QF2: New Zealand v France, 17 October

by **George Carlin** Mon 12 Oct 2015, 7:06 am

NEW ZEALAND v FRANCE

17 October 2015
KO: 20:00 BST (UTC+01)
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff

Live on telly

Ref: Nigel Owens (Wales)
ARs: Jaco Peyper (South Africa) and John Lacey (Ireland)
TMO: Shaun Veldsman (South Africa)

A. Head to Head

55 Played 55
42 Won 12
1 Drawn 1
12 Lost 42
1,345 Points 713

B. Recent Form

9 November 2013
Stade de France, Saint-Denis
19 – 26 to New Zealand

22 June 2013
Yarrow Stadium, New Plymouth
24 – 9 to New Zealand

15 June 2013
Rugby League Park, Christchurch
30 – 0 to New Zealand

8 June 2013
Eden Park, Auckland
23 – 13 to New Zealand

23 October 2011
Eden Park, Auckland
8 – 7 to New Zealand

24 September 2011
Eden Park, Auckland
37 – 17 to New Zealand

28 November 2009
Stade Vélodrome, Marseille
12 – 39 to New Zealand

20 June 2009
Westpac Stadium, Wellington
14 – 10 to New Zealand

13 June 2009
Carisbrook, Dunedin
22 – 27 to France

6 October 2007
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff, Wales
18 – 20 to France

C. TEAMS:

NEW ZEALAND
QF2: New Zealand v France, 17 October Daniel10

QF2: New Zealand v France, 17 October Daniel10

Ben Smith; Nehe Milner-Skudder, Conrad Smith, Ma'a Nonu, Julian Savea; Dan Carter, Aaron Smith; Wyatt Crockett, Dane Coles, Owen Franks, Brodie Retallick, Sam Whitelock, Jerome Kaino, Richie McCaw (capt), Kieran Read.

Replacements: Keven Mealamu, Joe Moody, Charlie Faumuina, Victor Vito, Sam Cane, Tawera Kerr-Barlow, Beauden Barrett, Sonny Bill Williams

FRANCE
QF2: New Zealand v France, 17 October Elodie10

QF2: New Zealand v France, 17 October Elodie10

Scott Spedding; Noa Nakaitaci, Alexandre Dumoulin, Wesley Fofana, Brice Dulin; Frederic Michalak, Morgan Parra; Eddy Ben Arous, Guilhem Guirado, Rabah Slimani, Pascal Pape, Yoann Maestri, Thierry Dusautoir (capt), Bernard Le Roux, Louis Picamoles.

Replacements: Dimitri Szarzewski, Vincent Debaty, Nicolas Mas, Damien Chouly, Yannick Nyanga, Rory Kockott, Remi Tales, Mathieu Bastareaud

by maestegmafia Mon 12 Oct 2015, 7:44 am

You couldn't have scripted a sequel any better could you...

New Zealand vs France, quarter final, Millenium Stadium Cardiff.

Now is the time when the Kiwis can banish their hurt from the 2007 RWC.

by aucklandlaurie Mon 12 Oct 2015, 7:55 am

Yes, Wales do seem to get more than their fair share of World Cup games.

by **George Carlin** Mon 12 Oct 2015, 8:00 am

Absolutely Maes.

Two articles in the NZ Herald make this point, Wayne Barnes getting the honour of an article all of his own!:

This is the worst possible draw for All Blacks - and the best for fans
12:33 PM Monday Oct 12, 2015

Forget 1999 and 2007. It's 2011 which should scare All Black supporters.

Sports lovers, hold on to your hats. The quarter-final match against France in Cardiff, and all the history that goes with it, is what great World Cup contests are all about.

Sport is a movable feast but in the rugby tournament we keep coming back to the same delicious table. The All Blacks may claim that the past is just that, but not the rest of us.

France and World Cups equal glory and disaster. And if you love an epic, and can get over the notion that the All Blacks have to win every World Cup, it's time to revel in what we are about to receive, whatever the outcome.

Make no mistake - meeting France in a World Cup quarterfinal is among the worst possible draws for the All Blacks.

The French have a history of upsetting the All Blacks and will be charged up after ordinary efforts in the pool games. The All Blacks meanwhile have not been tested properly while allegedly fiddling about in third gear, and don't know the French the way they know their southern hemisphere opponents.

