2019 General Election

by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 09 Dec 2019, 12:49 pm

The key questions for me:

How many Leave voters still want Brexit;

Of those who do, how many put Brexit before all else;

What damage the Brexit party will do the the Conservatives' hopes of taking Labour leave seats.

by TightHEAD Mon 09 Dec 2019, 12:49 pm

Steffan wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:17.4 Million peoples voices have been silenced. Its time to vote out those who do not believe in democracy.

Shame on Parliament.

There is a bloke down the road from me who looks like that!

Calling a white person a Gammon is no different than associating fried chicken with black people, It is racism, it is no different and it is disgusting! kiss

by Duty281 Mon 09 Dec 2019, 12:53 pm

Tories got a polling boost over the weekend. Their lead with YouGov went from 9% to 10%, from 6% to 9% with BMG and from 9% to 14% with Survation. Their 15% lead with Opinium also remained stable.

Safe to say there’s no Labour charge in the polling, unlike 2017, and Corbyn’s own ratings are much lower than two and a half years ago.

Tories getting a majority is now a 2/9 shot.

by McLaren Mon 09 Dec 2019, 12:54 pm

Navy

Please follow the thread more carefully before posting. The Sergio comments are relevant because it is part of establishing supers views on discrimination. Which is clearly on topic given his sudden keenness to question labour's handing of antisemitism, a large part of the election debate.

by Duty281 Mon 09 Dec 2019, 12:56 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:The key questions for me:

How many Leave voters still want Brexit;

Of those who do, how many put Brexit before all else;

What damage the Brexit party will do the the Conservatives' hopes of taking Labour leave seats.

The Brexit Party are doing a great service to the Tory Party in most Northern Labour Leave seats e.g. Grimsby, but you could argue that they’re getting in each other’s way in some other seats like Hartlepool and Barnsley Central.

by TightHEAD Mon 09 Dec 2019, 1:00 pm

superflyweight wrote:For admins/mods - is there a word or words associated with either the intimate parts of either the male or female anatomy that I can use to describe Tightend that will make it past the censors?

Make love

and stop breeding hate Hug

by **navyblueshorts** Mon 09 Dec 2019, 2:01 pm

TightHEAD wrote:
Steffan wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:17.4 Million peoples voices have been silenced. Its time to vote out those who do not believe in democracy.

Shame on Parliament.

There is a bloke down the road from me who looks like that!

Calling a white person a Gammon is no different than associating fried chicken with black people, It is racism, it is no different and it is disgusting!

Apart from the fact it's got bob-all to do with the colour of your skin and everything to do with a red face associated with anger...

by **navyblueshorts** Mon 09 Dec 2019, 2:01 pm

McLaren wrote:Navy

Please follow the thread more carefully before posting. The Sergio comments are relevant because it is part of establishing supers views on discrimination. Which is clearly on topic given his sudden keenness to question labour's handing of antisemitism, a large part of the election debate.

No, they aren't relevant to a discussion on the 2019 UK GE. I won't say it again.

by TightHEAD Mon 09 Dec 2019, 2:26 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:
Steffan wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:17.4 Million peoples voices have been silenced. Its time to vote out those who do not believe in democracy.

Shame on Parliament.

There is a bloke down the road from me who looks like that!

Calling a white person a Gammon is no different than associating fried chicken with black people, It is racism, it is no different and it is disgusting!
Apart from the fact it's got bob-all to do with the colour of your skin and everything to do with a red face associated with anger...

It is derogatory and it is disgusting, simply not acceptable in this day and age.

by McLaren Mon 09 Dec 2019, 2:33 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
McLaren wrote:Navy

Please follow the thread more carefully before posting. The Sergio comments are relevant because it is part of establishing supers views on discrimination. Which is clearly on topic given his sudden keenness to question labour's handing of antisemitism, a large part of the election debate.
No, they aren't relevant to a discussion on the 2019 UK GE. I won't say it again.

Please your honor, I am trying to establish the fact Super has never before given a crap about racial social justice.

by TightHEAD Mon 09 Dec 2019, 4:08 pm

I guess everyone has already made up their minds.

by LordDowlais Mon 09 Dec 2019, 4:10 pm

I'm not voting.

by Guest Mon 09 Dec 2019, 4:13 pm

TightHEAD wrote:17.4 Million peoples voices have been silenced. Its time to vote out those who do not believe in democracy.

