6N Round 3: Scotland v Italy, 28 February

First topic message reminder :

  
SCOTLAND v ITALY
Saturday 28 February 2015
KO 14:30 (GMT)
BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh

Live on BBC1

Referee: George Clancy (IRFU)
AR1: Romain Poite (FFR)
AR2: Leighton Hodges (WRU)
TMO: Graham Hughes (RFU)

A. Teams:

1. SCOTLAND

15 Stuart Hogg
14 Tommy Seymour
13 Mark Bennett
12 Alex Dunbar
11 Sean Lamont
10 Peter Horne
09 Greig Laidlaw (capt)

01 Alasdair Dickinson
02 Ross Ford
03 Euan Murray
04 Tim Swinson
05 Jonny Gray
06 Rob Harley
07 Blair Cowan
08 Johnnie Beattie

16 Fraser Brown
17 Ryan Grant
18 Geoff Cross
19 Ben Toolis
20 Hamish Watson
21 Sam Hidalgo-Clyne
22 Greig Tonks
23 Matt Scott

2. ITALY

15 Luke McLean
14 Michele Visentin
13 Luca Morisi
12 Enrico Bacchin
11 Giovambattista Venditti
10 Kelly Haimona
09 Edoardo Gori

01 Matias Aguero
02 Leonardo Ghiraldini
03 Dario Chistolini
04 George Fabio Biagi
05 Joshua Furno
06 Francesco Minto
07 Simone Favaro
08 Sergio Parisse (capt)

16 Andrea Manici
17 Alberto De Marchi
18 Lorenzo Cittadini
19 Marco Fuser
20 Samuela Vunisa
21 Guglielmo Palazzani
22 Tommaso Allan
23 Giulio Bisegni.

B. Form (last 4 games):

1. SCOTLAND

15/02/15 - Scotland 23 - 26 Wales

07/02/15 - France 15 - 8 Scotland

22/11/14 - Scotland 37 - 12 Tonga

15/11/14 - Scotland 16 - 24 New Zealand

2. ITALY

14/02/15 - England 47 - 17 Italy

07/02/15 - Italy 3 - 26 Ireland

22/11/14 - Italy 6–22 South Africa

14/11/14 - Italy 18–20 Argentina

C. Head to Head:

21 Played 21

14 Wins 7

7 Losses 14

0 Draws 0

40 Tries 28

30 Conversions 23

58 Penalties 50

5 Drop Goals 6

475 Points 365

MacKnocked-on wrote:Looks like Welsh is out for the remainder of the 6Ns due to a hand injury that needs an operation. Reid and Richie Gray both getting scans on injuries today.

SHC is showing signs of concussion as well (wonder how that happened!!). Thankfully we have a few weeks before the Italy game.

cakeordeath wrote:

MacKnocked-on wrote:Looks like Welsh is out for the remainder of the 6Ns due to a hand injury that needs an operation. Reid and Richie Gray both getting scans on injuries today.

SHC is showing signs of concussion as well (wonder how that happened!!). Thankfully we have a few weeks before the Italy game.

Only two weeks until Italy so these concussion issues may well affect the team selection depending on how bad they are.

What I mean is there will be time to fully assess him.

Kelly Brown vs Bath: Great commitment.



My hand's sore just watching that.

Nematode wrote:

My hand's sore just watching that.

I've just watched the game again and SHC is above and beyond laidlaw

How many times do you guys watch a game???

I think some of you must do more video analysis than the professionals do

Well I was at the game and am thinking of watching it back tonight.

Will be very fitting to put myself through the torture given all the 50 shades of grey chat just now!

RDW_Scotland wrote:Well I was at the game and am thinking of watching it back tonight.

Will be very fitting to put myself through the torture given all the 50 shades of grey chat just now!

Might I suggest muting the commentary. Jiffy is an 'orrible little creature for the bulk of the match.

I was there but thought I'd check a few bits and I'm starting to think that Jackson was overawed by the game and wanted the game over ASAP particularly when it appeared that we'd get a big finish.

