England v Wales - let it all out thread

[yappysnap]

First topic message reminder :

To hopefully stop the usual suspects from ruining more threads, could both nations wums just throw all of their toys out of the pram on this one?

Two weeks until the game and already it's like a full moon at the crazy house.

Thanks in advance

[HammerofThunor]

Points difference.

Regarding the game, I've just seen England fail time and again when the pressure really comes on and I've seen nothing so far to change that. We still give stupid penalties away when put under pressure and Wales are really good at sustained pressure. By comfortable I mean 8+ margin without much real danger of a come back. Perhaps a last minute try, that doesn't mean anything as the game has already won, to make it closer. But not a tight finish, nor a hammering.

[mikey_dragon]

A no brainier. England play better with more Saracens and Quins players. Robshaw and Clifford at 6 and 7 is the best option I feel.

[Tattie Scones RRN]

It would be really good for the game if Wales beat England, then lost to Italy.

[englandglory4ever]

Mikey thinks he knows a lot about England rugby doesn't he. Or is he just a know nothing cocky Welshman? Probably the latter.

[beshocked]

no 7 & 1/2 to be honest I think the real leader was Billy, he might not talk much but his performances inspire others.


Griff I am surprised you think there's more of a chance of France beating England than Wales.

I have been more impressed by Wales than France so far.

You talk about clicking, when do you think Wales have ever "clicked" bar perhaps 2013 in the last few years? I think Wales are a good consistent side but I haven't believed the old cliche Wales can beat anyone on their day for some time. Beat England? Of course but anyone? No.

hammerofthunor you are correct. England give away stupid penalties time and again but if they rip up the script and don't? Who knows?

There is no doubt England will need to put in a good performance vs Wales but continuity wise England are in a better shape than vs Scotland in the first game.

I think the biggest tests will be how Farrell deals with Roberts, still unconvinced by Farrell at 12, how Billy deals with the Welsh backrow, I expect Lydiate the chopper will be busy. Strong set piece, if England can get on top at set piece.

One of the pluses for England vs Ireland was the disruption of the Irish lineout - both Itoje and Kruis did a good job there.

Of course I would stick with Itoje vs Wales. I personally thought he was England's best forward after Billy but then again I am biased.

Plus Launchbury hasn't been fully fit for 2 of England's games. No guarantee he'll be fully fit and firing vs Wales. A fully fit in form Launchbury is an asset but can we honestly say he has been so far? I don't think so.

[mikey_dragon]

Mikey thinks he knows a lot about England rugby doesn't he. Or is he just a know nothing cocky Welshman? Probably the latter.

Marler, Hartley/George, Cole, Kruis, Itoje, Robshaw, Clifford, Vunipola - best England pack currently available. I know more than you about England rugby. You're just a clueless person who jumped on the 2003 bandwagon. Have you stopped gloating yet?

[No 7&1/2]

Of course. We'd be in a pickle if we had 8 Billys (leadership wise) in the pack though.

Lydiate really needs to change his tackling technique, noticed he talked publically about being pulled for a no arms tackle, then gets done again this weekend. Refs will be looking.

[BamBam]

Perhaps Eddie may follow the example of his Antipodean roots and use the pre match build up to focus on Lydiate's tackling technique...

Like Marler's scrummaging, not necessarily illegal but could influence the referee.

Who is the ref for this game btw?

[englandglory4ever]

Mikey, when you stop gloating about the Wales one match wonder against England in 2013 I will stop gloating about being World Champions in 2003.

[beshocked]

no 7 & 1/2 imagine how many penalties we would give away if we had 4 Haskells and 4 Hartleys in the pack and 3 Cares and 4 Farrells in the backline!

Would be lucky to play a whole game with 15 men!

I am not saying Billy is a statesman or anything like that but his performances have helped raise confidence. He's not a leader in the traditional sense but then again he does his bit.

Just like the likes of Faletau and Roberts do for Wales. Big ball carriers who get their team on the front foot.

None of these players are penalty machines either.

mikey dragon that's a pretty good team though I would have Mako in at 1 to add another ball carrier plus George starting of course.

[RuggerRadge2611]

Anyone taking bets on how long it will be untill this thread gets locked?  

I will bet you a pint we get through today unscathed.

Mikey thinks he knows a lot about England rugby doesn't he. Or is he just a know nothing cocky Welshman? Probably the latter.

Marler, Hartley/George, Cole, Kruis, Itoje, Robshaw, Clifford, Vunipola - best England pack currently available. I know more than you about England rugby. You're just a clueless person who jumped on the 2003 bandwagon. Have you stopped gloating yet?