Shame on Parliament.

Lol...

At least soundbite writers know they're not going out of business any time soon. There's clearly still a client base there.

by Guest Mon 09 Dec 2019, 4:15 pm

Duty281 wrote:Tories got a polling boost over the weekend. Their lead with YouGov went from 9% to 10%, from 6% to 9% with BMG and from 9% to 14% with Survation. Their 15% lead with Opinium also remained stable.

Safe to say there’s no Labour charge in the polling, unlike 2017, and Corbyn’s own ratings are much lower than two and a half years ago.

Tories getting a majority is now a 2/9 shot.

Interesting. Wonder why that might be.

by TightHEAD Mon 09 Dec 2019, 4:45 pm

LordDowlais wrote:I'm not voting.

Lord I'm with you on this one.

by **navyblueshorts** Mon 09 Dec 2019, 5:01 pm

TightHEAD wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:
Steffan wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:17.4 Million peoples voices have been silenced. Its time to vote out those who do not believe in democracy.

Shame on Parliament.

There is a bloke down the road from me who looks like that!

Calling a white person a Gammon is no different than associating fried chicken with black people, It is racism, it is no different and it is disgusting!
Apart from the fact it's got bob-all to do with the colour of your skin and everything to do with a red face associated with anger...

It is derogatory and it is disgusting, simply not acceptable in this day and age.

by Samo Mon 09 Dec 2019, 5:17 pm

New polls seem to show the Tories have stagnated at 42% while Labour are still making gains. Looks like we're heading for another hung parliament, and I dont think Johnson will have the DUP to bail the Tories out this time.

by Duty281 Mon 09 Dec 2019, 5:32 pm

Samo wrote:New polls seem to show the Tories have stagnated at 42% while Labour are still making gains. Looks like we're heading for another hung parliament, and I dont think Johnson will have the DUP to bail the Tories out this time.

If you genuinely think that, get on the 10/3 available for there to be a hung parliament.

Labour have only made gains in two of the last six polls commissioned (tiny gains at that; not enough to make up the difference), and the internal party has already thrown in the towel and is gearing up for a leadership election (Kier Starmer expected to run)

by Guest Mon 09 Dec 2019, 5:40 pm

Excellent news if Starmer is in the running - no one comes even close to him in the party. The shambles and shame, however, is the noise about Labour 'needing' a female leader after Corbyn - what a great way to continue being unelectable by pushing fringe party "principles" before actual competence.

However, my guess would be that polling is simply not as accurate as it would wish to be. Since 2016, nearly all elections have defied the published polling - less so the pollsters who make huge profits selling their data to private capital or the parties themselves.

While the odds do seem to indicate a Tory majority - and I would presume that is to do with the fact the UKIP and Lib Dem vote was non existent in 2017, and the Brexit Party will take big votes away from Labour this time around, with Lib Dem adding their fair share as well - I wouldn't bank on it. Simply because...'you never know'. You really never know if there will be a huge student turnout in certain seats, or that...you know...polling is inaccurate and people are lying. People don't want to admit to voting for Corbyn now - it's not just shy Tories anymore, it's shy everyone, with lots of floating middle voters possibly making it very hard to predict.

I would be amazed if it's a Tory majority tbh. I think they'll miss it by a couple of seats.

by super_realist Mon 09 Dec 2019, 6:45 pm

miaow wrote:Excellent news if Starmer is in the running - no one comes even close to him in the party. The shambles and shame, however, is the noise about Labour 'needing' a female leader after Corbyn - what a great way to continue being unelectable by pushing fringe party "principles" before actual competence.

However, my guess would be that polling is simply not as accurate as it would wish to be. Since 2016, nearly all elections have defied the published polling - less so the pollsters who make huge profits selling their data to private capital or the parties themselves.

