All Black Training Squad

Blues: Charlie Faumuina, Ma'a Nonu, Keven Mealamu, Piri Weepu, Ali Williams and Tony Woodcock.

Chiefs: Sam Cane, Aaron Cruden, Richard Kahui, Tawera Kerr-Barlow, Brodie Retallick, Ben Tameifuna and Sonny Bill Williams.

Hurricanes: Beauden Barrett, Cory Jane, Julian Savea, Brad Shields, Conrad Smith and Victor Vito.

Crusaders: Daniel Carter, Wyatt Crockett, Israel Dagg, Andy Ellis, Ben Franks, Owen Franks, Richie McCaw, Kieran Read, Luke Romano, Luke Whitelock and Samuel Whitelock.

Highlanders: Tamati Ellison, Andrew Hore, Aaron Smith, Ben Smith and Adam Thomson.

How Robbie Fruean has not been selected is beyond me? he has been absolutely mesmerizing in attack this season and put in some big hits and quality cover tackles.in defence, something which he has improved immeasurably. He's absolutely gas and extremely powerful, always breaching the gainline. I'd put him in my world XV, so the fact he didn't make the All Black training squad is dumbfounding.

Other notable omissions include Matt Todd, who has played very well this season in McCaws absence. I would also have liked to have seen TJ Perenara given a chance to impress. Whilst Masaga and Andre Taylor are unlucky not to get called up.

Thoughts?

Would say that Gear and Guildford are pretty big omissions, along with Perenara and Todd.

Hansen is obviously making some firm statements though, going with youth, especially in the forwards. Ellison seems a strangeish pick, although in great form, i'd still have Fruean first, especially with age on his side. With Kahui out injured for so long, still might see Fruean get a call up though.

I thought Luke Whitelock had been playing 7 in Richie's absence? He might be a blindside though, very confusing with 4 whitelocks in one team!

If Robbie fruen was selected for this squad it would only be as a centre,and with Smith and Tamati Ellison there,being the centres that set up their wings.Fruen has defensive issues (I'm not saying that he cant tackle ) but more that he loses other defenders around him and pulls out of line.

I thought Perenara might have been selected also. I guess some of these guys will represent the Junior All Blacks or NZ Maori if they have any fixtures soon?

Also, who are the wings who have been selected ahead of Gear and Guildford? If that's justified then you must have some depth to keep them out. I'd put Maitland into that category too, I think he can make the step-up.

No Andre Taylor is nothing short of criminal. The damage that young man could do behind the All Black pack with Carter at 10...

Beauden Barritt has certainly risen through the ranks quickly to be making the AB team already.

Andre Taylor is a pretty big omission , Dagg hasnt been firing on all cylinders this season , Taylor has !

I hope that Fruean and Taylor are introduced at some stage this year like against Argentina at home or for the autumn internationals at the end of the year. Not sure about the squad size restrictions and who will be the movers and shakers after the Ireland series but talent like that needs to be recognised in order to keep them in the picture and not heading off overseas.

Haven't really been exposed to all the new players particularly in the forwards but Hika Eliot is another big omission for me even though the experience of Hore and Mealamu is very difficult to cast aside. I certainly hope he too makes the side at some stage this year.

Todd always seems to lose out to rebuilding McCaw's match fitness. I don't think McCaw should be playing at the moment (I hope Read is alright after being dropped by his forwards in a lineout) but maybe McCaw might swtich to 8 this week and Todd come into openside.

Generally a few players people know very little about outside of NZ tend to become well recognised names very soon and I think there is an overall nice blend of experience and youth to this squad but they will come under the spotlight more when the squad size gets trimmed for the Irish tests.

Guys like Perenara, Todd, Taylor and Fruen are still young.
Their time will come.
To be "da man u gotta beat da man"

Agree gunner. Another coach would have some of those in for just as good a reason as hansen has picked those he has.

They will have their time. Fruean and gear definitely seem on the outer though. Since the team naming im thinking fruean might be more successful as a wing as positionally hes not mature enough as a centre. As wing he could do the same damage without worrying about the leadership and management of space needed at centre. Not as quick as some wings but quick enough.

