Gareth Davies (Scarlets Scrum Half) and Ashley Beck (Ospreys Centre)

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Gareth Davies (Scarlets Scrum Half) and Ashley Beck (Ospreys Centre)

Good players. Repeat... Good players. Right.

These two have to start v the Barbarians and as many Wales games as possible this year. Both of these players have had great seasons and should be rewarded.

Howley will pick Webb and Lloyd Williams ahead of Davies however. Ashley Beck might play but he'll be 4th or possibly 5th in the pecking order when the slowcoach Jamie Roberts returns and James Hook renews his tan and flutters his eyelashes.

Based on what I have seen, yes. Can't fault Gareth for anything this season, I can only praise him.

Because everyone needs to improve no matter what they are doing.

As long as you can confirm that you just think he is Rabo class, but barely that as he too suffers from Tavis' headless chicken syndrome.

Players are suffering with this niggles and injuries because we play too many games in a season. It's not the fault of being called up to the Wales squad.

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

I'd say if you've seen G Davies have a flawless season and never seen Knoyle have a good game, for Wales or the Scarlets, then you either haven't been watching that much of either or you're seeing what you want to see.

There are many Scarlets fans on here who have seen probably most of both's games (this season GD last season TK) and all think Knoyle is a good SH and we're lucky to have him.

G Davies looks very good and has had a good breakthrough season, however he can be inconsistent, sometimes his defence is suspect, he has good, quick service and a nice turn of pace though sometimes he can be slow to get the ball out of a retreating scrum - however he offers sharp darting runs from the base and I see him continuing to improve and iron out the chinks.

Good place to be

Well it is as simple as this really. Knoyle consistently makes errors like kicking it out on the full, knocking on around the fringes, looking for contact with big forwards instead of avoiding it whilst having poor service and running around like a headless chicken. Gareth plays consistently well, yes he can make an error but who doesn't? Just nowhere near the level of Tav. Perhaps most importantly, GD's service is excellent.

And yeah Scarlet fans would say that. They say it about every one of their players. You all think Andy Fenby is on the brink of being world class right?

Correct about the retreating scrum, just goes to show how well Davies has been playing. He can only get better, as will Tavis hopefully. The Scarlets are most DEFINITELY the team who can get the best out of each player.

You mean In Your Opinion TK runs around like a headless chicken, and G Davies has had a flawless season.

And If Scarlets fans think all our players are amazing, why are we saying that G Davies needs to develop more, or that Tavis needs to improve? That surely seems to disprove that theory.

I've never seen any Scarlets say Fenby is anything other than Rabo class, and personally most of the time I don't think he's that - it's only when he's on form that he brings positives to the team and he still makes mistakes.

And the comment about suffering from being called up to the Wales squad is for the same reason G North, D James, D Jones & M Jones all suffered from being called up - ie they were carrying knocks and niggles but got put through intense training session, played an international and got injured without the recuperation time needed to recover to fully fitness.

HELLLOOOOooooooo Maes, Dreamer, Priest, Spidey, Samurai and all the other Guys Gals and Students

Well been out of the uk for best part of five weeks on business, ARGHHHHH missed one of the most important games in our history (Edinburghs Heini semi-final) , and missed the chats on the Rabbo and AP matches

That was bad but on the good side watched James Hook have a very good game for Perpignan (Samurai you would have had a ball there )

However some things never change............ phew! such sweeping statements from one so young

Firstly opinions are not facts, even a student should realise that, secondly Maes, Dreamer, Priest. Spidey, Alyn, Samurai are always a good source of debate because they have either played, or watch matches (both live and on the tele) for many a good while........ I think Maes has been watching rugby since the 1800s ............. so a tad bit of respect lad

Thirdly many of the Scarlets watch Tarvis and Gareth week in week out, and I have been lucky enough to watch both on a number of occasions over the last few seasons. I would agree with Maes and the majority of others when both players are on form Knoyle is the better player, he plays to a high intensity, is always agressive in offense and defence, has a good nose for a try, tackles above his weight and height (what 6ft 1in). I have been more and more impressed with Davies as he develops, but his form (unlike morgannwg states) has not been consistent it has in fact been up and down over the last two seasons. The massive difference in the two is that Tarvis somehow has to improve his static pass from the scrum, this is where Gareth wins hands down. TBH there is not much between these two players.

