Wales training squad cuts

First topic message reminder :

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/welsh/14131218.stm

"Jonathan Thomas, Andy Powell and Richie Rees have been omitted from Wales' World Cup training preparations, BBC Sport Wales understands.

The three will not be making the trip to Poland on Saturday with the rest of coach Warren Gatland's squad for the last of two 10-day training camps.

Ken Owens, Lou Reed and Andrew Bishop will also be left behind.

But Stephen Jones, who missed the first training camp for the birth of his first child, will be travelling.

Gatland selected an initial 45-man training squad, but the Wales coach has trimmed the numbers down to 35 as he takes the players for a second week of intense training in Spala."


I'm shocked that Rees, Powell and JT have all been cut, but i think on form they're the right choices. I would assume this means that Toby and Devle are set to go, which can only been good news. I'd also assume this means Mike Phillips is a certainty now aswell. I dont think that anyone was expecting Reed or Owens to make the squad. I personally would have prefered to see Owens going over Bennet, but the chances of that were always low. Bishops chances were always low with the form of JD2 and Scott Williams.

Thoughts?

yes surprised about rees and also a bit with bishop, as he is a solid player however he has alot competition for the 12 jersey so...

wish owens would be in instead of bennet-havent seen owens play but must be a better hooker than bennet

Got to love your cheek scarlet!!!

manofgwent wrote:Fly half. Just watch gatland and howley not get the best from our backs.

Kultschar. Agree with everything you say about Rees and being a year too late.

I know i keep saying it but it is all to do with the players playing whats in front of them and making decisions. My point being that if you think of the good things that the Welsh backline did this last 18 months, and I know there are not so many but bare with me here, I would presume you would think those things were un coached and all the bad negative or stupid things they did, of which there are far too many, were coached.

Instinct in situations plays a massive part of how you perform in any sport. When you are confronted with a situation you have to react. A great player like Dan Carter plays superbly 90% of the time. He makes the correct decisions. That is not from coaching, that is from his ability to read what is happening immediately and in general.

Gatland and his coaches have constantly said that they want the team to play "what they see in front of them", and I believe that is what is being coached.

What is happening when things go wrong is that players from 9 to 15 are taking on decision because of their lack of confidence in their own ability to beat the opposition.

Case in point regarding confidence would be to look at the two SA games Wales played last year. The first we started in our shells and looked poor, but as the pairings worked and Wales came together confidence grew and we had a close result. The second test a similar group of player were confident that they could beat SA and gave them a hell of a game, that didn't have so much silly kicking and had some great tries.

This summers get together over the next few months will be great for the squad and we should see a more confident product at the end, they also have some good opposition to try out players, ideas and hopefully make good partnerships.

manofgwent wrote:Fly half. Just watch gatland and howley not get the best from our backs.

Kultschar. Agree with everything you say about Rees and being a year too late.

Mate I can bet my best kilt, you end up slow ball from "the military two step Phillips" to Hook Jones or Priestland and forcing them to produce a kicking game which is foreign to them

And I have said it for the last 3-4 years only changes when he is forced into it i.e. Bradley Davies was only brought into the side because of injuries...... he's missed a trick with Priestland and Williams

I feel for you guys

manofgwent wrote:Got to love your cheek scarlet!!!

You cheeky monkey SS

Have ro say an on form Shane & 1/2p will rock and roll with those players around them , and Williams punches above his weight defensively I remember his awesome performance against Agentina when he turned a player over twice his size on the tryline and scored 2 tries.............. drool drool drool

It will all equate to an interesting solution.

I think it is of great relevance, whether positive or negative, that since 2008, when you could name the 1st choice Welsh team with out debate that now we have so much debate as to who why and where.

Personally I think it is great that there is more competition for places, hopefully that pushes the players in pole position to perform better and those not to do so also.

What makes me happiest of all though is that we are quickly dispensing of the "also-rans" like Powell, Rees or Thomas who have now served their purpose so that we can move forward.

Should this world cup go well, there could well be a new emergence of stars within the side. Should it go badly god knows what we should do?

