How willl Warburton's role be remembered.

Following the sending off, how will Sam (who has been outstanding for us as a player, leader and ambassador of welsh rugby) be looked upon by rugby fans after today? Will his sterling performances previous to the controversy allow him to remain a popular and respected player? Or will this be enough to spoil his work? In my opinion he still deserves to be in the RWC team of the tournament as he has been immense, and I still think he's been player of the tournament. How do you view him/his WC performance now?

The that it wasn't malicious, more of a drop and gravity doing the dirty work, means that it was more of an accident and he will still be remembered for the good things.

He will be remembered in this world cup as being controversially sent off, no matter who thinks it was a fair decision. It was controversial and many people believe it was the wrong decision (including me).

He will be remember as a great leader. Sam will remain Captain and this will make him better...beware!!

Cardiff Taffy wrote:He will be remember as a great leader. Sam will remain Captain and this will make him better...beware!!

Agree. I put this down to the over enthusiasm of youth.

Never mind remembered, he will be leading a young, dynamic welsh team as favourites in the 6N.. and he deserves too. Fantastic player who made a poor tackle.

red_stag wrote:

Cardiff Taffy wrote:He will be remember as a great leader. Sam will remain Captain and this will make him better...beware!!

Agree. I put this down to the over enthusiasm of youth.

Welsh public will get behind him. What will be more interesting is how they regard Hook & S. Jones who both bottled it? They could have won that game.

quality player, openside of the tournament and i thinm should be up for irb player of the year- shocking ref but hey what do you expect playing a ref who is half french?

red_stag wrote:

Cardiff Taffy wrote:He will be remember as a great leader. Sam will remain Captain and this will make him better...beware!!

Agree. I put this down to the over enthusiasm of youth.

Mo charra

I'll maintain to the grave that red was a freak decision and one of those curdling decisions that leave their mark on big games. Of all the disruptions of that nature that I have witnessed that was the first time I've seen the ref snap out a red.

A crying shame that a great, establishing campaign for a player like Warburton will be remembered as snuffed out from a mixture of injustice and bad luck.

welshy824 wrote:quality player, openside of the tournament and i thinm should be up for irb player of the year- shocking ref but hey what do you expect playing a ref who is half french?

For all you know, Roland's father may have abandoned the family and he hates anything to to with France.

Roland always gets games that involve French teams because he can speak French. Its amazing that he seems to have adopted this French bias thing just because France were playing Wales.

He actually sent off a Toulouse player against Wasps (Irishman/Frenchman favouring an English team FFS) in a Heineken Cup Final and Warren Gatland was Waps's coach.

welshy824 wrote:quality player, openside of the tournament and i thinm should be up for irb player of the year- shocking ref but hey what do you expect playing a ref who is half french?

Could be pipped by Pocock for that honour. For me his game last week puts him slightly ahead. definately one of the stars though and should be up for player of the year. Not sure if he would get it as i imagine the eventual winning team willl have a few candidates

Knowsit17 wrote:I'll maintain to the grave that red was a freak decision and one of those curdling decisions that leave their mark on big games. Of all the disruptions of that nature that I have witnessed that was the first time I've seen the ref snap out a red.

A crying shame that a great, establishing campaign for a player like Warburton will be remembered as snuffed out from a mixture of injustice and bad luck.

Probably why Rolland was reffing a semi-final, and not the rest of them.

I hope he accepts that he made a mistake and learns from it. People telling him it was OK won't help him. Accept it was wrong and don't do it again.

Great player and a great part of the future.

As said above, Wales are using their youth well and probably are 6n favourites now if others don't do the same.

I agree with Martyn Williams that the tackle was too good. Maybe Warburton was expecting a forward rather than a winger or maybe he just wanted to take some momentum away from France.

If he hadn't let him go wouldn't he have risked driving Clerc into the ground hard or else putting him in an even more awkward position to land, such as directly on top of his head?

Warburton's not a dirty player, this is the first time he's even been close to the disciplinary side of the game, it looks from his actions during the tackle that he tried to make amends for the initial mistake and has stated personally that he wasn't being malicious.

It just makes me question my faith in being able to win the game when a misjudgement in intensity can cost you a fair chance. That's taking into consideration the fact that the fouled player doesn't suffer a scratch for his troubles and is fit to play until the final whistle.

More mistakes like this are going to happen in similar fashion whatever you do, automatic reds are not the answer.

Lots of us predicted that it would be Rolland that would decide this game if he got the opportunity.

He always referees Wales badly and I can't stand him reffing us.

I really dispair to see so many who truly believe they have been cheated by somrone with an agenda. The more time I spend on this site the more I question whether respect iz still a part of rugby. This isnt just Welsh. My own Irish beliebe in droves that Poite wants us to lose.

red the problem is its hard to respect a ref when he gives a decision like that so quickly no one knew what was going on, there wasnt even a talking to just all we saw was warbs on the sideline and thinking wtf has happened?

Rolland was'nt on an agenda to see Wales go out and France get to the final. I would'nt believe that to be the case.

I do, however, feel that he was way too overzealous in producing the red card. By the letter f the law correct but more discretion should have been applied.

As for the original question. Warburton will be remembered from this world cup exactly how he has played. A class player with enormous potential.

But he cant use replays to make his call. He assessed the situation and did the hard but riggt thing. I understand frustration and losing your captain but as I have said on another thread to me this is very clear red card. The fact it ruined the game is not refs problem.

Discretion with regards to what. What reason should have stayed his hand?

Maybe we should just start hiring wild animals as referees. They have nothing to gain from whoever wins, therefore nobody can have any complaints with their decisions.

Cardiff Taffy wrote:He will be remember as a great leader. Sam will remain Captain and this will make him better...beware!!

