PRO12 has new Managing Director and he isn't Irish :D :yahoo:

First topic message reminder :

Welcome Martin Anayi, you are going to have your hands full.

Read more at http://www.pro12rugby.com/news/17587.php#kJPQdWr0F2UKZ8DF.99

PhilBB wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Yes the IRFU places limits that stops coaches picking a handful of players at times, its so bad that the WRU have adopted a similar approach

It harms the league because many of these players play more games than a number England and Frances front line players

Which players?

Ben Youngs, Chris Robshaw and other first choice England players all played a similar amount of club games as their Irish counterparts

The stats are readily available GO FIND THEM

PhilBB wrote:

Munchkin wrote:
What evidence? Players are called to training in the national side, and may go on to play for the national side. Players will also be rested after having come back from playing for the national side. This isn't unusual, and it's hardly unique to Ireland.

So you do recognise the evidence after all.

Nobody is saying any different, Phil. What we aren't doing is taking the facts out of context, and adding our own spin to it, as you are.

Since it's you making the assertion, go get the figures for 6N's players time playing for club and country, and compare each nation. Then post here.

That way you can provide proof in support of your claim

marty2086 wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Yes the IRFU places limits that stops coaches picking a handful of players at times, its so bad that the WRU have adopted a similar approach

It harms the league because many of these players play more games than a number England and Frances front line players

Which players?

Ben Youngs, Chris Robshaw and other first choice England players all played a similar amount of club games as their Irish counterparts

The stats are readily available GO FIND THEM

You've gone from 'more games' to 'similar'. It seems that you aren't even confident yourself.

Funny that.

Munchkin wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

Munchkin wrote:
What evidence? Players are called to training in the national side, and may go on to play for the national side. Players will also be rested after having come back from playing for the national side. This isn't unusual, and it's hardly unique to Ireland.

So you do recognise the evidence after all.

Nobody is saying any different, Phil. What we aren't doing is taking the facts out of context, and adding our own spin to it, as you are.

Since it's you making the assertion, go get the figures for 6N's players time playing for club and country, and compare each nation. Then post here.

That way you can provide proof in support of your claim

Why would I need those figures when I have the word of the Leinster coach?

PhilBB wrote:Did those contributors ever look at that NRFC document & the other one view that Press Conference in line with that Senedd document?

Yes?

I guess not.

Funny how people don't like to challenge their opinion.

Just looking at AW Jones appearances for Os. Similar to Paul O'Connell.

Sin é wrote:Just looking at AW Jones appearances for Os. Similar to Paul O'Connell.

Have a look to see how many CL/ML games O'Driscoll played in Wales.

PhilBB wrote:

Sin é wrote:Just looking at AW Jones appearances for Os. Similar to Paul O'Connell.

Have a look to see how many CL/ML games O'Driscoll played in Wales.

What has Brian O'Driscoll visits to Wales got to do with Paul O'Connell & AW Jones having a similar number of appearances each season?

PhilBB wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

Munchkin wrote:
What evidence? Players are called to training in the national side, and may go on to play for the national side. Players will also be rested after having come back from playing for the national side. This isn't unusual, and it's hardly unique to Ireland.

So you do recognise the evidence after all.

Nobody is saying any different, Phil. What we aren't doing is taking the facts out of context, and adding our own spin to it, as you are.

Since it's you making the assertion, go get the figures for 6N's players time playing for club and country, and compare each nation. Then post here.

That way you can provide proof in support of your claim

Why would I need those figures when I have the word of the Leinster coach?

Because you're taking the word of the Leinster coach out of context. In any case, the word of an under pressure coach looking for excuses isn't evidence that can support your claim. In other words, it's opinion, not fact.

I want fact. You are the one making these assertions, I think you made them before MOC made his statement, and so you should already have the facts, at hand. You don't

It's hilarious that the few of you who make this unsubstantiated claims rarely know the facts, or provide them.

Sin é wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

Sin é wrote:Just looking at AW Jones appearances for Os. Similar to Paul O'Connell.

Have a look to see how many CL/ML games O'Driscoll played in Wales.

What has Brian O'Driscoll visits to Wales got to do with Paul O'Connell & AW Jones having a similar number of appearances each season?

It's the context of the value of the player to the league - you know, to increase sponsorship value. Remember?