This clash in Cardiff is a 50-50 call for my money.

In days past, and their 1999 World Cup blitz against the All Blacks is the prime example, outbreaks of blistering attack typified French rugby. Sweeping moves would appear from under the carpet. Backs and forwards united, guided by something French that we don't totally understand.

But that was before bus loads of coaches, mental skills development psycho-analysis life gurus, Olympic class weightlifters and laptop junkies got hold of rugby players. The chances of anybody launching the sort of sustained assault that France conjured out of nowhere against the 1999 All Blacks are close to zero. Top level test rugby can't be played like that anymore.

But France are still more than capable of disorienting the World Cup favourites in other ways. And the previous so-called disasters will help fertilise the seeds of doubt in the New Zealand camp and on the field especially if things don't go their way.

France are being portrayed as a team in decline but so are the All Blacks. Nehe Milner-Skudder has added fizz, and Ben Smith looks raring to go. But many of their starters are veterans over the hill or not in best form.

History, history, history. It is all over this game, and the 2011 final victory hardly calms the nerves.

Many thought the 2011 showdown would be a cake walk for the All Blacks at Eden Park, a ground where opponents fear to tread. This view was largely reached because France were out of form and in open disarray. There was a split between coach Marc Lievremont and the squad - he even criticised players as "spoiled brats" for going out on the town after beating Wales in the semifinal.

"(They are)always complaining, always whining and they've been at me for four years," he said.

His next words are more significant though.

"It seems to be our way of functioning. I also told them I have a lot of affection for them," he said.

Despite the setting and the build up, France turned up with tremendous, unforgettable force and were not even disrupted by an early All Black try at Fortress Eden Park. Maybe the French will conjure up an argument among themselves this week. But don't be fooled. The All Blacks often draw the best out of France, whatever the circumstances.

and

They wouldn't, would they? Fears All Blacks will get referee Wayne Barnes for quarter final against France
8:19 AM Monday Oct 12, 2015

Ali Williams says the All Blacks would embrace the appointment of Wayne Barnes to their "Cardiff Revisited" quarter final against France - but Sir Graham Henry isn't so sure.

The referee for Sunday morning's knockout match at Millennium Stadium will become known in the next 24 hours.

Any appointment of Barnes will create a mirror replica of the circumstances Henry and the All Blacks found themselves in eight years ago when they suffered a calamitous exit from the tournament.

Same team. Same stage of the tournament. Same stadium. Same referee.
You can almost hear the nation's knees playing cymbals now. The final touch of adding Barnes to the mix may be too much for the faint-hearted.

But if that's so among New Zealand rugby fans, Williams, among the players vanquished that night in 2007, says it's not so of this current crop of men in black.

Williams, writing last week in the NZ Herald, has already talked of how Richie McCaw's men would not be intimidated by the scenario they find themselves in and will actually welcome the opportunity to bury the '07 and French hoodoos once and for all.
But Henry didn't seem so sure in discussing the prospect of the controversial English referee being appointed to the All Blacks-France match.

When Newstalk ZB host Tony Veitch put it to Henry that it might be a good thing if Barnes gained the match, he got a jocular response but with an undertone.

"I don't know if I would go that far," the 2011 Cup-winning coach said.
When Veitch suggested Barnes was now a top referee, Henry replied: "I think there's one or two that might be a little bit better but we won't go into any more detail than that."

While the tournament's top performing referees are set to control the four quarter finals, and Barnes is among them, it's less likely he will be given the whistle for Sunday's Cardiff encounter.

It would be unnecessarily provocative for World Rugby to appoint Barnes to the match and it is more likely that he will control the Wales-South Africa quarter.

With Welshman Nigel Owens widely regarded as within the top quartet, he cannot handle Wales-South Africa which also rules out Craig Joubert. Most pundits are tipping Barnes or one of the two top French whistleblowers will be given that match and Joubert or Owens will handle the All Blacks game.

Match appointments are made by a six-man selection committee which includes former New Zealand ref Lyndon Bray. He is joined by Sanzar colleague Andrew Cole, two ex-northern hemisphere refs, World Rugby's high performance match officials manager and a chairman.

Barnes has already handled the All Blacks once in this Cup. He had the whistle for New Zealand's opening group match where he sin-binned skipper Richie McCaw.

