You dont know what you have until its gone

I am at my wits end here. After repeated requests to stop the bickering and arguing its as if I dont even exist and you just ignore me. Because of this we are seeing regular members leaving the site.

So I thought I would share a few comments and posts from alternative tennis sites, because if you dont start behaving you will find yourself there where the discussions are based on the following:

Rafa Nadal GOAT? yeah right! He is the 10th best on the tour now let alone GOAT. all he does is moonball and run about.

Forgive my ignorance, On matters relating to tennis, but why does Andy hit the ball back to Nadal, while sneaky Rafa, hits it past "oor Andy"....bad sportsmanship or what?

Watching sharapova vs kvitova final and it's pretty boring as women,s tennis usually is, but some of the things other than the tennis itself are pretty exiting.

So................Anyone but Murray it is then...

Anyone that wanted nadal to win............Is a disgrace, why don't you support your fellow brit, disgusting

wow, so many fa,gs on this site. disliking murray cause of the way he looks.. its called tennis not mr. world

The reason I don't support Murray is because his mothers face annoys me intensely.

I am going to be a lot stricter in here. This is a good site to be a part of, but if you dont start behaving, you will find yourself out the door and left to discuss topics as per my examples.

YI

What has become irrefutably evident is that this forum has been overrun by rabid anti-Nadal posters. What's most galling isn't just their evident dislike of Nadal or their ever rising number but the incessant, relentless derision of the player ensuring you can rarely read a thread without a couple of attempts to belittle the lad.

And I am going to clamp down on unnecessary player bashing. Im sick of it and it is driving members away.

great news! It's the unnecessary bashing which really annoys people. It's fine to dislike someone, but to have to slip in a derogatory remark about them every other post or worse is just dumb. Half the articles on the first page are Nadal bashing (or have been turned into it) while about half of the remainder are Murray-bashing...

You have a difficult job. Some of the examples you've given despite my better judgment make me laugh. I particualy like the one about "sneaky Rafa"...

But you do have a point some of the comments here (admittedly by just a few posters... and mainly just one) in the last few days have left a bad taste. Cricism, having favourites, expressing strong opinions and even poking fun all make for good discussion. There is a line that shouldn't be crossed though and for me it was with the homophobic stuff and some of the comments that followed. Most if not all of the vile is directed at just one player who happens to be one of the all time greats...

I don't envy you as it's a tough task YI, but good to see you show some intent. Have to agree with mthierry, MfC and hawkeye, the site has degenerated in recent weeks and become very much anti-Nadal, and for murkier and murkier reasons. It won't drive me away but couldn't blame others if it did. Good luck...

The reason I don't support Murray is because his mothers face annoys me intensely.

lol.

Like I told you elsewhere Y I Man it becomes a worry when, the 606v2 tennis forum chooses to discuss nay slag off Rafael Nadal and Andy Murray when, as a matter of fact, there are TWO ATP500 tournaments going on in the world at the moment but on here you wouldn't know that. Perhaps because for the WUM's the fact that Nadal and Murray have swept all before them in one of those tournament they don't want to discuss the positives. Very worrying and sums up many posters heres mentality.

I honestly find the attitude of some posters ridiculous here. Complaining to the Great Master that some posters are "denigrating" their player. How childish can one get?

The "you don't know what you have until it's gone" works both ways"!

No one has complained to me Tenez, this is something that I have enquired about as a result of how the section is headed.

the problem is that most of Nadal fans here are not able to ever write anything worthy of their favourite player for the rest of us to comment on.

Tenez has made a lot of effort to provide and nurture several excellent, and may I add probably best threads here and very interesting tennis discussions.

I tend to agree with him 100% on Nadal and his tennis. I never liked it and never will. Why does that have to upset his fans?
Why do we have to walk on eggshells?

As far as I know this is no particular fan worship site, and neiter is it advertised asa fan club, so what's all the moaning about?

It's one or two thin-skinned people who obviously take all the criticism towards their player personally, can't take a well-argumented and straight-spoken opinion.

I am yet to see Tenez being rude or offensive here, and he has never been like that on 606 either. However, sooner or later there gathers a group of Nadal fans who start moaning and being aggressive. Not constructive, positive, writing threads and enriching everyone's enjoyment of tennis.

When is there going to be a Nadal fan who will write an article about him , rather than just sit and criticise other people's efforts?

Thanks NITB. What you say is so true, in particular that last sentence/question.

