PRO12 has new Managing Director and he isn't Irish :D :yahoo:

by Sin é Thu Aug 06, 2015 1:51 pm

First topic message reminder :

Welcome Martin Anayi, you are going to have your hands full.

Read more at http://www.pro12rugby.com/news/17587.php#kJPQdWr0F2UKZ8DF.99

by SecretFly Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:19 pm

Pinprick it as much as you want Phil. You know what I'm saying.

There's nothing Regional or Provincial about four Professional Rugby Organisations based in the one Region of a Nation and claiming Regional rights to represent other clubs and districts that often (on evidence of the in-fighting we often see amongst the Welsh posters here) want nothing to do with their supposed Regional Representative teams.

by PhilBB Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:22 pm

SecretFly wrote:Pinprick it as much as you want Phil. You know what I'm saying.

There's nothing Regional or Provincial about four Professional Rugby Organisations based in the one Region of a Nation and claiming Regional rights to represent other clubs and districts that often (on evidence of the in-fighting we often see amongst the Welsh posters here) want nothing to do with their supposed Regional Representative teams.

I don't think anybody claims regional rights, or any evidence of any club bar one acting in the way that you have claimed, but you're right to point out we have 4 Super Clubs who have developmental responsibilities.

by Sin é Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:23 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Thats good coming from the guy who can't figure out how to reclaim VAT paid in another EU State.

You have no idea what compensation would have been required for the staff. Some of the staff had been there from the beginning. As well as that, the Directors of the company were Honorary and would have deserved a greater duty of care that they were not personally liable.

Compensation is paid out in line with time in service. The rest of that post indicates you've barely run a bath let alone a company in your life.

That is statutory redundancy. Someone like Derek McGrath would be getting a bit more than that. Wink

It will be interesting to see how much it took to wind up the company.

by marty2086 Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:23 pm

PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

They were given money as part of infrastructure projects that provided jobs and will bring money into the local economy

Right.

I can see why the Northern Ireland government spending on the asset of a Republic of Ireland company in order to bring jobs to Belfast is exactly the best way to spend £14m.

Ulster branch are a UK company who pay UK tax etc its why when the RoI had tax breaks for sports stars Ulster were not able to take advantage but be asinine all you want on the subject you change your argument to suit your constant need to be right

by PhilBB Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:23 pm

PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

They were given money as part of infrastructure projects that provided jobs and will bring money into the local economy

Right.

I can see why the Northern Ireland government spending on the asset of a Republic of Ireland company in order to bring jobs to Belfast is exactly the best way to spend £14m.

Why did you delete your post, Marty?

by PhilBB Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:24 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Ulster branch are a UK company who pay UK tax etc its why when the RoI had tax breaks for sports stars Ulster were not able to take advantage but be asinine all you want on the subject you change your argument to suit your constant need to be right

Are you sure Ulster were not able to? After all, all contracts are held by the IRFU so if the player in question plays for Ulster but lives in the Republic then it would all be ok - yes?

by PhilBB Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:25 pm

Sin é wrote:
That is statutory redundancy. Someone like Derek McGrath would be getting a bit more than that.

It will be interesting to see how much it took to wind up the company.

The Vet would be getting what his contract (so known) dictated.

by Sin é Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:30 pm

Phil - you will never convince any Irish poster that Welsh Regional Rugby/Super Clubs is/are well run. And none of us want Irish rugby to become the mess that the Welsh regions are.

Its mind boggling that you would even think that we would want to change our success model so that Welsh rugby might feel better about itself or that you think Irish rugby is being unfair Very Happy

by marty2086 Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:33 pm

PhilBB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Ulster branch are a UK company who pay UK tax etc its why when the RoI had tax breaks for sports stars Ulster were not able to take advantage but be asinine all you want on the subject you change your argument to suit your constant need to be right

Are you sure Ulster were not able to? After all, all contracts are held by the IRFU so if the player in question plays for Ulster but lives in the Republic then it would all be ok - yes?

No their not, after all your complaining about Irish posters not knowing about the regions you think you'd have gotten your facts right on this

Contracts to play for the provinces are held by the provinces, to play for Ireland are held by the IRFU.

It doesn't matter where you live its where you work as long as its in the EU, that's my experience anyway

by marty2086 Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:34 pm

Sin é wrote:Phil - you will never convince any Irish poster that Welsh Regional Rugby/Super Clubs is/are well run. And none of us want Irish rugby to become the mess that the Welsh regions are.

