Roland Garros - Day 10

First topic message reminder :

Thought I'd take my turn.

Djokovic v Tsonga.

Could stretch Noles nerves, as he'll have the crowd very much against him, which he's been known to be a bit funny about. Djokovic in 4.

Federer v Del Potro.

Fed may approach this with more confidence than he would have Berdych, as he seems to have been owning JMDP this year. Then again, he did him up like a kipper at AO 2009 and was lucky to get past him at the French. The cold damp conditions may help Del Boy too. However I think Federer will move the big man around more than he likes. Fed in 4, maybe 5 though I think it may be one of those annoying matches where he looks weak.


Do I have to do the Womens? No, I should;

Cibulkova v Stosaur

Stosaur. In 3 interminable sets.

Errani v Kerber

I have no idea who these people are.

Banbrotam, ok I'm being a little tongue in cheek but I've said many times on here that I don't believe Lendl was the right hire. For example I said this on May 23rd... https://www.606v2.com/t29575-lendl-murray-is-it-working#1238528

My last comment about gains actually wasn't a slight on Murray, more that I don't see whatbLendl is bringing to Andy over say what he was doing in 2011. Do you see anything different?

I said "not quite" about Murray's willpower. I think anyone would be amazed if Murray's will was on the same level as Lendl's which was legendary given his talent wasn't as obvious as Murray's.

Re: Gasquet, do you think Lendl was brought on board to help Murray beat the Gasquets of this world, or make serious inroads into the top3 to get a shot at the thing he doesnt have to date? Clearly it was the latter. Ok, it been 6 mths so perhaps too soon to see th difference yet but I don't see any gains yet...if anything I wouldn't have expected him to lose that first set 6-1 last year. What is this 'in form' Gasquet talk? Just because he bet Murray in Rome? Ok, he reached Estoril final but none others in 2012, his W:L is about the same as previous years. Let's not use Gasquet as a barometer of Andy's form, we know the guy in slams is next to useless as he never gets beyond R4 anywhere after all these years on tour...ok, one SF at Wimb in 2007.

The true tests lie ahead...let's see how he fares against Ferrer then revisit this.

banbrotam wrote:

hawkeye wrote:I'm sure even you know that Murray doesn't have the talent and skill to play the same way as an all time great.

Therin lies the problem. Only non-Murray fans compare him to the all time greats, given that he's just turned 25 and is probably only half through his career

Fans of Murray see him as a great player, but not quite up there with Fed, Nadal, Sampras, Agassi, Mac and Lendl. Skills wise he often plays as well as these in spurts (i.e. yesterday for an hour) but not for the vital three hours that all these have done in Slam finals at times

Murray performed an outrageous drop shot with a ball coming at him a pace, from the deuce court behind the tram line - if that's not worthy of respect, then you're no Tennis fan

That's not fair. You have taken my quote out of context.

hawkeye wrote:
Huh! Why do non Murray fans have to be constructive?

Well, why not?

hawkeye wrote:

banbrotam wrote:

hawkeye wrote:I'm sure even you know that Murray doesn't have the talent and skill to play the same way as an all time great.

Therin lies the problem. Only non-Murray fans compare him to the all time greats, given that he's just turned 25 and is probably only half through his career

Fans of Murray see him as a great player, but not quite up there with Fed, Nadal, Sampras, Agassi, Mac and Lendl. Skills wise he often plays as well as these in spurts (i.e. yesterday for an hour) but not for the vital three hours that all these have done in Slam finals at times

Murray performed an outrageous drop shot with a ball coming at him a pace, from the deuce court behind the tram line - if that's not worthy of respect, then you're no Tennis fan

That's not fair. You have taken my quote out of context.

Greatness, like Beauty, also lies in the eyes of the Beholder.

Murray for me will only become a great player of his generation like Fed, Rafa and Novak when he does it under pressure in a Grand Slam Final. For me is is just below that rung at the moment

lydian wrote:Banbrotam, ok I'm being a little tongue in cheek but I've said many times on here that I don't believe Lendl was the right hire. For example I said this on May 23rd... https://www.606v2.com/t29575-lendl-murray-is-it-working#1238528

My last comment about gains actually wasn't a slight on Murray, more that I don't see whatbLendl is bringing to Andy over say what he was doing in 2011. Do you see anything different?

I said "not quite" about Murray's willpower. I think anyone would be amazed if Murray's will was on the same level as Lendl's which was legendary given his talent wasn't as obvious as Murray's.

Re: Gasquet, do you think Lendl was brought on board to help Murray beat the Gasquets of this world, or make serious inroads into the top3 to get a shot at the thing he doesnt have to date? Clearly it was the latter. Ok, it been 6 mths so perhaps too soon to see th difference yet but I don't see any gains yet...if anything I wouldn't have expected him to lose that first set 6-1 last year. What is this 'in form' Gasquet talk? Just because he bet Murray in Rome? Ok, he reached Estoril final but none others in 2012, his W:L is about the same as previous years. Let's not use Gasquet as a barometer of Andy's form, we know the guy in slams is next to useless as he never gets beyond R4 anywhere after all these years on tour...ok, one SF at Wimb in 2007.

The true tests lie ahead...let's see how he fares against Ferrer then revisit this.

