UK General Election 2017 Thread

[Muscular-mouse]

First topic message reminder :

Ok guys what are your predictions, how will you be voting and who do you want to win.

[Ent]

In corbyn's first local election he won more seats than what Blair did and what Cameron did in their first local election results. Under Corbyn labour got more of the vote than what Blair did in 2001 when Labour won a landslide at the GE.

None of this is true.

995)
excuse me not more seats, more percentage of councils. In Blair's first local election (1995) he won 46% of councils. In Cameron's first local election (2006) he won 41% of councils and in Corbyns first local elections he won 47% of councils.

Corbin retained these councils with reduced vote share and councillors, with 31% of the popular vote.

Ed Millibands first council election saw him with 37% of the popular vote, gaining 26 councils and 857 councillors.

You can't spin these into good results for Corbyn.

[Derbymanc]

You can try Ent, you can try ;-)

[Muscular-mouse]

In corbyn's first local election he won more seats than what Blair did and what Cameron did in their first local election results. Under Corbyn labour got more of the vote than what Blair did in 2001 when Labour won a landslide at the GE.

None of this is true.

995)
excuse me not more seats, more percentage of councils. In Blair's first local election (1995) he won 46% of councils. In Cameron's first local election (2006) he won 41% of councils and in Corbyns first local elections he won 47% of councils.

Corbin retained these councils with reduced vote share and councillors, with 31% of the popular vote.

Ed Millibands first council election saw him with 37% of the popular vote, gaining 26 councils and 857 councillors.

You can't spin these into good results for Corbyn.

He still retained those councils and won more than blair did and Cameron. So it is not all so gloomy for Corbyn. But all of this is irrelevant as the election is in a few weeks so we will find out how he does then.

[Ent]

But he didn't win any councils or seats? Blair and Cameron both had increased vote share, councils and councillors in their first local election. Blair gained 1800 councillors, Cameron 300. Corbyn has lost 18.

Like you say we will see - I fear complete and utter devastation for Labour.

[Muscular-mouse]

But he didn't win any councils or seats? Blair and Cameron both had increased vote share, councils and councillors in their first local election. Blair gained 1800 councillors, Cameron 300. Corbyn has lost 18.

Like you say we will see - I fear complete and utter devastation for Labour.

Do you think that is say David Miliband was the Labour leader or someone else such as Alan Johnston etc do you think it would make much difference for Labour?

[Ent]

But he didn't win any councils or seats? Blair and Cameron both had increased vote share, councils and councillors in their first local election. Blair gained 1800 councillors, Cameron 300. Corbyn has lost 18.

Like you say we will see - I fear complete and utter devastation for Labour.

Do you think that is say David Miliband was the Labour leader or someone else such as Alan Johnston etc do you think it would make much difference for Labour?

Yes most definitely, although a strong united opposition wouldn't have been given the opportunity of a snap election.

I don't think Labour can win a GE until they take back Scotland but they could well be decimated on 8th June.

[Muscular-mouse]

But he didn't win any councils or seats? Blair and Cameron both had increased vote share, councils and councillors in their first local election. Blair gained 1800 councillors, Cameron 300. Corbyn has lost 18.

Like you say we will see - I fear complete and utter devastation for Labour.

Do you think that is say David Miliband was the Labour leader or someone else such as Alan Johnston etc do you think it would make much difference for Labour?

Yes most definitely, although a strong united opposition wouldn't have been given the opportunity of a snap election.

I don't think Labour can win a GE until they take back Scotland but they could well be decimated on 8th June.

I don't think any party will take back Scotland from the SNP to be honest, not for a while anyway.

Who do you think will be the next Labour leader? rumours going around david Miliband will stand again as an mp in this election, hinting he may replace corbyn as leade after June.

[temporary21]

I like Corbyn the man. I don't think much of the party behind him. They've caught a real backstabbing bug lately and it makes then very hard to vote for

[GSC]

I find ironic that Labour MPs should fall in line behind a leader who never did the same as a MP.

