Ireland Tour of New Zealand 2022

First topic message reminder :

In addition to three tests, Ireland are playing 2 non-test matches against NZ Māori.  Farrell plans to take an expanded squad as a result that will allow him see a few other non-regulars perform. The newer ones may only be required for the 2 NZ Māori matches

Assuming current injuries allow some players to travel, the touring squad will likely include most of the 6N picks plus some more - up to say 42 players.  
Ireland will likely win two of the matches and things will likely go to the third test to decide matters.

Forwards 22
7 Props - Furlong, Porter, Bealham, O’Toole, Loughman?
3 Hookers - Sheehan, Herring, Heffernan?
6 Locks - Ryan, Henderson, Beirne, Baird, Treadwell, J McCarthy?
6 B/rows - VdF, Conan, Coombes, Doris, O’Mahony, Timoney? Prendergast?
Backs 20
4 SH Gibson-Park, Murray, Casey
4 10s Sexton, Carbery, H Byrne?
5 Centres Aki, Henshaw, Ringrose, Hume? Frawley?
7 Back-threes - Keenan, Lowe, Hansen, Lowry? J O’Brien?

Commisserations Ireland.

I wouldn't be too discouraged after that loss, yes it hurts, but three tries held up, tells a different story.

Two things they need to improve is their scrum and their passing, too many no look passes and 50/50 passes.

All Blacks are lethal on turn over ball, and Ireland gave them plenty

Cudos to NZ for their defence close to the line, it was incredible

That really doesnt feel like a 23 point loss for Ireland. Kelleher and Henderson really missed. Furlong, Ryan and in particular Beirne are not where they were in the past. Beirne though probably should not have been picked with recent injury.

Yeah not overly disapointed with the performance, too many turnover opportunities for the ABs as Old Man says.
Probably why Schmidts Ireland were so obsessed with holding posession.

Haven't seen the game but wondering how Sexton acquired his head knock. Was it how he used to get it when playing for Racing 92?
When his club pack struggled he would try and take tackle big forwards, high and get a knock. Alternatively he would stick his head in a ruck and get a knock.
Was it something similar today or was he just unlucky?

sensisball wrote:Haven't seen the game but wondering how Sexton acquired his head knock. Was it how he used to get it when playing for Racing 92?
When his club pack struggled he would try and take tackle  big forwards, high and get a knock. Alternatively he would stick his head in a ruck and get a knock.
Was it something similar today or was he just unlucky?

He got a knee to the head as he slipped into a Sam Cane tackle. Freak accident. He will be fine for the next game. Carbery played very well though.

Do the new rules mean Sexton is out next week too?

Anyone with a history of concussion or removed with symptoms of concussion will sit out for 12 days.

Well if thats the case so be it, Carbery played well. Enjoyed the match, no complaints really.

Tbh I wanted Carberry to start at least 1 game on this tour but not due to Sexton being injured. Harry Byrne or Lowry to the bench then.

It seems Scott Barrett might get cited for This

This

Saw that as well old man. POM spoke to Dickson but got nowhere. Wasn't he sent off against Australia in the last couple of years too?

He has had discipline issues, but my memory is like swiz cheese these days

I see that Ed Bryne and Michael Bent have been called up - what a joke!

So being a player who at best is second choice in his position is good enough to be picked in front of players from other provinces but being an ex Leinster player, who has retired, is also good enough

I failed to see how Ulster did not have a single member of their starting XV in the 23 when they, marginally, out performed Munster last year and were well ahead of Connacht.
Of Irish born players they have the best backline of all four provinces.

At least the southern press cant blame this on the token Ulster man, as they have done in the past.
No wait Treadwell played 15 mins and O'Toole 13 minutes - probably their fault.

I feel no affinity to the current Irish set up

Maine man wrote:Saw that as well old man. POM spoke to Dickson but got nowhere. Wasn't he sent off against Australia in the last couple of years too?

Yeah it was annoying at the time, think Barrett was penalised too but just a penalty. He looked very sheepish after he did it.

McCloskey has been called up. Hume out of tour I believe.