I have been criticising Djoko a few times but whether NITB agrees or not with me, she knows I am not just trying to denigrate her player. I am only talking about tennis and adults and smart people like NITB and many others here understand that.

This site is great cause there is no wum and the fanboys are relatively moderate with teh hardcore rafalitos gone, this site has been actually excellent and civilised...though I must say things have turned for the worse since a particular poster started to post more frequently trying to look for a fight.

"I have been criticising Djoko a few times but whether NITB agrees or not with me, she knows I am not just trying to denigrate her player. I am only talking about tennis and adults and smart people like NITB and many others here understand that. "

I actually love constructive discussions and arguments because I learn from them, and two pairs of eyes always see better than one.

I even understand that some people have maybe less experience with this type of forum,which is quite cosy and intimate, so lot of consideration needs to be taken into account when constructing an argument. You can't just punch and run away, however tempting it may be

I know Tenez isn't Nole's hottest fan, but so what? He think Nole's tennis is a bit automatic and Bolletieri school, but so what, I disagree, but I can see where he is coming from.

Some other posters here have had very different opinions, even tried to be a bit unpleasant, but that's life, you just keep going. You don't just start moaning because the world disagrees with you.

I haven't seen Andy Murray bashing comments here, but have seen enough to last me a life time on 606.
Some of those comments were funny, most of them I completely ignored - they were just base and waste of cyberspace.

Then there were the anti fed people also very witty, AIR etc, and we all took it in good humour.

I don't think anything is going on on this site, it has been getting considerably better in the last two months, and please do not try to destablise it.

I hope we are not having a Trojan horse in our midst.

"I have been criticising Djoko a few times but whether NITB agrees or not with me, she knows I am not just trying to denigrate her player. I am only talking about tennis and adults and smart people like NITB and many others here understand that. "

I actually love constructive discussions and arguments because I learn from them, and two pairs of eyes always see better than one.

I even understand that some people have maybe less experience with this type of forum,which is quite cosy and intimate, so lot of consideration needs to be taken into account when constructing and argument. You can't just punch and run away, however tempting it may be

I know Tenez isn't Nole's hottest fan, but so what? He think Nole's tennis is a bit of automatic and Bolletieri school, but so what, I disagree, but I can see where he is coming from.

Some other posters here have had very different opinions, even tried to be a bit unpleasant, but that's life, you just keep going. You don't just start moaning because the world disagrees with you.

I haven't seen Andy Murray bashing comments here, but have seen enough to last me a life time on 606.
Some of those comments were funny, most of them I completely ignored - they were just base and waste of cyberspace.

Then there were the anti fed people also very witty, AIR etc, and we all took it in good humour.

I don't think anything is going on on this site, it has been getting considerably better in the last two months, and please do not try to destablise it.

I hope we are not having a Trojan horse in our midst.

I think it has become just a tad bit over-sensitive.

I like debate and exchanging of views. Provided it is done in a constructive manner.

There are some fantastic posters on here and there are some dreadful ones. I find myself avoiding the latter hence I don't post in this section so much.

I think some of the posters need to think before they press the send button when posting utter crap which has no room for discussion or positive discussion.

noleisthebest wrote:

I haven't seen Andy Murray bashing comments here

"Bogdanovic has more backbone than Murray.

Murray isn't exactly a hero or idol material for fans to follow.

You have a major Murray fanboy syndrome"

It is the constant and needless bashing as per the above that I want stopped now.

Y I Man,

these comments will stop most efficiently if ignored. Personal experience

this is nothing compared to what went on on 606, trust me! You'll always have people carrying on like that.
I find personal insults fare more disturbing and forum damaging.
Also, don't forget it's a bit of a lull in terms of competition at the moment, so there'll be more of that kind of things going on.
It's not easy to comment on tennis when there's not a lot of it going on, especially with the off-season approaching, you need to brace yourself for more.
But I'd try to channel it all into a more amiable waters by humouring the "offenders", otherwise, you end up in agreeing with everyone, and you now it doesn't go on like that in real world, does it

It is not just a case of ignoring posts like that NITB, I dont want them posted in the first place. It is driving members away.

Y I Man wrote:It is not just a case of ignoring posts like that NITB, I dont want them posted in the first place. It is driving members away.