That's how I'd like him to be remembered, but you know what will happen....his tournament will be overshadowed by a referee's decision for a while now, which is a shame. He's been a brilliant captain, and for someone so young I think he's handled it all very well. I hope he'll continue to lead the Welsh side

Incidentally I was tempted to put a crap joke in about Warburton's rolls...

Or whole game done by TMO. Refs can be fat. We dont need transport costs and they can have multiple angles

Cari I think Hook will be a bigger scapegoat.

Discretion in the fact that although it was dangerous, there was no malicous intent involved. He made a crunching hit, got Clerc in an awkward position and made the choice not to drive him into the ground.

I know your next comeback will be that Rolland didnt made his call without the benefit of the replay but he was in the perfect position to see this as well.

As i said, by the letter of the law, red card but i feel that he should have taken a few moments to consider his decision and maybe even talk it over with his assitent before making the decision.

Intent isnt relevant. Few if anyone intentionally spear tackle. Rollands hands were tied. It is Warburton who sealed his own fate with a reckless few seconds

Intent is relevant stag, i dont know how you can say it is not. It was an absolute crunching tackle and he was unfortunate to get Clerc in that position but he didnt go through with it. Yellow card for me and something for the disciplinery panel to look at later.

I can say it as I know how to ref a spear tackle. Refs are not to take it into account.

red_stag wrote:Cari I think Hook will be a bigger scapegoat.

Staggy, I don't mean because of the result, I mean Warburton's own tournament will be overshadowed in the media by his "controversial" sending off during the semi final. He'll be remembered by some as the captain who was sent off rather than his overall achievement.

As for Hook being a scapegoat, he shouldn't be - there were a lot of "If only..." moments in the match for Wales. Just one of those things, but you're right people look for one person to blame.

I think Warbs will be fine. As I said although I a million per cent agree with card I put it down to over enthusiasm

I respect that stag but i am intiteled to my opinion and i believe that discretion in regards to intent should be taken into account.

Its what seperates a good ref from a great ref in my eyes

He will be remembered as a young captain who set the standards for the rest of the team in terms of professionalism and commitment, this was a great welsh team who had a great tournament only to just come short towards the end.

Warburton will NOT be remembered as a culprit who was sent off, but rather an unfortunate recipient of a controversial red card.

Fair enough. I reckon a good ref should allow forward passes

It will be interesting to see how the disciplinary panel view it.

sam has been quite outstanding this world cup, and the card wont change much there. whilst i dont agree with the red, feeling that common sense should have prevailed and a yellow would have sufficed, the decision was made and we had to live with it. so heres to the 3rd/4th place play off, a win, and the start of a golden period for welsh rugby.

red_stag wrote:I really dispair to see so many who truly believe they have been cheated by somrone with an agenda. The more time I spend on this site the more I question whether respect iz still a part of rugby. This isnt just Welsh. My own Irish beliebe in droves that Poite wants us to lose.

I don't think he wants us to lose. I just think he is a poor excuse of a ref, particularly of the scrum. And a very poor communicator.

Positive thinking thats the way Jay

Sin é wrote:

red_stag wrote:I really dispair to see so many who truly believe they have been cheated by somrone with an agenda. The more time I spend on this site the more I question whether respect iz still a part of rugby. This isnt just Welsh. My own Irish beliebe in droves that Poite wants us to lose.

I don't think he wants us to lose. I just think he is a poor excuse of a ref, particularly of the scrum. And a very poor communicator.

I agree.with this i think hes shoite. Many of my mates.truly believe he is trying to cheat us.

red_stag wrote:Fair enough. I reckon a good ref should allow forward passes

And there i was thinking that we were having a serious discussion.. Shame really

I had hoped my exaggeration would hihhlight the problem with going yellow

No what you were doing stag, is trying to be all high and mighty then try to belittle my opinion by making a childish comment. Well done.

Anyway, i am not going to discuss this further as its dropped to school yard level.

He'll be remembered as one of, if not the player of the tournament, who made a mistake which may or may not have cost his team a place in the final.

However without Warburton Wales probably wouldn't be in the SF in the first place.

The red card, and it was without doubt a red card under the current laws, shouldn't take away from the fantastic contribution Warburton has made for Wales.

Stag is 100% spot on btw, but I suspect he doesn't need me to point that out.

Billy I apologise. Your right that wasnt cool. I was talking about how things are. You were talking about how they ought to be.

He should give David Beckham a ring.

The lad has time to make up for his mistake.

Ok, fair enoug stag and thanks.
I see your point and have a greed that it is a red card by the letter of the law, just frustrated that things like this have such a huge bearing on a match.

[quote="Looseheaded"]Following the sending off, how will Sam (who has been outstanding for us as a player, leader and ambassador of welsh rugby) [b]be looked upon by rugby fans after today[/b]? Will his sterling performances previous to the controversy allow him to remain a popular and respected player? Or will this be enough to spoil his work? In my opinion he still deserves to be in the RWC team of the tournament as he has been immense, and I still think he's been player of the tournament. [b]How do you view him/his WC performance now[/b]?[/quote]

I assume you mean the same thing with both questions I see him as a player who was involved in a key incident that cost us a place in the final. Some may see him as hard done by , others not so.

His WC performance had been one of gradual improvement culminating in the Ireland game. He's still a way from being a great player but I think he will with maturity become one. His PR role has been good too. Warburtons proved until now a sound player in the squad and for the present one of a few players around who can do a reasonable job as captain.

For me, and i am not a welsh fan by any means.

But for me Sam Warburton will be remeberd in this 2011 Rugby World Cup, as the best captain that Walea have had for a long time, but who had a spot of bad luck in the semi final of the Rugby World Cup.