I like Ellison who has never put a foot wrong and has timed his entry back to nz rugby well...avoiding world cup pressures. Not too well known yet but will have people talking before the years out.

Tamati Ellison was the kid from the Stand By Me AB ad back in the day. Remember it Kiwis?

I'm not sold on Freuan's positioning either. Glad Guildford's not in the squad and I guess Savea's coming on so well that he'll have more of an X Factor than Gear. I like that-I feel we have a complete footballer on one wing with Jane who also has fullback experience and the nous to cover the 11 having a crack, so having an 11 with said X factor is great and good for balance too.

Kerr-Barlow and Smith are two uncapped players. You can't have three out of the four in that squad not having played a Test. There are always going to be grumbles about experienced guys not in form but Hansen's picked a lot of youth and I think it'll get the older ones back on their toes and performing. Barrett is interesting, as is the lack of Hoeata. We need some mongrel...

Savea was a star at U20s 2 yrs ago?
Suffered a bit from the Wgtn upheavals last yr with Hammet.
Talented and big.
Scored heaps of tries at U20 RWC.

With Savea...and he 'confidently' admitted it on our news tonight that the transition to the higher level has been about confidence. Hes gained that gradually which is a very good sign for the future.

If hed come on after world under 20s guns blazing hed probably have burnt out by now. I think hes been managed well, kept under the radar in terms of expectations and is now showing his potential with the confidence he has gained.

That try last weekend i think for us kiwis hit us in the right place in the pit of the stomach the way great players have in the past and were thinking finally we might have something special here after all.

The young players are there for experience,two named are injured at least until end.of super15.Loose forwards the stablished trio is a no brainer,George Whitelock included because he can play Right/Left with McCaw if needs be.
Starting Front row the established players plus Crockett.Locks Whitelock and Ali Williams with either,Romano or Berkhuis on the bench.Ellis/Weepu at 9,Crudon/Carter 10,Conrad Smith 13,Nonu/SBW 12 wings Cory Jane,maybe Dagg with Ben Smith at FB or vice versa.Andre Taylor and Matt Todd maybe considered long term.Fruen may get in for Kahui dito Hika Elliott.

Rapt for faumuina. Another otahuhu all black hopefully following in the tradition of waka nathan, mac herewini and mealamu. Although hes injured should feature at ab level in the future.

Rapt for faumuina. Another otahuhu all black hopefully following in the tradition of waka nathan, mac herewini and mealamu. Although hes injured should feature at ab level in the future.

Morgannwg wrote:I thought Perenara might have been selected also. I guess some of these guys will represent the Junior All Blacks or NZ Maori if they have any fixtures soon?

Also, who are the wings who have been selected ahead of Gear and Guildford? If that's justified then you must have some depth to keep them out. I'd put Maitland into that category too, I think he can make the step-up.

Sean Maitland is obviously holding out for a call up for the Scotland team

Taylorman wrote:Rapt for faumuina. Another otahuhu all black hopefully following in the tradition of waka nathan, mac herewini and mealamu. Although hes injured should feature at ab level in the future.

Barry Ashworth,Ron Urlich...ah Nostalgia.

Liam Messam and Zac Guildford didn't get called up either. A few dodgy decisions in my opinion.

emack2 wrote:The young players are there for experience,two named are injured at least until end.of super15.Loose forwards the stablished trio is a no brainer,George Whitelock included because he can play Right/Left with McCaw if needs be.
Starting Front row the established players plus Crockett.Locks Whitelock and Ali Williams with either,Romano or Berkhuis on the bench.Ellis/Weepu at 9,Crudon/Carter 10,Conrad Smith 13,Nonu/SBW 12 wings Cory Jane,maybe Dagg with Ben Smith at FB or vice versa.Andre Taylor and Matt Todd maybe considered long term.Fruen may get in for Kahui dito Hika Elliott.

Luke was selected not George - strange I reckon
Berhuis not selected either and don't really see why Romano selected.
Fruean has no chance at this stage and I don't mind Guildford and Gear missing out though I don't really believe Saeva has surpassed them yet.