Its mind boggling that you would even think that we would want to change our success model so that Welsh rugby might feel better about itself or that you think Irish rugby is being unfair

Not that the Irish model is perfect as Ulsters backrow options will show

by LordDowlais Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:35 pm

Sin é wrote:Its mind boggling that you would even think that we would want to change our success model so that Welsh rugby might feel better about itself or that you think Irish rugby is being unfair

It's not about making you change, it's about making our Irish members on here realise that Irish rugby is not as perfect as they would like to think it is. The reason why the league is playing catch up with other leagues is the fault of all of us, not just the Welsh. thumbsup

by SecretFly Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:41 pm

The fault of it, Lord,..... is that the Welsh first wouldn't agree with each other (for something like one and a half years or so???)...

.....and now they won't agree with us that.......... the Irish have the best system going and are generally faultless in totality Wink

Now repeat that 20 times a night before you go to sleep and in a month we might actually start to make progress here! Whistle

by LordDowlais Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:45 pm

SecretFly wrote:Now repeat that 20 times a night before you go to sleep and in a month we might actually start to make progress here!

I've tried that, oh Lord have I tried. Laugh

But I just cannot get passed the fact that the IRFU treated our league with contempt from the outset. Wink

I have always wondered how much money our league would make if we toned down the Irishness of it. Whistle

by asoreleftshoulder Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:47 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Sin é wrote:Its mind boggling that you would even think that we would want to change our success model so that Welsh rugby might feel better about itself or that you think Irish rugby is being unfair

It's not about making you change, it's about making our Irish members on here realise that Irish rugby is not as perfect as they would like to think it is. The reason why the league is playing catch up with other leagues is the fault of all of us, not just the Welsh.

It's pretty sad that you put so much effort into this,you must be great craic to hang out with.Do you do this in other areas of life?What different ways can you find to convince people who are happy that they shouldn't be.

by Sin é Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:50 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Sin é wrote:
That is statutory redundancy. Someone like Derek McGrath would be getting a bit more than that.

It will be interesting to see how much it took to wind up the company.

The Vet would be getting what his contract (so known) dictated.

Probably close to 1m. I'd say they were hoping he would move to Switzerland.

by SecretFly Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:50 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Now repeat that 20 times a night before you go to sleep and in a month we might actually start to make progress here!

I've tried that, oh Lord have I tried.

But I just cannot get passed the fact that the IRFU treated our league with contempt from the outset.

I have always wondered how much money our league would make if we toned down the Irishness of it.

You mean we ain't Internationally liked by the people who give folks more money? They'd prefer a more UKish sniff off the old Celtic/Italiano Cocktail?

Well we could introduce a few Beefeaters at the beginning of all games to toss the coin???

by LordDowlais Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:50 pm

asoreleftshoulder wrote:It's pretty sad that you put so much effort into this,you must be great craic to hang out with.Do you do this in other areas of life?What different ways can you find to convince people who are happy that they shouldn't be.

Well, when you stop blaming the Welsh for everything that is wrong with our league and start realising that irish rugby is/was part of the problem then we can all move forward.I have put the same effort into trying to make you realise that, as you have in blaming the Welsh.

by LordDowlais Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:52 pm

SecretFly wrote:Well we could introduce a few Beefeaters at the beginning of all games to toss the coin???

Meh, that we be a start I suppose. Very Happy

by Sin é Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:55 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Sin é wrote:Its mind boggling that you would even think that we would want to change our success model so that Welsh rugby might feel better about itself or that you think Irish rugby is being unfair

It's not about making you change, it's about making our Irish members on here realise that Irish rugby is not as perfect as they would like to think it is. The reason why the league is playing catch up with other leagues is the fault of all of us, not just the Welsh.

We know its not perfect (i.e., for instance, it would be nice to be able to bring in any player you wanted without the IRFU having its say). But one thing I do know, I would hate if the club I supported was owned by someone like Bruce Craig.

by Sin é Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:59 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
asoreleftshoulder wrote:It's pretty sad that you put so much effort into this,you must be great craic to hang out with.Do you do this in other areas of life?What different ways can you find to convince people who are happy that they shouldn't be.

Well, when you stop blaming the Welsh for everything that is wrong with our league and start realising that irish rugby is/was part of the problem then we can all move forward.I have put the same effort into trying to make you realise that, as you have in blaming the Welsh.

It makes life in the Pro12 when you get this non-stop barrage of hate towards the league. I really don't get why you put so much energy into hating the league so much.

by SecretFly Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:00 pm

Bruce Craig is an honest decent man out to help little honest men enjoy life and sport and not in it for his own ends as a businessman with long term dreams and calculations.

