Wales training squad cuts

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/welsh/14131218.stm

"Jonathan Thomas, Andy Powell and Richie Rees have been omitted from Wales' World Cup training preparations, BBC Sport Wales understands.

The three will not be making the trip to Poland on Saturday with the rest of coach Warren Gatland's squad for the last of two 10-day training camps.

Ken Owens, Lou Reed and Andrew Bishop will also be left behind.

But Stephen Jones, who missed the first training camp for the birth of his first child, will be travelling.

Gatland selected an initial 45-man training squad, but the Wales coach has trimmed the numbers down to 35 as he takes the players for a second week of intense training in Spala."


I'm shocked that Rees, Powell and JT have all been cut, but i think on form they're the right choices. I would assume this means that Toby and Devle are set to go, which can only been good news. I'd also assume this means Mike Phillips is a certainty now aswell. I dont think that anyone was expecting Reed or Owens to make the squad. I personally would have prefered to see Owens going over Bennet, but the chances of that were always low. Bishops chances were always low with the form of JD2 and Scott Williams.

Thoughts?

No surprises there, these cuts were predictable. Bennett?? Let's face it, we've all known for years that he is WG's love child. No other explanation.

Slightly surprised at Richie Rees being left out - I don't believe that Phillips was more in-form than him. Looks like Lloyd Williams will get a chance though which I'm glad about.

As for the rest - Powell doesn't deserve to be anywhere near the squad and JT isn't better than any of our other back/second rows.

Though Lou Reed might have been in with a shout but I guess this means Ryan Jones is likely to cover second row as well as back row. Would have preferred Owens to stay in ahead of Bennett but I'm sure his time will come and Bishop was always going to struggle to get in ahead of the other guys at centre.

Reveals a fair bit about the likely final squad - no big shocks really though.

Not shocked with Powell and JT as we have far better option than them now.

Owens and Reed, well OWens has been out injured but that means Bennett is still there. Reed again we have better options than him.

Bit surprised at Rees, does that mean he is only going to take to No9s with him?

Bishop - I would be gutted if I was him as he has never let Wales down when played and is very solid, looks like he is being the one to lose out to Henson.

I think a few people on 606v2 will be sad to see Rees out, he was the favourite scrum half selected.

I though am not a fan.

Bennett ahead of Owens is a shame but not a shock, possible that Owens is not fit yet after such a period out injured. But Lloyd Burns is still there.

I am most surprised that Jon Thomas and Powell are out, not unhappy about it but I am surprised.

Maybe Gatland does read 606?

bedfordwelsh wrote:
Bit surprised at Rees, does that mean he is only going to take to No9s with him?

Bishop - I would be gutted if I was him as he has never let Wales down when played and is very solid, looks like he is being the one to lose out to Henson.

Lloyd Williams is the other scrum half.

Bishop is a tough call but he doesnt offer anything different to anyone else, Henson and Williams do. Its harsh but a good call.

I don't think Richie Rees is a world beater, but he definateky suits our style of play and has always shown up well in a welsh jersey. If knoyle comes on for Phillips isn't that a like for like change? You always felt Rees could come on in the last 20 and make an impact.
Glad to see bishop isn't going. Don't rate him and as for Powell and johnathon anonymous. They shouldn't have been in the first training squad.
I've run out of things to say about bennett. We all feel the same. Ken Owens has had an injury ravaged season and I'm sure will be back in the fold again soon.

From Wales online:

Scarlets rookie Scott Williams has been backed to win a Wales World Cup place to New Zealand ahead of Gavin Henson.

The Scarlets centre, who made his Wales debut against the Barbarians last month, is a dark horse for Warren Gatland’s World Cup squad.

The 20-year-old, who has only played 20 games for the Scarlets, is understood to have impressed on the recent World Cup training trip to Poland.

The Carmarthen-born back has emerged as genuine competition for Henson, who has played only a handful of games in two years, for a centre berth in the Wales squad.


But Williams, along with Ospreys flanker Justin Tipuric and Dragons hooker Lloyd Burns, are being viewed as genuine candidates for Gatland’s World Cup squad.

Wales still have a second training camp in Poland before their warm-up games against England, twice, and Argentina before the final squad is named on August 22nd.

But Mark Jones, a former Wales wing and Scarlets skills coach, has backed the Parc y Scarlets tyro to make the 30-man squad.

“I would take Scott all day,” said Jones.

“It wouldn’t be a problem for him. There no issue with his age because there is real maturity there.

“I have a lot of time for Scott and we are hoping he will be a big part of our Scarlets side.

“I hope he goes to the World Cup and he will be a better player if he does go. Whether he plays or not, the experience would be good for him.”