I would say one over-riding aspect of Knoyles persona is when I heard his interview a few years ago when he had MOM, he said that he was far from been even close to Phillips as a player and was way off even regional level, and that the next few season was very much a learning curve, listening to his fellow players and regional and international coaches, THAT IMPRESSED ME. He is a lad who will listen and keep his head down, and work on his weaknesses

I still believe that once he gets his pass working, he will be your most obvious choice both at regional and international levels in 2012 and onwards

flyhalf, how old do you think I am?

[quote="Morgannwg"]flyhalf, how old do you think I am? [/quote

Do you know what, its never really crossed my mind, but based on your input style on this site I would say 19-24

Yeah, pretty spot on. I was born in 89. I don't consider myself young . Would like to be 18 again, so seeing such statements does bring a smile to my face . Scarlet fans never agree when I point out the flaws in one of their players so I'm used to being disagreed with. I gave an opinion based on observations throughout both of these players short (so far) careers.

flyhalffactory wrote: I think Maes has been watching rugby since the 1800s ............. so a tad bit of respect lad

Easy there pall...

1850's thank you very much...!

Ha ha ha

Morgannwg wrote:Yeah, pretty spot on. I was born in 89. I don't consider myself young . Would like to be 18 again, so seeing such statements does bring a smile to my face . Scarlet fans never agree when I point out the flaws in one of their players so I'm used to being disagreed with. I gave an opinion based on observations throughout both of these players short (so far) careers.

It shows how old I am that I consider that youngish though I was only born in 1983!

And Morg - I've already pointed out that the Scarlets do see flaws in their own players and have agreed on you on one of the 2 examples you cared to give (Fenby) the other one (Knoyle) I've yet to see a poster agree with your damning indictment of him.

Most other posters have also given their opinons based on a few seasons worth of observations of following the players seeing most of their games.

Nice to see you back FHF!

Smirnoffpriest wrote:Nice to see you back FHF!

Yes I agree... The Exiled voice of reason on everything Welsh bar Stephen Jones..

maestegmafia wrote:

Smirnoffpriest wrote:Nice to see you back FHF!

Yes I agree... The Exiled voice of reason on everything Welsh and especially Stephen Jones..

Fixed

What? He's just pro-scarlet, which is why he is so popular around this neck of the woods...

rugbydreamer wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Smirnoffpriest wrote:Nice to see you back FHF!

Yes I agree... The Exiled voice of reason on everything Welsh and especially Stephen Jones..

Fixed

RD

I have thought FHF is actually Wellies agent... He promotes the mans abilities with such passion.

Morg, expect FHF to become quite the WASPS fan next season mate...! ha ha ha ha

Morgannwg wrote:What? He's just pro-scarlet, which is why he is so popular around this neck of the woods...

Firstly thanks everyone for the welcome back

Now for you morgannwg.....
Worked for around 4 yrs (actually providing advice to the Assembly on a few things, one of which was sports & social funding, so I kinda have done a bit of research on rugby in this neck of the woods) in Wales.

Spent a fair bit of time surfing (much too old for it really), and mainly watching the Ospreys, with the odd Scarlets match thrown in, this was primarily down to location (rented house on the Mumbles due to the potential to surf when poss).

So my young man I more inclined to favour the Os, however over the last three seasons have been drawn to the Scarlets principles of regionalism, and Nigel Davies's style of free flowing rugby (been a fast flowing gazelle of a 18st blindside myself!! )

So morgannwg, it would be fair to say I look for the Os review first when I have five mins, closely followed by the Scarlets, and NGDs

I don't like bias (I am advocating we play Glasgows Weir at 10 even tho Laidlaw plays at flyhalf for the 'burgh) or sweeping statements in any form, and most on here would know I speak my mind (Jones v Hook!!), and was banging the drum for Charteris long before he become in vogue for Wales, always disappointed that Brew hasnt been given more chances at international level, and I like Steffan Jones potential.