Last year O'Connell played in 10 league games. AWJ 15.
2013/4: POC 9 games, AWJ 13
2012/3: POC 4 games, AWJ 15

You'd have to be a very special kind of disingenuous to claim those as 'similar'

23 v 43.

Munchkin wrote:
Because you're taking the word of the Leinster coach out of context. In any case, the word of an under pressure coach looking for excuses isn't evidence that can support your claim. In other words, it's opinion, not fact.

I want fact. You are the one making these assertions, I think you made them before MOC made his statement, and so you should already have the facts, at hand. You don't

It's hilarious that the few of you who make this unsubstantiated claims rarely know the facts, or provide them.

Leinster coach moans that IRFU interfere in selection. I point this out. Suddenly, that is 'out of context' to a discussion on IRFU interfering with selection.

Rightio.

How can you claim that I made the assertions before MOC made his statement? He did it months ago whereas this thread has only been alive for a couple of weeks or so.

Are you hoping that people don't properly read the drivel you write?

The reasons I claim that 'I think' you made these assertions prior to the MOC excuse, is because I happen to read GWlad (not so much these days), and this assertion has been made long before then, including on these forums.

Yes, you're taking what has been said out of context. MOCs complaint isn't proof of Ireland resting players more than others, or a deliberate act by the IRFU to unfairly hold back players from playing with the Provinces.
To state the obvious - All players who play for their country will not be available at those times to play for their club, and some of those players who play for their country will need a rest before returning to club duty. It's common sense.

Have a read here. Schmidts counter to MOC's excuses:

MoanyMOC

Munchkin wrote:
Yes, you're taking what has been said out of context. MOCs complaint isn't proof of Ireland resting players more than others, or a deliberate act by the IRFU to unfairly hold back players from playing with the Provinces.

Wasn't my point that the IRFU interfere with selection and not the two claims you've made above?

marty2086 wrote:

Ben Youngs, Chris Robshaw and other first choice England players all played a similar amount of club games as their Irish counterparts

The stats are readily available GO FIND THEM

In the league, I've got POC 23 vs AWJ 43 over three years.

Robshaw's Harlequins stats are shown as minutes played, rather than games.

2014/5 1,274
2013/4 1,733
2012/3 1,444

Do you have these broken down by games rather than minutes? I'm sure that you do as you'll have doubled checked this before mentioning Robshaw.

All Unions interfere with selection, and so for you to single out the IRFU as 'interfering', I take you to mean the above, although you didn't actually say 'interfere' until after my reply to you.

The point being, Phil, is that for you to convince me of your assertion, you would need to clearly demonstrate that the IRFU interferes with selection unfairly, at odds with the policies of other Unions, even if in keeping with Regulation 9.

Regulation 9. The one that states Northern Hemisphere sides play no more than 11 games (in accordance with 'Right to Release'). Three in Autumn. Not four, like Wales

PhilBB wrote:

Sin é wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

Sin é wrote:Just looking at AW Jones appearances for Os. Similar to Paul O'Connell.

Have a look to see how many CL/ML games O'Driscoll played in Wales.

What has Brian O'Driscoll visits to Wales got to do with Paul O'Connell & AW Jones having a similar number of appearances each season?

It's the context of the value of the player to the league - you know, to increase sponsorship value. Remember?

Last year O'Connell played in 10 league games. AWJ 15.
2013/4: POC 9 games, AWJ 13
2012/3: POC 4 games, AWJ 15

You'd have to be a very special kind of disingenuous to claim those as 'similar'

23 v 43.

Eh, Paul O'Connell played 8 games of rugby in 12/13 season because he was injured (and for about 2 seasons before that he was nursing a back injury).

Look at last season when he has been mainly fit.
14/15 - 10 League & 6 European = 16.

PhilBB wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Yes the IRFU places limits that stops coaches picking a handful of players at times, its so bad that the WRU have adopted a similar approach

It harms the league because many of these players play more games than a number England and Frances front line players

Which players?

Ben Youngs, Chris Robshaw and other first choice England players all played a similar amount of club games as their Irish counterparts

The stats are readily available GO FIND THEM

You've gone from 'more games' to 'similar'. It seems that you aren't even confident yourself.

Funny that.