123456789 wrote:I was there but thought I'd check a few bits and I'm starting to think that Jackson was overawed by the game and wanted the game over ASAP particularly when it appeared that we'd get a big finish.

Who's Jackson?

I was rooting for you guys, and really hoped you would pull it through, however the bounce of the ball didn't favour you guys.

Glen Jackson the referee

Think I'm going to try and tear myself away from 606v2 for the next good few days - feeling a bit over-rugbyed what with 2 weeks of internationals and the Edinburgh vs Ospreys game. Think the frustration of the Wales game has made me want a wee break from it. See you later!

Anyway it's time for me to get over the annual feelings of aggression about the Welsh game as, although their fans are great, the welsh team and management irk me and look forward to the Italian game. We need to batter them and then beat the English and Irish. If the team had no restriction i.e squad selection then I'd go for:

1. Dickinson
2. Ford
3. Murray
4. Gray
5. Gray
6. Harley
7. Barclay (C)
8. Denton
9. SHC
10. Russell
11. Seymour
12. Dunbar
13. Bennett
14. Maitland
15. Hogg

16. Grant
17. Welsh
18. Brown
19. Toolis
20. Brown
21. Laidlaw
22. Scott
23. Lamont

That's the best selected Scotland team I've seen in about six years, 123! Am pleased that by and large, your coaches have not tended to view life as you do.

Biltong wrote:I was rooting for you guys, and really hoped you would pull it through, however the bounce of the ball didn't favour you guys.

Not to worry, we have some good South Africans qualifying in time for the World Cup. As it happens, just in time to beat......South Africa.....

123456789 wrote:Anyway it's time for me to get over the annual feelings of aggression about the Welsh game as, although their fans are great, the welsh team and management irk me and look forward to the Italian game. We need to batter them and then beat the English and Irish. If the team had no restriction i.e squad selection then I'd go for:

1. Dickinson
2. Ford
3. Murray
4. Gray
5. Gray
6. Harley
7. Barclay (C)
8. Denton
9. SHC
10. Russell
11. Seymour
12. Dunbar
13. Bennett
14. Maitland
15. Hogg

16. Grant
17. Welsh
18. Brown
19. Toolis
20. Brown
21. Laidlaw
22. Scott
23. Lamont

just noticed barclay is still 28 with 43 caps. he really should be in, he could play at this and the next world cup ffs.

what about watson, he has looked v good no ? i want to see him start against italy as i do SHC.

Not sure I would replace Cowan. Sure, he gives away penalties and got on the wrong side of Jackson (Webb's amateur dramatics assisted there), but he works like a dog and makes a proper pain of himself. Doesn't deserve to be dropped.

I'd like to see the following changes personally:

- Murray back in with Cross back on the bench (Welsh is injured anyway).
- Ben Toolis in for Jim Hamilton. If Richie Gray doesn't make it I would give Toolis his debut. He works harder than Hamilton, has better discipline and is a very handy ball carrier.
- Beattie out if Ashe or Denton can prove fitness. In an ideal world I'd introduce Ali Hogg for the rest of the tournament but appreciate that is not going to happen.
- Stroksoch out, Kelly Brown onto the bench.
- Laidlaw swaps with SH-C.
- Lamont out for Fife or Maitland (if he proves fitness).
- Visser our for Seymout (if fit).

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Biltong wrote:I was rooting for you guys, and really hoped you would pull it through, however the bounce of the ball didn't favour you guys.

Not to worry, we have some good South Africans qualifying in time for the World Cup. As it happens, just in time to beat......South Africa.....

Sadly you guys aren't the only ones stocking up on South Africans

Biltong wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

Biltong wrote:I was rooting for you guys, and really hoped you would pull it through, however the bounce of the ball didn't favour you guys.

Not to worry, we have some good South Africans qualifying in time for the World Cup. As it happens, just in time to beat......South Africa.....

