6N 2019: Italy v Ireland, Round 3, 23 February

So who gets to play in this one? Who needs a rest?

Sexton has joined the injured list, but Schmidt says he should have recovered from his HIA in time. But is this the match where Schmidt wants to give Carbery a proper start, and possibly have Carty on the bench? POM looked in fine fettle but could he benefit from a couple of weeks off for his rib injury?

On the basis of the Scotland match, the depth held up fairly well with the likes of Kilcoyne coming through stronger and taking the place of Jack McGrath, and Roux and Dillane holding their ends up at scrum, lineout and in the loose. Conan got through a lot of tackles 18 and missed 1. And Chris Farrell got another full 80 minutes without mishap.

As ever, Schmidt won’t go too far in making too many changes, and he’ll want to come away from Rome with 5 points to keep them in the hunt if it goes down to the wire on the final weekend.

He might have Tadgh Beirne or Iain Henderson back for this one, and possibly Kieran Marmion with Munster v Kings, Ospreys v Ulster and Connacht v Cheetahs next weekend to give them some game time if necessary.

Henshaw just had a dead leg, so he should be good to go. Not sure abut Ringrose and his hamstring.

Will Addison is another who needs to be seen although a starting spot may be out of reach.

Who would you have in your 23 allowing for some of the above injured being passed fit to play?

I’ve gone for provincial partnerships where possible in my selection:

McGrath, Best, Porter
Henderson, Roux
SOB, Ruddock/Murphy, Conan
Murray, Carbery
Henshaw, Farrell
Larmour, Stockdale, Kearney

Reps: Scannell, Kilcoyne, Ryan, Ruddock/Murphy, Dillane, Marmion, Carty, Addison

Nobody cares we will win regardless even if Nial Francis starts as out half. We have lost the big one our form is pretty poor and if we lose to either France (possible) or Wales (probable) the chances of getting a SF in the WC are looking less likely.

Other coaches are figuring out how to play us. England beat us easily (it wasnt even a competition) the blueprint is out there our distant relations with the funny accents who think they are a seperate country but are too timid to do anything about it nearly found us out only that their players are not as good as the orcs.

England's blueprint was to load the field with monstrous lads that can steamroll. Good trick but not exactly a mathematically genius brain wave from Jones.
Joe's biggest problem is that he's SIZE blind. He truly believes all his players are battletank giants - and they ain't, Joe - they just ain,t.

Perfect game to start Scannell with Cronin on the bench. Best has been the most consistent Hooker in the 6N but Scannell and Cronin need to be tested with a half each.

From here on in if Ireland don!t want to throw in the towel (and I'm not so sure they haven't) they need to put some serious scores onboard. England destroyed France and they'll destroy Italy. They're not just winning, they are playing to a level that honours their ranking or perhaps shows contempt for their ranking. Teams at the highest level must play to the standards of their ranking. The only reason I'd forgive Ireland's hopelessly toothless performance against England (as if not expecting England to be England) is if the coaching team and players knew in advance that their conditioning and chosen preparation was unlikely to be strong enough at the start of this contest. There!s a hint of long term (albeit painful) planning when you consider Schmidt dropped in two strategic players (Sexton and Murray) into a game they simply weren't ready for. Would Carbery and Cooney have handled the reins better? Who is to say but it seems to me that to an extent, Joe knowingly risked the game to fast track the progress of two players he probably will rely on plenty this year. And what an unforgiving 'return to play' game he gave them. But he isn't a fool, and he must have anticipated the mood and form this regenerated England side are in. So have Ireland sacrificed this contest to be once and for all in the right frame of mind and condition to finally do more in the next World Cup than we've ever done before?
In any case' 1st or 2nd place is still miraculously on the table despite our best period of bad form in 12 months or more. With England meeting Wales next - well it's almost a cert one of them will drop a game, which if we don't completely shame ourselves and lose to Italy, then that gives us real hope of recovering some face provided we can improve our form in that period. But we'll have to be serious about stacking up some serious points. The mentality of winning won't be enough. We have to prove again that we're deserving of a high world ranking - and the by-now proverbial and cliched Strength in Depth theory will have to go prove it.
After the start we've had, making it to 2nd would be quite a big statement and I think it would be perhaps the perfect 6N recipe in a WC year - big shock and deflation (actually probably needed) and then some semblance of a rebirth of form and belief.