A said play more than a number of the front line players in Robshaw and Youngs case its a similar amount in some cases they play more than some Irish players and in some case less hence why I said similar

There was even chat that POC might retire, due to his injuries. Bod has had a career threatening injury which needed surgery, and which would have prevented him playing for Leinster.

PhilBB wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Ben Youngs, Chris Robshaw and other first choice England players all played a similar amount of club games as their Irish counterparts

The stats are readily available GO FIND THEM

In the league, I've got POC 23 vs AWJ 43 over three years.

Robshaw's Harlequins stats are shown as minutes played, rather than games.

2014/5 1,274
2013/4 1,733
2012/3 1,444

Do you have these broken down by games rather than minutes? I'm sure that you do as you'll have doubled checked this before mentioning Robshaw.

http://www.quins.co.uk/team/players/chris-robshaw/2014-15/#

APPEARANCES16
16
SEASON TRIES2
2
MINUTES1,274
1,274

If you bothered looking a bit harder you'd see them but thats too complicated

Robshaw's Harlequins stats are shown as minutes played, rather than games.

2014/5 1,274   POC:1268 Mins    AWJ   1360
2013/4 1,733   POC:1254 Mins    AWJ   1354
2012/3 1,444   Injured[/quote]

Do you have these broken down by games rather than minutes? I'm sure that you do as you'll have doubled checked this before mentioning Robshaw.

Looks like POC has a fairly set amount of time he plays every year. A big selling point of the IRFU to keep players in Ireland [/quote]

Munchkin wrote:All Unions interfere with selection, and so for you to single out the IRFU as 'interfering', I take you to mean the above, although you didn't actually say 'interfere' until after my reply to you.

The point being, Phil, is that for you to convince me of your assertion, you would need to clearly demonstrate that the IRFU interferes with selection unfairly, at odds with the policies of other Unions, even if in keeping with Regulation 9.

Regulation 9. The one that states Northern Hemisphere sides play no more than 11 games (in accordance with 'Right to Release'). Three in Autumn. Not four, like Wales

Oh, I see. Your rule is that I must convince you. Hadn't I mentioned interfere or a synonym of that earlier? Sure?

marty2086 wrote:

http://www.quins.co.uk/team/players/chris-robshaw/2014-15/#

APPEARANCES16
16
SEASON TRIES2
2
MINUTES1,274
1,274

If you bothered looking a bit harder you'd see them but thats too complicated

Is that League appearances or total?

Sin é wrote:
14/15 - 10 League & 6 European = 16.

10 versus 15 is not similar in any sense. Will you admit that?

marty2086 wrote:
A said play more than a number of the front line players in Robshaw and Youngs case its a similar amount in some cases they play more than some Irish players and in some case less hence why I said similar

Can I have that in English? It doesn't make sense.

Was your point particular to Robshaw or not?

Sin é wrote:

Looks like POC has a fairly set amount of time he plays every year. A big selling point of the IRFU to keep players in Ireland

[/quote]

Yes, that and the huge salaries (that some chap dismissed earlier without offering any counter) and that tax loophole. Good on them, I say.

PhilBB wrote:

marty2086 wrote:
What decision was made by the IRFU?

Of when players can and cannot play during the season.

Looks, to me, very much like a post about interference

PhilBB wrote:

Munchkin wrote:All Unions interfere with selection, and so for you to single out the IRFU as 'interfering', I take you to mean the above, although you didn't actually say 'interfere' until after my reply to you.

The point being, Phil, is that for you to convince me of your assertion, you would need to clearly demonstrate that the IRFU interferes with selection unfairly, at odds with the policies of other Unions, even if in keeping with Regulation 9.

Regulation 9. The one that states Northern Hemisphere sides play no more than 11 games (in accordance with 'Right to Release'). Three in Autumn. Not four, like Wales

Oh, I see. Your rule is that I must convince you. Hadn't I mentioned interfere or a synonym of that earlier? Sure?

It isn't my rule. You don't know how debate works. The first rule in any debate is that those who make the positive claim provide the evidence (see under 'Burden of Proof'). By evidence I mean facts.

So what about actually addressing the points I made, and provide evidence of Ireland interfering with the Provinces teams selections, beyond that which is reasonable. You could try comparing Ireland/Provinces with Wales/Regions. Wales, the team that has four AI's

Munchkin wrote:

It isn't my rule. You don't know how debate works. The first rule in any debate is that those who make the positive claim provide the evidence (see under 'Burden of Proof'). By evidence I mean facts.