Must be a tackle bag short

One thing about the All Blacks they can turn sh!t into gold in a milli-second.

On the Carberry no try. Was that really not a high tackle? I guess it's hard to define between neck and top of the shoulder. I just think if contact had been made to that same area but by a forearm or shoulder etc it would have been called high.

All irrelevant anyway in what was a pretty disappointing performance.

I don't thinkthe tackle was high, but I was very surprised the try wasn't given.

Not a huge fan of the goal line drop outs. What is the logic behind them and what was wrong with a 5 meter scrum?

Disappointed with the loss but happy with the approach. Just need to be more clinical and they will push the AB's. Thought POM and JvdF were outstanding yesterday. JGP did not have his best game but he will improve for the next match, he is still first choice for me.

Loosing Sexton is a blow but Carberry played well for me.

Collapse2005 wrote:Not a huge fan of the goal line drop outs. What is the logic behind them and what was wrong with a 5 meter scrum?

Let me know if I am mincing words here.  The defacto purpose of goal line drop is to stop a perfectly good attacking passage of play.  To punish a team for getting over the line, but fail to ground, with a goal line drop instead of an attacking scrum makes no sense to me.  All for the desire to see more ball in open play time.  Instead teams become more tentative around the goal line to make sure the ball is properly grounded.  So, in essence more pick-and-goes on the line and less open play.

I think Ireland were a bit closer than it seemed. The ABs efficiently converted the few chances they had in the first half and set the tone for the rest of the game. Locking down those opportunities and we could have had a different game.

doctor_grey wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Not a huge fan of the goal line drop outs. What is the logic behind them and what was wrong with a 5 meter scrum?

Let me know if I am mincing words here.  The defacto purpose of goal line drop is to stop a perfectly good attacking passage of play.  To punish a team for getting over the line, but fail to ground, with a goal line drop instead of an attacking scrum makes no sense to me.  All for the desire to see more ball in open play time.  Instead teams become more tentative around the goal line to make sure the ball is properly grounded.  So, in essence more pick-and-goes on the line and less open play.

It's only a matter of time before teams develop techniques on taking advantage of it like holding up the attacker and dragging him across the line.

eirebilly wrote:Disappointed with the loss but happy with the approach. Just need to be more clinical and they will push the AB's. Thought POM and JvdF were outstanding yesterday. JGP did not have his best game but he will improve for the next match, he is still first choice for me.

Loosing Sexton is a blow but Carberry played well for me.

Yes, you have to cut the apron strings with Sexton at some point before he has to wheel his iron lung onto the pitch.

Carberry played very well and thoroughly deserves his chance to start this week. How can you say you want to bring players up to the 30 cap threshold everyone would like for the World Cup and not actually play them against quality opposition?

doctor_grey wrote:I think Ireland were a bit closer than it seemed.  The ABs efficiently converted the few chances they had in the first half and set the tone for the rest of the game.  Locking down those opportunities and we could have had a different game.  

Yeah agree, you reverse a bit of the rub of the green for both sides it would have been much closer.

Collapse2005 wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:I think Ireland were a bit closer than it seemed.  The ABs efficiently converted the few chances they had in the first half and set the tone for the rest of the game.  Locking down those opportunities and we could have had a different game.  

Yeah agree, you reverse a bit of the rub of the green for both sides it would have been much closer.

New Zealand often do this. The reputation they have of being this remorseless attacking monster is false. They defend and kick really well, then really turn it on for short periods of the game where they score a lot of points very quickly. I have memories of many games where, as England, we would win a half and think, falsely, that we were not so far behind.

lostinwales wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:I think Ireland were a bit closer than it seemed.  The ABs efficiently converted the few chances they had in the first half and set the tone for the rest of the game.  Locking down those opportunities and we could have had a different game.  

Yeah agree, you reverse a bit of the rub of the green for both sides it would have been much closer.

New Zealand often do this. The reputation they have of being this remorseless attacking monster is false. They defend and kick really well, then really turn it on for short periods of the game where they score a lot of points very quickly. I have memories of many games where, as England, we would win a half and think, falsely, that we were not so far behind.

