RWC 2011 Will Be Remembered As A Non Event

by HERSH Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:33 pm

First topic message reminder :

Now that the dust has settled on yet another RWC who else thinks its time for the format to change?

For me it needs to change by the next RWC as some teams are getting a raw deal with schedules and some teams like England have an easy pool which ultimately cost them as they lost focus when they came up against a real quality team, Wales on the other hand had to raise their game just to make it through the pool stage which does help focus the mind as they have experienced failure at the pool stage many times before, Ireland was another case where by they really only had one meaningful game before they faced a battle hardened Welsh team in the QF.

The current format is so unbalanced and unfair that whoever wins the 2011 RWC won’t compare to what has gone before and shouldn’t be mentioned in the same breath.

RWC 2011 will be remembered as a non event for all rugby fans.

by RubyGuby Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:01 am

Johnson is in danger of becoming rugbys equivelant of Gordon Strachan - What does he actually know and what point is he exactly trying to get over. There is no self-critical analysis - all we get is we'll have to front up more and learn from this - How? and what the feck does that mean in real terms! Tactically the guy is out of his depth when the bish bash bosh is not working. thumbsup

by gavstar Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:15 am

I put this on another thread, but think it will be relevant here. Jeff Probyn yesterday on Talksport radio, said Martyn Johnson couldn't tell his senior players off because he was one of them at one time and he used to go out drinking ! English psyche again, touch of the untouchables. cuppa

by TheGreyGhost Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:17 am

Certainly answered the question about whether 2003 was down to SCW, or whether the players themselves were the leaders, coaches and orchestrators of their success.

Clearly left to their own devices Johnson as manager, Wilkinson as a player and Dayglo as a pundit had no idea what they were looking at. Both horrifically wrong from start to finish.

by Bitter Beer Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:33 am

gavstar wrote: English psyche again, touch of the untouchables.

Since it seems that nationalistic sterotyping is all of a sudden acceptable on 606V2, I'd just like to ask why you're on here and not in Weatherspoons spending your unemployment benefit?

by Adam D Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:35 am

Bitter Beer wrote:
gavstar wrote: English psyche again, touch of the untouchables.

Since it seems that nationalistic sterotyping is all of a sudden acceptable on 606V2, I'd just like to ask why you're on here and not in Weatherspoons spending your unemployment benefit?

Please refrain from personal insults - attack the post not the poster.

by kiakahaaotearoa Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:54 pm

RWC 2011 will be remembered as an England non event on the field and a high japes event off the field.

At least your players enjoyed themselves. Tualigi didn´t want to leave. Made a last ditched attempt to miss the flight and have a few more laughs.

by Morgannwg Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:15 pm

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:RWC 2011 will be remembered as an England non event on the field and a high japes event off the field.

At least your players enjoyed themselves. Tualigi didn´t want to leave. Made a last ditched attempt to miss the flight and have a few more laughs.

Definitely the correct answer to this article.

by Bitter Beer Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:19 pm

Nobody appears to be slating Ireland, SA or Argentina, who despite seemingly living like monks were still eliminated at the same stage of the competition.

If England's world cup journey has consumed you to the point where it is what you will remember the entire tournament by, then you are neither a true fan of rugby, or particularly posessing of credibility.

England are considered to have underperformed, but then by that rationale, so have the other teams mentioned. It is clear that there are issues with English rugby and that they need to be addressed. I hope they will be. But you can be sure that in the meantime, I wont be taking every opportunity to spout xenophobic rubbish about other teams' failings (lest we forget, NZ havent won it yet) to give myself some kind of ego boost.

by BATH_BTGOG Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:25 pm

Ireland, SA and Argentina all looked to be playing better rugby too so maybe England over achieved and deserve some credit.

by funnyExiledScot Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:28 pm

I like the format. It's tried and tested. There have been some wonderful games and surprising results, just what you need in a WC.

Yes, the fixtures should be more random in the sense that it shouldn't necessarily be the smaller nations getting the short turn-arounds. It should just be luck of the draw.

Otherwise I think it's been a great tournament.

by Bitter Beer Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:32 pm

Totally agreee Scot.

by Comfort Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:32 pm

Bitter, I think its because as you say "they lived like monks" whereas the English players gave the public and media a rod for their own back.

That, and we all know how the media dont do middle-ground or sensible, they do extremes, england are either world-beaters or need a root and branch reform from top to bottom.

Most english fans will be let down by the players actions, but more so by the perfomances. whether they're related, its impossible to tell, i dont think they will have helped the players or Johnson's position, which is a shame, as he can get england playing some very attractive, winning rugby as seen in the 6ns and wins againt oz. Whether he'll get the chance too in the future or not remains to be seen.