So how did that work out for you when you claimed the region's wilfully undermined attempts to resolve the new European competition formats?

Stone Motif wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

It isn't my rule. You don't know how debate works. The first rule in any debate is that those who make the positive claim provide the evidence (see under 'Burden of Proof'). By evidence I mean facts.

So how did that work out for you when you claimed the region's wilfully undermined attempts to resolve the new European competition formats?

No, I didn't. Try again.

Munchkin wrote:

It struck me at the time that the RRW were complaining about something that they were at fault for, along with WRU. I feel the same now.

The prolonged Euro war meant all were uncertain as to the future of any European competition, and confirmation would have been impossible. RRW played there part in that, and then had the brass neck to complain about it, as if it's the fault of WRU, and how on earth can the income and distribution be confirmed for a competition that didn't yet exist?

The number of teams participating in the PRO12? RRW were the ones threatening to leave, and in doing so were also putting at risk potential sponsorship and broadcasting deals.

Er, yes you did.

Post my comment.

Munchkin wrote:Post my comment.

What, again. Scroll up, yo

Stone Motif wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Post my comment.

What, again. Scroll up, yo

You haven't posted the comment you claim I made.

This is your claim; '.....you claimed the region's wilfully undermined attempts to resolve the new European competition formats?'

I said nothing about resolving new European competition formats. My point was that the Regions played their part in the uncertainty over the existence of any Euro competition (jumping into bed with PRL). And then there's the fact that the fight between the WRU and the Regions created an uncertainty over the next seasons PRO12 league. Something else that they were moaning about, yet it was the Welsh infighting that was mostly responsible.

Here's the complaints of RRW that I was responding to:

* The existence and structure of any European Competition for the Period 14/15 to 18/19

* The income and distribution from any such competition over that period.

* The number of teams participating in the Pro12 league over the period 14/15 to 18/19

* The income and distribution from the Pro12 league over that period, or even the confirmation of a main sponsor.

They played their part in that uncertainty, and more so in the uncertainty over the PRO12.

Munchkin wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Post my comment.

What, again. Scroll up, yo

You haven't posted the comment you claim I made.

This is your claim; '.....you claimed the region's wilfully undermined attempts to resolve the new European competition formats?'

I said nothing about resolving new European competition formats. My point was that the Regions played their part in the uncertainty over the existence of any Euro competition (jumping into bed with PRL). And then there's the fact that the fight between the WRU and the Regions created an uncertainty over the next seasons PRO12 league. Something else that they were moaning about, yet it was the Welsh infighting that was mostly responsible.

Goalpost spectacularly shifted. You wrote nonsense without reference to the fact that they were not involved in the Euro negotiations and the prize tw $nt that was, had actively worked to shut them down

Stone Motif wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

Munchkin wrote:Post my comment.

What, again. Scroll up, yo

You haven't posted the comment you claim I made.

This is your claim; '.....you claimed the region's wilfully undermined attempts to resolve the new European competition formats?'

I said nothing about resolving new European competition formats. My point was that the Regions played their part in the uncertainty over the existence of any Euro competition (jumping into bed with PRL). And then there's the fact that the fight between the WRU and the Regions created an uncertainty over the next seasons PRO12 league. Something else that they were moaning about, yet it was the Welsh infighting that was mostly responsible.

Goalpost spectacularly shifted.  You wrote nonsense without reference to the fact that they were not involved in the Euro negotiations and the prize tw $nt that was, had actively worked to shut them down

They didn't need to be involved in the Euro negotiations. Comment removed* Why can't you understand that? They could, and they did, help influence the negotiations by their actions. They played their part in the uncertainty over the Euro (Siding with PRL. Threatening to walk out of PRO12, etc.). That is all I have claimed.

It's easy to see why a few of you are so caught up in nonsense conspiracy theories. You make it up as you drift along....

* I removed a comment as it was both unnecessary and false.

P.s the same 'prize ****' that offered the Regions a loan to help ensure they didn't fold? The WRU had their part to play in all this. I'm not denying that.

Munchkin wrote:

They didn't need to be involved in the Euro negotiations. Comment removed* Why can't you understand that? They could, and they did, help influence the negotiations by their actions. They played their part in the uncertainty over the Euro (Siding with PRL. Threatening to walk out of PRO12, etc.). That is all I have claimed.