Williams, who made one searing break as a replacement for Henson during the defeat to the Baa Baas, is no stranger to filling big boots.

The 6ft and 15st 3lbs centre last season stepped in for the Scarlets former All Black, Regan King, who left for Clermont Auvergne in the summer.

While Jamie Roberts is a stone cold certainty to make the cut as a centre, Henson still has to stake a claim for a place.

“We played Scott ahead of Regan King in certain games for the Scarlets because he was more suitable in certain games,” said Jones.

“I spent a week shadowing the squad ahead of the Baa Baas game and I watched some sessions and I am not surprised Scott is pushing for a place.

“He has something and you don’t have to be a rocket scientist to see that. When he came on in the Baa Baas game, he just looked like somebody who was comfortable in the environment.

“He certainly has something to get a spot in the Wales team.

“There aren’t a huge amount of options there at 12. We have Jamie, who has held the shirt for seasons now, but Gavin has been away.

“Gav is back now and in the fold, but he doesn’t look he is where he was a few years ago. I am not being disrespectful there and we all hope he does find some form.”

Jones, who worked with Williams last season, is confident the Scarlets, let alone Wales, have a player with real potential on their hands.

“What you have got with Scott is a bit of inner steel,” said Jones.

“He is a quiet and unassuming lad, but he does have a real edge. He is a competitor and, when you transfer that into a competitive training environment that Gats breeds, I would expect him to flourish.

“Skill-wise, he has tremendous aggression on the gainline. He accelerates into the tackle and he doesn’t pull up short into the tackle.

“He works after the contact and doesn’t just accept the tackle.

“Scott is under-rated skill-wise and has good hands and, if he used that more, his running game will only improve.

“I don’t think we have seen the best of his distribution skills and it is something I have talked to him about.

“He is a good hitter in defence, and has some things to work on in that area, but he does have a winger’s pace.

“He is 4.9 and 4.8 over 40 metres and he has genuine pace. He has got all the raw materials.”



Read More http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2011/07/13/mark-jones-backs-young-scarlets-star-scott-williams-to-steal-gavin-henson-s-world-cup-place-91466-29042728/#ixzz1Ry91gt6Q

That would be brilliant. I would love to see Scott Williams get a go in the squad. will be a very tough introduction to international rugby but definitely a great experience for him

mm,

Didn't realise L Williams was in the squad, thought he was injured. Was he added at a later date?

L Williams was added to take the place of Peel who couldn't make the first training camp.

Only surprise in the above for me is that Rees has been cut, all the other's make sense really.

I heard burns had impressed. It would be nice to see him get in ahead of Bennett.
It does make you wonder what the welsh management have been doing all this time. If a few of these players go along with the likes of knoyle, faletau and priestland. There are gonna be a lot of players going with very little experience. I just think a few of these players could have had a chance before now.

rugbydreamer wrote:L Williams was added to take the place of Peel who couldn't make the first training camp.

Only surprise in the above for me is that Rees has been cut, all the other's make sense really.

I still dont see him as an asset to Wales or the Blues, just not up to the standard. He had a few decent games and clears the ball quicker than Phillips. But he spreads nearly all the time, rarely does anything else.

That kind of play wont keep an opposition back row honest.

We need players who can play some rugby, we need players with rugby Brains not players like Powell and Rees. Those types of players and their inclusion when better players have been injured or off form is one of the main reasons the standard of rugby has dropped for Wales.

He looked really good when he played for the BaaBaa's, Maes, and he's got a cracking pass on him, probably the best of the SH's currently in the training squad. I've seen him make a fair few sniping runs as well. I like him. And you want players with rugby brains? Then Lloyd Williams has one of them.

manofgwent wrote:I heard burns had impressed. It would be nice to see him get in ahead of Bennett.
It does make you wonder what the welsh management have been doing all this time. If a few of these players go along with the likes of knoyle, faletau and priestland. There are gonna be a lot of players going with very little experience. I just think a few of these players could have had a chance before now.

Not meaning to annoy you mate but you keep saying " I just think a few of these players could have had a chance before now", and it wont change anything.

As you well know, there are a variety of reasons why the younger players weren't tried two years ago, mainly because they hadn't played enough decent rugby to put themselves in to contention. They had better players standing in their way, that are now rightfully being discarded as the younger players show their class.

In the dozen or so posts here there have been 5 references made to the form the players are in. This is something I see a lot on the RWC threads. To me its a very fluid and ambigious concept that I wouldn't hold a great deal of store by for a tournament like this.