Agree completely. They have great ball skills and can counter attack in a heartbeat. But when they get up on people, that AB mystique must start to play in the minds of their opponents. Beating the ABs is all about possession (keeping the ball possession, not satanic possession, just saying). Possession and defence. Simple (except it ain't).....

But to keep that possession, the power of Christ compels you ! , sorry wrong one, you need to have forwards that can dominate contact. Against the likes of Scotland, Ireland can do that all day. Against France, South Africa, New Zealand, La Rochelle and the Bulls ( okay last two against 4/5 of Ireland), the men in green ( or blue) find it hard to build their multi, multi wrap around phase play and kind of lose the plot as to what to do instead.
The front 5 don't get front foot and a mobile but relatively light back row find themselves making tackles and going backwards more often than usual.
Sexton gets annoyed at not being able to do his loop plays and then usually manages to get injured and goes off looking very, very grumpy indeed.

sensisball wrote:But to keep that possession, the power of Christ compels you ! , sorry wrong one, you need to have forwards that can dominate contact. Against the likes of Scotland, Ireland can do that all day. Against France, South Africa, New Zealand, La Rochelle and the Bulls ( okay last two against 4/5 of Ireland), the men in green find it hard to build their multi, multi wrap around phase play and kind of lose the plot as to what to do instead.
Sexton gets annoyed at not being able to do his loop plays and then usually manages to get injured and goes off looking very, very grumpy indeed.

Spot on it.
It is a game plan that blows away weaker teams but against the best it comes up short

lostinwales wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:I think Ireland were a bit closer than it seemed.  The ABs efficiently converted the few chances they had in the first half and set the tone for the rest of the game.  Locking down those opportunities and we could have had a different game.  

Yeah agree, you reverse a bit of the rub of the green for both sides it would have been much closer.

New Zealand often do this. The reputation they have of being this remorseless attacking monster is false. They defend and kick really well, then really turn it on for short periods of the game where they score a lot of points very quickly. I have memories of many games where, as England, we would win a half and think, falsely, that we were not so far behind.

I know they won fair and square because they were extremely efficient and took all their chances. Im pretty positive about it though because Ireland were still very competitive and got some things right. I am still reasonably hopeful there are still two more opportunities for a win.

geoff999rugby wrote:

sensisball wrote:But to keep that possession, the power of Christ compels you ! , sorry wrong one, you need to have forwards that can dominate contact. Against the likes of Scotland, Ireland can do that all day. Against France, South Africa, New Zealand, La Rochelle and the Bulls ( okay last two against 4/5 of Ireland), the men in green find it hard to build their multi, multi wrap around phase play and kind of lose the plot as to what to do instead.
Sexton gets annoyed at not being able to do his loop plays and then usually manages to get injured and goes off looking very, very grumpy indeed.

Spot on it.
It is a game plan that blows away weaker teams but against the best it comes up short

Dont think NZ out muscled Ireland really. For example one reason Ireland struggled to build lots of phases was because they had slow ball was because NZ were getting away with lying on the wrong side of the ruck all match long not really because they dominated the breakdown nor the contact zone. They eventually got a yellow for it in the final quarter but the game was already well over.

sensisball wrote:But to keep that possession, the power of Christ compels you ! , sorry wrong one, you need to have forwards that can dominate contact. Against the likes of Scotland, Ireland can do that all day. Against France, South Africa, New Zealand, La Rochelle and the Bulls ( okay last two against 4/5 of Ireland), the men in green ( or blue) find it hard to build their multi, multi wrap around phase play and kind of lose the plot as to what to do instead.
The front 5 don't get front foot and a mobile but relatively light back row find themselves making tackles and going backwards more often than usual.
Sexton gets annoyed at not being able to do his loop plays and then usually manages to get injured and goes off looking very, very grumpy indeed.

