking about it so I just wanted to add my tuppence.

Nice post lordowlais.