England v Wales - let it all out thread

[yappysnap]

First topic message reminder :

To hopefully stop the usual suspects from ruining more threads, could both nations wums just throw all of their toys out of the pram on this one?

Two weeks until the game and already it's like a full moon at the crazy house.

Thanks in advance

[beshocked]

I like this thread. England will win in some style if Eddie is right. He says it was a step up against Ireland and it will be even better against Wales. The Irish mid field was as big if not bigger than Wales and was not a problem.  North never gets the ball so he's out of the game. Cuthbert is well, Cuthbert. So no real worries there. Our biggest problem is giving kickable penalties away which we are quite good at unfortunately. We should score 4 or 5 nice tries but Wales could kick 6 penalties if we don't tighten up. But on balance a clear win for England.

4/5 nice tries against the best defence in NH rugby?

You are the same englandgloryforever that thinks Sam Burgess was the answer for England's midfield and had potential to be a world class centre?

We'll be fine i think.

I think you'll find that the current best defence in NH rugby is England's. Less points and tries conceded than Wales so far in the 6 nations.

Don't get me wrong I think Wales have a very good defence but England's defence is much improved with Gustard in charge instead of Farrell Sr.

recwatcher16 Roberts doesn't need to pass to be a threat. He's a very dangerous player and a talisman for Wales in the backline.

The match ups I am most worried about as an England fan are Haskell vs Warburton and Farrell vs Roberts. Warburton and Roberts are two Welsh players I would happily see in an English jersey if it was possible.

[gregortree]

I like this thread. England will win in some style if Eddie is right. He says it was a step up against Ireland and it will be even better against Wales. The Irish mid field was as big if not bigger than Wales and was not a problem.  North never gets the ball so he's out of the game. Cuthbert is well, Cuthbert. So no real worries there. Our biggest problem is giving kickable penalties away which we are quite good at unfortunately. We should score 4 or 5 nice tries but Wales could kick 6 penalties if we don't tighten up. But on balance a clear win for England.

4/5 nice tries against the best defence in NH rugby?

You are the same englandgloryforever that thinks Sam Burgess was the answer for England's midfield and had potential to be a world class centre?

We'll be fine i think.

 Are you the same Gwlad who predicted an Ireland victory of ~ 3-29 at Twickenham ? As to defence, England have conceded least points and least tries this tourney, so currently best defence in NH this year.
 Wales look pretty leaky by comparison judging by the stats.
Love to know your prediction for the next Twickenham game.

[RubyGuby]

I predict a RIOT Gregor !!!!! - Especially after the RWC scenario which must be haunting your boys and posters on here like a mystical Ghoul that you know is in the room but there's nothing you can do about it apart from focussing on the positives and latching on to the sound bites!! - We call it Phobic Avoidance in the trade -

[Breadvan]

Similar to the 2014 game. Eng at home, media hype about "revenge" from the previous game, Joubert reffing.

[beshocked]

Rubguby England have a golden opportunity to put the RWC failure behind them. Beating Wales would put England on the right path to redemption.

It's not about revenge, it's about growth and progress.

It helps that we have a new coaching set up, new young talent like Daly,Clifford and Itoje.

The RWC scenario will only haunt us if we don't capitalise on the positives of a new set up.

Wales have been the same team for the last few years, same old coaches, same old results.

Under Lancaster, England were the bridesmaids never the bride.

England have an opportunity to be better. Now's the time to grasp the opportunity.

[englandglory4ever]

England are underdogs going in to this one. The mighty Welsh are ranked 4th and right up there with the SH sides. (Said that with tongue in cheek). Poor old lowly England will be straining at the bit to prove that they are better than Wales and that the RWC fluke was just that. The chariot will be rolling and ready to roll right over Wales. Watch out Wales we are coming to getcha. Swing low.. You know how it goes.