Yes but think about that; many posters may be peed off , llike me, because this forum is actually too ordinary and boring. The reason why I warmed at 606 was that it was a sort of unregulated free land without economic finality, were borderline charachters like JOE, Catalan and SH could express themself freely and thrive. Here on the contrary everything is so self conscious and you feel nearly an obligation to be politically correct while there is no real reason for that. Furthermore Don't think the posters who moan about the wum would contribute more has often don;t have much to say nor deep knowledge of the game. They actually post most of the time to replay to bashing articles and that say it all.

Yes we dont want boring, but we dont want that replaced by player bashing either. 606 was unpleasant at times and sometimes regular neutral posters got rounded on by a group of wums, we dont want that here. 606 is the past. To me there seems to be abit of tennis snobbery on here at times about who has the deepest knowledge of tennis - you dont have to be a tennis scholar to add valid opinions...

Reading through some of the comments by all these thoughtful considerate posters who are obviously fair minded and balanced at all times. I'm left wondering who exactly stirred up trouble with homophobic and vile comments about one of the all time great players that prompted the writing of this article in the first place?

I can't understand why tennis fans don't write more articles celebrating the achievements, talents and skills of this truly great player here on 606v2. Its obvious that they would be welcomed with enthusiasm or if not enthusiasm then constuctive criticism...

hawkeye wrote:Reading through some of the comments by all these thoughtful considerate posters who are obviously fair minded and balanced at all times. I'm left wondering who exactly stirred up trouble with homophobic and vile comments about one of the all time great players that prompted the writing of this article in the first place?

I can't understand why tennis fans don't write more articles celebrating the achievements, talents and skills of this truly great player here on 606v2. Its obvious that they would be welcomed with enthusiasm or if not enthusiasm then constuctive criticism...

As for the Nadal celebratory articles I can only speak for myself: I am a Federer fan, I never liked Nadal that much and think he has achived much more than a player with his talent should. Now tell me why a ManU fan should say wonders about Chelsea. Is the world as I used it to know still functioning or are we living in a cage of fools?

It doesn't bother me in the slightest what people make of Nadal's game. The tedious repetition across multiple threads of the same viewpoint does nothing for the forum though in my view.

As for rudeness, Lydian touches upon something I have definitely noticed re snobbery. To me it is rude to dismiss the validity of someone's opinion based on intangible concepts such as 'knowledge' and 'understanding'. Nitb, you probably don't notice this as you are part of the approved inner sanctum.

approved inner sanctum...

Positively 4th Street wrote:It doesn't bother me in the slightest what people make of Nadal's game. The tedious repetition across multiple threads of the same viewpoint does nothing for the forum though in my view.

As for rudeness, Lydian touches upon something I have definitely noticed re snobbery. To me it is rude to dismiss the validity of someone's opinion based on intangible concepts such as 'knowledge' and 'understanding'. Nitb, you probably don't notice this as you are part of the approved inner sanctum.

For me is very rude to dismiss posters who express critical point of view about players calling them wum......

Jeremy_Kyle wrote:

hawkeye wrote:Reading through some of the comments by all these thoughtful considerate posters who are obviously fair minded and balanced at all times. I'm left wondering who exactly stirred up trouble with homophobic and vile comments about one of the all time great players that prompted the writing of this article in the first place?

I can't understand why tennis fans don't write more articles celebrating the achievements, talents and skills of this truly great player here on 606v2. Its obvious that they would be welcomed with enthusiasm or if not enthusiasm then constuctive criticism...

As for the Nadal celebratory articles I can only speak for myself: I am a Federer fan, I never liked Nadal that much and think he has achived much more than a player with his talent should. Now tell me why a ManU fan should say wonders about Chelsea. Is the world as I used it to know still functioning or are we living in a cage of fools?

Fair enough. But would you want to talk about Man U in a place with (cough) vocal Chelsea supporters who were of the opinion that Man U should be in division 4 and every time Man U were mentioned jumped in to say in great detail why and also threw in a few "facts" about how all the players had personality flaws and hinted that everything might not be quite what it seems or worse? You might if you just wanted confrontation or the chance to say something similar about Chelsea. Maybe you wouldn't if you wanted a disscusion about Man U's tactics, players or recent matches. Or this might be more unusual for football fans ... quite like Man U and Chelsea.

My comment was really a response to earlier ones questioning the lack of posative Nadal articles here (amongst other things). I was speculating why this might be the case.

hawkeye wrote:
Fair enough. But would you want to talk about Man U in a place with (cough) vocal Chelsea supporters who were of the opinion that Man U should be in division 4 and every time Man U were mentioned jumped in to say in great detail why and also threw in a few "facts" about how all the players had personality flaws and hinted that everything might not be quite what it seems or worse? You might if you just wanted confrontation or the chance to say something similar about Chelsea. Maybe you wouldn't if you wanted a disscusion about Man U's tactics, players or recent matches. Or this might be more unusual for football fans ... quite like Man U and Chelsea.