While the odds do seem to indicate a Tory majority - and I would presume that is to do with the fact the UKIP and Lib Dem vote was non existent in 2017, and the Brexit Party will take big votes away from Labour this time around, with Lib Dem adding their fair share as well - I wouldn't bank on it. Simply because...'you never know'. You really never know if there will be a huge student turnout in certain seats, or that...you know...polling is inaccurate and people are lying. People don't want to admit to voting for Corbyn now - it's not just shy Tories anymore, it's shy everyone, with lots of floating middle voters possibly making it very hard to predict.

I would be amazed if it's a Tory majority tbh. I think they'll miss it by a couple of seats.

That's who I'd rather see than the moronic Wolfie Smith Corbyn. Hopefully Starmer would clear the decks of lunatics like McDonnell and Abbott and provide a viable alternative to the Tories instead of being a party for middle class North London graduates only.

Will Labour however pick the awful little Corbynite Long-Bailey or Emily Thornberry to tick a diversity box?

by super_realist Mon 09 Dec 2019, 6:47 pm

McLaren wrote:Samo

Sergio Garcia and Fuzzy Zeoller have both used the racist fried chicken trope towards Tiger Woods. There is a long running debate in the golf section where you will not be surprised to learn a lot of the posters, super_realist included, refuse to accept this as racist.

Love sacks Mac, I never made such a claim. Why don't you provide evidence, or will it be like all the other times you've made a claim about something I said and not been able to back it up with any evidence?

You're a fantasist.

by McLaren Mon 09 Dec 2019, 7:28 pm

Fine

Let's make it simple. Was Sergios fried chicken comment racist?

by super_realist Mon 09 Dec 2019, 7:35 pm

Yes. Fried chicken is a racist slur, along the lines of "cotton picking" or "water melon" is.

Did Sergio know it was racist and was he being intentionally racist? That's the point none of us know, although I'm sure you'll pretend to know what he was saying. However, given that you call him pea-head, maybe you could be acknowledging that he may not have been aware or may not have done it deliberately.

by Duty281 Mon 09 Dec 2019, 8:52 pm

super_realist wrote:Will Labour however pick the awful little Corbynite Long-Bailey or Emily Thornberry to tick a diversity box?

Wouldn’t be surprised to see an all-women shortlist when Labour elect their next leader.

by Samo Tue 10 Dec 2019, 6:43 am

Duty281 wrote:
super_realist wrote:Will Labour however pick the awful little Corbynite Long-Bailey or Emily Thornberry to tick a diversity box?

Wouldn’t be surprised to see an all-women shortlist when Labour elect their next leader.

Thornberry would be a good choice but Long-Bailey would be way out of her depth. She’s got a long way to go before she has what it takes to lead the party.

by **Afro** Tue 10 Dec 2019, 9:11 am

Labour shooting themselves in the foot last night.

A debate involving the demographic that they are relying on to get close i.e. under 30s and they choose Angela Rayner as their representative. I have no idea what she believes in because I can't see past the fact she just shouts over everyone else and is just constantly rude, and therefore I don't take in what she is actually trying to say.

Someone like Jess Phillips would have been a good choice. Really ballsy, but also not over the top in her shouting down of others

by Soul Requiem Tue 10 Dec 2019, 9:19 am

Afro wrote:Labour shooting themselves in the foot last night.

A debate involving the demographic that they are relying on to get close i.e. under 30s and they choose Angela Rayner as their representative. I have no idea what she believes in because I can't see past the fact she just shouts over everyone else and is just constantly rude, and therefore I don't take in what she is actually trying to say.

Someone like Jess Phillips would have been a good choice. Really ballsy, but also not over the top in her shouting down of others

That's just how the left wing of Labour go about things, it doesn't play to their core to go to Cooper or Benn but their concise debating style plays well to the wider public.

by **Afro** Tue 10 Dec 2019, 9:21 am

Angela Rayner is about the worst choice they could have made though

by LordDowlais Tue 10 Dec 2019, 9:51 am

TightHEAD wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:I'm not voting.

Lord I'm with you on this one.

It's a massive shame.

This is the first time ever, in my adult life I have not exorcised my right to vote. What a sign of the times we live in.

I am a staunch Labour man, but I cannot, and will not, bring myself to vote for Corbyn. Also, there is no way I will vote Conservative, Plaid ? Not a snowballs chance in hell, Brexit ? I want to remain.