I think Ireland should win their remaining games. Wales and France will of course be really tough but Ireland need to be able to beat teams like France at home and winning away on the last day against a side like Wales will give them the boost they need going into the RWC. Passing a challenge like that will give them a great boost IMO. The championship cant be won at this stage but second place would be a victory for me going into the RWC and after a grand slam winning 2018.

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:Nobody cares we will win regardless even if Nial Francis starts as out half. We have lost the big one our form is pretty poor and if we lose to either France (possible) or Wales (probable) the chances of getting a SF in the WC are looking less likely.

Other coaches are figuring out how to play us. England beat us easily (it wasnt even a competition) the blueprint is out there our distant relations with the funny accents who think they are a seperate country but are too timid to do anything about it nearly found us out only that their players are not as good as the orcs.

England were deserved winners but I wouldnt describe it as not even a competition. That's quite dramatic and not really true. Ireland will find a way to beat England again whether its next year or the year after. Ireland v England fixtures tend to go like that.

SecretFly wrote:From here on in if Ireland don!t want to throw in the towel (and I'm not so sure they haven't) they need to put some serious scores onboard.  

I think not securing a bonus point already in the past 2 games put to bed any slim chance of sneaking the title on points. We won't anyway as England will do the slam, I'm certain.

I do think we have a good chance of 2nd, which would be s decent achievement but we really need not just 3 wins now but 3 really good performances to build for the RWC, not to mention keep the spirits high with all 4 provinces in the KO stages in Europe.

It doesn't really get the juices flowing does it, this game?

No but it's difficult as it is a game we expect to win and win well.

A bit like last weekend it feels like there is more to lose than to win right now, win and it feels a bit underwhelming based on how successful we've been and lose and it is a crisis.

I suppose this must be what it feels like to be an AB fan...

Team prediction -

15 Kearney
14 Larmour
13 Farrell
12 Henshaw/Aki
11 Stockdale
10 Carbury
9 Murray
8 Conan
7 O'Brien
6 Ruddock
5 Roux
4 Dillane
3 Porter
2 Best(c)
1 Kilcoyne

Bench: Ryan, Scannell, McGrath, Ryan, Murphy, Blade, Carty, Addison

Collapse2005 wrote:It doesn't really get the juices flowing does it, this game?

If England lose to Wales with a bonus point, you'd still back them to reach 20 points. Ireland can get a maximum of 19 points.

Facing Italy when you are all but out of the Championship running is not an exciting prospect. There's only downside if you don't thrash them, but the upside of a bonus point and all that points difference you can win doesn't really exist.

I think Ireland are destined for third this year. Not a disaster to go from 1st to third. Lets not forget England won a slam in 2017, finished 5th in 2018 and will probably get a slam this year. Kind of means the tournament is pretty strong and therefore 3rd is a pass mark on route to the RWC.

Slam in 2016, unless I only dreamed that Ireland beat us in 2017.

LondonTiger wrote:Slam in 2016, unless I only dreamed that Ireland beat us in 2017.

Yeah you are absolutely right. Was just testing you to see if you were paying attention.

Nope it was 2016, we denied England the slam in 2017 and England went on a bit of a nose dive after that.

I was thinking this, this is a really critical run of games - the slam is gone, realistically the title with it.

I do think if we can dig in an win 4 games we can take a lot of positives, although the damage done in Dublin may take longer to rectify (one of the provinces beating Sarries in the HEC would go some way to).

If we do win our remain games and finish 2nd in some ways that might be a better outcome from the perspective of the RWC rather than having the baggage of back to back slam winners and the hype taht would follow.

3rd place wouldn't be a disaster but we'd be damaged by it I think, confidence wise, we need to finish on a win.

I think the game against Italy can't come soon enough actually. I think it's become a very important game - not in terms of winning it but in terms of what should be, if played in the right way, a morale booster and an adrenaline shot when really needed. We could of course lose but if we do then we're in serious territory anyway - but assuming we follow the bookies and win, it's the nature of the win that should be planned to get players enthused again. It really should be a game where a try goal is set and set high and players should be given the licence to hunt for it so that the pace and energy seldom dies for 80. The team needs to release the tension and stretch the lags and Italy is about the only side in the contest where lreland in particular can at least contemplate punishing them hard. But it isn't about Italy or points needed, it's about putting the mood to drive hard back in the minds of some pretty turgid guys up til now.

rodders wrote:Nope it was 2016, we denied England the slam in 2017 and England went on a bit of a nose dive after that.