My comment was really a response to earlier ones questioning the lack of posative Nadal articles here (amongst other things). I was speculating why this might be the case.

One of the reasons why I miss the old 606 is that there you could find as many Feder's, Nadal's and Murray's bashers as supporters. This, in my view, made that forum more lively and ultimately, more fun.

That's fair enough JK but this forum has definitely been more anti-Nadal in its overall flavour in my opinion from quite some time back and that has led to a lot of Nadal fans (even just lukewarm fans, and I'm no avid fan myself either) leaving this place leaving no-one around to post articles. The level of anti-Nadal discussion on here hasn't been balanced (again in my opinion), its been all about dissecting why he's not a great player over and over again. I know of at least 2 posters who have left who were knowledgeable posters who were attacked relentlessly for expressing effectively pro-Nadal comments (they werent the long gone Rafa fan club members either). There's definitely tennis-knowledge and talent-level snobbery in here, and like Positively 4th said and I agree, there's an inner sanctum thats pretty much anti-Nadal which seems to be the main clique on here. I feel like an outsider so I just mainly browse these days.

JK

I agree. Its when a forum is full of posters "bashing" one particular player and supporting another particular player it gets tedious. It may as well be a fan site...

It doesn't even have to be "full" of such posters. Just a few if they are vocal and persistant enough can make it feel like it is...

Tennis is about winning: money and titles in particular. To players, if they win ugly or not is the most unimportant possible issue.

There have been in the past players winning the big prizes in far uglier fashion than Nadal such as: Wilander, Vilas and Borg are all primary example.

So I just don't get what is the metter if somebody says Nadal wins through power and fitness. You can't cancel his wins, you just can say if you are keen or not on that kind of game style......

hawkeye wrote:JK

I agree. Its when a forum is full of posters "bashing" one particular player and supporting another particular player it gets tedious. It may as well be a fan site...

It doesn't even have to be "full" of such posters. Just a few if they are vocal and persistant enough can make it feel like it is...

yes, exactly: the far majority of posters have balanced views on here, for my taste too uniformed as I explained before.

The forum has swung quite drastically from being fairly pro Nadal (during RG) to fairly pro Federer/Djokovic, with a number of new pro Federer posters coming on board and most of the old ones staying on or returning.

I'm not particularly anti Nadal or anti any player, I do pose some questions about Nadal and his records but you won't find me ever insulting his playing style or his achievements. What I noticed was that the exodus of many pro Nadal posters happened after Wimbledon when he lost, not before. It was only after then that posts generally become more negative about Nadal (not many pro Nadal posters left to defend him) and that's increased since the USO. The loss after the USO has just kept most of the pro Nadal fans away, but it wasn't relentless Nadal bashing which drove them away in the first place, it was the Wimbledon loss. I noticed a couple of them resurfaced after Federer lost to Djokovic @ the USO Semis but then quickly disappeared after Nadal's loss in the final.

I don't condone or excuse player bashing though. I hope we can also have less discussion about physicality in tennis too....I actually found those threads the most boring., it just ends up being a perpetual argument and mainly denigrating Nadal, that's why I don't contribute to those threads at all.

People complain about the site being biased against Nadal, but I've found that with honourable exceptions most Nadal fans tend to be over-excited ladies who cleared off as soon as the Match point was despatched at Wimbledon. That's why the whole balance swung so fast - and it wasn't that people left because they didn't like the tone of the debate, it was because the limitations of their player have become so exposed that any debate is only going to leave them struggling.

This leaves little in the way of constructive debate about Nadal.

I think the other thing is that some of us who have seen Nadals limitations can't help but say that they saw all this coming.

It is not just against Nadal, as my post in this thread with Murray comments has shown.

Jeremy_Kyle wrote:

Positively 4th Street wrote:It doesn't bother me in the slightest what people make of Nadal's game. The tedious repetition across multiple threads of the same viewpoint does nothing for the forum though in my view.

As for rudeness, Lydian touches upon something I have definitely noticed re snobbery. To me it is rude to dismiss the validity of someone's opinion based on intangible concepts such as 'knowledge' and 'understanding'. Nitb, you probably don't notice this as you are part of the approved inner sanctum.