Good to see the 'normal' Lydian back and I apologise for sounding pompous at what were, admittedley, obvious glib comments

I think we have to understand that Murray's current condition (the genuine - for me as a Murray fan - back problem, remember it held Fed back for a while in 08/9) which means we can't really guage what the progress was

However, I actually think the significance of yesterday's victory was not that Gasquet has no Plan B (that's his problem. similar to Fed who from a skills point of view he somewhat apes - but of course he's physically and mentally far weaker) but the manner of how he won. I was almost screaming a the telly in the first set as the forehand broke down time after time or Gasquet guessed and had an open court to. But Murray did something that he's not done before, when under pressure, stuck to the plan. This for me is a signifcant, albeit subtle change - he obviously now believes in his forehand and that is definitely progress

I don't think he's fit enough and frankly I've no issue with him losing to Ferrer. I mentioned a while ago that a Murray carrying injuries at RG is almost wasting his time. For me, the big test will be the up coming hard court season - leading up to O2, where he excelled last year and hence has tons of points to defend!!

Finally, in fairness to Andy - I don't think he wanted (or needed) a coach who was going to radically change his game (i.e. like Nole got with Todd Martin ) what he needs is someone to give him a better forehand.

Courier (don't you think he's easily the most intelligent of the summarisers) excellently sums up by saying the test will come, when he meets the Top 3

This year, under Lendl hasn't been too bad. A closed SF at Aus with Nole and beating the Serb a few weeks later. I think he genuinely is looking for this spell with Lendl as the final tweak that will stand him in good stead for the next 5 years, when there is no reason why a sweet timer like him can't make it his best ones

We will see

Cool banbrotam
Good points, yes he did stick to a game plan which is good and either that caused Gasquet to self-implode or Gasquet just can't handle a lead vs a top player. No self-belief either way. Fitness wise I don't know where to gauge him...stamina looks ok but have no idea about the back.

Yes I like Courier, a clever guy...remember him reading books on court at change of ends later in his career? Petchy is good too, and they make a good pairing. We'll see at Wimb and USO (if not this RG!)...but I do think he still needs to work on that 2nd serve most critically.

I still don't think Lendl is the 'one' but let's see as you say.
Interesting times ahead

Matts Wilander says it is only a matter of time with Murray to win a slam - he just needs to keep on believing in himself and take the opportunity when it does arise.

I am watching replays. I thought Djoko was so very gutsy in that 4th set down 5-6 and matchpoints, and then a few more matchpoints in the tie-breaker. You have to admire the way he plays the crucial points so decisively. You see why he keeps winning the slam titles.

JMDP reminded me of Marat Safin, for his temperament.

Nore Staat wrote:Matts Wilander says it is only a matter of time with Murray to win a slam - he just needs to keep on believing in himself and take the opportunity when it does arise.

That's too bad, things were starting to look up for Andy.

Still, he hasn't been tipped yet by Simon Reed. Has he?

Confirmed, both men's semis on Friday, not 1 Thurs, 1 Fri.
http://www.rolandgarros.com/en_FR/about/schedule.html
Wonder who will get PC and Lenglen...presume Djo/Fed on PC.

Due to me working today I never saw any of the tennis and followed it on various phone apps. By all accounts two cracking matches (especially the Tsonga/Djokovic match). Once more Djokovic showed why he has been so difficult to beat in slams of late with that ability to produce something extra special when it is most needed. Federer's comeback was always on the cards as soon as he won the third set and (by accounts I've heard) Del Potro's injured knee hampered him. Federer though done the business and lives to fight another day.

lydian wrote:Confirmed, both men's semis on Friday, not 1 Thurs, 1 Fri.
http://www.rolandgarros.com/en_FR/about/schedule.html
Wonder who will get PC and Lenglen...presume Djo/Fed on PC.

I'm somewhat confused, won't both men's semi final be on PC? Weren't both played on PC last year? The Link says '2 Mens Singles' so I'd have thought that means that they'll both be played on the same court?

Does Djokovic being the No.1 seed mean that his match vs Fed will be played first? That's what happened last year (Nadal played first as the No.1 seed). Although Wimbledon played the Nadal-Murray match after Djoko-Tsonga last year, probably due to the former having more interest, so might they switch the order and put Djoko-Fed on after Nadal (assuming he goes through, which is most likely)?

I am pretty sure both matches will be on PC (assuming no massive rain delays requiring rescheduling), that is what the link says too.

Did not get to see any tennis today (no holiday in my neck of the woods) but taking a day off on Friday and hoping to see both matches.

Frankly, I do not have very high hopes for Fed and am a bit worried that he could even get steamrolled, but would love to be wrong.

I am with those who think that - if he advances to the SF - Andy will actually have a better chance than what most people are assuming. Still well below 50%, obviously, but definitely a fighting chance. He needs to get there first though.

Well my pulse was racing frankly I thought that Joe willy had done enough to win the match and I had resigned myself to a dissappointing Roland Garros. And then Djokovic does the spectacular and saves 4 matches points to win the match.

I felt for Jo willy, I was very impressed with what he brought in the middle sets, during those middle sets I have never seen him hit his backhand with such authority. Best I have ever seen him hit it.

From the 2011 schedule, both SF matches were on PC.

http://2011.rolandgarros.com/en_FR/scores/schedule/schedule18.html

hawkeye wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:

hawkeye wrote:

emancipator wrote:Call me crazy, but I think if Murray can get past Ferrer (I think he will) then he has a shot at Nadal.

Ha ha! But could he get by either of them by playing tennis? You know that simple game with a raquet and ball and no added extras.

The Rafa way?

legendkillar. I'm sure even you know that Murray doesn't have the talent and skill to play the same way as an all time great.

The original Drama Queen