[CaledonianCraig]

Labour have multiple problems going into this election. They come across as a deeply divided party who look to stab their leader in the back. They don't come across as having a definite stance on Brexit and how they'd deal with the negotiations. And Corbyn doesn't come across as a party leader. He talks a very good talk but you don't feel he is talking for the Labour Party but more as an individual.

[Ent]

The main problem is Corbyn, he causes the other problems i.e. divides the party, unclear stance/position on issues that are at odds with the official party stance.

I don't think he talks a good talk, he talks nonsense that the electorate have been rejecting for generations.

[GSC]

The British Communist party will not field any candidates and throw their support behind Jezza.

Says it all really

[Muscular-mouse]

The British Communist party will not field any candidates and throw their support behind Jezza.

Says it all really

Are you an American?

[Derbymanc]

he's worse, he's a Forest fan ;-)

Seriously though Musc, why would that make a difference

[navyblueshorts]

Apart from anything else (and Corby does make some good points), I don't trust him as far as I can throw him on defence at a time when the World seems less secure than it has for some while. For that one reason alone, I'd never vote Labour with him and his at the helm.

[GSC]

Hey.

[Ent]

Poll today suggesting Conservatives are going to gain biggest vote share in Wales for 1st time in 150 years.

What a terrifying time we live in.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Poll today suggesting Conservatives are going to gain biggest vote share in Wales for 1st time in 150 years.

What a terrifying time we live in.

If you're not a Conservative voter.

[Coxy001]

The electorate won't vote in a communist, pure and simple. Corbyn isn't a decent guy, he's spent his entire political career going against capitalism and this country will never ever be full of socialist numpties or believe in such crap.

How's Venezuela going for those that are?

Tory landslide. UKIP no more. Just hope the tories can move a bit more back to the centre ground after all this.

[Steffan]

I'll be voting Plaid as normal. Rumours are that Labour is on the decline in Wales according to polls. I don't pay attention to polls but if this was true then there are a few seats to be pinched. Not that it makes any difference in Westminster anyway I guess

[ShahenshahG]

I'm going to spoil the ballot. No one worth voting for and even though Shuker has been a decent mp he abstained during the crucial brexit vote so he can go f*ck himself the weasel.

[Steffan]

I hope Labour get into power though. I got no time for Corbyn but a Hard Brexit would be a disaster

[ShahenshahG]

There's no other kind of Brexit. The hopes that the UK can succeed post Brexit are based on other countries being wowed by our Britishness and letting us trade without tariff or barrier. This includes the fact that they would have to change the laws of their own country or trading bloc to accommodate the UK. It just won't be done. Not by the EU not by the Indians or chinese, not by the US. It also looks like we might get done for facilitating smuggling and consequently lose trust because of our inadequate systems. Also means our stuff will be checked twice. This is why even Trump will trade with the EU first and us second. There are only two options - EU lite as an associate member or hard Brexit that means even losing out the ability of our planes to land in the EU. I guess I might vote lib Dem as they are at least paying lip service to being an opposition of brexit but don't really think it will amount to much.

[Ent]

Poll today suggesting Conservatives are going to gain biggest vote share in Wales for 1st time in 150 years.

What a terrifying time we live in.

If you're not a Conservative voter.

Not really, you need your MP to be on their toes - not complacent.

The current government is not doing a good job on many issues, they should be worried about losing the next GE - not so confident of increasing their majority they call a snap election 3 years early.

[Ent]

I hope Labour get into power though. I got no time for Corbyn but a Hard Brexit would be a disaster

It's the only type of Brexit.

The so called soft Brexit would just be a watered down version of the already excellent EU membership deal we had i.e. no voting rights.

Labour et al would be better off campaigning on a second EU referendum based on the lies that were told in the run up to it. Would attract the huge pro EU vote and keep UKIP ticking along pinching votes off conservatives.