Craig is a decent Joe that's made good...unlike those organisations that have more than one man in them and are just out for themselves and their own blazer-golf interests.....

Leave Bruce alone. He's one of us.

by LordDowlais Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:07 pm

Sin é wrote:It makes life in the Pro12 when you get this non-stop barrage of hate towards the league. I really don't get why you put so much energy into hating the league so much.

Woa, hold on a minute there varmint. I have never hated our league, I just want parity. I just want potential bias taken from it. I want fair play to all unions involved. I like our league, I just think a number of things are holding it back.

by Cardiff Dave Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:49 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Sin é wrote:It makes life in the Pro12 when you get this non-stop barrage of hate towards the league. I really don't get why you put so much energy into hating the league so much.

Woa, hold on a minute there varmint. I have never hated our league, I just want parity. I just want potential bias taken from it. I want fair play to all unions involved. I like our league, I just think a number of things are holding it back.

D'you reckon that Cardiff ever went out full tilt to win the Magner's? Nope, nor me. HEC qualification always seemed to me to be the goal ie finishing above the Dregs.

by PhilBB Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:05 am

Sin é wrote:Phil - you will never convince any Irish poster that Welsh Regional Rugby/Super Clubs is/are well run. And none of us want Irish rugby to become the mess that the Welsh regions are.

Its mind boggling that you would even think that we would want to change our success model so that Welsh rugby might feel better about itself or that you think Irish rugby is being unfair

It's not about convincing you, Sin. It's about flushing out the ludicrous basis of your opinion and, I must say, you've been a great assistance in doing that in this thread.

I fully understand the Stockholm Syndrome of Irish rugby.

by PhilBB Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:07 am

marty2086 wrote:
Contracts to play for the provinces are held by the provinces, to play for Ireland are held by the IRFU.

That much, of course, is utterly untrue. All you need to do is to see Branch accounts to know that all contracts are held by the IRFU and salaries paid from there.

Get yourself some Branch accounts and educate yourself.

Because, and have a think about this, if you think that the players are contracted to the Branch their salaries would then be ON TOP of the huge sums paid by the IRFU.

If you want to know the truth - the Branches pay only the non-Irish qualified player wages.

by PhilBB Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:09 am

asoreleftshoulder wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Sin é wrote:Its mind boggling that you would even think that we would want to change our success model so that Welsh rugby might feel better about itself or that you think Irish rugby is being unfair

It's not about making you change, it's about making our Irish members on here realise that Irish rugby is not as perfect as they would like to think it is. The reason why the league is playing catch up with other leagues is the fault of all of us, not just the Welsh.

It's pretty sad that you put so much effort into this,you must be great craic to hang out with.Do you do this in other areas of life?What different ways can you find to convince people who are happy that they shouldn't be.

The obvious reply to that is that you may be happy living in ignorance but that doesn't mean that your happiness should extend to those of us who can see that ignorance.

by PhilBB Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:09 am

Sin é wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Sin é wrote:
That is statutory redundancy. Someone like Derek McGrath would be getting a bit more than that.

It will be interesting to see how much it took to wind up the company.

The Vet would be getting what his contract (so known) dictated.

Probably close to 1m. I'd say they were hoping he would move to Switzerland.

Really? What's the basis for that claim?

by PhilBB Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:10 am

Sin é wrote:

We know its not perfect (i.e., for instance, it would be nice to be able to bring in any player you wanted without the IRFU having its say). But one thing I do know, I would hate if the club I supported was owned by someone like Bruce Craig.

Nasty Craig, lovely McManus.

That's the narrative, isn't it? It's so downright stupid, too.

by PhilBB Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:11 am

Sin é wrote:
It makes life in the Pro12 when you get this non-stop barrage of hate towards the league. I really don't get why you put so much energy into hating the league so much.

Because of the obvious cost to Welsh rugby of playing in it. Nobody in their right mind would choose to play in the Pr'O12 over an Anglo-Welsh league. Nobody.

by Chunky Norwich Fri Sep 04, 2015 9:20 am

Munchkin wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Where's Chunky? On Holiday?

Phil appears - Chunky disappears..... Although I don't think they both support Scarlets.

Here I am. I was banned for giving an opinion again.

In the meantime, I have guffawed, giggled and keeled over at this thread. PhilBB has schooled most of the Irish eyes on here, yet the delusion remains firm. Even in the face of facts the Irish are adamant that black is white and white is black. It's really quite something to observe.

by SecretFly Fri Sep 04, 2015 9:38 am

So you paid Phil to represent your opinions?