For me is very rude to dismiss posters who express critical point of view about players calling them wum......

I agree JK, but have not done that myself so am not sure who that is directed at really.

The mass exodus of Nadal fans did seem a little rash and has skewed things somewhat. I disagree that there is no room for constructive debate about Nadal, once the schadenfreude dies down then perhaps things will improve.

Alternatively, we can wait 20 years and then he'll be canonised like Borg.

Positively 4th Street wrote:

Jeremy_Kyle wrote:

Positively 4th Street wrote:It doesn't bother me in the slightest what people make of Nadal's game. The tedious repetition across multiple threads of the same viewpoint does nothing for the forum though in my view.

As for rudeness, Lydian touches upon something I have definitely noticed re snobbery. To me it is rude to dismiss the validity of someone's opinion based on intangible concepts such as 'knowledge' and 'understanding'. Nitb, you probably don't notice this as you are part of the approved inner sanctum.

For me is very rude to dismiss posters who express critical point of view about players calling them wum......

I agree JK, but have not done that myself so am not sure who that is directed at really.

The mass exodus of Nadal fans did seem a little rash and has skewed things somewhat. I disagree that there is no room for constructive debate about Nadal, once the schadenfreude dies down then perhaps things will improve.

Alternatively, we can wait 20 years and then he'll be canonised like Borg.

Unlikely

Meet me back here in 20 years and we will see, unless you meant that you can't wait that long and want it to be sooner?

Y I Man wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:

I haven't seen Andy Murray bashing comments here

"Bogdanovic has more backbone than Murray.

Murray isn't exactly a hero or idol material for fans to follow.

You have a major Murray fanboy syndrome"

It is the constant and needless bashing as per the above that I want stopped now.

2 of these 3 are my comments, I accept. I also must apologize for them. But do you see what all abusive mudslinging I have to face from Murray fans? Just see some of the most and the kind of language they have used in their replies. I've apologized for my over reacting comments, I always have if I do. But will they have the courage to do the same??? CC I remember did once. , but others???

Josiah Maiestas wrote:What mass exodus of Nadal fans? You do realise most of his fans come from Spain, East Asia and Africa. I would say though, had Nadal not beaten Murray so often in slams, he would have more fans in Anglo speaking world.

The fans from the Nadal corner of this site is who I meant, perhaps it was before your arrival. This is a small forum, you do realise that most tennis fans don't frequent this site?

PM for Josiah, please read it.

Nadal "fans" who left, almost never visited this part of the forum, but were always in their Rafateers world, except to come and tell me to tone down, when I had about of after Nole beat Nadal in Madrid....I don't miss them at all.

Thanks for making me the scapegoat, Y I Man. Where were the mods when Simple_Analyst and sonic_boom10 were running the joint?!

If you want to do this in public rather than via pm, then lets go for it.

You posted a pathetic statement classifying the fans of Nadal. That is the exact type of posts I want stopped, so you go and post it on this thread
:facepalm:

That is not making you a scapegoat at all. That is me sticking to my word by saying that I am clamping down on that rubbish.

Well, if the Nadal fans find it so easy to not post here anymore, then it just proves they are not really being fans of tennis. Of course, i'd prefer them not to leave either. Or is that another "pathetic statement"?

Who are you to say they are not fans of tennis?

I could say that about you because all you do is take the p out of people for supporting a certain player, or taking the p out of a certain player.

No it just proves they are peed off with reading rubbish post about one of the all-time greats of the sport just as Murray fans are peed off with the garbage, the trying to put words in his mouth, the belittling of and constant slagging off of Murray.

Tell you what perhaps all those that want to post that kind of tripe start their own forum if they honestly believe true tennis fans want to read verbal diarrhoea like that.

Less than half my posts are taking the p out of players, I wish you wouldn't exaggerate that "all you do is take the p". When there are no big tournaments on, I do admit to taking the p half the time, but I usually don't go over the line.

pm for Josiah

If a moderator is at their wits end on a forum as generally well-informed and articulate as this then expectations are unrealistic. Moderation should be about measured facilitation of lively debate - so what if there are some spiky characters, some wums. Things sometimes get a bit personal - big whoops. For my money, and as a moderator myself, I think some of the language used in the moderation recently, some of the frustration obviously felt, suggests an inappropriate approach.

I'm not saying less moderation needed, just to be realistic about the nature of internet forums.