As Miaow/Cymro/Mckay (cant quite remember whose thread it was sorry guys) said, "dont beileve the hype".

As for the original post, this world cup will be remembered in the same vein as every other world cup, dont get your logic. peace and love!

by Bitter Beer Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:50 pm

Wasn't my logic, it was the logic of Kia, who told us all that that is how the WC would be remembered.

by Comfort Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:56 pm

sorry bitter, the last part wasnt directed at you Ok!

by radelven Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:16 pm

gavstar wrote:I don't think this thread is a wind up. Hersh represents a part of the English psyche the celts will never understand. Why cant they just accept they weren't good enough? You need to do something to improve.Thats how you improve in all areas of life.

You either sympathise with the guy, or laugh ,which I'm still doing, as it means the more England think like this the better for the rest of us!

This HERSH isn't the one from old 606, he's got a very different style, and if you look over his posting history you'll notice comments and traits that tell you the imposter's real nationality.

by kiakahaaotearoa Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:41 pm

Bitter don´t worry. The poster didn´t mean this post. Just trying to get a rise out of people. Your comments make perfect sense but have no place on this ludicrous thread.

by Gatts Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:53 pm

Bitter Beer wrote:
TheGreyGhost wrote:Wales have shown they have the temperament to tough it out in the pressure cooker environment of knock out rugby on the biggest stage of all.

There are a lot of fans of some of the less composed, less focussed teams like England, for whom the task was too daunting and they lost control of their emotions and resorted to drinking, hence their rugby suffered as a result of their lack of mental fortitude.

History has shown that Wales do well in the high pressure goldfish bowl in the spiritual home of rugby, two trips to NZ world cups and two semi-finals so far. Contrast that with England have not managed a semi final in the spiritual home of rugby at all.

Perhaps an element of the cohesion of the Welsh side is that they are all actually Welsh, in contrast to some other teams, like England comprising a majority of mercenaries from many nations who seemed to splinter mentally when the pressure came on out on the biggest rugby stage of all.

Well done Wales, and good luck for your semi final. If Wales get past France they will have proven surely that one their day they can beat anyone, and that they are the premier northern hemisphere team.

Was your mother a weightlifter?

It's mother was a test tube

by Runster Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:13 pm

Bitter Beer wrote:
Runster wrote:
Bitter Beer wrote:I suppose you could argue that Wales reaching the Semi- finals is an anomaly and certainly, this WC has had its share of upsets. Ireland beating Oz springs to mind. The fact that one of Oz or NZ will go out in the semis (I happen to think it will be NZ) leaves the door wide open for a potential NH winner. So to say its been devalued is nonsense, although in terms of structure it could have been better.

Bitter Beer - maybe the IRB should remove the anomaly of Wales getting to the semi, and put England through in their place, because let's face it, England Richly deserve to be semi- finalists.

Check WC history. Wales reaching the Semi finals is an anomaly.

Bitter beer Wales came 3rd in the first WC. . So this is the second time. What does anomaly mean - check your dictionary. Statements like 'Wales reaching a semi final is an anomaly' is what makes everyone dislike the English rugby world - never mind the sludge your team plays.

by trebellbobaggins Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:21 pm

The only thing that ruined it is the times of the matches. I just haven't really seen any of it so it's passed me by pretty much and doesn't seem to have generated much interest outside of the rugby hardcore around here so nobody has spoken about it, i haven't heard one person mention it at work sadly..

I'll be up to watch the Wales match though for sure.

by Guest Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:26 pm

I just find the English management are looking more desperate than a beer swilling man in his 40's on an Internet dating site.

They are beyond help and have lost control.

by Guest Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:46 pm

Regardless of who wins this RWC, it will be remembered for the game becoming a clone of rugby league with endless rucks and three of the four sides having their captain at openside and are thus immune from yellow cards for their flanker position and the fourth side basing their game around the same position (Pocock).
The scrum has been a lottery with poor scrums riding the percentages from refs and far too many players being grabbed around the neck at the ruck to pull them off the ball by players coming round the sides to get at them.

The game is a mess but pretty sure the winners won't see it that way

by TheGreyGhost Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:15 pm

There aren't any rucks in rugby league. Stopped reading your tripe after that.

by gavstar Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:00 pm

Never been unemployed or been to Weatherspoons, Bitter Beer, not that i needed to answer.

lots of comments from confused england supporters who are unable to understand the overwhelming interest in the demise of the England rugby team.

It's very complicated , peoples relationship with other nationalities, but I would suggest that these threads have a lot more to do with it being 'England' than just the rugby team.