Impossible Standards wrote:

Best thing about Gareth Jenkins when the BBC made a documentary about his time in charge of the national team. It was more a rugby mike Bassett type film. It summed it up for me when they interviews him on the beach at the end and in the background his two dogs were going at it, hell for leather!! It was what sky+ was made for! Genius!

Classic TV moment that was...

What also amused me was he had the same hair style as his dogs!

I look forward to hearing from you two when you've played in a match against the All Blacks and WON or coached a team to victories in grud knows how many leagues and cups and a victory against the world champions.

Our backs appear to function the best when they are mainly from within one region, I assume it is a confidence in the player next to you thing. So theoretically if we did have a backline along the lines of the following then maybe the players would have a bit more confidence in each others abilty in attack

Knoyle
Jones/Priestland
Shane Williams
Davies
Roberts / Hook
1/2p / North
Byrne / Stoddart

Fly half. Gatland admitted that he'd brought through more players than he wanted. You're right. A lot of players have only gained their place through being picked instead of an injured player and then showing how good they are.

Maestrg. I was at the SA game in November and we were excellent in patches, but when SA scored after the break, players seemed to be looking for a leader and nobody put their hand up. Sometimes you watch Wales and you can see what will happen. We'll have great patches of play, then go missing for long periods. Strange.

manofgwent wrote:
Maestrg. I was at the SA game in November and we were excellent in patches, but when SA scored after the break, players seemed to be looking for a leader and nobody put their hand up. Sometimes you watch Wales and you can see what will happen. We'll have great patches of play, then go missing for long periods. Strange.

Leadership could well be an issue.. It is a young team the leaders are few and far between. Ryan Jones, Matthew Rees, Adam Jones, Gethin Jenkins, Steven Jones, Martyn and Shane Williams are likely to be the blokes who younger inexperienced players turn to.

Not all those lads are guaranteed a starting place this RWC.

TBS. Dong get out of your pram!

I actually quite like Gareth Jenkins and thought the stick he was getting 4 years ago was lpretty harsh. The media tried to make a joke out of the man, which was massively unfair on a guy who was an excellent club coach and showed great dignity throughout.

Just saying that the clip was hilarious!

Just checking... Did Llanelli beat the all blacks? You've all kept that one quiet. I wouldn't have known if you hadnt said.

Just because you best the all blacks. It doesn't mean you can't get a decent hair cut!

manofgwent wrote:TBS. Dong get out of your pram!

I actually quite like Gareth Jenkins and thought the stick he was getting 4 years ago was lpretty harsh. The media tried to make a joke out of the man, which was massively unfair on a guy who was an excellent club coach and showed great dignity throughout. !

Here here

and i think that the WRU did a good job of repositioning him into a role he suits and he does excel at...

maestegmafia wrote:

manofgwent wrote:TBS. Dong get out of your pram!

I actually quite like Gareth Jenkins and thought the stick he was getting 4 years ago was lpretty harsh. The media tried to make a joke out of the man, which was massively unfair on a guy who was an excellent club coach and showed great dignity throughout. !

Here here

and i think that the WRU did a good job of repositioning him into a role he suits and he does excel at...

To be honest Gareth Jenkins is doing a pretty good job (and one his is very good at) at the moment within a region that he cares about, and that generally care about him. After all the young Scarlets are doing rather well at the moment

manofgwent wrote:Best thing about Gareth Jenkins when the BBC made a documentary about his time in charge of the national team. It was more a rugby mike Bassett type film. It summed it up for me when they interviews him on the beach at the end and in the background his two dogs were going at it, hell for leather!! It was what sky+ was made for! Genius!

I watched that documentary, and my main memory of it is seeing Robin McBryde giving a talk to the forwards. It had less to do with tactics and techniques than it did with Buddhist koans. The players looked completely lost. Surely you want your forwards hitting rucks rather than attaining enlightenment?

luckless_pedestrian wrote:

manofgwent wrote:Best thing about Gareth Jenkins when the BBC made a documentary about his time in charge of the national team. It was more a rugby mike Bassett type film. It summed it up for me when they interviews him on the beach at the end and in the background his two dogs were going at it, hell for leather!! It was what sky+ was made for! Genius!