Totally should've taken you up on that bet Doc

[No 7&1/2]

Can't think of the Hartley pens. Did he give 4 away, seems a lot. The only ones that annoyed me were the late hit by Haskell and farrells neck roll as they were easily avoidable. Vunipola played very well again but Hartley is doing a very good job in the team and as captain at the moment. There was a moment where Haskell was binned where he just read the situation pushed Haskell away as Haskell was looking to speak his mind. Little things like that. constant talking to the team, good communication with the ref, good performance in general.

[LondonTiger]

Who is the ref for this game btw?

Craig Joubert

[englandglory4ever]

Thunor, nice to see a humble Englishman who is in touch with reality. I hope you can rub off on the likes of Hoonercat, Hammersmith and englandglory .

Mikey, depressing to see a cocky Welshman who has lost touch with reality and is sooo in touch with his cockiness.

[LondonTiger]

Mikey thinks he knows a lot about England rugby doesn't he. Or is he just a know nothing cocky Welshman? Probably the latter.

Marler, Hartley/George, Cole, Kruis, Itoje, Robshaw, Clifford, Vunipola - best England pack currently available. I know more than you about England rugby. You're just a clueless person who jumped on the 2003 bandwagon. Have you stopped gloating yet?

Totally should've taken you up on that bet Doc

A playground tantrum from a pair of pre-schoolers does not count.

[Recwatcher16]

Away from home Wales will simply apply their pressure game and wait for mistakes or soft penalties - which England suffer from regularly.

I would like to see Joseph given the ball to run at Davies but suspect Jones' England will play a 10 man game for 60 mins by which time England may either be chasing the game after a succession of Welsh three pointers or giving Tuilagi at 12 a run at Roberts with the Vunipola brothers in close attendance.

I wonder if Ewers will get a look in - he put himself about in the Exeter game on Sunday and would add even more beef to an already large back row.

With Hughes to come in the summer there will certainly be some further destructive ball carrying options. Against the real competition in the SH that really should be the traditional English forward approach which with the right fitness levels is the game the SH fear.

[beshocked]

no 7 & 1/2 fair enough if you thought Hartley was good, I didn't. I have no sympathy for Farrell or Haskell's poor discipline either.

Just unnecessary. It's the captain's job to keep his players in line, not join in the poor discipline stakes.

recwatcher16 why would England pick Ewers vs Wales?

The only change I would make is drop Haskell to the bench and start Clifford.

[TightHEAD]

I think Gethin Jenkins should be tested for performance enhancing drugs, for an OAP he put himself about vs France.

[TightHEAD]

How did Lydiate get away without seeing yellow vs France?

[R!skysports]

Who is the ref for this game btw?

Craig Joubert

[No9]

Thunor, nice to see a humble Englishman who is in touch with reality. I hope you can rub off on the likes of Hoonercat, Hammersmith and englandglory .

Mikey, depressing to see a cocky Welshman who has lost touch with reality and is sooo in touch with his cockiness.

Will you two shut the F*** UP!!!

You are BOTH like a pair of 5 year olds... its getting really tiring now...

Bickering like this is a reason I stopped posting here. I popped back during the 6 Nations hoping things would have changed... how stupid was I to even think it..

[Recwatcher16]

Beshocked - against Scotland Jones kept it tight as wary of Barclay and Hardie with Robshaw and Haskell smashing the second man to the tackle off the ruck.

Against Wales Faletau and Warburton would have another ball carrier to mark and stretch them out and Ewers fits that role more effectively than Robshaw or Haskell. I would concede a potential lack of balance but defences these days are able to cope with traditional 6,7&8's.
Oz are always innovative with their player base and wonder if England should try something different particularly with Itoje offering further back row ability at the breakdown.
As I say just a thought.

[Guest]

Griff I am surprised you think there's more of a chance of France beating England than Wales.

I have been more impressed by Wales than France so far.

You talk about clicking, when do you think Wales have ever "clicked" bar perhaps 2013 in the last few years? I think Wales are a good consistent side but I haven't believed the old cliche Wales can beat anyone on their day for some time. Beat England? Of course but anyone? No.

On the first point, I'm just going on the home and away factor(s). This will be a tight game I feel so the home advantage tips it towards England. I believe France are improving and given that they're at home and it's Le Crunch I think France could pull it off. If it was at HQ then it's England Grand Slam all the way for me, but away games will play a part here I reckon.