The still possible appointment of Barnes aside, Henry was not concerned that the scenario facing the All Blacks replicated eight years ago.

"I think that's a huge advantage," he said. "There's no surprises. Steve Hansen and Wayne Smith were there as well. Richie was the captain and there's a number of players still around who played in those days.

"That will be very much in the front of their minds and I think they will play well. They will be looking forward to that fixture and just putting a line through it, ruling it off, so we can all move on."

Henry said Hansen would be "pretty happy" with where his squad was at and they would "be on the job" against the French.

by dallym Mon 12 Oct 2015, 8:15 am

reckon it'll be similar to our game against the Argies.

by majesticimperialman Mon 12 Oct 2015, 8:16 am

Is Wayne Barnes the referee for this game?

If so then i guess France will win just like last time. Run

by yappysnap Mon 12 Oct 2015, 8:19 am

Can only see NZ walking this one. France are sadly far from those French teams of the past. NZ on the other hand may start slow but it'll be comfy by 60 mins.

by maestegmafia Mon 12 Oct 2015, 9:08 am

It would be interesting if Wayne Barnes does end up refereeing this match

by maestegmafia Mon 12 Oct 2015, 9:11 am

yappysnap wrote:Can only see NZ walking this one. .

You know that is as much cliché as "it depends which French team turn up".

by whocares Mon 12 Oct 2015, 9:22 am

dallym wrote:reckon it'll be similar to our game against the Argies.

you're being generous, that's probably the best case scenario for France. the more likely scenario is NZ-Tonga.

by **rodders** Mon 12 Oct 2015, 9:45 am

Hmm the ABs definitely aren't firing on all cylinders but are they keeping their power dry a bit?

Don't think France offer much danger in the backs without Huget - the only place they can take the ABs on is in the tight and I'd imagine they will be hurting after the number Ireland did on their scrum and maul yesterday. The ABs scrum definitely looks vulnerable.

I think France are gone mentally though, I just can't see them coming back from that second half... surely they couldn't do it again on the ABs....

by maestegmafia Mon 12 Oct 2015, 9:46 am

whocares wrote:
dallym wrote:reckon it'll be similar to our game against the Argies.

you're being generous, that's probably the best case scenario for France. the more likely scenario is NZ-Tonga.

Have faith, France can play some awesome rugby, not quite sure why you fell off the pace so mush at the MS yesterday but you were certainly no wilting flower in the first half.

by whocares Mon 12 Oct 2015, 10:31 am

maestegmafia wrote:
whocares wrote:
dallym wrote:reckon it'll be similar to our game against the Argies.

you're being generous, that's probably the best case scenario for France. the more likely scenario is NZ-Tonga.

Have faith, France can play some awesome rugby, not quite sure why you fell off the pace so mush at the MS yesterday but you were certainly no wilting flower in the first half.

I do have faith, I just hope we can leave this worldcup with some dignity and start to look at what is hopefully a brighter future. It might be brutal on saturday, hope no kiwis get injured in the process thumbsup

by Fantasticbarnsmell Mon 12 Oct 2015, 6:09 pm

France were absolutely woeful against Ireland... New Zealand have this one in the bag

by majesticimperialman Mon 12 Oct 2015, 6:22 pm

Fantasticbarnsmell wrote:France were absolutely woeful against Ireland... New Zealand have this one in the bag

Ireland was woeful against Italy, but look what Ireland did to France. Take it one game at a time.

by emack2 Tue 13 Oct 2015, 11:32 pm

How long before people twig that France manipulate the Pool Stage to suit them.
They wanted NZ not Argentina no ones fooled least of all NZ they no France have
shown nothing yet.

by No 7&1/2 Wed 14 Oct 2015, 8:09 am

So you're saying France threw a game? Jest?

by blackcanelion Wed 14 Oct 2015, 9:40 am

My thoughts on the French approach this weekend are: physicality, frustration and exploitation. I think they'll aim to bully the AB's. I think they'll flood the breakdown, and look for an immense game from Dusatoir. I think they'll really attack the AB's scrum as well. They'll play a very flat defence and look to slow the ball down. The idea being to frustrate the Ab's and look to exploit any Ab's mistakes. This is pretty much ex French international Tony Marsh's thoughts.