Sadly you guys aren't the only ones stocking up on South Africans

I do fear for the game in South Africa if this continues. In the name of balance I'd be delighted to suggest a few SQ players you could nationalise, although most of our props weigh less than Etzebeth's right forearm.

Bad news - Finn Russell has been cited.

Baws.

Wonder who instigated the citing?

"Independent Citing Commissioner", apparently (according to the Beeb).

I wonder if Davies, Jenkins and Webb have been....

One can only hope Jenkins gets cited.
For those who haven't seen it https://twitter.com/andymcgeady/status/567051677396897792

RDW_Scotland wrote:Bad news - Finn Russell has been cited.

Baws.

I'm not really surprised to be honest.

Greg Tonks could get his debut at 10 against Italy. That's quite scary!

Jared Payne got two weeks, I'd rather Horne than Tonks, equally poor but suits the way we are trying to play better on the bright side we could play Kyle Traynor's great grandmother at 10 and he'd still be better than that Kelly highmoaner that Italy have

Horne over Tonks??

Tonks has been regularly playing at 10 for Edinburgh since around November, and although he was shaky to start with really grew into his game and had a good run of games before the 6N.

I'd be fairly confident with Tonks at 10, much less so with Horne.

Maybe not I'd had no idea Tonks had been playing 10 I thought Heathcote was your first choice?

Assuming (optimistically) that the ban is 2 weeks, is that two weeks chronologically regardless of whether there are matches? If so, that would let Tiny Dancer be available, duly chastened, for the Ireland/England games.

Surely they cannot think that this was worse than the Payne incident? It was daft, nothing else. Russell found himself in no man's land - neither challenging nor getting out of the way - and Biggar fell over him. Not sure of the various determining factors but that was surely about as soft as that kind of challenge gets.

123456789 wrote:Maybe not I'd had no idea Tonks had been playing 10 I thought Heathcote was your first choice?

Nah Tonks played most of Edinburghs games at 10 the last few months

In the meantime we have a scrum half who is showing signs of concussion because of a clothesline tackle and a full back, who luckily escaped serious injury. I am sure we will see a citing for those real soon.

cakeordeath wrote:In the meantime we have a scrum half who is showing signs of concussion because of a clothesline tackle and a full back, who luckily escaped serious injury. I am sure we will see  a citing for those real soon.

None of this makes me feel any better

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

cakeordeath wrote:In the meantime we have a scrum half who is showing signs of concussion because of a clothesline tackle and a full back, who luckily escaped serious injury. I am sure we will see  a citing for those real soon.

None of this makes me feel any better

It would make me feel better, because I would then have more faith in those running the game.

RDW_Scotland wrote:I wonder if Davies, Jenkins and Webb have been....

Obviously not, it will be interesting what the independent (like the ref) citing will determine, I thought was Red and could not be compared to Davies who went for the ball and did not take the legs away to tip the player.

cakeordeath wrote:On a very slight tangent, the one thing which annoyed me most about Russell yesterday wasn't that he was poor. It is his attitude. The dancing, the joking about and especially the laughing and smiling on the bench after getting yellow card.

Thecamera shot I saw he was smiling as he commiserated with the other guy yellow carded. He is just a happy laughing dancing sort of bloke

from what I saw he ran with his hands ready to catch the ball and his eyes on the ball and the pictures I've seen since confirms that by the time Biggar came into his eye line if he'd kept the line he was running at the height he was running he would have been knocked out by Biggar's knees, which he would have been punished for, swerve out the way of Biggar leaving him a clear run in to score which he would have been coached never to do and we'd all be calling him a coward for or duck his head out of the way. It was right to give a penalty as he took the player out in the air but there was no malice involved, no one was injured and in what way could he have behaved differently and in what way could he act differently in the future regardless of the card or the ban it is simply ridiculous to give him a yellow card nod now to portray him as a monster, and Biggar and Warburton's words to the referee afterwards were pathetic. Yet Davies who can do no wrong in the eyes of some put his arm around Beattie on the air and took him to ground whilst attempting to catch the ball surely regardless of the consequences is just as deserving of a citing.