Looks like L.Williams will take Rees's Blues and Wales shirt next season. Would love to see him get gametime in the warm ups.

Maesteg. Maybe not 2 years ago, but faletau was sat on the bench v Fiji in November and didn't come on. In that game we picked gough and denial jones in the 2nd row!! Crazy! Both past it and not even in the WC squad. The thing i's fans have been screaming to invest in these players. It'll be too little too late. Constantly players were being picked when in absolutely no form. Wales played a depleted SA team last summer and Wales picked their so called strongest 15. Why? We didn't have a look at any new faces in a friendly game and still lost. What a wasted opportunity.
The problem i's warren gatland treats every game as a world cup final and hasn't looked at the bigger picture and that he should be building a squad for a world cup, not just sticking with his grand slammers and trying to improve on his dire record over the last 2 years.
I'm delighted that finally these talented youngsters are now beginning to make an impression, but warren has left it way too late. 2 months away from a WC.

manofgwent wrote:Maesteg. Maybe not 2 years ago, but faletau was sat on the bench v Fiji in November and didn't come on. In that game we picked gough and denial jones in the 2nd row!! Crazy! Both past it and not even in the WC squad. The thing i's fans have been screaming to invest in these players. It'll be too little too late. Constantly players were being picked when in absolutely no form. Wales played a depleted SA team last summer and Wales picked their so called strongest 15. Why? We didn't have a look at any new faces in a friendly game and still lost. What a wasted opportunity.
The problem i's warren gatland treats every game as a world cup final and hasn't looked at the bigger picture and that he should be building a squad for a world cup, not just sticking with his grand slammers and trying to improve on his dire record over the last 2 years.
I'm delighted that finally these talented youngsters are now beginning to make an impression, but warren has left it way too late. 2 months away from a WC.

I am sorry but I disagree on two points, one, the former i mentioned that Gatland has rightly selected players likely to do the best job. But secondly I disagree with you that he hasn't bloodied enough young talent, I think he has done a much better job of introducing players to the Welsh set up, and the Welsh team than anyone I can remember. Just think about how many new caps we have had under Gatland's tenure.

The other thing that our mate Red Stag alludes to, is that there is little to do with form when you haven't been playing competitive rugby at any level other than training camp matches for two months. We have no problem suggesting that Gethin Jenkins will be a great asset when we all know he hasn't played a single game in seven months. THats less rugby than Henson, who creates a big stir.

Point being that form shown now in this camp and the last and time together on the pitch now means far more than a cap against fiji last Autumn. The team that emerges this summer to play the warm ups and the World Cup will be a different side. They will have had a two month training period.

Bar Dwayne Peel who is being held captive in a dungeon buy the PRL.

DOH,

I shouldn't post so early in the morning beofre my brain has fully woken uo as I had forgotten about Peel as well.

bedfordwelsh wrote:DOH,

I shouldn't post so early in the morning beofre my brain has fully woken uo as I had forgotten about Peel as well.

Lavazza has been my morning staple since i was based in Italy for work...

Maestrg.
My point is that the team should pretty much be in place.
What did eddie butler say in January? Please please mr garland, don't tinker with the team in the warm up games. Well gatland will have to tinker, because a lot of these players have no international experience apart from a Baa bass game.
Gatland hasn't used his time well. Why do we just churn out the same tram in the autumn internationals. In 8 games in 2 years we only beat Samoa (just) and Argentina. Gatland has capped a lot of players, but they gabby had much of a chance. When biggar was 2nd choice, he only played against the lesser opposition.
As I said a 2nd row of gough and deiniol jones, with johnathon anonymous at 8 just 8 months ago says it all to me.
These camps may be a good thing, but there i's nothing like the real thing of playing at the highest level.

i am disapointed for rees, but if he has been cut it must be because other 9s are in better shape than him. but we still need quick ball and i cant see phillips delivering on that fundamental of scrumhalf play.

not surprised that bennett is still in he must be in good shape, but can he play?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!? i hope so.

mog,

I agree he will have to tinker in the two England games BUT IMO, even with the risk of injury he should play what he sees is his full team against the Pumas that way at least they will have had a run out.

dog,

I am not surprised in the slightest so see Bennett there and won't be surprised to see him on the plane or on the bench against the Boks.

Don't agree with it but its just one of them inevitabilities.