Agree Taylor and Todd are probably the future though interesting how Sam Cane and Brad Shields have been selected

Misread the squad George has indeed been omittted,Luke is supposedly the best of the Whitelock clan.Covering Read at number 8,Gear has`nt impressed since his debut year.IF he is going North why bother to invest in him Guildford pre drink problem was on fire.Savea is one for the future expect SBW or Ben Smith at Wing.

I think after being in the camp and hearing foxy tonight savea might be included in the main side to face ireland. Especially with kahui now out.

Ellis/ a.smith, cruden, sbw, c.smith, savea, jane and dagg would make one hell of a fast, huge backline.

Are you suggesting that carter may not play?

Who else won't be there?

Hasn't Carter been playing 12 for the Crusaders? Maybe he will be rested for this series in order to regain 100% fitness along with McCaw. Give some of the young guns a chance to stake a claim whilst the big names are ready to step in should they be needed.

Carters at 12 and not kicking. The rebels match and the saders inability to get over the line suggests all is not well in the backline there.

Foxy said tonight they dont need him for ireland and are happy with crudens form. Hes one of the best 10s around at the moment and with that backline could be a real handful.

Id be more than ok if that were the lineup. Big and quick. Crudens a sharp runner as well and he and sbw have built an understanding hence sbws more likely to be there than nonu at this stage.

The Crusaders seem to always pay to get Carter and McCaw back up to speed. Not that that's the only reason for their woeful attack of late.

If BOD plays at 13, even not at full pace, he could outfox Fruean on attack. If BOD didn't play, then I think he could do some damage running at someone smaller than him as the replacement OCs seemed to be. That said, Hansen will probably go for that backline Taylorman and the halfbacks might get a half each depending on the score. Carter and McCaw still need time.

Taylorman wrote:
Ellis/ a.smith, cruden, sbw, c.smith, savea, jane and dagg would make one hell of a fast, huge backline.

It's only Sonny Bill and J Savea that are the big guys in that backline. I've seen quite a lot of Cruden. I think he is solid enough to play for the AB's atm but too average to be a consisten squad members. I think he will be surpassed by other 10's in a year or two.

Btw taylor, if you were playing a fully fit Wales backline do you think you'd select Carter, Nonu and SB Williams as the midfield?

Hi Morgan,
For me Conrad Smith will be the first name on the page in the backs. Hes got it all as a centre and is the smartest around in terms of managing those around him.

ABs will never go in with a nonu williams 12-13.

Carter when fully fit yes but I havnt seen it in the last 12 months and id prefer form over yesterday. Cruden is a talented player and is growing in confidence. Hes done the hard work, now kicks with a high level of accuracy and distance.

When i meant big and fast sbw and savea provide the bulk in the right places for the rest to feed off. This is a smart, tough backline that i think is the best we can muster.

Id have tamati ellison at centre before nonu or sbw as well. Just needs a different skillset.

Dagg jane and nonu have been a little quiet but all 3 have proven form when stepping up to tests. Quite remarkedly so in all honesty.

Saveas no lomu and i hate those sorts of compatisons but his confidence is quietly building and he has more potential of all tjose selected if his youth form is converted to the test arena.

With respect to playing Wales I think two big centres doesnt always work. The ABs would work on stretching them both in midfield, keeping them guessing and putting the quicker guys in and around them. Size is generally overated unless its purely one on one so Roberts and co wouldnt have it all their own way i wouldnt think. ABs would have to do their homework on them but theyll come up with a way of reducing their impact.

Pity theyre not coming here actually...

We'll just have to wait until New Zealand come to Cardiff then (September).

Yes by then we'll know where things are at. Its only 4 months but so much is before then...

Super15 form rarely at least In NZ transfers to International form example Wellington players last year.The Crusaders bashers have missed several points,this year the S15.Has been Refereed almost back to the 2009 standard,flashing counter attacking.Isn`t winning matches ill discipline especially in the breakdown area has decided matches.Neither Taylor or Bleyendahl has the experience to run the Carter playbook.Last year Matt Berquist was at the helm a very experienced 10 .Todd Blackadder has realised defence and goal kicking is winning matches this year.There have been few blow outs,and starting experienced players from the bench cost the Crusaders last saturday getting cocky.In the Bulls match away,where you would expect a loss there was a margin of less than 7 points.
Morne Steyn kicked a conversion,8 penalties and a drop,taylor I think 6 penalties.The FIRST player you pick as it has always been is your Goal kicker I know people like to think flashy stuff wins matches.BUT Goal kickers have won far more in my last time tries are at a record low and penalties a record high it has been that way since 2002.David Campese was saying today many of the players would`nt have cut it in his era[except for fitness.]Size being prized over the basic skills and individualism prized over playing as a team.

