UK General Election 2017 Thread

[Muscular-mouse]

First topic message reminder :

Ok guys what are your predictions, how will you be voting and who do you want to win.

[Samo]

Again, putting the needs of the few before the needs of the many.

[Hammersmith harrier]

It's realism, you tax the rich and the poor lose their jobs.

[Pr4wn]

I'm starting to think that this is just a WUM, now. I wasn't aware that any sentient human could be so devoid of humanity.

[Samo]

Im going to bow out now before I say something I regret and get myself into bother.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Unable to comprehend a different perspective so start to throw around insults, your arguments are empty.

If you increase the 45p tax band it will result in job cuts, not sure how acknowledging that is a WUM or devoid of humanity.

[Pr4wn]

I'm saying it now. You're a WUM. I'm done feeding you.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Your lack of intellect shines through, your inability to formulate an argument speaks volumes. You shout a lot without saying a single thing.

[Pr4wn]

Your lack of intellect shines through, you're inability to formulate an argument speaks volumes. You shout a lot without saying a single thing.

[GSC]

He's not entirely wrong though...

The top 1% contribute 27% of tax. 10% contribute 59%

Squeeze high earners and they take their money elsewhere and you have what. Massive tax rises on the middle class? Major cuts to public services. Taxing the poor is pretty ineffective.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Still deflecting from the point then I see, it's perfectly acceptable to admit you haven't got a clue.

[Hammersmith harrier]

He's not entirely wrong though...

The top 1% contribute 27% of tax. 10% contribute 59%

Squeeze high earners and they take their money elsewhere and you have what. Massive tax rises on the middle class? Major cuts to public services. Taxing the poor is pretty ineffective.

It doesn't say that in the Labour manifesto so can't possibly be true but in Utopia it seems a fabulous idea.

[Muscular-mouse]

I'm saying it now. You're a WUM. I'm done feeding you.

I too thought he was a WUM and his views seem to be getting more extreme every day. It is like the more people who comment that they like the nhs etc makes him feel like he has to comment even more extreme views.

[Hammersmith harrier]

How on earth is that an extreme view, it is simple common sense and at what point have I said it's good thing?

[GSC]

Someone lying on the opposite side of the political spectrum to you doesn't make them a wum

[Muscular-mouse]

He's not entirely wrong though...

The top 1% contribute 27% of tax. 10% contribute 59%

Squeeze high earners and they take their money elsewhere and you have what. Massive tax rises on the middle class? Major cuts to public services. Taxing the poor is pretty ineffective.

In terms of corporation tax, 26% as proposed by Labour is still 4% lower than the average corporation tax in the G7 which is 30% and is 10% lower than corporation tax in the usa.

For income tax a return to 2009 levels of 50% income tax is roughly the same as The biggest economies in Europe such as Germany and Italy and a lower top rate than France, Netherlands, Austria, Sweden, Denmark, Czech republic, Finland, Luxembourg, and Belgium.

A 50% tax rate is about average world wide with Israel, Japan, Australia, spain, Portugal, Iceland all having similer top rate tax levels.

A return to 50% top rate income tax is not so drastic that it would scare people away because the majority of countries have a top rate income tax either slightly lower by a few percent or slightly higher by a few percent.

[Muscular-mouse]

Someone lying on the opposite side of the political spectrum to you doesn't make them a wum

I am not saying that because he is right wing he is a WUM. It is the comments he makes that seem to be getting more extreme that appears like he is fishing for a reaction rather than expressing his genuine beliefs.

[GSC]

It's all relative my friend. What I'm paying now vs what I was paying is far more important.

If there's suddenly a big hole in my balance sheet, how am I going to account for that? Generally, you'll reduce expenditure, and the easiest expenditure to dump is workers.

Companies aren't going to start losing money just because Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell think they're evil.

[TRUSSMAN66]

"The minimum wage will cause huge unemployment" Tory campaign 1997..

Strangely enough it didn't.

[Samo]

Even if you lower the 50% tax band to £80k per annum you're still walking away with £40k a year - just over £3250 a month. Thats well over double what i earn and I live comfortably. If you cant live well on that money you need to reevaluate your priorities.

Problem is the rich are never content. The rich always want more while the poor just want enough.