[RubyGuby]

Come on little fishys bite bite bite (said with tongue in cheek)

[Heaf]

I'll tell you what's annoying me most of all - the use of less and least instead of fewer and fewest ... phew got that off my chest

[lostinwales]

I think after we have completed the GS we'll have to start talks with the rugby championship as obviously the NH teams no longer hold sufficient challenge for us.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I'll tell you what's annoying me most of all - the use of less and least instead of fewer and fewest ... phew got that off my chest

You beat me to it!

[mikey_dragon]

I just don't see how we can beat England - we should be losing by 60 points. They have the best players, the best defence, the best attack, the best clubs, the worst fans, the gobbiest coach, the crappest stadium - let's also not forget 2003. That will spur them on no end like it does every year...

[Breadvan]

I expect to be 60+pts at least. A Mike brown hat trick with exuberant celebrations.  Sush gesture to the Welsh fans, wiping his backside on a picture of kelly Jones etc. In fact England will be a so much control, the water carrier will be bringing on bottles of Stella..

[mikey_dragon]

It's interesting you think that Breadvan when I reflect on some earlier comments by an England supporter:
"England have given away more penalties, received more yellow cards, missed more tackles, lost more lineouts, lost more rucks, conceded more turnovers, made fewer passes, made fewer offloads, beaten fewer defenders.

Only points where England have been better, more distance per carry, more clean breaks, and lost fewer scrums. If we lose Billy...we're fecked.

I think Wales are going to win, and win reasonably comfortably. Not 33-0 (or whatever the score was) but not a close game come the end."

There's a lot of talk about Wales being one dimensional. But all England can do is pass the ball to Billy Vunipola and hope for the best, that's beyond one dimensional!

[funnyExiledScot]

It's interesting you think that Breadvan when I reflect on some earlier comments by an England supporter:
"England have given away more penalties, received more yellow cards, missed more tackles, lost more lineouts, lost more rucks, conceded more turnovers, made fewer passes, made fewer offloads, beaten fewer defenders.

Only points where England have been better, more distance per carry, more clean breaks, and lost fewer scrums. If we lose Billy...we're fecked.

I think Wales are going to win, and win reasonably comfortably. Not 33-0 (or whatever the score was) but not a close game come the end."

There's a lot of talk about Wales being one dimensional. But all England can do is pass the ball to Billy Vunipola and hope for the best, that's beyond one dimensional!

That's unfair. Sometimes they throw the ball to Jonathan Joseph as well.

[BamBam]

You're both forgetting when the opposition kindly kick it to Brown, Watson or Nowell

If it wasn't for that generosity, the poor lads would freeze to death, can you imagine how much kicking of heads Brown would do then?!

[lostinwales]

I don't think Billy V is at all one dimensional. He seems to extend into several dimensions

[LondonTiger]

You're both forgetting when the opposition kindly kick it to Brown, Watson or Nowell

If it wasn't for that generosity, the poor lads would freeze to death, can you imagine how much kicking of heads Brown would do then?!

To be fair though we could mention Plisson kicking the ball to North for the only try thank the lord he did though as with the amount of passes JD2 gives Georgie Porgie would be banging his against the wall - and with his concussion record that is not a good idea.

[funnyExiledScot]

You're both forgetting when the opposition kindly kick it to Brown, Watson or Nowell

If it wasn't for that generosity, the poor lads would freeze to death, can you imagine how much kicking of heads Brown would do then?!

To be fair though we could mention Plisson kicking the ball to North for the only try  thank the lord he did though as with the amount of passes JD2 gives  Georgie Porgie would be banging his against the wall - and with his concussion record that is not a good idea.

He doesn't need to pass. He has an "educated left foot" apparently.

[mikey_dragon]

Personally I've always thought JD2 was a bit overrated and recent games just confirm that for me. Roberts and Morgan is a midfield I would like to see a lot more of.