No Alan, sometimes it gets better. Nonu and Jane were non entities at sxv then starred in the first test they played. Cruden's NZ best 10/ kicker combination by a street at the moment and is the only to have test/ AB experience. Back up kicker is the issue yes.

Thats why Weepu annoyoingly keeps coming into frame. Often the ABs find they need him almost more than he needs them.

NZ wins its tests by kicks probably less than the top 6-8 countries yet it has a better record so thats here nor there.

Savea and A Smith are worth pumping for against Ireland because of the experience around them, even though theyre raw at the level. Some raise the bar easily, some don't. Its an individual thing. Youre more likely to perform with time in the AB environment than most others. Thats what Foxy was harping on about last night- get your Reads, McCaws, Mealamus etc around these guys and bring them in.

Saders have been poor on attack and have 'survived' with goal kicks. Part of that will be the Taylor Carter combination which everyone raved about.

Dan the man has been iffy this season, in fact my pick of AB flyhalf although impossible as long as DC is fit will be Cruden .If theres anyone that embodies NZ game plans with aussie audacity its him .Some of his breaks for the chiefs and subsequent offloads are ridiculous

Think the Saders backs haven't had as much space as opposition defences don't rate the 12s they have now that SBW is gone. I mean of course they rate Carter but not in the blockbusting midfield role SBW/Nonu plays.

Cruden will actually benefit from this as he has done with the Chiefs. SBW will draw more defensive attention and open up holes inside and out.

The black jersey has a big effect. Some players do so well in it and so badly without it that you wonder when they actually played well enough in their non-black jersey to get noticed by Henry-you can't remember!

Alan I was brought up to pick the tighthead prop first!

Dagg will carve up the Irish. Kearney is playing well and reminds me of Chris Latham but I can see him having to do a lot of work without the ball.

Roberts has been nullified extremely well by the All Blacks as has pretty much everyone else. He's great at getting go forward but NZ's scrambling defence has been able to cope whenever Wales get in behind. They still lack the attacking nous and ruthlessness NZ has, and is used to playing against so they won't be too worried if they stick to their systems and maintain their discipline. North vs Savea looks fun though...

What do you think of that line Disney?

Smith/ Ellis half each
Cruden
SBW
Smith
Jane
Savea
Dagg

Kickers a worry but full of running...Cruden offers more on attack than DC anyway and already has a combi with SBW. Saveas worth the risk against Ireland. Wouldnt do it against SA or Oz as easily though...

disneychilly wrote:
North vs Savea looks fun though...

Doesnt it!

Monstertruck graveyard!

North usually does well against big, physical wingers. He's had Ioane in his pocket everytime they have played against each other. To stand a chance against the All Blacks we definitely need more variety to our game.

No doubting Norths talents and hes now more experienced than Savea but its often more about whats going on inside them, ball and space quality etc.

It would still be a leap of faith for Hansen to put Savea in as 2 weeks ago no one had him first on the list. His recent try just said to us all that theres perhaps more to him than previously and that hes turned a corner.

I think its too early for Savea and that he should come off the bench but being a specialist that's probaly too hard.

So for the first test
Ellis
Cruden
SBW
Smith
Jane
Dagg
Savea (or Nonu one drops out totally)

Smith
Ellison/Carter
Smith

Just got to have two goal kickers in the side as if Cruden leaves the first minute we'll look like right plonkers....aaarghh...theres that Weepu name crawling back in again... whats McCaws goal kicking like?

Hasn't Dagg kicked before?

BTW taylor with regards to the New Zealand sevens team, what level do the players (Forbes for example) play at at the 15 a side game when not on the circuit?