by disneychilly Wed 14 Oct 2015, 10:27 am

I'm looking for Carter and Nonu to find space with chipkicks and SBW to use his offload to destroy the French rush defence. Carter and Ben Smith will also use their kicking game to both gain territory and force the French wings back to be able to outflank them. Expect a lot of kicking to Spedding's weaker foot-with the French maul they might not want to find touch-this also keeps the ball in play. Owens wants games to run as well so this may help New Zealand.

by Guest Wed 14 Oct 2015, 10:50 am

I'm picking Dane Coles will move from the wing to hooker.

by **LondonTiger** Wed 14 Oct 2015, 10:59 am

emack2 wrote:How long before people twig that France manipulate the Pool Stage to suit them. They wanted NZ not Argentina no ones fooled least of all NZ they no France have shown nothing yet.

You really believe France deliberately lost a game?

by disneychilly Wed 14 Oct 2015, 11:00 am

Great asset to have eh. Serious gas-France will not want to take their eyes off him which opens up more space for others.

by **rodders** Wed 14 Oct 2015, 11:08 am

LondonTiger wrote:
emack2 wrote:How long before people twig that France manipulate the Pool Stage to suit them. They wanted NZ not Argentina no ones fooled least of all NZ they no France have shown nothing yet.

You really believe France deliberately lost a game?

I agree with Alan - in fact I think they'll deliberately lose this one too as they want to go home Smile

.

by disneychilly Wed 14 Oct 2015, 11:38 am

rodders wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
emack2 wrote:How long before people twig that France manipulate the Pool Stage to suit them. They wanted NZ not Argentina no ones fooled least of all NZ they no France have shown nothing yet.

You really believe France deliberately lost a game?

I agree with Alan - in fact I think they'll deliberately lose this one too as they want to go home .

Well they were based in Croydon...

by whocares Wed 14 Oct 2015, 3:12 pm

French team only announced tomorrow lunchtime but it has (apparently) leaked :

Spedding - Dulin, Fofana, Dumoulin, Nakaitaci - Michalak Parra - Le Roux, Picamoles, Dusautoir - Papé, Maestri - Slimani, Guirado, Ben Arous

After some really bad perfomances against Irelands , Bastareaud (particularly useless), Chouly (transparent) and Tillous-Bordes (slow and bad choices) should be axed.

by emack2 Thu 15 Oct 2015, 2:08 pm

Yes,I am maybe they fancy the Boks and AB`s rather than Australia and Argentina,check 2011 not to worried
about AB`s first match?Tonga that was thrown too.
Only when they got the message from sideline they needed a try to qualify,wham bang one try within a
couple of minutes.Qualified avoided Aus,SA,and AB`s till Final and most here say they would have won
RWC but for the Ref.
They have a good set piece and a great Goalkicker,Owens does the Scrum by guesswork so loads of
Penalties.France have every chance of winning this one the Boks maybe not?

by Fantasticbarnsmell Thu 15 Oct 2015, 2:27 pm

emack2 wrote:Yes,I am maybe they fancy the Boks and AB`s rather than Australia and Argentina,check 2011 not to worried
about AB`s first match?Tonga that was thrown too.
Only when they got the message from sideline they needed a try to qualify,wham bang one try within a
couple of minutes.Qualified avoided Aus,SA,and AB`s till Final and most here say they would have won
RWC but for the Ref.
They have a good set piece and a great Goalkicker,Owens does the Scrum by guesswork so loads of
Penalties.France have every chance of winning this one the Boks maybe not?

France are going to get spanked this weekend... Pretty much the only factor going for them is this hoodoo nonsense which the AB's will not be falling into again. If Boks win this weekend they will give the AB's a better game in the semi.

by disneychilly Thu 15 Oct 2015, 3:41 pm

15. Ben Smith
14. Nehe Milner-Skudder
13. Conrad Smith
12. Ma'a Nonu
11. Julian Savea
10. Dan Carter
9. Aaron Smith
8. Kieran Read
7. Richie McCaw (c)
6. Jerome Kaino
5. Sam Whitelock
4. Brodie Retallick
3. Owen Franks
2. Dane Coles
1. Wyatt Crockett

Reserves: Keven Mealamu, Joe Moody, Charlie Faumuina, Victor Vito, Sam Cane, Tawera Kerr-Barlow, Beauden Barrett, Sonny Bill Williams.

