Gareth Davies (Scarlets Scrum Half) and Ashley Beck (Ospreys Centre)

Gareth Davies (Scarlets Scrum Half) and Ashley Beck (Ospreys Centre)

Good players. Repeat... Good players. Right.

These two have to start v the Barbarians and as many Wales games as possible this year. Both of these players have had great seasons and should be rewarded.

Howley will pick Webb and Lloyd Williams ahead of Davies however. Ashley Beck might play but he'll be 4th or possibly 5th in the pecking order when the slowcoach Jamie Roberts returns and James Hook renews his tan and flutters his eyelashes.

"Slowcoach Jamie Roberts"? Hmmmm. I saw Beck versus the Dragons. He made one decent break but looked pretty slow himself and was chopped down on his way to the line. Had a man outside him too, but seemed disinclined to pass. Frankly Bishop was much better.

As for Hook, he has been a big success at 10 for Perpignan and is well respected by the fans , as you can see from the comments on their forum.

http://forum3.usap.fr/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=26893

To be honest, the blues game aside I haven't been that impressed with Gareth Davies. I know he's young so he'll develop and maybe he does need game time but I don't see him as being any better than the other choices at 9 at the moment. I do rate beck though and have been saying for a long time that he should be in the squad

Beck Looks good and Davies has done well but will be behind Knoyle by next season. Of the two Knoyle is a much better player. Davies has done a great job this season though and it will be interesting to see if he has the temperament to fight for his shirt with Knoyle, or whether he will just look for a contract else where if things dont go his way?

Hewitt seemed to be on good form before injury. What have the chuckle brothers done with him ?

Davies is a very good player but will have a fight to keep the Scarlets 9 shirt let alone be automatically selected ahead of Phillips for Wales - I do expect him to be fighting for a squad place if he keeps developing.

Beck looks very good, much better than Bishop but to say he's much faster than Roberts is laughable - he also, just like Davies, needs to prove himself for Wales before being considered one of the top international centres for Wales. I'd say he's currently 3rd choice centre - particularly if Hook is doing so well at FH (though knowing Gats if Hook is doing well in 1 position then he could well be played at flanker or FB!)

Beck deserves his chance and looks a class player, it remains to be seen whether he can step up but I remain optimistic about this lad. Davies looks a good prospect but would benefit from another season. The 9's in my order of preference are as follows when all are fit.

Iron Mike
Rhys Webb/Tavis
Lloyd Williams (overated IMO), Davies

RubyGuby wrote:Beck deserves his chance and looks a class player, it remains to be seen whether he can step up but I remain optimistic about this lad. Davies looks a good prospect but would benefit from another season. The 9's in my order of preference are as follows when all are fit.

Iron Mike
Rhys Webb/Tavis
Lloyd Williams (overated IMO), Davies

Agree with this - I am excited to see what Beck can do, fingers crossed he can step up and then we'll have real options in the centre depending on gameplan

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Beck deserves his chance and looks a class player, it remains to be seen whether he can step up but I remain optimistic about this lad. Davies looks a good prospect but would benefit from another season. The 9's in my order of preference are as follows when all are fit.

Iron Mike
Rhys Webb/Tavis
Lloyd Williams (overated IMO), Davies

Agree with this - I am excited to see what Beck can do, fingers crossed he can step up and then we'll have real options in the centre depending on gameplan

We are developing some nice options there, Scott Williams and Adam Warren will also likely be part of the equation, as should Adam Hughes. Next Season we should see more at regional level of the Owen Williams and Jack Dixon too.

Jack
http://www.newportgwentdragons.com/personnel.aspx?pr=216335

Owen
http://www.scarlets.co.uk/eng/rugby/people.php?player=88081&includeref=dynamic

munkian wrote:Hewitt seemed to be on good form before injury. What have the chuckle brothers done with him ?

Hewitt played very well last week vs Scarlets

He is a good player but realistically is behind Beck, Hughes and propably Warren in terms of uncapped callups.