I watched that documentary, and my main memory of it is seeing Robin McBryde giving a talk to the forwards. It had less to do with tactics and techniques than it did with Buddhist koans. The players looked completely lost. Surely you want your forwards hitting rucks rather than attaining enlightenment?

nothing wrong with a couple of pints of enlightenment

float like a butterfly sting like a bee

manofgwent wrote:TBS. Dong get out of your pram!

I actually quite like Gareth Jenkins and thought the stick he was getting 4 years ago was lpretty harsh. The media tried to make a joke out of the man, which was massively unfair on a guy who was an excellent club coach and showed great dignity throughout.

Just saying that the clip was hilarious!

Just checking... Did Llanelli beat the all blacks? You've all kept that one quiet. I wouldn't have known if you hadnt said.

Just because you best the all blacks. It doesn't mean you can't get a decent hair cut!

Fair enough - it's because of that stick I'm a bit short on patience over Jenkins although I'm the 1st to admit he went downhill after the late 90's and hit rock bottom with Wales.

Yes we beat NZ ... shhhh, don't tell anyone

Totallybiasedscarlet wrote:Yes we beat NZ ... shhhh, don't tell anyone

So did Newport!

luckless_pedestrian wrote:

Totallybiasedscarlet wrote:Yes we beat NZ ... shhhh, don't tell anyone

So did Newport!

Did I mention Australia?

I personally think these cuts are good news, as none of the players cut should in my view make the squad.

Looks like Gatland is on my wave length, which must mean he's on the right lines

You've got us there, TBS!

manofgwent wrote:I actually quite like Gareth Jenkins and thought the stick he was getting 4 years ago was lpretty harsh. The media tried to make a joke out of the man, which was massively unfair on a guy who was an excellent club coach and showed great dignity throughout.

I don't think it was harsh I thought Wales was a bloody shambles when he was our coach!
I wanted Gareth to get the job and to succed as did all of Wales, but he made a total hash of it.
In 20 games he won 6, drew 1 and lost 13!
When he was coach Scotland stuffed us 21-9! Italy beat us, New Zealand and Australia totally stuffed us! England beat us 62-5, we were lucky to beat Canada in the World Cup, and then went on to lose to Fiji.
Frankly Jenkins tenure as Welsh coach was a disgrace and one of the direst periods in our rugby history. That's not to say he did good things at Llanelli but he failed badly with Wales and deserved the sack. He was out of his depth.

driving to work this morning i heard that gatland has trimmed his squad, andy powell and richie rees a among the casualties,seems like toby falatue (spelling) has convinced gatland that powell is no longer needed?
thoughts.


Edit, I merged this one into the main thread -

Alyn, any fair evaluation has to acknowledge positives as well as negatives. Under Gareth Jenkins, we came as close as any Welsh side has since 1969 to beating the Wallabies in Australia. If it hadn't been for two poor kicks by Gareth Cooper, we would have won.

According to BeeB, both of the above players have been sent home from the Poland training camps and won't be taking any further part. This probably means it's likely that neither will feature in the final WC squad. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/14131218.stm

I have to say I am really pleased about this as I think Powell is a liability, and we finally have some good number 8's in the team which renders him unnecessary and J Thomas hasn't brought anything to the team for a long time.

The timing, however, seems a bit strange as surely you'd want to keep the competition up and have enough players in each position to put good drills in

Hi smirnoff, this topic was covered yesterday, I think it's been moved into the subsection so I'll just merge this for you now

Ohh cheers for that - I did have a look for a thread but couldn't see any.

From planetrugby.co.uk: "Wales trio Andy Powell, Gareth Delve and Dwayne Peel are among twelve players omitted from their squad for the second RWC training camp. Warren Galtand's side are due to spend ten days in Spala, Poland, as they step up their preparations for the tournament in New Zealand. However the trio will remain behind in Wales alongside Jason Tovey, Richard Hibbard, Scott Andrews, Andrew Bishop, Ken Owens, Lou Reed, Richie Rees, Jonathan Thomas and John Yapp." (forgive the repeat if this has already been posted)

ah no there's some new names in there from what I was aware of As so thank you

Hibbard and Tovey must still be struggling with their injuries, and all I can say is it's good news for Wales if Yapp and Andrews have been cut! Jenkins, James, Jones and Mitchell should be more than good enough for us I hope!