[Derbymanc]

Is there a huge Pro EU vote, i mean they lost the vote in the first place with neither side covering themselves in Glory, what we need is a whole knew referendum with it being a platform where only stats and facts can be used. Never gonna happen though.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Poll today suggesting Conservatives are going to gain biggest vote share in Wales for 1st time in 150 years.

What a terrifying time we live in.

If you're not a Conservative voter.

Not really, you need your MP to be on their toes - not complacent.

The current government is not doing a good job on many issues, they should be worried about losing the next GE - not so confident of increasing their majority they call a snap election 3 years early.

As a conservative voter I've no major gripes with what they're doing, the NHS is failing because of lazy idiots who want to find any reason not to work. Any government that is proactive in cutting benefits gets my vote.

The unfortunate reality is a lot of people who require help can't get it because of those who don't need it.

[Ent]

Is there a huge Pro EU vote, i mean they lost the vote in the first place with neither side covering themselves in Glory, what we need is a whole knew referendum with it being a platform where only stats and facts can be used. Never gonna happen though.

16 million people voted remain, 11.3 million voted for conservatives last GE. Yes more people voted leave but there is a huge pool of voters there for anyone who wants to reach out to them, as lib dems did in over turning 20k majority in taking goldsmiths seat.

[Pr4wn]

Poll today suggesting Conservatives are going to gain biggest vote share in Wales for 1st time in 150 years.

What a terrifying time we live in.

If you're not a Conservative voter.

Not really, you need your MP to be on their toes - not complacent.

The current government is not doing a good job on many issues, they should be worried about losing the next GE - not so confident of increasing their majority they call a snap election 3 years early.

As a conservative voter I've no major gripes with what they're doing, the NHS is failing because of lazy idiots who want to find any reason not to work. Any government that is proactive in cutting benefits gets my vote.

The unfortunate reality is a lot of people who require help can't get it because of those who don't need it.

Not sure I've ever read anything so stupid in my life.

You're saying that the NHS has suddenly become worse because people have suddenly become more workshy? Are you serious?

It's nothing to do with the cuts to the health budget as well as care budgets and disabled benefits? Come on.

[Hammersmith harrier]

When you go to a Hospital, how many people actually need to be there?

[Pr4wn]

What?

[Ent]

Poll today suggesting Conservatives are going to gain biggest vote share in Wales for 1st time in 150 years.

What a terrifying time we live in.

If you're not a Conservative voter.

Not really, you need your MP to be on their toes - not complacent.

The current government is not doing a good job on many issues, they should be worried about losing the next GE - not so confident of increasing their majority they call a snap election 3 years early.

As a conservative voter I've no major gripes with what they're doing, the NHS is failing because of lazy idiots who want to find any reason not to work. Any government that is proactive in cutting benefits gets my vote.

The unfortunate reality is a lot of people who require help can't get it because of those who don't need it.

All governments need strong opposition to ensure the electorate is properly represented, fear of losing an election is what keeps them going/honest. Do you think your MP will be arsed if they know their seat and position in government is secure no matter what?

The opposite is true on the NHS, having worked in it under successive governments what is causing it to fail is austerity at a time when things are getting more costly. The NHS is one of the most cost effective health care systems in the world, largely because a huge amount of the workforce provide service for free by staying late, cutting breaks short, taking work home etc It is extremely ignorant to label the NHS workforce as lazy.

[Hammersmith harrier]

I didn't label the NHS workers as lazy, I meant those outside of it who blame everything on immigration, you know those who don't have jobs because of foreigners taking them.

[Pr4wn]

So you're saying that it has nothing to do with the chronic under-funding of the service?

[Ent]

I didn't label the NHS workers as lazy, I meant those outside of it who blame everything on immigration, you know those who don't have jobs because of foreigners taking them.

Right, how are they making the NHS fail again?