[Hoonercat]

There's a lot of talk about Wales being one dimensional. But all England can do is pass the ball to Billy Vunipola and hope for the best, that's beyond one dimensional!

I can smell the fear from here, the Welsh are so terrified of Billy V that the likes of Haskell and Kruis carrying doesn't even register with them.

[lostinwales]

You're both forgetting when the opposition kindly kick it to Brown, Watson or Nowell

If it wasn't for that generosity, the poor lads would freeze to death, can you imagine how much kicking of heads Brown would do then?!

To be fair though we could mention Plisson kicking the ball to North for the only try  thank the lord he did though as with the amount of passes JD2 gives  Georgie Porgie would be banging his against the wall - and with his concussion record that is not a good idea.

He doesn't need to pass. He has an "educated left foot" apparently.

I guess Brown's left foot went to a different school

[RubyGuby]

Former prop Jeff Probyn is surprised Mike Brown was not cited following England's Six Nations win over Ireland.

Ireland scrum-half Conor Murray needed stitches after Brown attempted to kick the ball from his grasp.

The decision not to cite Brown means he can play against Wales in a crucial match on 12 March.

"I am surprised that he hasn't been cited but in reality he's got away with it," said Probyn, who made 37 appearances for England.

"I was at Twickenham and the big screen showed it over again and everyone was a little bit puzzled why Danny Care, not Brown, got yellow carded; it should have been a straight red it was reckless at best."

[mikey_dragon]

There's a lot of talk about Wales being one dimensional. But all England can do is pass the ball to Billy Vunipola and hope for the best, that's beyond one dimensional!

I can smell the fear from here, the Welsh are so terrified of Billy V that the likes of Haskell and Kruis carrying doesn't even register with them.

The fear will be in Billy V's eyes on the eve of his meeting with Chopper.

[lostinwales]

Former prop Jeff Probyn is surprised Mike Brown was not cited following England's Six Nations win over Ireland.

Ireland scrum-half Conor Murray needed stitches after Brown attempted to kick the ball from his grasp.

The decision not to cite Brown means he can play against Wales in a crucial match on 12 March.

"I am surprised that he hasn't been cited but in reality he's got away with it," said Probyn, who made 37 appearances for England.

"I was at Twickenham and the big screen showed it over again and everyone was a little bit puzzled why Danny Care, not Brown, got yellow carded; it should have been a straight red it was reckless at best."

Fascinating because nobody had brought that up before. Maybe you should start another thread on it elsewhere, or just find a way to shoehorn it into another 50 threads instead.

[Jimpy]

I just don't see how we can beat England - we should be losing by 60 points. They have the best players, the best defence, the best attack, the best clubs, the worst fans, the gobbiest coach, the crappest stadium - let's also not forget 2003. That will spur them on no end like it does every year...

Lets face it, it wouldn't be the first time England had done that to Wales now would it.

[LondonTiger]

You're both forgetting when the opposition kindly kick it to Brown, Watson or Nowell

If it wasn't for that generosity, the poor lads would freeze to death, can you imagine how much kicking of heads Brown would do then?!

To be fair though we could mention Plisson kicking the ball to North for the only try  thank the lord he did though as with the amount of passes JD2 gives  Georgie Porgie would be banging his against the wall - and with his concussion record that is not a good idea.

He doesn't need to pass. He has an "educated left foot" apparently.

I guess Brown's left foot went to a different school

I always found it amusing when they described David Beckham as having an educated right foot. I had this image of his right foot going to Eton but his brain to the local reform school.

[mikey_dragon]

No, but the point is how can Wales even compete with such a world-beating team. BTW, who's the team who have always been drubbed on the eve of a grand slam?

[beshocked]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/35653445

This is an example of the great Welsh attack... Plisson even helps North too.

Wales' most potent weapon against England has been exploiting players out of position.

You'll be thanking the rugby gods that you'll get that opportunity again with Farrell at 12 and Haskell at 7.