On the second point, I guess I meant more in attack. That's where we're lacking. We 'clicked' against Italy last year; we've clicked a few times against Aus in the last few years (not the WC game of course). In those previous Aus games we scored some really nice tries, but ended up losing. What I want to see is the attacking element click in order to compliment the defensive element that we've developed. We can't afford to just absorb pressure for 30 mins in the 2nd half like we did against France. England are more likely to come away with points. So the attack needs to click so that a) we hold onto possession and build the phases and don't turnover possession and b) we score more points than we have been doing of late. In terms of the cliché - it's crap. Something the media loves to jump on because Gatland once said that on our day 'we're a match for anyone'. It sort of holds true because we've had many many close games with teams higher ranked than us (apart from NZ), so in that sense we have matched them. So have other teams though, but no-one jumps on their head coach's comments so much! Your last comment - "Beat England? Of course but anyone? No". Yep, agree there too. But we're not playing anyone else...

[mikey_dragon]

Thunor, nice to see a humble Englishman who is in touch with reality. I hope you can rub off on the likes of Hoonercat, Hammersmith and englandglory .

Mikey, depressing to see a cocky Welshman who has lost touch with reality and is sooo in touch with his cockiness.

 
Will you two shut the F*** UP!!!

You are BOTH like a pair of 5 year olds... its getting really tiring now...

Bickering like this is a reason I stopped posting here. I popped back during the 6 Nations hoping things would have changed... how stupid was I to even think it..

Yet you posted a WUM thread recently. What a silly and angry little man you are. Stay off the site might be best?

[mikey_dragon]

Who is the ref for this game btw?

Craig Joubert

If true then Haskell can commit as many breakdown offences as he likes, he won't get pinged for it.

[beshocked]

Griff I agree home and away counts but I have not been impressed by a disorganised France so far. France away is always a danger but so are Wales wherever we play you.

Wales have consistently been a better side than France in the last few years.

I thought we should have closed out the game in the RWC vs you but we didn't and lost.

You say England are more likely to come up with points. Sadly against Ireland we didn't - only 6-3 at half time. England were clinical in the 2nd half though.

Wales I feel can exploit weaknesses in the England side better than Ireland,Italy and Scotland.

Notably Farrell at 12, Roberts as his opposite number worries me. Discipline wise, Wales I feel can punish us more than the others have. Ireland were pretty wasteful in the 2nd half.

Haskell,Robshaw and Billy is not a dream backrow. It's done it's job so far but Lydiate,Warburton and Faletau will be a tougher proposition in my opinion.

If Wales can neutralise Billy or if Billy gets injured it leaves England a bit vulnerable. Takes away our most potent ball carrier.

Wales are not an easy side to beat.

[doctor_grey]

Anyone taking bets on how long it will be untill this thread gets locked?  

I will bet you a pint we get through today unscathed.

Mikey thinks he knows a lot about England rugby doesn't he. Or is he just a know nothing cocky Welshman? Probably the latter.

Marler, Hartley/George, Cole, Kruis, Itoje, Robshaw, Clifford, Vunipola - best England pack currently available. I know more than you about England rugby. You're just a clueless person who jumped on the 2003 bandwagon. Have you stopped gloating yet?

Totally should've taken you up on that bet Doc

[No 7&1/2]

no 7 & 1/2 fair enough if you thought Hartley was good, I didn't. I have no sympathy for Farrell or Haskell's poor discipline either.

Just unnecessary. It's the captain's job to keep his players in line, not join in the poor discipline stakes.

recwatcher16 why would England pick Ewers vs Wales?

The only change I would make is drop Haskell to the bench and start Clifford.

What was Hartleys poor discipline?

[mikey_dragon]

So have other teams though, but no-one jumps on their head coach's comments so much! Your last comment - "Beat England? Of course but anyone? No". Yep, agree there too. But we're not playing anyone else...

Yeah, in previous weeks I've pointed out Jones' gob and asked why he has exemptions when Gatland hasn't? Fair question IMO, but I was dismissed as a WUM of course. Anyway that shouldn't be a problem with Jones' media ban (should it last).

[wrfc1980]

Did anyone else thing JJ looked a little bit sluggish against Ireland. He looked as though he was running through mud and didn't look like threatening the outside shoulders of the irish defence.

[GavCanDance]

[beshocked]

no 7 & 1/2 fair enough if you thought Hartley was good, I didn't. I have no sympathy for Farrell or Haskell's poor discipline either.

Just unnecessary. It's the captain's job to keep his players in line, not join in the poor discipline stakes.

recwatcher16 why would England pick Ewers vs Wales?

The only change I would make is drop Haskell to the bench and start Clifford.