Forbes has played most of his club rugby (15s) at Waitemata, A West Auckland club,he has also played ITM cup for Auckland and Counties Manakau (South Auckland), his problem is that he now goes into his off season as the 1st tournament for the next is in mid October,but hopefully he will have some games of 15s, its interesting watching how these guys have to adopt to playing for more than 20 minutes, they have to get the running shoes out and just spend time doing stamina work runnung the roads.

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Forbes has played most of his club rugby (15s) at Waitemata, A West Auckland club,he has also played ITM cup for Auckland and Counties Manakau (South Auckland), his problem is that he now goes into his off season as the 1st tournament for the next is in mid October,but hopefully he will have some games of 15s, its interesting watching how these guys have to adopt to playing for more than 20 minutes, they have to get the running shoes out and just spend time doing stamina work runnung the roads.

I saw an article (on Stuff.co.nz I think) saying Forbes had considered flagging 15s to make sure he was still fit enough to play at Rio 2016 (he'll be in his mod-30s then) but he is going to play for Counties Manakau in INL Cup this year.

Morg, most of the NZ 7s players play INL Cup level. Most generally make the step up to Super XV after a year or 2 on the circuit.

Apart from specialist 7s player though right? (such as Forbes). He has had over 100 games for NZ. What position does he play when playing Provincial, he looks quite a big guy.

That's what lets Wales down, not having enough specialist 7s players. Majority of ours are from Premiership clubs with a few having made the step-up to Regional (some only for a handful of games though like Pryide, Robinson, Habberfield) and some U20 guys. Good players though. I think the Sevens is good to use as a platform for international rugby but would like to see us contract more specialist players and not get so disorganised. Take our tournament at Twickenham for example.

Morgannwg wrote:Apart from specialist 7s player though right? (such as Forbes). He has had over 100 games for NZ. What position does he play when playing Provincial, he looks quite a big guy.

That's what lets Wales down, not having enough specialist 7s players. Majority of ours are from Premiership clubs with a few having made the step-up to Regional (some only for a handful of games though like Pryide, Robinson, Habberfield) and some U20 guys. Good players though. I think the Sevens is good to use as a platform for international rugby but would like to see us contract more specialist players and not get so disorganised. Take our tournament at Twickenham for example.

Yep. Gordon Tietjens has done a good job over the years retaining the likes of Eric Rush, Tomasi Cama and Forbes (usually as forwards or playmakers as they got older), with them playing INL Cup in the 7s circuit off-season. This year's current squad had 4 players (including Forbes and Cama) who've been in the squad over 5 years, while most of the rest were in their 1st or 2nd season

Luke Whitelock? Where does he play?

flankertye wrote:Luke Whitelock? Where does he play?

Crusaders player who can play anywhere across the backrow, 6, 7 or 8.

Morgannwg wrote:Apart from specialist 7s player though right? (such as Forbes). He has had over 100 games for NZ. What position does he play when playing Provincial, he looks quite a big guy.

That's what lets Wales down, not having enough specialist 7s players. Majority of ours are from Premiership clubs with a few having made the step-up to Regional (some only for a handful of games though like Pryide, Robinson, Habberfield) and some U20 guys. Good players though. I think the Sevens is good to use as a platform for international rugby but would like to see us contract more specialist players and not get so disorganised. Take our tournament at Twickenham for example.

In club and ITM he plays No 8,He's taller but not as powerful as his uncle.

Oh, I was sure he would be a centre. His traps look somewhat, 'un-natural'. Might just be the angle in which the pic was taken though.

Jane and Kahui are out injured with a shoulder and ankle complaint. So Guilford has a reprieve and it remains to be seen whether Gear gets called up as well as we are thin on experienced wingers. Taylor has been mentioned as well and you could even see Dagg go out to the wing, which is not something personally I´d like to see.

Also Mealamu is out so I'd like to see Hika Elliot rather than Corey Flynn get the nod but Hansen has left it out in the open even saying the Hurricanes Coles has a chance, no doubt to increase the competition for places.

Lastly, I read Nonu is being chased by the Crusaders intimating that third time lucky will be the best for him. I can't imagine he'll be keen to renew the Blues partnership and a partnership of Nonu and Fruean would make compelling viewing I have to say.