As for Lydiate, a flanker needs to do more than just tackle. Still a player I am not a big fan of.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

No, but the point is how can Wales even compete with such a world-beating team. BTW, who's the team who have always been drubbed on the eve of a grand slam?

No team has played on the eve of a Grand Slam.

[LondonTiger]

No, but the point is how can Wales even compete with such a world-beating team. BTW, who's the team who have always been drubbed on the eve of a grand slam?

No team has played on the eve of a Grand Slam.

ah well, it is rumoured that Will Carling was playing an away fixture in Kensington Gardens on the eve of a Grand Slam

[Luckless Pedestrian]

That was Wales v England, too...

[LondonTiger]

That was Wales v England, too...

Very true.


and apparently the rucking would have made Mike Brown blush.

[GavCanDance]

As for Lydiate, a flanker needs to do more than just tackle. Still a player I am not a big fan of.

Who would you replace him with though? The Tips/Warbs pairing didn't really set the world alight... I'm of the opinion that Dan was sorely missed in our first 2 games. Tips seems to achieve more as an impact player.

[Breadvan]

As for Lydiate, a flanker needs to do more than just tackle. Still a player I am not a big fan of.

Who would you replace him with though?  The Tips/Warbs pairing didn't really set the world alight...  I'm of the opinion that Dan was sorely missed in our first 2 games.  Tips seems to achieve more as an impact player.

James king. Not a pish take..

[Breadvan]

It's interesting you think that Breadvan when I reflect on some earlier comments by an England supporter:
"England have given away more penalties, received more yellow cards, missed more tackles, lost more lineouts, lost more rucks, conceded more turnovers, made fewer passes, made fewer offloads, beaten fewer defenders.

Only points where England have been better, more distance per carry, more clean breaks, and lost fewer scrums. If we lose Billy...we're fecked.

I think Wales are going to win, and win reasonably comfortably. Not 33-0 (or whatever the score was) but not a close game come the end."

There's a lot of talk about Wales being one dimensional. But all England can do is pass the ball to Billy Vunipola and hope for the best, that's beyond one dimensional!

If all England can do is give the ball to Billy V then all Wales can do is hoof it away! Both sides are more than capable of mixing it up.

[beshocked]

Gavcandance fair point but I think Wales need to look for a replacement, if not in the short term certainly in the long term.

I just think Lydiate is one of those players who holds you back. A limited player who does one role well. Need to aspire for more than just trying to stop the opposition.

I feel the same with Haskell, he's okay but I think England need to progress. Someone who has a bit more to his game.

I look at teams and see where I think they can improve. 6 for Wales is one as 12 and 7 are for England.

Wales need a back up 8 too because you're screwed if Faletau is injured, I guess England are too in the short term if Billy goes down too but with the likes of Hughes and Ewers ready to make their impact in the future we should be okay.

[mikey_dragon]

No, but the point is how can Wales even compete with such a world-beating team. BTW, who's the team who have always been drubbed on the eve of a grand slam?

No team has played on the eve of a Grand Slam.

2011 Ireland vs England, Eng need win to get the grand slam - not sure if it was the last game of the tournament. Get drubbed but still take the championship (the last time that they did take it).

2013 Wales vs England, Eng need win to get the grand slam, last game of the tournament. Get drubbed, and WALES take the championship.

England expected to win both games.

The 07 RWC warm-up was a second string coached by Gareth Jenkins, and we were pretty bad back then... Still, if an England fan can gloat they'll gloat. The mighty Italy sure did threaten this year...

[lostinwales]

That was Wales v England, too...

I wonder who ca.. err.. who won?

[GavCanDance]

Beshocked - I agree to an extent.  There are too many Welsh players who have been moulded into 1 trick ponies by the current coaching outfit.

Roberts is more than just a wrecking ball.  Halfpenny is more than just a kicker.  Chopper is more than just a tackler.  There's a definite pattern of Gatland using specific players for specific roles - obviously their main strength, which is why we have enjoyed a fair amount of success, but I (like many) would really like to see more.