Apparently the citing commission is to determine how the tackle should have been penalised, i.e nothing/yellow/red, so hopefully there will be a comittee set up to look into each of the referees decisions.

cakeordeath wrote:On a very slight tangent, the one thing which annoyed me most about Russell yesterday wasn't that he was poor. It is his attitude. The dancing, the joking about and especially  the laughing and smiling on the bench after getting yellow card.

I agree, and post game he was grinning like he had just slotted the winning points, when in fact he was so slow at his conversion his side never got the chance to even play for the win

123456789 wrote:from what I saw he ran with his hands ready to catch the ball and his eyes on the ball and the pictures I've seen since confirms that by the time Biggar came into his eye line if he'd kept the line he was running at the height he was running he would have been knocked out by Biggar's knees, which he would have been punished for, swerve out the way of Biggar leaving him a clear run in to score which he would have been coached never to do and we'd all be calling him a coward for or duck his head out of the way. It was right to give a penalty as he took the player out in the air but there was no malice involved, no one was injured and in what way could he have behaved differently and in what way could he act differently in the future regardless of the card or the ban it is simply ridiculous to give him a yellow card nod now to portray him as a monster, and Biggar and Warburton's words to the referee afterwards were pathetic. Yet Davies who can do no wrong in the eyes of some put his arm around Beattie on the air and took him to ground whilst attempting to catch the ball surely regardless of the consequences is just as deserving of a citing.

Apparently the citing commission is to determine how the tackle should have been penalised, i.e nothing/yellow/red, so hopefully there will be a comittee set up to look into each of the referees decisions.

spot on. as i said on another post if biggar had missed the catch and slammed into russell on the ground, biggar would have not have been awarded a yellow card, but a red card himself for dangerous play !

It is obvious he will get a ban, is there is any justice it will be a 1 week ban and he will be available for the Italy game.
However if he eats all the biscuits while moonwalking we will be lucky to have him back for next years 6 nations.

Richie Gray out for 12 weeks.

Captain_Sensible wrote:Richie Gray out for 12 weeks.

Oh FFS - it's times like this that we really need to remove the swear filter!

I suspect this will mean Hamilton coming back in, which is a shame.

Saying that - are Toolis and Jonny too similar? i.e. both number 5 locks.

I'd still give them a crack against Italy though.

Hamilton is as much to blame for our loss on Sunday as anyone else. We know he is a hardman violent penalty magnet, but what the hell went through his head when he started a scrap with seconds left on the clock and us with a chance to have a restart and win the game?

Toolis and Gray Jr to start

Well, if it was a choice between losing Richie or Jonny, then I would rather the older brother. Sorry Richie.

With Toolis, we will lose a couple of stones in weight, but gain a little in dog and athleticism.

Do we think Cotter will hand a debut to Toolis?

Also when is Gilchrist due back?

I think Toolis would cope fine against Italy - they aren't the biggest pack, and we're probably going to play quite an open game against them - but as much as it pains me to say it I'd probably go with Hamilton against England for his extra bulk and mauling ability.

Although saying that the Italy goal kicker is absolutely mince, so we'd get away with Hamilton's repeated penalties!

As expected, Swinson has been called up to replace Richie.

The SRU has also confirmed that Reid has suffered a tear to his medial collateral ligament, which doesn't sound good.

Given we're down to two loosehead props no young Mr Sutherland might end up getting capped before the tournament is up!

RDW_Scotland wrote:As expected, Swinson has been called up to replace Richie.

The SRU has also confirmed that Reid has suffered a tear to his medial collateral ligament, which doesn't sound good.

Given we're down to two loosehead props no young Mr Sutherland might end up getting capped before the tournament is up!

I cry just reading that one. Not only is it very sore it's also very serious. Thats what ended my involvement with amateur rugger.