I wonder will he now be gone again into a long hibernation until required again if you get banned again??

by PhilBB Fri Sep 04, 2015 9:42 am

SecretFly wrote:So you paid Phil to represent your opinions?

I wonder will he now be gone again into a long hibernation until required again if you get banned again??

What an odd post.

by Chunky Norwich Fri Sep 04, 2015 9:44 am

The Irish see these opinions as "A minority with an insignificant viewpoint". Like Feehan, the levels of delusion / insincerity is remarkable.

by PhilBB Fri Sep 04, 2015 9:45 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:The Irish see these opinions as "A minority with an insignificant viewpoint". Like Feehan, the levels of delusion / insincerity is remarkable.

Feehan's comments on the Top14 were incredibly inaccurate and ignorant, bless him.

by Chunky Norwich Fri Sep 04, 2015 9:49 am

When are they announcing the final venue for the PrO'12? Is it halfway through the season again?

by SecretFly Fri Sep 04, 2015 9:52 am

Oh you two have already been introduced to each other?? I'll leave you to it then. Plenty to agree on between the both of you Wink

by PhilBB Fri Sep 04, 2015 9:58 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:When are they announcing the final venue for the PrO'12? Is it halfway through the season again?

It's going to be Murrayfield.

Because of the VAT exemption according to Sin.

by Chunky Norwich Fri Sep 04, 2015 9:59 am

PhilBB wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:When are they announcing the final venue for the PrO'12? Is it halfway through the season again?

It's going to be Murrayfield.

Because of the VAT exemption according to Sin.

What now? What VAT exemption?

by PhilBB Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:13 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:

What now? What VAT exemption?

The Irish don't pay VAT on ticket sales.

€67.5bn loan, don't forget.

by Chunky Norwich Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:21 am

PhilBB wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:

What now? What VAT exemption?

The Irish don't pay VAT on ticket sales.

€67.5bn loan, don't forget.

That reminds me of another thread I must dig up.

by Chunky Norwich Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:29 am

Sin é wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Sin é wrote:Its 18m between 4 provinces (18 divided by 4 = 4.5) - the actual cost to the IRFU.

How much do you think Leinster, Munster and Ulster spend on squad wags per annum?

I don't know, but I'd guess about 4 or 5 million.

Euros?

Yes. The players are not that well paid - most the squad would be on about 50K per annum with a few like say Tommy O'Donnell, Jones on about 120K per annum. Plenty of lads on Dev Contracts of less than 30K per annum. Then you have guys like CJ Stander, Francis Saili and Tyler Bleyendaal on biggish money.

Utter delusion

by Sin é Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:49 am

PhilBB wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:

What now? What VAT exemption?

The Irish don't pay VAT on ticket sales.

€67.5bn loan, don't forget.

Not just the Irish PhilBB - even all you Welshies will not pay VAT on tickets played in Ireland. Thanks to the Irish Government.

by Chunky Norwich Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:53 am

Sin é wrote:The man himself:

http://www.the42.ie/martin-anayi-pro12-managing-director-2308271-Sep2015/

Interesting comment from the new MD:

“That started to change last year with Judgement Day and the key part is Martyn Philips coming into the WRU (as chief executive) and Mark Davies, head of the clubs (chief exec. of Regional Rugby Wales), are now relying on each other.

If those two are aligned, the union and the regions, can you imagine how big this thing can become? There’s huge potential.

He seems to think there is a problem with the Welsh.

He's not wrong. We hate it.

“I think in Ireland it’s been deemed to be too easy as a competition,” says Anayi.

“In Wales, speaking to my network from playing for London Welsh, they’re not sure what it stands for anymore. They haven’t been following it, and that’s a real problem.

by Sin é Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:56 am

PhilBB wrote:
Sin é wrote:

We know its not perfect (i.e., for instance, it would be nice to be able to bring in any player you wanted without the IRFU having its say). But one thing I do know, I would hate if the club I supported was owned by someone like Bruce Craig.

Nasty Craig, lovely McManus.

That's the narrative, isn't it? It's so downright stupid, too.

Yep, McManus is the business. (though, I wouldn't say Craig is nasty - I'd just hate him to own the rugby club I supported).

JP McManus Receives Richard Harris Patrons Award

Jared Harris, son of legendary actor Richard Harris was in London last night to present the Richard Harris Patrons' Award, the highlight of Munster Rugby's Patrons Dinner held in London.

The Richard Harris Patrons' Award recognises an individual who through his or her life or work encapsulates Munster's values of Passion, Integrity, Ambition, Excellence and Community.

Richard Harris was a Munster Rugby patron in its truest sense, and Munster Rugby are honoured to have the Patron's Award named after him.