Bennett can play. He just can't throw. My guess i's he's good at sucking too!!!

manofgwent wrote:Maestrg.
My point is that the team should pretty much be in place.
What did eddie butler say in January? Please please mr garland, don't tinker with the team in the warm up games. Well gatland will have to tinker, because a lot of these players have no international experience apart from a Baa bass game.
Gatland hasn't used his time well. Why do we just churn out the same tram in the autumn internationals. In 8 games in 2 years we only beat Samoa (just) and Argentina. Gatland has capped a lot of players, but they gabby had much of a chance. When biggar was 2nd choice, he only played against the lesser opposition.
As I said a 2nd row of gough and deiniol jones, with johnathon anonymous at 8 just 8 months ago says it all to me.
These camps may be a good thing, but there i's nothing like the real thing of playing at the highest level.

I completely agree with you, you are right, though it may not be all bad. I guess that he felt he had to do it, that there was such an emergence of other players coming into the frey that he needed to change.

I think he brought players in when they were ready, Knoyle was great last year, he went on the summer tour, Brad Davies the year before played well at the Blues and has now cemented his squad place, same with Warburton, Lydiate, Craig Mitchell, Paul James, Jon Davies, Jamie Roberts, Leigh Halfpenny and I am sure a few more.

I think we have the staff, and they will be a good representation of Welsh rugby at the RWC. But there is some very valuable time being spent in Spala at the moment and more to come at the Vale after.

As you know the one I am most annoyed about is the lack of Release of Peel. We need a quality player of his experience in the squad.

Agree with Bedford. Remember when Gareth Jenkins tinkered at twickenham. Not the kind of thing that's good for morale when you get spanked just before a tournament.

manofgwent wrote:Bennett can play. He just can't throw. My guess i's he's good at sucking too!!!

he could really practice his throwing during the summer camps and become an asset?


Come on lads lets be positive...!

manofgwent wrote:Agree with Bedford. Remember when Gareth Jenkins tinkered at twickenham. Not the kind of thing that's good for morale when you get spanked just before a tournament.

That was an odd match... I didn't see it but i was shocked at the score. Have never really been able to watch it either...

Lets hope the reverse happens this time round eh...!

I'm with 99% on Bennett, however I would suggest we do what The All Blacks used to in the 70's and get a "hands" man to throw the ball in at the line out. Batty and Brian Williams used to do this to good effect and Wales should adopt something similar as Bennett is useful in the loose but has severe dyspraxia when it come to throwing in the lineout. Problem sorted Warren so read this and take note (again) - Also for what it's worth, I think the young Ospreys scrum half is better than Lloyd Williams, tenacious and stronger.

wales606 wrote:Looks like L.Williams will take Rees's Blues and Wales shirt next season. Would love to see him get gametime in the warm ups.

Hope this happens. Its not that i dont like Rees, but i just dont think hes world class and hes not the youngest player in the world. We wasted enough time at the Blues with our other journeyman SH G.Cooper. Be good to see us using a young SH like the other three regions have done.

I'm glad to see Powell out of the team because hes only really had one good game for us (SA in 08 i think) but everyone clocked his game really quickly. I've got a lot of time for JT when we've used him a 6, never a fan of him at 8. Hes been our best lineout option at times, but we've got some very tallented young players there and we need to bring them on.

I've got a lot of time for Bish too because he dosnt do much if anything wrong. In some ways hes a bit like Tindle, very dependable but dosnt set the world on fire. Again i think the younger players are better equipped to help Wales reach the Semi's.

maestegmafia wrote:

manofgwent wrote:Agree with Bedford. Remember when Gareth Jenkins tinkered at twickenham. Not the kind of thing that's good for morale when you get spanked just before a tournament.

That was an odd match... I didn't see it but i was shocked at the score. Have never really been able to watch it either...

Lets hope the reverse happens this time round eh...!

I feared the worst when Coco picked Will James in the 2nd row and AWJ at No6. I was unfortunately there and watched the whole sorry affair affair unfold before my eyes.

Then again still have a good weekend with loads of beer.

Best thing about Gareth Jenkins when the BBC made a documentary about his time in charge of the national team. It was more a rugby mike Bassett type film. It summed it up for me when they interviews him on the beach at the end and in the background his two dogs were going at it, hell for leather!! It was what sky+ was made for! Genius!

Mike Bassett my Arxx - After the Twickenham debacle where we leaked 60 plus points he said in the post match interview, "we made more midfield line breaks than the opposition" - I think Mike Bassett would have pulled out of that one

Come on Walesssssssssssssssssssssssssssss1

More details inside.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/14131218.stm

Hi looseheaded, this has already been covered in another topic, so I'm going to merge it

So does this mean they won't be picked for the world cup???

I'd take Thomas as he can cover several positions.