[GSC]

Everyone aspires to more than what they have. It's very human

[Muscular-mouse]

Even if you lower the 50% tax band to £80k per annum you're still walking away with £40k a year - just over £3250 a month. Thats well over double what i earn and I live comfortably. If you cant live well on that money you need to reevaluate your priorities.

Problem is the rich are never content. The rich always want more while the poor just want enough.

I agree, if everyone paid a bit more tax who could afford it then the UK would be a much better place. We would have the money to get the nhs back on its feet. We would be able to invest in our children's education and by investing in children we will hopefully give them a better start in life which will mean a generation of more qualified people resulting in less people being on welfare, less homelessness and more people paying tax into the system. If we had more tax revenue we could give pensioners the perfect end to their life by giving them a pension that lets them live with dignity, we could improve our rail system and road networks and we could eradicate poverty.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

More of people making inane posts that don't mean anything, I think.

Like this one?

I despair at the foolishness of youth but hey you're entitled to your misplaced opinions.

The foolishness of youth from someone who doesn't believe in left wing politics. Or that people giving valid arguments for Corbyn would be a reason to think about those. I can see the word foolish coming up here.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Even if you lower the 50% tax band to £80k per annum you're still walking away with £40k a year - just over £3250 a month. Thats well over double what i earn and I live comfortably. If you cant live well on that money you need to reevaluate your priorities.

Problem is the rich are never content. The rich always want more while the poor just want enough.

My priorities are me and my family, you might not agree but they are the people who matter to me.

[Muscular-mouse]

Even if you lower the 50% tax band to £80k per annum you're still walking away with £40k a year - just over £3250 a month. Thats well over double what i earn and I live comfortably. If you cant live well on that money you need to reevaluate your priorities.

Problem is the rich are never content. The rich always want more while the poor just want enough.

My priorities are me and my family,  you might not agree but they are the people who matter to me.

You can still look after your family and pay a fair share of tax that makes the uk a better place for EVERYONE to live in.

[GSC]

What is a fair share.

The richest 10% already pay 59% of income tax

[Pr4wn]

Says more about the distribution of wealth than the tax regime.

[GSC]

"The richest should pay more tax"

"They're pretty much already shouldering most of the tax burden"

"......The richest are too rich"

[Scottrf]

Even if you lower the 50% tax band to £80k per annum you're still walking away with £40k a year - just over £3250 a month. Thats well over double what i earn and I live comfortably. If you cant live well on that money you need to reevaluate your priorities.

Problem is the rich are never content. The rich always want more while the poor just want enough.

Tax isn't retrospective. 55k is enough to take home 40

[Muscular-mouse]

Says more about the distribution of wealth than the tax regime.

I was going to make the exact comment.

[Ent]

To even maintain our current level of public services (never mind improve or expand) we need to increase the amount available to the treasury.

There are a few ways to do this (not exhaustive list)

cuts - not popular
improving economy and increasing gdp - not easy
taxing people - unpopular
taxing companies - potential issues for jobs etc

Need to do all 4 in my opinion, everyone needs to pay more tax - the IFS agree that it is a pipe dream that taxing the richest and faceless corporations will cover the proposed expenditure by labour.

Labours manifesto is not costed, it is £9 billion short for one policy (student fees) in it's first year and none of the nationalisations are costed. There are also questions over the sums.

The national grid might cost £124 billion to renationalise (though these figures are somewhat disputed) and isn't even owned entirely by British companies.

Those going on about higher corporation tax in other countries also need to understand that general taxation is higher there, we have more of a tax free allowance, lower % tax for middle earners and a higher allowance before you hit the highest bracket.

Ultimately this election is a complete and utter mess and the electorate have very poor options to choose from.

[MrInvisible]

Regarding tuition fees there's a strong argument for investing in our young people - helps improve our skill base in the long term - its a sound investment in my opinion.

I personally think its great for people to finally have the choice to vote for a mainstream party offering progressive left-wing policies - for most of my life this choice has not been provided.

In previous elections we had many people complaining 'what's the point of voting - they're all the same'. This time we have a real clear choice, and that has to be a good thing. Corbyn certainly isn't perfect but I am grateful for there being a genuine choice on offer this time.