Just for info, the players who have been left behind aren't definitely cut from the WC squad. Although it probably doesn't help their cause, they are still being considered for selection.

Yeah they'll be considered Rev but I think it's a fairly strong indication they won't be first choice, or I hope not anyway (apart from with regards to Delve and Peel but then they are in a rather unique situation). Maybe they've seen enough so that if we have injuries or something they know who they can call on.

dreamer, why is Delve unavailable? With the S15 over, is he contractually bound for a local Aussie cup tournie?

As - honestly don't know 100% I just remember reading somewhere that neither he or Peel would be available before August. Must be something to do with a contractual agreement, or maybe the Rebels want more compensation then the WRU are willing to give or something. Will do a scout around to see if I can find anything.

It looks as if Bennett is on the plane if Hibbard is out

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/14131218.stm

So we've left out Andy Powell, Jon Thomas and Rees from the next training camp in Poland. Is this a sign of things to come or just some rotation policy so all players get a chance at the hard training?

Also:

"Ken Owens, Lou Reed, Andrew Bishop, John Yapp and Scott Andrews will also be left behind."

In my opinion Bishop is the only one with a chance of making the squad. How Scott Andrews even got a call-up in the first place...

Anyway we were all hoping Powell and JT wouldn't make the final cut but if Rees is to be dropped our scrum halves start to look a bit thin with Williams and Knoyle being in-experienced and Peel way off form and having release issues.

Peel does not have release issues. IRB regulations ensure he is available for the defined IRB release periods. If the WRU want him outside of the those internationally agreed periods then they should have signed him to a "region" or asked him to insert a clause in his contract to release him from his current contract.

already been done mate

Where has it been done?

Oh, I scrolled to the bottom and checked. Perhaps I should have checked the next page. Hopefully they merge this with that one then.

ah its fine mate, its in a different section so awkward to see

So lets assume they've been cut.

Shocked at the amount of people here rating Dwayne Peel and Martyn Williams and backing them to make the final squad. Do you guys not watch rugby?

Interesting in today's WM, Gatland is impressed with Burns but he has some throwing issues, maybe Bennett has been kept in the squad to give him some tips!

It seems Hibbard has not recovered from his shoulder injury and Tovey has a back injury hence no holiday to Poland! Who will be cut after the Polish trip due to injury and selection? The only big surprise to be cut is Rees and to a less extent is J Thomas.

Agree with you SS - it would be frightening except for the fact you know Gatland will tell Jones to play a kicking game, will allow Phillips to spend 20 mins at each ruck before going down the blindside and getting turned over, and the centres (let alone the wings) won't get any ball.

Apologies didn't see the 2nd page. This was meant for the ScarletsSpiderman comment off the 1st page

BBC Wales news today Gatland has recalled Powell and J Thomas into the games coming up, this sounds like bad news to me in that this may be that some of the new players in the squad are not as good as they hyped up to be e.g., Delve, Toby F, Turnbull, McCuster who knows!

Oh great, the dynamic duo are back!

My thoughts as well, the worrying outcome is how bad is our strength in depth to pull these guys back into the squad!

It's not that bad. We all know there ARE better players available than JT, Powell, Andrews and Bennet. I can understand the other 3 being there for cover when we're down to our bare bones... but Andrews? He's a big lad that goes backwards in the scrum constantly. Bennet's days are surely numbered with Burns and Owens in line ready.

Glam Al, I don't think it's any reflection on our strength in depth as we all know there are (and have been for at least a year) better players than Powell, JT, Bennett & Andrews but Gats seems to have this weird obsession with them - and I think it's more of a sign that Gats picks (and always has) his favourites.

And Notts I wouldn't be so sure - I reckon if Gats still here after the WC so will Bennett, and Burns, Owens and Hibbert will be fighting it out for the 3rd Hooker place.