He did train with the squad a couple of seasons ago along with Sc.Williams though.

As this thread has looked at other young players I have a question: Why is Lewis Robling ahead of Steffan Jones in the pecking order at the Dragons?

wales606 wrote:

munkian wrote:Hewitt seemed to be on good form before injury. What have the chuckle brothers done with him ?

Hewitt played very well last week vs Scarlets

He is a good player but realistically is behind Beck, Hughes and propably Warren in terms of uncapped callups.

He did train with the squad a couple of seasons ago along with Sc.Williams though.

I see Hewitt as a good regional player but limited beyond that. Similar to Bishop. If there were a spate of injuries neither would let Wales down, but they will be unlikely to reach a level where they are un-ignorable for International call ups.

BeachBoy2012 wrote:As this thread has looked at other young players I have a question: Why is Lewis Robling ahead of Steffan Jones in the pecking order at the Dragons?

Steffan Jones is mostly a fullback - which we have had cover for. He's currently injured but I reckon he'll be used as a 10 with Robling next season as we've probably signed a full back from the Turks

Or you never know you could find D Evans at 10, with Robling at 12 and S Jones still at FB!

Could work

If any player has played themselves into the international team from the Scarlets it is Rhodri Jones or Liam Williams IMO. Gareth has played well and deserves to be involved in the Baabaas squad. I dount Beck will be in there though as he will most likely be match day squad for the first test, so most likely be in Aus when we play the Baabaas

Liam Williams looks a fine prospect. Looks very much like a young JPR Williams, you would think it was forty years ago until the camera pans in close and you see the distinct lack of Sideburns.

maestegmafia wrote:Liam Williams looks a fine prospect. Looks very much like a young JPR Williams, you would think it was forty years ago until the camera pans in close and you see the distinct lack of Sideburns.

OMG I'd love to see Liam with a proper set of mutton chops! He'd be legendary!

Why does Jamie Roberts sometimes get a bit of a hard time from Welsh supporters? As an England supporter he is one of they players I most fear when England play Wales. I've never really seen him have a bad game for Wales and a lot of their best play is channelled through him.

Davies at this stage doesn't look better than what we already have. We do need to give Beck a couple of games. He looks a good player but as others have touched on, I am not sure he has the pace to make it at International level, his acceleration os not electric and his top end is not devastating either. Only one way to find out so give him a go.

If pushed I think he will end up being another Mark Ring. skills, no = limited impact

When is Dirksen eligable ?

LordDowlais wrote:When is Dirksen eligable ?

This summer however for the first 2 years he was in the UK on a student Visa so this may make him eligible, I think it's up in the air at the moment.

Gareth Davies played very well against the Blues and I am looking forward to seeing him and Tavis fighting it out for the 9 shirt at the Scarlets next season. Not ready for Wales yet, but better than young Brynmor!

Beck looks a very stylish centre, good eye for a gap and good hands, but international rugby is all about power and pace and I have some concerns on that front particularly the latter. From what I have seen of him in the Rabo he oftens finds the gap but then gets swallowed up. I would say he does not have the pace of JD2, Roberts and Williams, that may be an issue for him at the top level.

maestegmafia wrote:Beck Looks good and Davies has done well but will be behind Knoyle by next season. Of the two Knoyle is a much better player.

What on earth are those statements based upon? It really can't be a comparison of each players playing abilities or form for you to come out with that.

My personal opinion on the two:

Knoyle - Headless chicken with many huge flaws.

Davies - Looks to have a good all round game and with a good run in the Scarlets team next season, I would bet he will improve even more.

BeachBoy... To be honest, that is an accurate assessment of Knoyle. I have no idea why people rate him so highly.

Davies looks hugely promising, as do a number of Scarlets. GD is defintely one of the stand-outs for me though and could slot into the Wales team without that affecting performance. Lloyd is playing very average. Was he just made to look extremely good against poor opposition in the world cup?