Many times when I'm abroad, which is a considerable amount of time, people are quick to say something along the lines of 'But you're not English,you're ok'

I have English relations, friends etc. so this is not a personal opinion, but it is unfortunately the perception of a number of nationalities as to what the English are like .

All nationalities have their own particular 'image' it just seems that the image of the English is one that doesn't gather too many supporters around the globe, not my fault Bitter Beer.

by mystiroakey Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:10 pm

gavstar wrote:Never been unemployed or been to Weatherspoons, Bitter Beer, not that i needed to answer.

lots of comments from confused england supporters who are unable to understand the overwhelming interest in the demise of the England rugby team.

It's very complicated , peoples relationship with other nationalities, but I would suggest that these threads have a lot more to do with it being 'England' than just the rugby team.

Many times when I'm abroad, which is a considerable amount of time, people are quick to say something along the lines of 'But you're not English,you're ok'

I have English relations, friends etc. so this is not a personal opinion, but it is unfortunately the perception of a number of nationalities as to what the English are like .

All nationalities have their own particular 'image' it just seems that the image of the English is one that doesn't gather too many supporters around the globe, not my fault Bitter Beer.

well if you dont agree with the perception - why add to the fire?

by Gatts Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:14 pm

gavstar wrote:Never been unemployed or been to Weatherspoons, Bitter Beer, not that i needed to answer.

lots of comments from confused england supporters who are unable to understand the overwhelming interest in the demise of the England rugby team.

It's very complicated , peoples relationship with other nationalities, but I would suggest that these threads have a lot more to do with it being 'England' than just the rugby team.

Many times when I'm abroad, which is a considerable amount of time, people are quick to say something along the lines of 'But you're not English,you're ok'

I have English relations, friends etc. so this is not a personal opinion, but it is unfortunately the perception of a number of nationalities as to what the English are like .

All nationalities have their own particular 'image' it just seems that the image of the English is one that doesn't gather too many supporters around the globe, not my fault Bitter Beer.

Personally i think that is going a step too far into territory we don't need to debate. Where will it end?

Lets keep it on the rugby...England do plenty in that realm to undermine their image abroad

by gavstar Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:20 pm

Not adding to the fire , just answering the question which many posters have raised as to why theres such an overwhelming interest in the England teams fortunes and not in the fortunes of the other teams that departed the rwc at the same time.
There was an ABE thread started awhile ago, and even the English supporters feel this is the way people feel about them, not only the home nations.

by wonder_man Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:24 pm

Bitter Beer wrote:
Runster wrote:
Bitter Beer wrote:I suppose you could argue that Wales reaching the Semi- finals is an anomaly and certainly, this WC has had its share of upsets. Ireland beating Oz springs to mind. The fact that one of Oz or NZ will go out in the semis (I happen to think it will be NZ) leaves the door wide open for a potential NH winner. So to say its been devalued is nonsense, although in terms of structure it could have been better.

Bitter Beer - maybe the IRB should remove the anomaly of Wales getting to the semi, and put England through in their place, because let's face it, England Richly deserve to be semi- finalists.

Check WC history. Wales reaching the Semi finals is an anomaly.

What has history got to do with anything? pretty sure the tournaments being played this year?

by Guest Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:26 pm

Very constructive ghost..... Name the last captain to be yellow carded?

Endless union rucks have become like the league tackles but even league realizes that after six tackles it becomes tedious but union has decided to rely on the ref to decide to penalize or just allow a free for all.

The ELVs have come through the back door. Bring back proper props and ban lifting in the lineout and you will reduce the number of flankers lurking around in midfield and create space.

The RWC is supposed to be an advert for a distinctive game but various styles have been lost.

by mystiroakey Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:28 pm

gavstar wrote:Not adding to the fire , just answering the question which many posters have raised as to why theres such an overwhelming interest in the England teams fortunes and not in the fortunes of the other teams that departed the rwc at the same time.
There was an ABE thread started awhile ago, and even the English supporters feel this is the way people feel about them, not only the home nations.

We know how others feel. But that really is there ignorance and problem. If you dont agree that we should be steriotyped then dont add to the fire and dont talk about us all the time. Its simple

by TheGreyGhost Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:30 pm

The ELVs didn't come through the back door, they were the result of a directive from the chairman of the IRB and then researched and trialed throughly in a structured programme starting at club level, through super rugby and then in international rugby. All member unions then voted on them. Where's the backdoor?

Look, Richie getting a yellow card, despite doing nothing wrong...

http://www.superxv.com/video/super-rugby-video-highlights-2011-force-vs-crusaders-rd-11/richie-mccaw-gets-a-yellow-card-against-the-force-in-rd11-video_15fb21e63.html

by Glas a du Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:25 pm

Will it be "Remembered as a non event"

That is an interesting philosophical point. To be a non event but to be memorable. Can one thing be both? I'll always remember how forgettable that was?