TKB over TJP an interesting selection-I thought Hansen had Perenara playing a similar style to Smith for NZ this year. Also chucking Moody in over Ben Franks-might be a good move as he is a specialist and might not get involved in silly niggly stuff.

by **Notch** Thu 15 Oct 2015, 8:17 pm

Rumours on twitter that the French players have effectively ousted Phillippe St. Andre and are basically coaching themselves. Well, they can't be much worse in terms of coaching but it doesn't exactly persuade me that they are going to be able to make this close!

by Guest Thu 15 Oct 2015, 8:35 pm

Notch wrote:Rumours on twitter that the French players have effectively ousted Phillippe St. Andre and are basically coaching themselves. Well, they can't be much worse in terms of coaching but it doesn't exactly persuade me that they are going to be able to make this close!

Would never have expected that of the French.

....not much Very Happy

Pape to take over as new Head Coach.

NZ to wear tin underwear.

by No 7&1/2 Thu 15 Oct 2015, 8:49 pm

emack2 wrote:Yes,I am maybe they fancy the Boks and AB`s rather than Australia and Argentina,check 2011 not to worried
about AB`s first match?Tonga that was thrown too.
Only when they got the message from sideline they needed a try to qualify,wham bang one try within a
couple of minutes.Qualified avoided Aus,SA,and AB`s till Final and most here say they would have won
RWC but for the Ref.
They have a good set piece and a great Goalkicker,Owens does the Scrum by guesswork so loads of
Penalties.France have every chance of winning this one the Boks maybe not?

Wow so match fixing pretty much. Teams in other sports have been thrown out for doing this at major events. Total rubbish but well done for having the bravery to openly say it.

by wales606 Thu 15 Oct 2015, 8:58 pm

Notch wrote:Rumours on twitter that the French players have effectively ousted Phillippe St. Andre and are basically coaching themselves. Well, they can't be much worse in terms of coaching but it doesn't exactly persuade me that they are going to be able to make this close!

They did that last world cup and look at what almost happened!

The All Blacks should be very nervous now!

by mikey_dragon Thu 15 Oct 2015, 9:28 pm

If it's true then why now? The French team has served under PSA for four years and the performances haven't improved. Mad Marc was a bit...mad - but the results under him were a lot better than PSA's France - is mutiny perhaps just a World Cup thing for the French?

by Artful_Dodger Thu 15 Oct 2015, 9:30 pm

Notch wrote:Rumours on twitter that the French players have effectively ousted Phillippe St. Andre and are basically coaching themselves. Well, they can't be much worse in terms of coaching but it doesn't exactly persuade me that they are going to be able to make this close!

Only just saw this now, I made an article about it. Its all over the French press from what I'm told.

by majesticimperialman Thu 15 Oct 2015, 9:39 pm

I think this game will depend on what happens in the first 20 minutes. If France are on top it could be hard work for NZ.

Lets hope this game goes like the 2007 rugby world cup. Down to the wire.

by SecretFly Thu 15 Oct 2015, 10:36 pm

Munchkin wrote:

Pape to take over as new Head Coach.

NZ to wear tin underwear.

by emack2 Fri 16 Oct 2015, 1:55 am

Maybe wrong about the Ireland match but they certainly eased off after half time,BUT 2011 Coach publically stated he didn't
think.France could beat NZ twice and might not worry too much in the pool game.
Don`t think NZ will worry if France are in revolt or not,nor if they go behind early on they`ll back themselves against any side
over 85 minutes.I t maybe more about targeting players and getting them of injured or roughed up that at least seemed to
be the case in the Ireland match .that applied to both sides certainly there were a lot of casualties.
Nz team interesting arguably the strongest starting side the could field,bench thinking Faumina and Moody two specialists
at Prop.Vito to replace Read as his form seems to have dipped,Barrett to Fullback so Smith can cover FB,W,or C.Kaino
to Lock if required.McCaw and Cane playing left and right instead of 6 and 7.SBW at 12 so Nonu can be replaced or
moved in.Kerr-Barlow is most experienced replacement SH.Carter hopefully will get through uninjured as Goal Kicking
is weak area.

by doctor_grey Fri 16 Oct 2015, 3:17 am

The French are revolting? Well only sometimes, eh mes amis?