Morgannwg wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Beck Looks good and Davies has done well but will be behind Knoyle by next season. Of the two Knoyle is a much better player.

What on earth are those statements based upon? It really can't be a comparison of each players playing abilities or form for you to come out with that.

Years of watching rugby and having played Scrum Half for most of it. Knoyle plays with his head up. He reads the game better. Occasionally gets too stuck in with the forwards, but that is just exuberance. But he is the stand out nine for me. Great to see him fit again.

Well it seens the only correct ovservation you have made is that he gets too stuck in with the forwards, and that usually leads to turnovers. I also hope he doesn't hold onto the ball for too long whenever he plays as I know for a fact he'll end up handing it over to the oppo.

Bore Da Morgannwg

I remember you and I often disagree on the potential or overated-ness of young Knoyle. I am a big fan, you think he is useless.

We will have to have a wager, lets give it 12 months and if he is dawdling around the lower leagues or auditioning for celebrity get me out of here, I will post a thread on being wrong about him.

Likewise if he is the Welsh first or second choice scrumhalf and Scarlets first choice, you will do the same?

What you say mate?

I am sure you will think you have a safe bet there?

Best Wishes, hope alls well. Keep studying hard, your time in education flies by quicker than you think.

Morgannwg - most Scarlets fans seem to like both Knoyle and Davies and many have said they believe Knoyle will be 1st choice or that Davies will have a battle to get the jersey off him.

Lets not forget how young these lads are - that was Tavis's first season in senior rugby and with the right coaching he can only get better. Both players have the basic raw materials to be excellent scrum halves and we are lucky to have both. Lloyd Williams for me remains the over-rated one and Rhys Webb an absolute Gem.

I think when both are at their best, Knoyle is the better SH.

Davies is good but he can be very hit and miss and doesn't always choose the best options (but then Knoyle doesnt either). It isn't surprising that Davies has been playing his best rugby at the start and end of the season when he had other SH's challenging him for the shirt.

It should be a great battle between the two of them for the Scarlets shirt next season, a bit like the days of Peel and Phillips I guess. Both have weaknesses though, so it'll be interesting to see how they develop. I do like the both of them though

Dreamer - has Liam Davies definately left the Scarlets? It's a shame if so as I quite liked him and thought he had a good impact

I think we only signed him for short term cover? He's a good squad guy to have though, he's impressed me since returning to us.

We've got Rhodri Williams on the books though and Aled Davies (? I think that's his name, he's been out injured all season but is said to potentially be better than any of the others) so not sure we'll be keeping Liam.

Rhodri Williams is a good player, and very young too...

I'm not betting on anything, I just don't see how anyone (and you are not the only one maes) can say Knoyle is better than Davies when the former has always had many flaws and the latter has had a faultless season. Gareth has been more consistent than Williams and Webb, he should be back-up to Phillips on current form.

Morgannwg wrote:I'm not betting on anything, I just don't see how anyone (and you are not the only one maes) can say Knoyle is better than Davies when the former has always had many flaws and the latter has had a faultless season. Gareth has been more consistent than Williams and Webb, he should be back-up to Phillips on current form.

I'm not sure how you can say only one has flaws and the other one has had a faultless season when all the Scarlets fans on here are saying that they both have flaws but both show promise.

G Davies has had a very good breakthrough season but it certainly hasn't been flawless and we've definately missed Knoyle on occassion - as many Scarlets supporters say, it will be good to have both battling against each other for the No9 shirt next season.

I haven't seen any flaws from Davies to be honest, and he has been playing at Heineken Cup level. Look at his game in Brive, that is exactly what you want from your scrum half.

Why do you think you missed Knoyle, was Priestland mistakenly kicking it out on the full not enough for you?