What an absolute mess this country is in. mad

by TightHEAD Tue 10 Dec 2019, 10:22 am

You wouldn't want to bump into Angela Rayner in a bar and spill her drink, she is an aggressive nut-job.

Edited - completely unnaceptable comment. RDW

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Tue 10 Dec 2019, 10:30 am

I hadn't seen much sexism in this thread, so it's nice to have sexism, racism and antisemitism all in there recently. Bingo card

by Duty281 Tue 10 Dec 2019, 10:39 am

Haven’t seen any sexism in this thread, to be honest.

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 10 Dec 2019, 10:45 am

LordDowlais wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:I'm not voting.

Lord I'm with you on this one.

It's a massive shame.

This is the first time ever, in my adult life I have not exorcised my right to vote. What a sign of the times we live in.

I am a staunch Labour man, but I cannot, and will not, bring myself to vote for Corbyn. Also, there is no way I will vote Conservative, Plaid ? Not a snowballs chance in hell, Brexit ? I want to remain.

What an absolute mess this country is in.

Forgive me if you've already answered this Dowlais, but what is it about Corbyn that makes you feel like you can't vote Labour? Is he really that bad that you can't even bring yourself to vote Labour in a 'best of a bad bunch' way?

That said, no one's obliged to vote, and if no party has done enough to persuade you to support them, then fair play.

by **LondonTiger** Tue 10 Dec 2019, 10:46 am

Duty281 wrote:Haven’t seen any sexism in this thread, to be honest.

Only two posts above:

Good work Labour for putting her forward , I guess she could play it was her time of the month card to excuse her awful behaviour.

by TightHEAD Tue 10 Dec 2019, 10:54 am

My post has sent me on holiday

by LordDowlais Tue 10 Dec 2019, 11:03 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:I'm not voting.

Lord I'm with you on this one.

It's a massive shame.

This is the first time ever, in my adult life I have not exorcised my right to vote. What a sign of the times we live in.

I am a staunch Labour man, but I cannot, and will not, bring myself to vote for Corbyn. Also, there is no way I will vote Conservative, Plaid ? Not a snowballs chance in hell, Brexit ? I want to remain.

What an absolute mess this country is in.

Forgive me if you've already answered this Dowlais, but what is it about Corbyn that makes you feel like you can't vote Labour? Is he really that bad that you can't even bring yourself to vote Labour in a 'best of a bad bunch' way?

That said, no one's obliged to vote, and if no party has done enough to persuade you to support them, then fair play.

Not a problem LP.

The thing is, Corbyn's views are so much for what I am against. No 7 & 1/2 took a sly swipe at me earlier in this thread for my reasoning.

What Corbyn wants is this equality for all, but what that does is just stop people trying to achieve. I have worked hard, made sacrifices, taken risks, I have also reaped the rewards for all that.

Now if Corbyn gets his way, then he will have everybody getting the same rewards, no matter who is taking the risks, then what do you get ? You do not get people like me, and my family, who are now in a position to employ 20 people, and give them a good living.

He will bring this country to it's knees, it's small family run businesses like mine, that are the backbone of this country, his policies will ruin these small enterprises that employ the people of the UK, and that is just for starters. Do not get me started on his stance with the armed forces, the NHS to name a few things.

The man is a menace.

by **LondonTiger** Tue 10 Dec 2019, 11:03 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Forgive me if you've already answered this Dowlais, but what about is it about Corbyn that makes you feel like you can't vote Labour? Is he really that bad that you can't even bring yourself to vote Labour in a 'best of a bad bunch' way?

That said, no one's obliged to vote, and if no party has done enough to persuade you to support the, then fair play.

I always go to vote - but as in the Crime Commissioner votes have spoiled my ballot in the past (in this case because these positions should not be political and we had no independent candidates).

I do have an issue this time round in how to vote. I first campaigned for Labour in 1975, handing out leaflets with my Granddad just before he died of cancer from working down the pits. However after 35 years as a member I resigned from the party last year. This was not specifically due to Corbyn - though having been an activist in Stoke Newington I met him on a number of occasions and found him to be petty, lazy and stupid (plus he called my father a murderer for having served in the army). However the tone of CLP meetings took a serious downturn after he became leader. Anyone who ever offered any conflicting opinion or indeed did not hail JC as our one true saviour were first shouted down, and then in my mothers case physically manhandled. A septuagenarian physically removed from a meeting by a handful of white men in their 30s/40s. She was left bruised yet following a complaint to the General Secretary (and Jennie Formby is not fit to lace Ian McNichols boots) she was teh one kicked out of the party she had campaigned for for over 60 years.