It's easy to see why a few of you are so caught up in nonsense conspiracy theories. You make it up as you drift along....

* I removed a comment as it was both unnecessary and false.

P.s the same 'prize ****' that offered the Regions a loan to help ensure they didn't fold? The WRU had their part to play in all this. I'm not denying that.

What would you have done, with an untrustworthy egotist threatening to shut down your business?

PhilBB wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

http://www.quins.co.uk/team/players/chris-robshaw/2014-15/#

APPEARANCES16
16
SEASON TRIES2
2
MINUTES1,274
1,274

If you bothered looking a bit harder you'd see them but thats too complicated

Is that League appearances or total?

That's total, the same number as POC with 10 league games each and 6 in the ERCC its not hard to look these up yourself s you've asked others to do on here

PhilBB wrote:

marty2086 wrote:
A said play more than a number of the front line players in Robshaw and Youngs case its a similar amount in some cases they play more than some Irish players and in some case less hence why I said similar

Can I have that in English? It doesn't make sense.

Was your point particular to Robshaw or not?

Its not that difficult to decipher

The original post was general the second was a bit more specific but you either know this and are trying to be difficult or are just thick

Stone Motif wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

They didn't need to be involved in the Euro negotiations. Comment removed* Why can't you understand that? They could, and they did, help influence the negotiations by their actions. They played their part in the uncertainty over the Euro (Siding with PRL. Threatening to walk out of PRO12, etc.). That is all I have claimed.

It's easy to see why a few of you are so caught up in nonsense conspiracy theories. You make it up as you drift along....

* I removed a comment as it was both unnecessary and false.

P.s the same 'prize ****' that offered the Regions a loan to help ensure they didn't fold? The WRU had their part to play in all this. I'm not denying that.

What would you have done, with an untrustworthy egotist threatening to shut down your business?

Somewhere amongst my comments is one that states that I wasn't really wanting to get into the rights and wrongs of it. My point about them complaining was that they were as much a part of what they were complaining about as anyone else. Right or wrong.

There were times that I thought the same as you. That the WRU wanted to close down the Regions. If the WRU could have afforded to close down the Regions they probably would have, but I don't believe they could. Why would they give the loan to the Regions if they wanted them shut down? The WRU could also have been held liable, by PRO12, if they failed to enter teams in the PRO12. So as much as the Regions hand was being forced by time, so to the WRU.

In answer to your question, 'what would you have done?', I would fight tooth and nail for my business. Whether you agree with it or not, the Regions could have opted to continue on with the remaining 5 years of the PA. It's my opinion that they tried to take advantage of the fallout in Europe, and I strongly suspect that PRL were behind that. That is purely my opinion though.

In the end, the Regions didn't really get a good deal with the WRU, or with the new Euro competition.

Stone Motif wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

They didn't need to be involved in the Euro negotiations. Comment removed* Why can't you understand that? They could, and they did, help influence the negotiations by their actions. They played their part in the uncertainty over the Euro (Siding with PRL. Threatening to walk out of PRO12, etc.). That is all I have claimed.

It's easy to see why a few of you are so caught up in nonsense conspiracy theories. You make it up as you drift along....

* I removed a comment as it was both unnecessary and false.

P.s the same 'prize ****' that offered the Regions a loan to help ensure they didn't fold? The WRU had their part to play in all this. I'm not denying that.

What would you have done, with an untrustworthy egotist threatening to shut down your business?

Something medieval.

Stone Motif wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

They didn't need to be involved in the Euro negotiations. Comment removed* Why can't you understand that? They could, and they did, help influence the negotiations by their actions. They played their part in the uncertainty over the Euro (Siding with PRL. Threatening to walk out of PRO12, etc.). That is all I have claimed.

It's easy to see why a few of you are so caught up in nonsense conspiracy theories. You make it up as you drift along....

* I removed a comment as it was both unnecessary and false.

P.s the same 'prize ****' that offered the Regions a loan to help ensure they didn't fold? The WRU had their part to play in all this. I'm not denying that.

What would you have done, with an untrustworthy egotist threatening to shut down your business?

How are the regions in such a position that someone shut their business down?
Oh, thats right, they are failing as business ventures and they expect the WRU to bail them out!