France in an uproar. Well, that seems to be when they do the most damage (pronounced dam-aaaage). Under PSA they absolutely did under-perform, worse than England under the House of Lancaster (sacré bleu!). But real talent remains, but the question is how much, and can they really harness it after 4 years of mediocrity? I agree the first 20 should show whether they can really hang in there or not. The odds are certainly against, but if they do hang in and the door is open just a wee crack, that is all they would need.
Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose..........

Really facinated to see how they do. I could almost root for them for the rest of the tournament...............

Vive la révolution!
Vive la France! QF2: New Zealand v France, 17 October Vive_la_france_vive_la_revolution_bastille_day_tshirt-r470ad5226b5a48a6a48677cf2261b684_f0yqz_1024

QF2: New Zealand v France, 17 October Vive_la_france_vive_la_revolution_bastille_day_tshirt-r470ad5226b5a48a6a48677cf2261b684_f0yqz_1024

QF2: New Zealand v France, 17 October L8qch9

QF2: New Zealand v France, 17 October Vive-La-France-97774

by blackcanelion Fri 16 Oct 2015, 4:48 am

Dr, Have to agree with you. The French are at their best when they are angry and against the world. I think the general French strategy has to be start hard, as long as they in touch they'll back themselves the longer the game goes. Get ahead even better.

by aucklandlaurie Fri 16 Oct 2015, 7:20 am

I expect the All Blacks to win.

I just cant see where France are going to get the points from.

by offload Fri 16 Oct 2015, 7:30 am

There is little expectation for France, which is often when they are at their best. Talk of the AB's wanting to right the wrongs of the last clash in Cardiff is silly. If anything, France will want to put right the 2011 final when on that day they were the better team and should have won.

AB fans will rightly feel confident that this game should be a formality.....but there will be a few nerves. If you could script a potential banana skin, it would be France, in Cardiff, in the quarters. Don't you just love the world cup!

by Guest Fri 16 Oct 2015, 7:58 am

France should have finished the 2011 final with 14 men.

by majesticimperialman Fri 16 Oct 2015, 8:02 am

ebop wrote:France should have finished the 2011 final with 14 men.

I think if they had have'd the Hawk Eye system then, they might have won.

I still feel that the French was robbed of that game.

by Guest Fri 16 Oct 2015, 8:06 am

Of course, everyone does Wink

But seriously, few YCs on the cards tomorrow.

by goneagain Fri 16 Oct 2015, 8:06 am

offload wrote: the 2011 final when on that day they were the better team and should have won.

Why does this nonsense persist? France had a very strong 20-25 minutes in the second half. That's it.

by offload Fri 16 Oct 2015, 8:15 am

goneagain wrote:
offload wrote: the 2011 final when on that day they were the better team and should have won.

Why does this nonsense persist? France had a very strong 20-25 minutes in the second half. That's it.

It's not nonsense - it's a widely help opinion, just not yours. France were terible until the final and then played the better rugby, in what was a pretty dire match. New Zealand saved their worst performance for the final, and won. Good on them.

by offload Fri 16 Oct 2015, 8:16 am

ebop wrote:France should have finished the 2011 final with 14 men.

I agree.

by goneagain Fri 16 Oct 2015, 8:21 am

NZ were the better team the entire first half, if they had a decent kicker could have been a lot further ahead. I agree that for most of the second half the French were better, but that doesn't constitute the whole match.

by Guest Fri 16 Oct 2015, 8:28 am

I don't even bother arguing about this anymore. Trophy was in the cabinet for a few years. All that matters. It was a pretty dire game though. This much is fact that can't be argued.

Wonder what special treat we'll see with the haka challenge. The French are always up for a bit of f**k you when it comes to the haka.

by majesticimperialman Fri 16 Oct 2015, 8:33 am

I know this maybe nonsence and have no bearing on the match in question, But since NZ won the first world cup they have been called the best rugby team in the world.

And every year after the Rugby World Cup they have been the team to beat. but at the RWC they become known as (chokers) because for one thing or another they "LOST"

It sort of became a kinda we have the right to world champions, and referee's let thm NZ get away with all sorts of things and no yellow cards.

It is almost a conspiracy that( NZ HAD TO WIN) 2011 RWC. and it did not matter who they played they was not going too lose.

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