What was Hartleys poor discipline?

no 7 & 1/2 the penalties he gave away. Captain's job to lead by example. Not encourage the likes of Farrell and Haskell.

[No 7&1/2]

I can't remember any pens he gave away though; what were they?

[hugehandoff]

For me England have made decent progress so far. In the RWC we had no areas of the game we could rely on. Now we have reverted to type and restored our traditional areas of strength in terms of scrums, lineouts and general forward play. The rolling maul did not happen against Ireland so that remains a work in progress. Add in a very good defence and England are at least a hard side to beat.

But as Graham Henry educated Argentina that you also need to score tries then this is England's problem area. We lacked accuracy and left many points out there. But at least we were creating chances. This area needs to improve dramatically to worry class opposition. I am not a fan of the Ford/Farrell axis and think Ford should be dropped. His poor form has been evident for some time and I would start Farrell and also Burrell who is back on form. Tuilagi off the bench.

The back row also needs something else and SCW advocates starting Clifford at 7 and moving Haskell to 6. I would be happy with either Robshaw or Haskell starting at 6 but think Clifford might be useful against Wales.

Overall lots to improve on.

As for Wales.....what a snore fest on Friday. Awesome defence, but so little in offense. But they clearly have the players, confidence and belief to win this match and I would expect a much improved performance from them.

But I fancy England to sneak a narrow win.

[No9]

Thunor, nice to see a humble Englishman who is in touch with reality. I hope you can rub off on the likes of Hoonercat, Hammersmith and englandglory .

Mikey, depressing to see a cocky Welshman who has lost touch with reality and is sooo in touch with his cockiness.

 
Will you two shut the F*** UP!!!

You are BOTH like a pair of 5 year olds... its getting really tiring now...

Bickering like this is a reason I stopped posting here. I popped back during the 6 Nations hoping things would have changed... how stupid was I to even think it..

Yet you posted a WUM thread recently. What a silly and angry little man you are. Stay off the site might be best?

is that your standard response...

[Breadvan]

I only saw the game from Ireland's first try onwards but on the highlights it looked like Hartley gave Haskell a gobfull as he ran off for 10 mins. Stupid, daft cheap shot. How does he think he can get away with it?
Injuries and potential citing aside I think both teams will remain unchanged.

[aucklandlaurie]

I only saw the game from Ireland's first try onwards  but on the highlights it looked like Hartley gave Haskell a gobfull as he ran off for 10 mins. Stupid, daft cheap shot. How does he think he can get away with it?
Injuries and potential citing aside I think both teams will remain unchanged.

Hes probably doing what his coach told him to do.

[mikey_dragon]

Thunor, nice to see a humble Englishman who is in touch with reality. I hope you can rub off on the likes of Hoonercat, Hammersmith and englandglory .

Mikey, depressing to see a cocky Welshman who has lost touch with reality and is sooo in touch with his cockiness.

 
Will you two shut the F*** UP!!!

You are BOTH like a pair of 5 year olds... its getting really tiring now...

Bickering like this is a reason I stopped posting here. I popped back during the 6 Nations hoping things would have changed... how stupid was I to even think it..

Yet you posted a WUM thread recently. What a silly and angry little man you are. Stay off the site might be best?

is that your standard response...

You posted a WUM thread recently and seem to be complaining to me when another poster insults me. You're carrying a bonehead logic which won't get you far if you're wishing to debate on here.

[No 7&1/2]

no 7 & 1/2 fair enough if you thought Hartley was good, I didn't. I have no sympathy for Farrell or Haskell's poor discipline either.

Just unnecessary. It's the captain's job to keep his players in line, not join in the poor discipline stakes.

recwatcher16 why would England pick Ewers vs Wales?

The only change I would make is drop Haskell to the bench and start Clifford.

What was Hartleys poor discipline?

no 7 & 1/2 the penalties he gave away. Captain's job to lead by example. Not encourage the likes of Farrell and Haskell.

Just looked it up, 2 penalties, 1 was the 'try'. The other one must have seriously annoyed you, what was it?

[No9]

You posted a WUM thread recently and seem to be complaining to me when another poster insults me. You're carrying a bonehead logic which won't get you far if you're wishing to debate on here.

Posted a WUM.. Nope, a satirical point maybe.. but no WUM...

As for complaining to you, that's a definite no.. I may have posted something in your defence if I felt you had been incorrectly targeted. But the way you are bickering with posters and now me, I'm starting to come to the conclusion that they have a point, and that you're sole goal is to argue and cause friction between posters for no reason expect your churlish desire to cause disharmony.

I know this isn't the last word on this matter, as just like a petulant 5 year old, you have to have the last word. So have it, as this is the last I intend to say on this matter...