There are a lot of good people in the Labour Party - and unlike the Tories it cares about social injustice, but there is a rotten core in Momentum that has infected the party itself. Now I am in a seat that will probably be won pretty easily by the sitting Tory MP. He is not a bad constituency MP - but I cannot vote for his party. Thus my vote becomes about tokenism and I do not feel I want to give it to Labour. I believe, despite the flaws, they have the best policies but I do not wish to give any moral support to a man like JC or his rabid supporters. if there was any chance of getting an ABT result I would vote tactically. A party led by Keir Starmer, Emily Thornberry or Jess Philips is one I could get behind. As it is I suspect come Thursday I will vote for our Green Candidate.

by LordDowlais Tue 10 Dec 2019, 11:16 am

LondonTiger wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Forgive me if you've already answered this Dowlais, but what about is it about Corbyn that makes you feel like you can't vote Labour? Is he really that bad that you can't even bring yourself to vote Labour in a 'best of a bad bunch' way?

That said, no one's obliged to vote, and if no party has done enough to persuade you to support the, then fair play.

I always go to vote - but as in the Crime Commissioner votes have spoiled my ballot in the past (in this case because these positions should not be political and we had no independent candidates).

I do have an issue this time round in how to vote. I first campaigned for Labour in 1975, handing out leaflets with my Granddad just before he died of cancer from working down the pits. However after 35 years as a member I resigned from the party last year. This was not specifically due to Corbyn - though having been an activist in Stoke Newington I met him on a number of occasions and found him to be petty, lazy and stupid (plus he called my father a murderer for having served in the army). However the tone of CLP meetings took a serious downturn after he became leader. Anyone who ever offered any conflicting opinion or indeed did not hail JC as our one true saviour were first shouted down, and then in my mothers case physically manhandled. A septuagenarian physically removed from a meeting by a handful of white men in their 30s/40s. She was left bruised yet following a complaint to the General Secretary (and Jennie Formby is not fit to lace Ian McNichols boots) she was teh one kicked out of the party she had campaigned for for over 60 years.

There are a lot of good people in the Labour Party - and unlike the Tories it cares about social injustice, but there is a rotten core in Momentum that has infected the party itself. Now I am in a seat that will probably be won pretty easily by the sitting Tory MP. He is not a bad constituency MP - but I cannot vote for his party. Thus my vote becomes about tokenism and I do not feel I want to give it to Labour. I believe, despite the flaws, they have the best policies but I do not wish to give any moral support to a man like JC or his rabid supporters. if there was any chance of getting an ABT result I would vote tactically. A party led by Keir Starmer, Emily Thornberry or Jess Philips is one I could get behind. As it is I suspect come Thursday I will vote for our Green Candidate.

That is God awful.

My Grandfather worked down the mines, I went picketing with him when I was a youngster, he died of emphysema, a condition brought on from working underground. My Father in law was man and boy working underground, he died of cancer two years ago, both proud members of the Labour party, both proud of Labour and what it stood for.

They will both be turning in their graves at the minute, what happened to your mother is disgusting, and is an indictment of how the party is being run, it is not Labour anymore, it is not a party for the working class, it is not a party that welcomes all, no matter what colour or creed they are.

It is something else.

by **LondonTiger** Tue 10 Dec 2019, 11:20 am

TightHEAD wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Haven’t seen any sexism in this thread, to be honest.

Only two posts above:

Good work Labour for putting her forward , I guess she could play it was her time of the month card to excuse her awful behaviour.

Why is that sexist?

She was way over the top even by the standards set in this election.
There was no reason for her to be acting like a chav on speed all the way through that show.

It is sexist due to the suggestion that she was acting that way because she was on her period, thus because she is a woman. Not seen the show, but if she behaved appallingly maybe it is because she is that way rather than because she is a woman.