[Hammersmith harrier]

Regarding tuition fees there's a strong argument for investing in our young people - helps improve our skill base in the long term - its a sound investment in my opinion.  

Won't make the first bit of difference as to who goes to university, you still have to succeed in your education up to that point which is mainly children from middle class backgrounds.

[TRUSSMAN66]

Good..brave people died or got hurt last night and already it is...

20,000 police were cut under May or We have had enough now and are going for these people..

Really ??...Both parties should be ashamed of themselves.. ..

Show some class.

[navyblueshorts]

There's no other right wing option so I'm unlikely to ever change, UKIP have too many policies I disagree with.

So you only vote for a party if they are right wing?

Well yes I'm against left wing politics.

Me too, I prefer it when disabled people are too poor to live.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/commentisfree/video/2017/may/30/living-with-disabilities-youre-treated-worse-than-a-farm-animal-video

Just going to leave this here.

This is an incredibly difficult watch. I cant believe anyone can justify this.

With the greatest respect to this pretty harrowing video, it's one side of a story (in the Guardirad) and I don't think anyone is "justifying" it as fine are they? Still, must be entirely the Tories fault as they're 'evil'....

Talk about a nonsense post.

Who's fault are the cuts then, if not the Tories? Do you think that this woman did this to herself? It has to be one or the other.

...and conveniently ignore the issue re. one-sided story from a left-wing rag. If you want to see the World and its issues in simplistic black/white, carry on by all means.

You didn't answer the question. Who's fault is it that she has to live like that? Is it hers or the Tories'?

Conversely, you can't ignore the cuts that the disabled have suffered under the Tories? Care to justify them?

What question? There wasn't one originally. I can't believe you're so simplistic as to just assume "it's the Tories". Never mind...

I put it in bold for you seeing as you're having difficulties. I mean, there must be reason for this sudden increase in disabled poverty. It's obviously not the Tories and their slashing of disabled benefits. Must be something else.

I'm having difficulties? I said "originally". Here's a dictionary definition for you:

adverb from or in the beginning; at first

As for the Tories being the root of all evil, how about we have some nuanced, considered thinking about the '08 financial crash and Labour's role, for example, in putting this country in a situation where a departing Treasury minister leaves a note for the incoming Tory along the lines of "There's no money left!". Yes, I know it was a global crash, but maybe you should ask yourself why we were up such a creek when it was well known what was coming?
It's not a black/white issue, but if it's easier for you to get your head around by blaming your traditional Bogeyman, go ahead.

[TRUSSMAN66]

So a guy leaves a note as a joke and that's it.

Black Wednesday anyone ??

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Global crash - f*** Labour. Why didn't they tell the Americans too. They must have known it was happening. Snide red b*stards

[GSC]

Political point scoring going on today I see. Sad in the extreme

[TRUSSMAN66]

Black Wednesday..You and Navy would have to of heard about it..

To score points.

[navyblueshorts]

So a guy leaves a note as a joke and that's it.

Black Wednesday anyone ??

Global crash - f*** Labour. Why didn't they tell the Americans too. They must have known it was happening. Snide red b*stards

You're better than that. I didn't say it was Labour did I? What I implied was they oversaw the economy for ~12 years, p!ssed away money (like I have no doubt any other party would have done) and didn't take any notice of what I'm sure were enough warnings about property bubbles etc. What I was implying is that the sort of thing Pr4wn's banging on about is not entirely down to the Tories. Still, easier to reduce it to Labour = good; Tories = evil I guess.

[navyblueshorts]

Black Wednesday..You and Navy would have to of heard about it..

To score points.

I have heard of it. I remember it well. Not sure what your point is though....

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Global crash - f*** Labour. Why didn't they tell the Americans too. They must have known it was happening. Snide red b*stards

You're better than that. I didn't say it was Labour did I? What I implied was they oversaw the economy for ~12 years, p!ssed away money (like I have no doubt any other party would have done) and didn't take any notice of what I'm sure were enough warnings about property bubbles etc. What I was implying is that the sort of thing Pr4wn's banging on about is not entirely down to the Tories. Still, easier to reduce it to Labour = good; Tories = evil I guess.

'Twas hyperbole for effect, but the point was worth having clear because Labour did get tarred with it by many; there was blame thrown at them that really didn't have any place being so easily cast onto them.

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