Everywhere he went he espoused his love of Munster Rugby and what it meant to him. Having represented the province both at Schools and U20s level, Harris understood and demonstrated the heritage, values and passion Munster Rugby instilled in all those who play with and support them. Such was his pride in the jersey, he treasured his Munster U20s jersey and famously wore it to the Heineken Cup Final in 2002.

This year's winner, JP McManus, demonstrates those very values that the award recognises. The McManus family's support of Limerick city, county and further afield, both on sporting fields and off, have given many the ability to continue to fulfil ambitions where once that opportunity may not have existed.

Through initiatives and events such as the All Ireland Scholarships programme, the JP McManus Benevolent Fund and the hugely successful JP McManus ProAm, millions of euro have been committed, ensuring the enhancement of quality of life in local communities.

A frequent attendee at Munster Rugby games in Thomond Park and further afield, Munster Rugby was honoured to recognise the fantastic work of JP and the McManus family in presenting the Richard Harris Patrons' Award to him last night.

Sculptor Jarlath Daly created a unique piece which was presented to the Harris Family last year, with a replica being presented each year thereafter at the annual Munster Rugby Patrons' Dinner in London.

You can add the Annual Munster Patron Dinner in London every year as another way of raising funds to pay off our debt. Brian Moore was Guest Speaker last night and seems to have gone down a treat.

by Sin é Sat Sep 05, 2015 8:33 am

Chunky Norwich wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Chunky Norwich wrote:
Sin é wrote:Its 18m between 4 provinces (18 divided by 4 = 4.5) - the actual cost to the IRFU.

How much do you think Leinster, Munster and Ulster spend on squad wags per annum?

I don't know, but I'd guess about 4 or 5 million.

Euros?

Yes. The players are not that well paid - most the squad would be on about 50K per annum with a few like say Tommy O'Donnell, Jones on about 120K per annum. Plenty of lads on Dev Contracts of less than 30K per annum. Then you have guys like CJ Stander, Francis Saili and Tyler Bleyendaal on biggish money.

Utter delusion

You just haven't a clue about people's attitude to sport in Ireland. The most popular sport is amateur (GAA) and pretty much most people in Ireland play it from a very young age. 82,000 will be in Croke Park this afternoon this afternoon for a football semi-final replay. Another 82,000 will be in Croke Park tomorrow for the hurling final. The players who play intercounty football/hurling are phenomenal athletes who are professional in everyday except they don't get paid.

You will never understand this, but if you wanted to do that, perhaps you should take account of the culture of Irish sport.

by Sin é Sun Sep 06, 2015 2:25 pm

Guinness Storehouse named Europe’s best tourist attraction
Dublin attraction beats Eiffel Tower, La Sagrada Familia and Acropolis

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/guinness-storehouse-named-europe-s-best-tourist-attraction-1.2341826

by SecretFly Sun Sep 06, 2015 2:40 pm

I actually don't know why Guinness Storehouse is so popular a tour.

Well maybe I do - free drink.

But I've been on it and it's all well done and the big pint you go up through and all that stuff. But the actual best bit is just finally getting to the top to look out - which is never all that easy as it's crowded with people looking for the few seats available.

I had the pint. Not a drinker but I had the pint. Lovely day, lovely view but I still don't get the extreme popularity. Maybe you really do have to be an habitual drinker to get it all.

by The Great Aukster Sun Sep 06, 2015 3:15 pm

SF - I don't get it either. It should have shown some live part of the process rather than the fake mock-ups. I seem to remember that the Gravity bar is inaccessible for disabled people so they don't even get to see the views from the top. At 30 euro for a family I wouldn't describe my pint as free either. In it's favour it doesn't have many competing attractions so it's little wonder that it attracts 50% of the Dublin tourists.

Paris, Barcelona, Rome, Berlin all have far more things to see so it is little wonder that they aren't concentrated in one attraction.

by SecretFly Sun Sep 06, 2015 3:26 pm

Yeah, I thought you'd see part of the real factory/process on the tour _ I was disappointed that you don't.

And yeah, the ticket price kinda negates the idea of the complimentary pint.

I do think Dublin now shouldn't be afraid to go UP out on the docks and what I'd like is a really fine architecturally unique building that might have a few top floor restaurants.

But all Dublin's best parts are actually non-paying bits anyway like St. Steven's Green, Phoenix Park, Killiney, Howth.

by Sin é Sun Sep 06, 2015 3:51 pm

Great marketing! Lets hope they bring the same to the Pro12.

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