[mikey_dragon]

Ta-ra then.

[Sidestep]

Quality debate going on here.... I think the bar has been set so high,intellectually speaking that its scaring people away..

[majesticimperialman]

Ta-ra then.

Ta-ra mikey.

[lostinwales]

However much we complain about Mikey the arguments he gets into with the other Welsh fans tend to be even worse

[beshocked]

no 7 & 1/2 fair enough if you thought Hartley was good, I didn't. I have no sympathy for Farrell or Haskell's poor discipline either.

Just unnecessary. It's the captain's job to keep his players in line, not join in the poor discipline stakes.

recwatcher16 why would England pick Ewers vs Wales?

The only change I would make is drop Haskell to the bench and start Clifford.

What was Hartleys poor discipline?

no 7 & 1/2 the penalties he gave away. Captain's job to lead by example. Not encourage the likes of Farrell and Haskell.

Just looked it up, 2 penalties, 1 was the 'try'. The other one must have seriously annoyed you, what was it?

no 7 & 1/2 I don't know but to be fair to Hartley he shouldn't have been penalised for the non try as it wasnt double movement. I would argue he should have scored though.

I guess that shows stats aren't everything. I didn't watch Hartley like a hawk so didn't see the other penalty. Perhaps you can stoicly defend him and find that the other penalty was unfair too?

[RubyGuby]

Ok - I'm gonna give this one shot and that's it - A potential winner takes all game awaits in 2 weeks. IMO its a difficult call and I'll be going for a 21 all draw in our 606 Comp. Very little between both the teams with perhaps home advantage being the key variable. Set piece seems pretty even and the refs interpretation will be key here. Maybe the side with the best discipline will edge it. Up front a relatively settled welsh side against a similar English 8 and hence not much too choose apart from technique. Charteris will return for this one and maybe England may change 1 or 2 personnel in the back row and 2nd row respectively. Wales will recall Rhys Webb to the bench for this one and he would be an asset if we need to get the backs moving. Similarly, Eddie might opt for Care. Intriguing match ups at 10 and midfield and I'm expecting wales to vary it a bit here. England look more dynamic behind with the welsh having the power edge so a classic battle awaits and to the victors the spoils. These big games have gone Wales's way recently when there's a title or Triple Crown on it but maybe you have to consider the Lancaster Factor as being partly responsible for that. Eddie seems to be choosing the right players - Will this day just be a bit too soon for them remains to be seen. It should be a classic with very little if anything between 2 contrasting sides (Not that contrasting actually but it reads better that way) - Good luck to all.

[No 7&1/2]

Don't know beshocked, did have a quick look as I couldn't remember and I saw him around Haskell and felt it was very unfair to say he encouraged that ill discipline. You're the one who seemed to have an issue with the 2 now 1 penalty, just thought you'd be able to give detail. it comes across as looking for issues to be honest so you can campaign for George.

[TightHEAD]

Can't believe my post about Gethin got reported, too many sensitive souls here, for heavens sake!

Its not like I mentioned how a high percentage of the athletes who are banned for using performance enhancing drugs in the UK are low level Welsh rugby players is it!

[beshocked]

Rubyguby the triple crown was on in 2014 and 2015, don't remember Wales winning either of them. It's been 3-2 to Wales since 2012.

Last 10 - 5-5 wins each, evenly matched.

If best discipline wins the match then Wales have won already... England have had worst discipline in 3 matches but have come out top each time.

If England get anywhere close to parity in terms of discipline I think they'll win.

no 7 & 1/2 I do think George has been treated poorly by England but my scrutiny of Hartley because I think he's getting praised for doing a mediocre job. I still think George would do a better job if the England management ever showed trust in him by starting him.

The same people who were criticising Itoje and questioning his decision to be picked are now praising him. Calling it a masterful move by Eddie Jones, picking one of the most talented youngsters in England because your first choice is injured isn't a difficult move to make. Itoje is one of those who players was going to step up anyway - he has at every level.

The doubters of Itoje won't eat humble pie though.
England have taken so long to pick him. At least they've started him now, will they keep faith in him or bring back Launchbury?

[mikey_dragon]

Can't believe my post about Gethin got reported, too many sensitive souls here, for heavens sake!

Its not like I mentioned how a high percentage of the athletes who are banned for using performance enhancing drugs in the UK are low level Welsh rugby players is it!

You think that's sensitive? I would disagree. Sensitive is when a poster complains about me saying that Launchbury is overrated. What's worse is that the reporter is likely one of the ones who has said AWJ is overrated.

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