So no I am not biased towards the Scarlets, but certainly think they are the most progressive region

ps 1850s..... Maes I always knew you were a mere wippersnapper

maestegmafia wrote:

rugbydreamer wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Smirnoffpriest wrote:Nice to see you back FHF!

Yes I agree... The Exiled voice of reason on everything Welsh and especially Stephen Jones..

Fixed

RD

I have thought FHF is actually Wellies agent... He promotes the mans abilities with such passion.

Morg, expect FHF to become quite the WASPS fan next season mate...! ha ha ha ha

Damn caught out........ dont tell the Taxman its only a part-time job, expect Dracula to punt Wasps to the AP title, get the Welsh 10 jersey back winning you the 6Ns for the next fours seasons, and rounding it off with a WC winning performance

You heard it here............

Ha ha ha...!

Smirnoffpriest wrote:It shows how old I am that I consider that youngish though I was only born in 1983!

Ah but Priest you are old, your almost 30!!

FlyHalf - Glad to see you back here. But I must be honest I reckon you stayed off here to avoid the Embra hype/slagging during their HEC run, go on be honest.

wow this thread is making me feel ancient

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Smirnoffpriest wrote:It shows how old I am that I consider that youngish though I was only born in 1983!

Ah but Priest you are old, your almost 30!!

FlyHalf - Glad to see you back here. But I must be honest I reckon you stayed off here to avoid the Embra hype/slagging during their HEC run, go on be honest.

Yes but in my mind I'm in the first year of uni and am young enough to be out on the town everynight and still have the energy to run around the next morning (actually I've never had the energy to run around but still...)

mckay1402 wrote:wow this thread is making me feel ancient

+ 1
In my mind, anyone born in the 1980's should probably still be in primary school.

So far as Knoyle and Davies are concerned, IMHO they both have the potential to be very good players, both have weeknesses which they need to address, Knoyle's version of Mike Phillips' pass and sometimes the decision making of TK and GD both make me shout obscenities. However they are both young and as someone said they are on a learning curve. If we can keep hold of both of them we will be doing well, and if we can have them playing behind a scrum that's actually going forward or at least not on roller skates, then they will both be able to show their class. Of course as we dont have any second rows left a stable scrum may be a bit of a problem.

SubsBench wrote:

mckay1402 wrote:wow this thread is making me feel ancient

+ 1
In my mind, anyone born in the 1980's should probably still be in primary school.

So far as Knoyle and Davies are concerned, IMHO they should both still be in diapers . However they are both young and as someone said they are on a learning curve. If we can keep hold of both of them we will be doing well, and if we can have them playing behind a scrum that's actually going forward or at least not on roller skates, then they will both be able to show their class. Of course as we dont have any second rows left a stable scrum may be a bit of a problem.

Fixed that for you!

Some great performances last night, Beck definitely needs a chance in Oz, Rhys Webb looks great too.

Ryan Jones was superb, as were Hibbard. Things are looking good, players are still in great form, late in the season.

Just watched the taped match, and really agree Ryan Jones was absolutely superb, Biggar and Dirksen were right up there as well

Wonderful performance from the Os

Ryan Jones and Alan Wyn were superb, the front row and Bearman also looked good. Behind Fortuali and Bishop played very well. Dirkson, Fussel and Biggar also. Beck though, looked like he was trying too hard and made a number of uncharecteristic errors.

Whilst the Ospreys were superb, Munster were rubbish, probably the worst Munster performance I have ever seen.

Seagultaf wrote:Ryan Jones and Alan Wyn were superb, the front row and Bearman also looked good. Behind Fortuali and Bishop played very well. Dirkson, Fussel and Biggar also. Beck though, looked like he was trying too hard and made a number of uncharecteristic errors.

Whilst the Ospreys were superb, Munster were rubbish, probably the worst Munster performance I have ever seen.

Old Bearman really punches above his weight, not a huge backrow but does some fine defensive work.