I'm going to bed before my brain pops out of my ear.

by gavstar Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:23 am

of course, you are right mystiroakey, it really is that simple, nite rose

by Bitter Beer Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:35 am

Runster wrote:
Bitter Beer wrote:
Runster wrote:
Bitter Beer wrote:I suppose you could argue that Wales reaching the Semi- finals is an anomaly and certainly, this WC has had its share of upsets. Ireland beating Oz springs to mind. The fact that one of Oz or NZ will go out in the semis (I happen to think it will be NZ) leaves the door wide open for a potential NH winner. So to say its been devalued is nonsense, although in terms of structure it could have been better.

Bitter Beer - maybe the IRB should remove the anomaly of Wales getting to the semi, and put England through in their place, because let's face it, England Richly deserve to be semi- finalists.

Check WC history. Wales reaching the Semi finals is an anomaly.

Bitter beer Wales came 3rd in the first WC. . So this is the second time. What does anomaly mean - check your dictionary. Statements like 'Wales reaching a semi final is an anomaly' is what makes everyone dislike the English rugby world - never mind the sludge your team plays.

I looked it up and am happy to confirm that I was correct.

by Bitter Beer Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:36 am

viewtothegym wrote:I just find the English management are looking more desperate than a beer swilling man in his 40's on an Internet dating site.

They are beyond help and have lost control.

You seem to have an intimate knowledge of the sites you speak of. Can't be an accident.

by maestegmafia Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:04 am

Bitter Beer wrote:
Runster wrote:
Bitter Beer wrote:
Runster wrote:
Bitter Beer wrote:I suppose you could argue that Wales reaching the Semi- finals is an anomaly and certainly, this WC has had its share of upsets. Ireland beating Oz springs to mind. The fact that one of Oz or NZ will go out in the semis (I happen to think it will be NZ) leaves the door wide open for a potential NH winner. So to say its been devalued is nonsense, although in terms of structure it could have been better.

Bitter Beer - maybe the IRB should remove the anomaly of Wales getting to the semi, and put England through in their place, because let's face it, England Richly deserve to be semi- finalists.

Check WC history. Wales reaching the Semi finals is an anomaly.

Bitter beer Wales came 3rd in the first WC. . So this is the second time. What does anomaly mean - check your dictionary. Statements like 'Wales reaching a semi final is an anomaly' is what makes everyone dislike the English rugby world - never mind the sludge your team plays.

I looked it up and am happy to confirm that I was correct.

Every time Wales plays a world cup in New Zealand we make the semi finals.

Not a bad decade in welsh rugby really, two grand slams in the six nations, a sevens RWC and a semi or possibly final in the RWC.

Starting to feel forty years younger...

by HERSH Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:56 pm

blah blah blah

by TheGreyGhost Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:01 pm

Yes, interesting that England have never made it past a quarterfinal at a rugby world cup in NZ.

by HERSH Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:08 pm

A bit like NZ never making a final in the NH despite being the self proclaimed best team in the world!

I tried some of that NZ Steinlarger yesterday which claims to be great also, guess what it wasn't.

by TheGreyGhost Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:24 pm

Steinlarger? Never heard of it.

by RubyGuby Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:25 pm

I tried some of that NZ Steinlarger yesterday which claims to be great also, guess what it wasn't

Did you choke Yahoo

by HERSH Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:28 pm

Nearly, but I just ended up with a black streak of pi ss, the Doc said it was McCaw syndrome.

by Comfort Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:13 pm

HERSH, i feel like I need to ask, are you Will Greenwood or something?

by HERSH Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:19 pm

Not far off

by Comfort Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:24 pm

by RubyGuby Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:05 pm

You must be Green Willwood then thumbsup

by Guest Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:22 pm

Yep bitter beer one of them pathetic sites was used by a old 606 poster

by Bitter Beer Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:18 am

Sent straight from your favourites folder. laughing

by Glas a du Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:31 am

It looks likely to be now. It suffers the same dilemma as the 6N. For games to be competative the better sides have to play badly, as they have generally this time. That means though that the perceived quality of the tournament suffers. It is devalued if anybody but two if the top three get to the final, just as the 6N is devalued if England and France are not playing a GS decider.

by HERSH Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:18 pm

RWC 2011 Will Be Remembered As A Non Event?

Looks like I was wrong it will be remembered for three reasons

1-Warburton.
2-Plucky Welsh performance v France
3-Rolland seeing Red

by HERSH Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:40 am

Anyone else glad its all over, bring on the HC. Very Happy

I'm glad the final lived up to the rest of the RWC, dull and one to forget.

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