I think that Davies seems to play better when Knoyle is fit and available for selection. Where that is because he needs to raise his game in order to fight for the shirt/keep the shirt or not I do not know. But during the period when Knoyle was out due to his op, Gareth did seem to go through a poor patch (kicking straight to touch, loose passes, etc). Also he had that moment of line blindness against Northampton at PYS when he could have passed out and we may have won the game. But when he is on form he does seem to have a nice ballence to his game, and seem to know when a snipe is on for himself, and who is where on the pitch.

Knoyle does have a tendancy to be a bit slower with his service, and does throw some bad passes when he tries to speed things up (either head or shin height). That said when he is on form and playing to his strengths he does add an extra bit of aggression to the back line, and is a very strong physical option at scrum half.

I think we are in a good position at the Scarlets with regards to the scrum halves we have, as they are all differing styles. Knoyle is a bit more of a physical, direct scrum half. Davies is a bit more of an all rounder, and Rhodri Williams seems to be a bit more flighty (but needs to work on when things are on or not).

See the Blues' first try from last weekend (it could have been the 2nd so apologies if it's my mistake). It came about directly from a mistake by Gareth Davies. Fair dos to him, he made up for it with two tries of his own, but he has in no way had a faultless season. He's got masses he could improve on. Still a step behind an on form Knoyle for me, but bags of potential.

I've never seen Knoyle have a good game, before you mention that MOTM against Argentina which seemed like a novelty choice. So if he has been on form at any point then he hasn't been good. He's plays consistently badly and repeats the same errors. When he came on against Munster earlier in the season was a perfect example. Davies does none of that and has some consistentcy with his good form. I am still amazed as to how anyone thinks Tav is the better player.

Knoyle looked like a real prospect around 18 months ago, Scrum V singing his praises, the lot.

He seems to have dropped off the radar lately but I've liked his pace and grit.

He's been injured most of the season Munkian, and suffered from being called up to the Wales squad last 6N's and RWC, but not getting much, if any game time there. Am sure with regular games, he'll be back to the form of last season

rugbydreamer wrote:He's been injured most of the season Munkian, and suffered from being called up to the Wales squad last 6N's and RWC, but not getting much, if any game time there. Am sure with regular games, he'll be back to the form of last season

I thought he'd had a knock. Hope he returns to form, decent young player

Morgannwg wrote:I've never seen Knoyle have a good game, before you mention that MOTM against Argentina which seemed like a novelty choice. So if he has been on form at any point then he hasn't been good. He's plays consistently badly and repeats the same errors. When he came on against Munster earlier in the season was a perfect example. Davies does none of that and has some consistentcy with his good form. I am still amazed as to how anyone thinks Tav is the better player.

I'd say if you've seen G Davies have a flawless season and never seen Knoyle have a good game, for Wales or the Scarlets, then you either haven't been watching that much of either or you're seeing what you want to see.

There are many Scarlets fans on here who have seen probably most of both's games (this season GD last season TK) and all think Knoyle is a good SH and we're lucky to have him.

He is very aggresive, and when on form offers good service, he's sharp and darting and keeps defences on their toes, and can have a good defence. He does make some poor decisions at times and can have poor service, but he can also be very, very good and personally I can't wait for him to be fully rested and fit for the start of next season.

G Davies looks very good and has had a good breakthrough season, however he can be inconsistent, sometimes his defence is suspect, he has good, quick service and a nice turn of pace though sometimes he can be slow to get the ball out of a retreating scrum - however he offers sharp darting runs from the base and I see him continuing to improve and iron out the chinks.

Good place to be

Everyone was singing his praises while he was in the Neath set-up. Then he burst onto the scene and was okay, then oddly began getting caps (at the time JT and Andy Powell kept getting them) and his game went from average to bad. Nothing has changed since yet we see excuses like he 'suffered from being called up to the Wales squad' even though that type of training seems to improve every single other Welsh player. This excuse gets thrown around quite often, but I can only think of one single players career that a rugby management has messed up and that career belongs to Gareth Owen.

Morg - in Knoyle's case suffering from Welsh call ups is along the same lines as Matthew Rees, Daf Jones, Morgan Stoddart and Mark Jones. It is picking up knocks, niggles and getting injured whilst trainning with the national team.