James Davies and (as Breadvan mentioned) James King are certainly ones for the future, but probably don't fit into the Gatland plan as it currently stands. I haven't really seen any evidence of this new expansive game that Wales are tying to play so far...

[Jimpy]

No, but the point is how can Wales even compete with such a world-beating team. BTW, who's the team who have always been drubbed on the eve of a grand slam?

No team has played on the eve of a Grand Slam.

2011 Ireland vs England, Eng need win to get the grand slam - not sure if it was the last game of the tournament. Get drubbed but still take the championship (the last time that they did take it).

2013 Wales vs England, Eng need win to get the grand slam, last game of the tournament. Get drubbed, and WALES take the championship.

England expected to win both games.

The 07 RWC warm-up was a second string coached by Gareth Jenkins, and we were pretty bad back then... Still, if an England fan can gloat they'll gloat. The mighty Italy sure did threaten this year...

No 6N team has ever played, won, been beaten or drubbed on the 'eve of a Grand Slam'. Is that really so hard to understand?

[RubyGuby]

Beshocked - I agree to an extent.  There are too many Welsh players who have been moulded into 1 trick ponies by the current coaching outfit.

Roberts is more than just a wrecking ball.  Halfpenny is more than just a kicker.  Chopper is more than just a tackler.  There's a definite pattern of Gatland using specific players for specific roles - obviously their main strength, which is why we have enjoyed a fair amount of success, but I (like many) would really like to see more.

James Davies and (as Breadvan mentioned) James King are certainly ones for the future, but probably don't fit into the Gatland plan as it currently stands.  I haven't really seen any evidence of this new expansive game that Wales are tying to play so far...

I think we need to give Gatland some more credit here, he has asked Lydiate to step up this year and carry the ball into contact more to get over the gain line. If you watch his game he has been doing this to good effect and is becoming another ball carrying option.

[mikey_dragon]

No, but the point is how can Wales even compete with such a world-beating team. BTW, who's the team who have always been drubbed on the eve of a grand slam?

No team has played on the eve of a Grand Slam.

2011 Ireland vs England, Eng need win to get the grand slam - not sure if it was the last game of the tournament. Get drubbed but still take the championship (the last time that they did take it).

2013 Wales vs England, Eng need win to get the grand slam, last game of the tournament. Get drubbed, and WALES take the championship.

England expected to win both games.

The 07 RWC warm-up was a second string coached by Gareth Jenkins, and we were pretty bad back then... Still, if an England fan can gloat they'll gloat. The mighty Italy sure did threaten this year...

No 6N team has ever played, won, been beaten or drubbed on the 'eve of a Grand Slam'. Is that really so hard to understand?

Choked in 2011, choked in 2013. Will 2016 be any different gimpy?

[englandglory4ever]

Guppy makes me smile. He keeps trying to make a sow's purse out of a pig's ear.

[Breadvan]

Beshocked - I agree to an extent.  There are too many Welsh players who have been moulded into 1 trick ponies by the current coaching outfit.

Roberts is more than just a wrecking ball.  Halfpenny is more than just a kicker.  Chopper is more than just a tackler.  There's a definite pattern of Gatland using specific players for specific roles - obviously their main strength, which is why we have enjoyed a fair amount of success, but I (like many) would really like to see more.

James Davies and (as Breadvan mentioned) James King are certainly ones for the future, but probably don't fit into the Gatland plan as it currently stands.  I haven't really seen any evidence of this new expansive game that Wales are tying to play so far...

My Ospreys hat on, James King is quality and one of our best players, well before DL arrived. Personally if Lydiate is ever injured, I'd plug JK straight in instead of moving the backrow around.

[Jimpy]

No, but the point is how can Wales even compete with such a world-beating team. BTW, who's the team who have always been drubbed on the eve of a grand slam?