Sin é wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

They didn't need to be involved in the Euro negotiations. Comment removed* Why can't you understand that? They could, and they did, help influence the negotiations by their actions. They played their part in the uncertainty over the Euro (Siding with PRL. Threatening to walk out of PRO12, etc.). That is all I have claimed.

It's easy to see why a few of you are so caught up in nonsense conspiracy theories. You make it up as you drift along....

* I removed a comment as it was both unnecessary and false.

P.s the same 'prize ****' that offered the Regions a loan to help ensure they didn't fold? The WRU had their part to play in all this. I'm not denying that.

What would you have done, with an untrustworthy egotist threatening to shut down your business?

How are the regions in such a position that someone shut their business down?
Oh, thats right, they are failing as business ventures and they expect the WRU to bail them out!

Between this post and Jordi Murphy little rant I'm starting to wonder if there is an Irishman alive that doesn't come out with these revisionist absurdities

Stone Motif wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

They didn't need to be involved in the Euro negotiations. Comment removed* Why can't you understand that? They could, and they did, help influence the negotiations by their actions. They played their part in the uncertainty over the Euro (Siding with PRL. Threatening to walk out of PRO12, etc.). That is all I have claimed.

It's easy to see why a few of you are so caught up in nonsense conspiracy theories. You make it up as you drift along....

* I removed a comment as it was both unnecessary and false.

P.s the same 'prize ****' that offered the Regions a loan to help ensure they didn't fold? The WRU had their part to play in all this. I'm not denying that.

What would you have done, with an untrustworthy egotist threatening to shut down your business?

How are the regions in such a position that someone shut their business down?
Oh, thats right, they are failing as business ventures and they expect the WRU to bail them out!

Between this post and Jordi Murphy little rant I'm starting to wonder if there is an Irishman alive that doesn't come out with these revisionist absurdities

So are you saying the Regions are successful business ventures?

marty2086 wrote:So are you saying the Regions are successful business ventures?

I think they could be if they were allowed. The WRU in the past have kept sticking their noses into things, like stopping Ospreys playing a match against Samoa, and keeping all the TV money the regions earn to themselves and not paying a decent rate to take away players for team Wales.

Hopefully this has now changed.

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:So are you saying the Regions are successful business ventures?

I think they could be if they were allowed. The WRU in the past have kept sticking their noses into things, like stopping Ospreys playing a match against Samoa, and keeping all the TV money the regions earn to themselves and not paying a decent rate to take away players for team Wales.

Hopefully this has now changed.

So all those in charge went in blind without knowing what they were getting themselves into?

A game against Samoa must be a real money spinner

The agreements between the two parties are negotiated not enforced and RRW are part of all agreements so agreeing to something then complaining about it is a moronic thing to do

Marty, are you not listening to what people are telling you on here ? Roger Lewis tried to make the regions fail. He was hamstringing them left right and center. He did not want them to get too powerful.

LordDowlais wrote:Marty, are you not listening to what people are telling you on here ? Roger Lewis tried to make the regions fail. He was hamstringing them left right and center. He did not want them to get too powerful.

Are you not listening? All tv revenue had to be negotiated and agreed to by RRW at different stages so they accepted a percentage or set amount then come out and complain about it how is that Lewis trying to make them fail?

You say he wanted them to fail? What good does that do the WRU as they then lose their representatives in the Pro12 and ERCC/HC which results in fines if they don't replace them, all players become free agents which potentially loses them a chunk of the national squad and not to mention the lost revenue etc.

Your argument doesn't hold up to logic, did he try to limit their power? More than likely but why would he want them getting too powerful?

Marty, I cannot do this with you. you are counter arguing against something that actually happened. It is almost the same as you trying to tell me that yesterday never happened. Look, have a look online about the war between the regions and the WRU, that will tell you everything you need to know.

LordDowlais wrote:Marty, I cannot do this with you. you are counter arguing against something that actually happened. It is almost the same as you trying to tell me that yesterday never happened. Look, have a look online about the war between the regions and the WRU, that will tell you everything you need to know.

Ok how did the WRU screw the regions on tv money?

marty2086 wrote:Ok how did the WRU screw the regions on tv money?

They were holding it back, paying it in dribs and drabs, using it to finance the stadium debt. They were just being @rsey as hell with it.