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

I'd say if you've seen G Davies have a flawless season and never seen Knoyle have a good game, for Wales or the Scarlets, then you either haven't been watching that much of either or you're seeing what you want to see.

There are many Scarlets fans on here who have seen probably most of both's games (this season GD last season TK) and all think Knoyle is a good SH and we're lucky to have him.

G Davies looks very good and has had a good breakthrough season, however he can be inconsistent, sometimes his defence is suspect, he has good, quick service and a nice turn of pace though sometimes he can be slow to get the ball out of a retreating scrum - however he offers sharp darting runs from the base and I see him continuing to improve and iron out the chinks.

Good place to be

Well it is as simple as this really. Knoyle consistently makes errors like kicking it out on the full, knocking on around the fringes, looking for contact with big forwards instead of avoiding it whilst having poor service and running around like a headless chicken. Gareth plays consistently well, yes he can make an error but who doesn't? Just nowhere near the level of Tav. Perhaps most importantly, GD's service is excellent.

And yeah Scarlet fans would say that. They say it about every one of their players. You all think Andy Fenby is on the brink of being world class right?

Correct about the retreating scrum, just goes to show how well Davies has been playing. He can only get better, as will Tavis hopefully. The Scarlets are most DEFINITELY the team who can get the best out of each player.

munkian wrote:

rugbydreamer wrote:He's been injured most of the season Munkian, and suffered from being called up to the Wales squad last 6N's and RWC, but not getting much, if any game time there. Am sure with regular games, he'll be back to the form of last season

I thought he'd had a knock. Hope he returns to form, decent young player

Yeah, he was away with Wales for the RWC, got a few games on his return but was badly off form having not had any proper game time since about April, then got injured just before Christmas and had to have a shoulder op in January. It's great to see him back, he seems to have slotted right back in well too. Hopefully after a good pre-season he'll be back to his best.

Morgannwg wrote:

Smirnoffpriest wrote:

I'd say if you've seen G Davies have a flawless season and never seen Knoyle have a good game, for Wales or the Scarlets, then you either haven't been watching that much of either or you're seeing what you want to see.

There are many Scarlets fans on here who have seen probably most of both's games (this season GD last season TK) and all think Knoyle is a good SH and we're lucky to have him.

G Davies looks very good and has had a good breakthrough season, however he can be inconsistent, sometimes his defence is suspect, he has good, quick service and a nice turn of pace though sometimes he can be slow to get the ball out of a retreating scrum - however he offers sharp darting runs from the base and I see him continuing to improve and iron out the chinks.

Good place to be

Well it is as simple as this really. Knoyle consistently makes errors like kicking it out on the full, knocking on around the fringes, looking for contact with big forwards instead of avoiding it whilst having poor service and running around like a headless chicken. Gareth plays consistently well, yes he can make an error but who doesn't? Just nowhere near the level of Tav. Perhaps most importantly, GD's service is excellent.

And yeah Scarlet fans would say that. They say it about every one of their players. You all think Andy Fenby is on the brink of being world class right?

Correct about the retreating scrum, just goes to show how well Davies has been playing. He can only get better, as will Tavis hopefully. The Scarlets are most DEFINITELY the team who can get the best out of each player.

You mean In Your Opinion TK runs around like a headless chicken, and G Davies has had a flawless season.

And If Scarlets fans think all our players are amazing, why are we saying that G Davies needs to develop more, or that Tavis needs to improve? That surely seems to disprove that theory.

I've never seen any Scarlets say Fenby is anything other than Rabo class, and personally most of the time I don't think he's that - it's only when he's on form that he brings positives to the team and he still makes mistakes.

And the comment about suffering from being called up to the Wales squad is for the same reason G North, D James, D Jones & M Jones all suffered from being called up - ie they were carrying knocks and niggles but got put through intense training session, played an international and got injured without the recuperation time needed to recover to fully fitness.