I have to admit I am a very big fan of Gareth Davies at 9. He is quick has a good pass, Kicks well and has an eye for a break. Not as physical as Tavis but I think he suits the scarlets style much more.

Personally I am still bemused at people who rate Tavis. His pass is slow, His kicking is poor, He often gets isolated and does not give the scarlets backline the kind of ball to attack with. For me he simply doesnt have the top two inches to cut it as a top international player. He is like the Tom James of welsh scrum halves.

Only Scarlet fans rate him Tycroes.

Morgannwg wrote:Only Scarlet fans rate him Tycroes.

But not Mr Gatland & co?

Funny how he was pushing Phillips in 2010/11 (before he was injured) according to the Welsh head coaches view, so you don't agree with them.

Could it be......... maybe you don't rate the youngster because he plays for the West Wales region?

Thats not really correct FHF, Tavis was looked at as a backup to Phillips but he was hardly pushing him for his place. Tavis, Warren Fury, Richie Rees, Gareth Cooper, Lloyd Williams and Peel all have been used as back up to Phillips in the last four years.

The reality is that since Peel's dramatic loss of form and self imposed exile in England, Wales have not had a replacement to cover Phillips. Lloyd WIlliams emergence in the last year was almost a case of last man standing although I do rate him.

Webb and Gareth Davies are both players who with Lloyd can challenge to succeed Phillips. Tavis for me simply hasnt got the same ability as the other three.

Tycroes - I wouldn't rule Tavis off so quickly - he has had 1 senior year of rugby and has plenty of time to develop. He's a feisty and talented player and with Webb offers some variation at 9. Lloyd Williams for me is a little overated

TycroesOsprey wrote:Thats not really correct FHF, Tavis was looked at as a backup to Phillips but he was hardly pushing him for his place. Tavis, Warren Fury, Richie Rees, Gareth Cooper, Lloyd Williams and Peel all have been used as back up to Phillips in the last four years.

The reality is that since Peel's dramatic loss of form and self imposed exile in England, Wales have not had a replacement to cover Phillips. Lloyd WIlliams emergence in the last year was almost a case of last man standing although I do rate him.

Webb and Gareth Davies are both players who with Lloyd can challenge to succeed Phillips. Tavis for me simply hasnt got the same ability as the other three.

We might have to disagree on the history (it often dims our memory), but I seem to recall Knoyle outplaying Phillips, Wayne Evans, and Richie Rees (albeit I watched edited highlights on either sky S4C or BBC2 Wales) in 2010/11, and I think when Phillips was been roundly criticised for his drop in form post Lions, Tarvis seemed to be pushing him.............. as I said memory dims but I think that was the case

The good thing is you guys seem to have a wealth of SH talent, Phillips, Williams, Webb, Davies, Knoyle all can do a good job. However in my opinion an on form Knoyle (apart from his dire static pass) is "potentially" better than all of them.

Time will tell...........

Tavis Knoyle will be the next welsh choice number nine I'm sure.


And I am not a Scarlets fan.

Saying that Gatland picked him isn't going to make think he isn't a crap player. This is the same coach who picked Andy Powell and JT on a consistent basis. I agree with Tycroes, Phillips jersey was never under threat. The only two capable of taking it from him are Gareth Davies and Rhys Webb. Lloyd isn't playing well, the only time he has looked good was against Namibia and Fiji.

Morgannwg wrote:Saying that Gatland picked him isn't going to make think he isn't a crap player. This is the same coach who picked Andy Powell and JT on a consistent basis. I agree with Tycroes, Phillips jersey was never under threat. The only two capable of taking it from him are Gareth Davies and Rhys Webb. Lloyd isn't playing well, the only time he has looked good was against Namibia and Fiji.

Just replying to your sweeping statement ............... "only the Scarlets fans think he is good"

Short memory morgannwg, very poor post Lions form meant that Phillips jersey was absolutely under threat, it was talked about in most forms of media, so to say it wasn't............ well beggars belief. I am sure if you read some online mediareports around the time, and some forum sites particularly on the old 606 site, many welsh fans were clamouring for Gatland to drop Spikey, and replace with Richie Rees, or Knoyle or Martyn Roberts or even Peel

There was nobody good enough at the time capable of taking the jersey. Rees was okay for a little while...