[Steffan]

As a conservative voter I've no major gripes with what they're doing, the NHS is failing because of lazy idiots who want to find any reason not to work. Any government that is proactive in cutting benefits gets my vote

This has to be be the most messed up political comment I have read on here in a long time

[navyblueshorts]

I hope Labour get into power though. I got no time for Corbyn but a Hard Brexit would be a disaster

It's always assumed it's 'Hard Brexit' or nowt. Shah's point aside, I'm not sure May hasn't got her eye on silencing the 'Hard Brexit' numpties in her party if she wins a big mandate with this.

[navyblueshorts]

Poll today suggesting Conservatives are going to gain biggest vote share in Wales for 1st time in 150 years.

What a terrifying time we live in.

If you're not a Conservative voter.

Not really, you need your MP to be on their toes - not complacent.

The current government is not doing a good job on many issues, they should be worried about losing the next GE - not so confident of increasing their majority they call a snap election 3 years early.

As a conservative voter I've no major gripes with what they're doing, the NHS is failing because of lazy idiots who want to find any reason not to work. Any government that is proactive in cutting benefits gets my vote.

The unfortunate reality is a lot of people who require help can't get it because of those who don't need it.

What a daft comment to make . Stereotype others much?

[Derbymanc]

Is there a huge Pro EU vote, i mean they lost the vote in the first place with neither side covering themselves in Glory, what we need is a whole knew referendum with it being a platform where only stats and facts can be used. Never gonna happen though.

16 million people voted remain, 11.3 million voted for conservatives last GE. Yes more people voted leave but there is a huge pool of voters there for anyone who wants to reach out to them, as lib dems did in over turning 20k majority in taking goldsmiths seat.

That's a really good point Ent, If any party opens the door to full discussions over anything then I think they'll grab a lot of disenchanted voters

[Derbymanc]

RE the NHS isn't it down to the reverse pyramid affect that seems to happen with a lot of government institutions.

There's too many heads/chiefs/executives on larger money and not enough of the smaller workers.

[GSC]

Same as everything I suspect. Only so much money to go around

[Crimey]

Poll today suggesting Conservatives are going to gain biggest vote share in Wales for 1st time in 150 years.

What a terrifying time we live in.

If you're not a Conservative voter.

Not really, you need your MP to be on their toes - not complacent.

The current government is not doing a good job on many issues, they should be worried about losing the next GE - not so confident of increasing their majority they call a snap election 3 years early.

As a conservative voter I've no major gripes with what they're doing, the NHS is failing because of lazy idiots who want to find any reason not to work. Any government that is proactive in cutting benefits gets my vote.

The unfortunate reality is a lot of people who require help can't get it because of those who don't need it.

You're that spiteful that you would rather have a system where thousands to millions miss out on the help they need just to make sure those who don't need it don't slip through?

It's frustrating when people take advantage of a system not designed for them i.e. taking benefits they don't deserve, but I would rather live in a world where we ensure everyone who needs help gets the help they deserve and accept that some people who don't need it may be able to get it. 

Same with justice system, it's more important that no innocent people are wrongly punished than it is that all guilty people are. It's a sacrifice but a worthy one.

This "lazy idiots" is just propaganda you've swallowed from politicians who would rather you look down and complain about those with less than you, taking from you, than realise that the real problem are their rich friends and relatives who bleed the tax system dry by avoiding it as much as possible and want to pay their low-level employees a pittance. 

The amount "benefit thieves" and "NHS time-wasters" cost the tax-payer is minuscule compared to the level caused by the rich and powerful. They've played you like a fiddle and got you regurgitating their pathetic propaganda.

[Crimey]

Is there a huge Pro EU vote, i mean they lost the vote in the first place with neither side covering themselves in Glory, what we need is a whole knew referendum with it being a platform where only stats and facts can be used. Never gonna happen though.

16 million people voted remain, 11.3 million voted for conservatives last GE. Yes more people voted leave but there is a huge pool of voters there for anyone who wants to reach out to them, as lib dems did in over turning 20k majority in taking goldsmiths seat.