No team has played on the eve of a Grand Slam.

2011 Ireland vs England, Eng need win to get the grand slam - not sure if it was the last game of the tournament. Get drubbed but still take the championship (the last time that they did take it).

2013 Wales vs England, Eng need win to get the grand slam, last game of the tournament. Get drubbed, and WALES take the championship.

England expected to win both games.

The 07 RWC warm-up was a second string coached by Gareth Jenkins, and we were pretty bad back then... Still, if an England fan can gloat they'll gloat. The mighty Italy sure did threaten this year...

No 6N team has ever played, won, been beaten or drubbed on the 'eve of a Grand Slam'. Is that really so hard to understand?

Choked in 2011, choked in 2013. Will 2016 be any different gimpy?

It may or may not be. Still, if you want to talk about choking, lets talk about the Welsh record v SH opposition.....

It doesn't alter the fact that no 6N team has ever played, won, been beaten or drubbed on the 'eve of a Grand Slam' - so please do save your energy - you'll need it to blow up your boyfriend later.

[mikey_dragon]

England's recent record isn't great against SH opposition, neither is their record in the 6 Nations. This is why I have no idea why they always gloat and always lay into Wales. Also, pointing out this hypocrisy labels you as an anti-English wum.

Crap comeback as well btw, something I'd expect to hear in high school. Well done.

[Breadvan]

National sides certainly don't like England turning up at their house to claim a slam/title in recent times. 2011, Banahan in the centre. 2013, Mike brown on the wing, Tom Wood at 8. Good grief..

[funnyExiledScot]

Beshocked - I agree to an extent.  There are too many Welsh players who have been moulded into 1 trick ponies by the current coaching outfit.

Roberts is more than just a wrecking ball.  Halfpenny is more than just a kicker.  Chopper is more than just a tackler.  There's a definite pattern of Gatland using specific players for specific roles - obviously their main strength, which is why we have enjoyed a fair amount of success, but I (like many) would really like to see more.

James Davies and (as Breadvan mentioned) James King are certainly ones for the future, but probably don't fit into the Gatland plan as it currently stands.  I haven't really seen any evidence of this new expansive game that Wales are tying to play so far...

James Davies is an outstanding talent. He seems to be awesome every time I see him play. I wonder whether he'd be a better partner to Warburton than Lydiate or Tipuric? More mobile and dynamic than Lydiate, but rolling up his sleeves and getting a bit more "stuck in" than Tipuric?

[beshocked]

mikey dragon depends what you mean by isn't great.

In the last 4 6 nations England have lost 4 games. That's 4 losses in 20 games - 16/20 wins/losses - 80% win rate. Is that poor?

If you include this 6 nations it's 19/23.

I admit our record against SH opposition isn't great but we don't need to delve too far back in history to find a victory over NZ. Our record against SA is poor but our record vs Australia in recent years have seen us be relatively evenly matched. Australia have the current bragging rights of course but we'll see how long that lasts.

We England fans are realistic, we know there's plenty of work to do if we want to be the best in the world again.

Gavcandance if you believe it's the coaching that's the problem then why don't Wales tweak the coaching set up a bit? E.g. get rid of Howley. Bring in new blood.

[mikey_dragon]

beshocked 80% is decent. No tournament wins though, so not really in a position to gloat or spend time poking at other teams like Wales, which is what the majority of England supporters do unfortunately.

Yes England's recent record against the SH is slightly better than ours, but I expect us to notch up some wins against NZ this summer . Whilst your record against Aus is better than ours, our record against SA is better than yours.... But this sounds petty now so I'll leave it there. I'm sure you can understand the point I was making with this and my previous comment.

Also on that last point I can assure you the majority of fans I speak to would love to be rid of Howley and McBryde. If we had done I doubt our games against Ireland and France this year would have been any less tight, it's just the way recent matches against these teams pan out.

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