Phillips always has his haters, he still has them now despite that he is the best in his position in the NH. The ones calling for Phillips head are usually the Knoyle brigade and they are 99% Scarlet. It's beggars belief how anyone rates such a poor player as Tavis at this moment in time.

Well the irony of your statement is that welsh speaking Phillips comes from Cefnethin (like Wayne Evans) the heart of Carmarthenshine, played a long time for the Scarlets and is remembered with affection, whilst Knoyle originates from Neath or is it Glynneath the heart of Ospreylia, played for Neath and briefly the Os before moving to the West Wales region.

I cannae recall any Scarlet not thinking that Phillips was an excellent player, but many said (along with many other regional fans) that for the two seasons after the Lions he was very poor, and in their opinion in 2010/11 Knoyle outplayed Phillips, Rees, Evans etc plus their own Roberts.

Considering many on this board consider Tarvis to have the potential, well..... we must all be wrong and you must be right

As I said time will tell

flyhalffactory wrote:Well the irony of your statement is that welsh speaking Phillips comes from Cefnethin (like Wayne Evans) the heart of Carmarthenshine, played a long time for the Scarlets and is remembered with affection, whilst Knoyle originates from Neath or is it Glynneath the heart of Ospreylia, played for Neath and briefly the Os before moving to the West Wales region.

I cannae recall any Scarlet not thinking that Phillips was an excellent player, but many said (along with many other regional fans) that for the two seasons after the Lions he was very poor, and in their opinion in 2010/11 Knoyle outplayed Phillips, Rees, Evans etc plus their own Roberts.

Considering many on this board consider Tarvis to have the potential, well..... we must all be wrong and you must be right

As I said time will tell

Yes I remember, Martin was a good player but being considered behind Knoyle for no apparent reason. I still find it very odd. It was the main reason behind his move to Northampton.

As for the rest of your comments, . Just accept the fact that people have different opinions and whether the Knoyle brigade agree or not does not make me right or wrong .

Ironically Tavis, Martin Roberts and Ruby are all from Glynneath - Bet you wish you were there

I certainly remember the majority of WEelsh rugby fans calling for Phillips to be dropped when his form was poor. I think were suggesting Knoyle or Ress be picked, I certainly remember shouting at the TV for Phillip's constant crabbing and slow ball.

It might not be common knowledge but Phillips was going through a lot of personal problems at the time his form took a significant dip, along with his behaviour. He now looks as if he's starting to get some consistency back to his game but he is one of those players who will always frustrate a little. He does however scare the shxt out of opposing 9's and rattles the back row of opponents, often occupying them so that others can exploit the space. We are blesed with 9's with each offering something different. I like Tavis and what he brings but for me the one with the most potential and the most complete 9 is Webb. He lacks some composure being young but its going to be great watching all these vying for the 9 spot

I was just responding to Morgannwg to be honest.

Phillips is on great form at the moment but to claim he wasn't previously is ludicrous.

The only problems I see with him at the moment are his delivery speed from the ruck and his one man runs at the centre of oppositions defence. The one man blitz HAS worked when on their 5 M line but not from our 22 or halfway line

Phillips has had a lot of detractors over his pass and I am one of them. However one of the problems with his static delayed pass is that its used to bring JR in.

Howley gets phillips to throw a miss one to the inside centre but Mikeys passing is not slick enough to execute the move seamlessly and he has to look for Roberts' angle. Personally its not a tactic that works if the 9 cant get the ball away quickly and flat on the gainline but Rob uses it a lot. Its an old Wasps move but Howleys pass was far faster than Phillips.

Beck made the squad as one of the only fit and in form centres, Davies did not...

maestegmafia wrote:Beck made the squad as one of the only fit and in form centres, Davies did not...

4 uncapped players made the squad, however there were no players who have not been in a welsh train squad selected. It has the feeling of the 'we want a core of players we know' about it again, back around the days of Gatlands untouchables post '08 GS.