That's a really good point Ent, If any party opens the door to full discussions over anything then I think they'll grab a lot of disenchanted voters

Problem is the same one as ever though. I would quite like to vote Lib Dem, I am somewhere between Lib Dem and Labour in my political leanings but Lib Dem's policy on Europe is tempting me to go with them. However I live in a constituency which was Conservative pre-2015 and Labour only just won and Lib Dems came fourth! If I don't vote Labour, I am essentially opening the door for Conservatives. 

I'm not sure that proportional representation is the solution but the electoral system completely fails to represent the views of the country.

[GSC]

Is it just me that thinks both the benefits cheats and evil corporations avoiding tax cards are played way too much.

[ShahenshahG]

I hope Labour get into power though. I got no time for Corbyn but a Hard Brexit would be a disaster

It's always assumed it's 'Hard Brexit' or nowt. Shah's point aside, I'm not sure May hasn't got her eye on silencing the 'Hard Brexit' numpties in her party if she wins a big mandate with this.

I have been hoping for such, but the ignorance is so vast and the delay in triggering the article has yielded positive news (lower currency - while still in the EU and EU agreements worldwide) has been leading the government to promising more and more things that are out of our hands - look at this for example,

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/brexit-voters_uk_58f47aefe4b0da2ff8619ddb

https://www.ft.com/content/72ead180-229a-11e7-8691-d5f7e0cd0a16

If she wants to consolidate her position she needs to empty out her cabinet save for Hammond and start over again. But it seems the ignorance is not limited to the mad brexiteers it's endemic in the whole party. There is a risk that she will consolidate the conservative party's power but hem herself in further with more ignorant brexiteers being elected in.

[Crimey]

Is it just me that thinks both the benefits cheats and evil corporations avoiding tax cards are played way too much.

I do agree, but it's frustrating when the former is such a small problem compared to the latter, yet so many people seem to vote based on the former.

[ShahenshahG]

Is it just me that thinks both the benefits cheats and evil corporations avoiding tax cards are played way too much.

I do agree, but it's frustrating when the former is such a small problem compared to the latter, yet so many people seem to vote based on the former.

Easy to blame a group of people - less easy to blame a group of faceless companies, like the soldiers getting abused and politicians getting off virtually unchallenged over Iraq.

[GSC]

To me, both seem tiny compared to the sums required to run a country.

Not sure there's vast sums to be made on clamping down on the former and any gains are likely offset by companies downsizing to pay bills.

[navyblueshorts]

RE the NHS isn't it down to the reverse pyramid affect that seems to happen with a lot of government institutions.

There's too many heads/chiefs/executives on larger money and not enough of the smaller workers.

I suspect that sounds good, but in reality the money used to pay the smaller workers would dwarf that going to much smaller numbers of real execs. Not so sure about middle management though.

One of the problems with the NHS is that the running of it appears to have been taken over by managers, when it should be run by clinicians.

[navyblueshorts]

I hope Labour get into power though. I got no time for Corbyn but a Hard Brexit would be a disaster

It's always assumed it's 'Hard Brexit' or nowt. Shah's point aside, I'm not sure May hasn't got her eye on silencing the 'Hard Brexit' numpties in her party if she wins a big mandate with this.

I have been hoping for such, but the ignorance is so vast and the delay in triggering the article has yielded positive news (lower currency - while still in the EU and EU agreements worldwide) has been leading the government to promising more and more things that are out of our hands - look at this for example,

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/brexit-voters_uk_58f47aefe4b0da2ff8619ddb

https://www.ft.com/content/72ead180-229a-11e7-8691-d5f7e0cd0a16

If she wants to consolidate her position she needs to empty out her cabinet save for Hammond and start over again. But it seems the ignorance is not limited to the mad brexiteers it's endemic in the whole party. There is a risk that she will consolidate the conservative party's power but hem herself in further with more ignorant brexiteers being elected in.

The other thing about GEs is that there tends to be a lot of re-shuffling afterwards, for a variety of reasons. Maybe she'll dispense with Fox, Johnson, Davis etc? Can't see it really, but here's hoping.

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