The 30 i'd like to see after the cuts are

Hookers - Rees, Hibbard, Burns
Props - Jenkins, James, Jones, Mitchell, Andrews
2nd rows - AW Jones, Davies, Charteris
Back Row - Faletau, Lydiate, Jones, Delve, Warburton, Williams

Scrum Halves - Phillips, Peel, Knoyle
Fly Halves - Jones, Hook, Priestland
Centres - Roberts, Davies, Williams
Wings - Williams, Halfpenny, North
Full backs - Byrne

Stoddard, Brew and Turnbull would be very unlucky but I feel we will need an extra backrower rather than a winger judging by how physical our group will be.
Jones can cover back row and 2nd row, Priestland or Halfpenny to cover at full back.

Best thing about Gareth Jenkins when the BBC made a documentary about his time in charge of the national team. It was more a rugby mike Bassett type film. It summed it up for me when they interviews him on the beach at the end and in the background his two dogs were going at it, hell for leather!! It was what sky+ was made for! Genius!

Classic TV moment that was...

What also amused me was he had the same hair style as his dogs!

chris,

I think he will only take 4 props givng us 16 forwards in total and add Stoddard to the backs giving us 14 backs.

RD- No worries, I checked to see if it had been done, turns out I missed it. Cheers mate.

chris_501 wrote:Back Row - Faletau, Lydiate, Jones, Delve, Warburton, Williams
. . . Turnbull would be very unlucky but I feel we will need an extra backrower rather than a winger judging by how physical our group will be.

I'd rather see Turnbull go. Nugget is a national hero and a modern day Welsh rugby icon but i just dont think he will be able to keep up with the physicality of the games we're going to face in the pool games.

chris_501 wrote:The 30 i'd like to see after the cuts are

Hookers - Rees, Hibbard, Burns
Props - Jenkins, James, Jones, Mitchell, Andrews
2nd rows - AW Jones, Davies, Charteris
Back Row - Faletau, Lydiate, Jones, Delve, Warburton, Williams

Scrum Halves - Phillips, Peel, Knoyle
Fly Halves - Jones, Hook, Priestland
Centres - Roberts, Davies, Williams
Wings - Williams, Halfpenny, North
Full backs - Byrne

Ditch Scott Andrews and Martyn Williams in the pack, and take Turnbull and Stoddart and I would agree with that squad.

SS,

Yeah that would be pretty much spot on though I have a sneaky feeling a certain centre will be in there somewhere and god help us Bennett will be there to.

I just think looking at our squad, a 17/13 mix would be better. With the recent injury histories of Jenkins and Adam Jones I wouldn't be surprised if either of those two got injured in our pool matches. What happens if we get to a point where we cant field two props before a match, are replacements called up or does the game just go ahead under un contested scrums?

Wow - everytime ive watched Rees come on to replace Phillips he has significantly sped up the game and had an impact.

Im very suprised with this unless he is really struggling with fitness or injuries.

Powell bizarrely comes as a surprise simply due to him being a Gatland fave like Henson. Thought he might have been used at some point against the physical teams of Fiji and Samoa. To be honest he was not a bad impact player to come off the bench however Gatland kept starting him from the get go and it never worked.

Expect any of these boys dropped will be fuming Henson hasnt joined them

ps - glad Gatland is finally coming to his senses and whacking young talent into the team and getting rid of deadwood however I still feel it is a year to late!

[quote="ScarletSpiderman"][quote="chris_501"]The 30 i'd like to see after the cuts are

Hookers - Rees, Hibbard, Burns
Props - Jenkins, James, Jones, Mitchell, Andrews
2nd rows - AW Jones, Davies, Charteris
Back Row - Faletau, Lydiate, Jones, Delve, Warburton, Williams

Scrum Halves - Phillips, Peel, Knoyle
Fly Halves - Jones, Hook, Priestland
Centres - Roberts, Davies, Williams
Wings - Williams, Halfpenny, North
Full backs - Byrne

Ditch Scott Andrews and Martyn Williams in the pack, and take Turnbull and Stoddart and I would agree with that squad.

Think I am with you 100% there

That clutch of backs are absolutely fightening with their pace but also relatively inexperienced and perhaps not so defensively good as the 2008 Henson "defence capt", however you have just got to start the following against England in at least one game

9 Knoyle
10 Priestland

12 Williams
13 Davies

11 Williams
14 1/2p or North

15 Stoddart

OMG .................Now that is frightenly fast with power (with the exception of Shane and 1/2p they are all chunky guys) and pace throughtout

Fly half. Just watch gatland and howley not get the best from our backs.

Kultschar. Agree with everything you say about Rees and being a year too late.

Flyhalf - move Priestland to fullback, Stoddart to the wing (with North on the other) and Jones at fly half and that will be a world beating back line.