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 10 Dec 2019, 11:26 am

LondonTiger wrote:Anyone who ever offered any conflicting opinion or indeed did not hail JC as our one true saviour were first shouted down, and then in my mothers case physically manhandled. A septuagenarian physically removed from a meeting by a handful of white men in their 30s/40s. She was left bruised yet following a complaint to the General Secretary (and Jennie Formby is not fit to lace Ian McNichols boots) she was teh one kicked out of the party she had campaigned for for over 60 years.

That's appalling.

by McLaren Tue 10 Dec 2019, 1:23 pm

super_realist wrote:Yes. Fried chicken is a racist slur, along the lines of "cotton picking" or "water melon" is.

Did Sergio know it was racist and was he being intentionally racist?

So putting Sergios intention to one side, you will have to agree that the comment was racist regardless of his intent?

by super_realist Tue 10 Dec 2019, 1:26 pm

McLaren wrote:
super_realist wrote:Yes. Fried chicken is a racist slur, along the lines of "cotton picking" or "water melon" is.

Did Sergio know it was racist and was he being intentionally racist?

So putting Sergios intention to one side, you will have to agree that the comment was racist regardless of his intent?

I've never claimed it wasn't Mac.
You seemed to have taken more offence at it than Botox has himself.

by McLaren Tue 10 Dec 2019, 1:36 pm

Super

I was just frustrated by the response from the golf section. It saddens me that people continue to defend that sort of racist slur.

I now also see you are not part of the the group that was claiming "fried chicken" wasn't even a racist slur. Although I don't think we agree on what sergio knew about it, I think it is impossible for someone who has lived most of his life in the US not to know about it.

by Soul Requiem Tue 10 Dec 2019, 1:40 pm

McLaren wrote:Super

I was just frustrated by the response from the golf section. It saddens me that people continue to defend that sort of racist slur.

I now also see you are not part of the the group that was claiming "fried chicken" wasn't even a racist slur. Although I don't think we agree on what sergio knew about it, I think it is impossible for someone who has lived most of his life in the US not to know about it.

The only reason you would use the term at all is because of the racial connotations, it's akin to when Suarez tried defending himself after racially abusing Evra.

by super_realist Tue 10 Dec 2019, 1:46 pm

McLaren wrote:Super

I was just frustrated by the response from the golf section. It saddens me that people continue to defend that sort of racist slur.

I now also see you are not part of the the group that was claiming "fried chicken" wasn't even a racist slur. Although I don't think we agree on what sergio knew about it, I think it is impossible for someone who has lived most of his life in the US not to know about it.

I think its perfectly plausible, though I'm not claiming he doesn't.
What you have to remember is that pro golfers are very much like pro Footballers in levels of education. They don't have a connection to the real world, and don't have the benefit of being worldly wise. Garcia was a prodigy, and will have been molly coddled for most of his life by management and agents.

I'm not claiming he didn't know or that he did know, just that it's perfectly plausible given his background that he wasn't aware.

by No 7&1/2 Tue 10 Dec 2019, 1:50 pm

What am I supposed to have had a sly swipe at you about LD?

by McLaren Tue 10 Dec 2019, 1:55 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
The only reason you would use the term at all is because of the racial connotations

In the sane realm, not in the gammon world of golf.

by LordDowlais Tue 10 Dec 2019, 1:56 pm

@ No 7&1/2 .This

No 7&1/2 wrote:Presumably you're bothered about changes to the dividends tax for your business and change to the pensions. Balanced by pu lick sector workers finally getting pay rises in line with inflation and beyond and better pensions?

And please do not say otherwise, stand by what you said, and admit it was a dig.

by Soul Requiem Tue 10 Dec 2019, 1:58 pm

McLaren wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
The only reason you would use the term at all is because of the racial connotations

In the sane realm, not in the gammon world of golf.

Then you go and lose any moral high ground you had.

by No 7&1/2 Tue 10 Dec 2019, 2:13 pm

Oh. No that was a response to the conversation on the additional costs to the working man. And then me asking if that was balance. Purely a statement on what I thought you were alluding to (was it? It's the only thing I can think of). And then a question asking you if it's not more a trade off. I stand by my point and my question though. Be silly not to as I think you've yet to confirm the prior or answer the latter.

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