Blimey, that's it! We need an exorcist. No. Not one of those Hollywood types, but a real blood-drinking, chicken-sacrificing, wrath of God exorcist. This could be cool: The ABs do the Haka, and we roll out the exorcist. Then the lights go dark and in the background a deep voice laughing.....

Classic NZ really, a brief 20 min spell takes the game away from the opposition when you think it's going to be tight. They are then masters of stopping opponents from getting back into the game - see penalties happily given far out from their posts and plenty of dodgy rucks close to their lines.

Seems like it's been a few seasons now but they still throw themselves into and past rucks, well off their feet hoping to grab an opposition player who's getting to the ruck. Absolutely mental that it isn't policed more thoroughly.

They'll keep doing it until they get stopped. Interesting that there's usually a lot of high/illegal shots on Ireland let go in this fixture, NZ have a knack for it.

2011 world cup final McCaw got away with kneeing Morgan Parra twice in the head and received no sanctions at all. The AB's are the masters of avoiding cards.

So anyway apparently Sexton will be selected at 10 on Saturday. He passed his post match HIAs.

I think we are going to win on Saturday.

So much for player safety. The man has taken almost as many head knocks as Rocky.

sensisball wrote:So much for player safety. The man has taken almost as many head knocks as Rocky.

I’d say he has taken as many head knocks as most rugby players.

Collapse2005 wrote:

sensisball wrote:So much for player safety. The man has taken almost as many head knocks as Rocky.

I’d say he has taken as many head knocks as most rugby players.

That's a relief. I must have misremembered the several concussions he suffered when playing for Racing 92. I had a memory that he was forced by the club doctor to take 3 months off in 2014 to recover. Glad for Sexton's sake it's simply false memory syndrome on my part and not what actually happened. Also glad that the two concussions he took against Wales and La Rochelle last season were minor as well. He hasn't had any this season I think, or has he? Anyway I'm sure he'll be fine.

I still would start Carberry or Byrne. Winning or losing with Sexton learns Ireland sweet FA.

Where did Ebops story go? Nice story.

Collapse2005 wrote:

sensisball wrote:So much for player safety. The man has taken almost as many head knocks as Rocky.

I’d say he has taken as many head knocks as most rugby players.

Dont agree he has taken far more than most players
Sadly in later life he may well suffer the consequences
Fingers crossed I am wrong.
Some of his recoveries have been, shall we say, miraculous

Collapse2005 wrote:Where did Ebops story go? Nice story.

Sorry deleted it, it was a nice story and fantastic effort by a touring Irish supporter to save a kiwi man’s life

Irish hero Sara Hartigan's pre-match CPR saves dying Waikato rugby's Dean Herewini. Awesome Sara!!

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/irish-hero-sara-hartigans-pre-match-cpr-saves-dying-waikato-rugbys-dean-herewini/NVAXQNTPN2HX3ILBJRS4VYATXQ/

Teams for Saturday:
New Zealand: J Barrett; Reece, Ioane, Tupaea, Fainga'anuku; B Barrett, Smith; Bower, Taylor, Tu'ungafasi, Retallick, S Barrett; Papalii, Cane (capt), Savea.

Replacements: Taukei'aho, Ross, Ta'avao, Tuipulotu, Sowakula, Fakatava, Mo'unga, Jordan.

Ireland: Keenan; Hansen, Ringrose, Henshaw, Lowe; Sexton (capt), Gibson-Park; Porter, Sheehan, Furlong, Beirne, Ryan; O'Mahony, Van der Flier, Doris.

Replacements: Herring, Healy, Bealham, Treadwell, Conan, Murray, Carbery, Aki.

Scott Barrett continues to enjoy the AB's cloak of invisibility when it comes to illegal play and starts at 5.
Surely Ryan can get the better of him come lineout time? Ryan needs a massive game to show he isn't a flash in the pan.
Not having Whitelock should be a huge loss to the blackness set piece. Papalii is a far better back rower than Barrett but not a great lineout option.
O'Mahony should give Ireland an edge at the tail.

Hoping for a closer game this week but fear for Ireland again. Hope I'm wrong!

Great start Ireland! Unlike last week, they need to keep it up.