I was thinking this, this is a really critical run of games - the slam is gone, realistically the title with it.

I do think if we can dig in an win 4 games we can take a lot of positives, although the damage done in Dublin may take longer to rectify (one of the provinces beating Sarries in the HEC would go some way to).

If we do win our remain games and finish 2nd in some ways that might be a better outcome from the perspective of the RWC rather than having the baggage of back to back slam winners and the hype taht would follow.

3rd place wouldn't be a disaster but we'd be damaged by it I think, confidence wise, we need to finish on a win.

I'm with you Rodders.

Problem with facing Italy in Round 3 is the rest weekends either side. Any players rested for this game may well have gone a month between matches.

Mind you that does not seem to harm teams. You have to go back to 2015 to find a side who played Italy in round 3 and then lost in round 4. That Scotland actually lost all 5 matches that season it perhaps says more about their form at the time.

Joe is a smart fella.... that thought of getting rid of some baggage must have come in to his mind at some point over the New year. It is some pressure off - everybody now talking about brilliant England and ambitious Wales.
Just the right mood for us to build on to Autumn.... unless of course we overdo I and come last!

Italian squad named, to meet up on Sunday. Interesting addition in Callum Braley the Gloucester scrum half and former England U20 captain (captained the "Itoje team" but was dropped for the final)




Props:
Simone FERRARI (Benetton Rugby, 19caps)
Andrea Lovotti (ZEBRE Club, 31caps) *
Titian EASTER (Benetton Rugby, 15caps)
Nicola QUAGLIO (Benetton Rugby, 9 caps) *
Cherif TRAORE ‘(Benetton Rugby, 7 caps) *


Hookers:
Luca BIGI (Benetton Rugby, 17 caps)
Leonardo GHIRALDINI (Stade Toulousian, 101 caps)

Second Row:
Dean BUDD (Benetton Rugby, 18 caps)
Federico RUZZA (Benetton Rugby, 9 caps) *
David SISI (ZEBRE Club, 2 ch)
Alessandro ZANNI (Benetton Rugby, 109 caps)

Back Row:
Marco BARBINI (Benetton Rugby, 3 caps)
Maxime Mbanda ‘(ZEBRE Club, 15 caps) *
Sebastian NEGRI (Benetton Rugby, 14 caps)
Sergio PARISSE (Stade Francais, 136 caps) – Captain
Abraham Jurgens Steyn (Benetton Rugby, 27 caps)
Jimmy TUIVAITI (ZEBRE Club, 2 caps)


Scrum Half:
Callum BRALEY (Gloucester Rugby, newcomer) – invited
Edoardo Gori (Benetton Rugby, 69 caps) *
William PALAZZANI (ZEBRE Club, 30 caps)
Tito TEBALDI (Benetton Rugby, 29 caps)

Flyhalf:
Thomas ALLAN (Benetton Rugby, 45 caps)
Charles REED (ZEBRE Club, 32 caps)
Ian MCKINLEY (Benetton Rugby, 6 caps)

Centre:
Michele CAMPAGNARO (Wasps, 40 caps) *
Thomas CASTLE (ZEBRE Club, 16 caps)
Luca MORISI (Benetton Rugby, 22 caps) *
Marco Zanon (Benetton Rugby, rookie) *

Back Three:
Giulio BISEGNI (ZEBRE Club, 11 caps)
Angelo ESPOSITO (Benetton Rugby, 17 caps)
Jayden HAYWARD (Benetton Rugby, 14 caps)
Edoardo Padovani (ZEBRE Club, 17 caps) *
Luca SPERANDIO (Benetton Rugby, 5 caps) *

Rumour is Cooney and Murphy have been made available for Ulster but not Addison
Suggest Marmion is straight into the 23 and that Addison will be there as well

I like Marmion but I feel that Cooney has more than deserved a start for Ireland. Thought he was excellent when he came on against Scotland, really sped up the Irish breakdown.

eirebilly wrote:I like Marmion but I feel that Cooney has more than deserved a start for Ireland. Thought he was excellent when he came on against Scotland, really sped up the Irish breakdown.

I don't think McGrath nor Cooney will be able to knock off Marmion from the 2nd spot at this late stage. Cooney is probably the best off them all at the moment but may not have enough time to state his claim.

Nope, Marmion shouldn't be straight back in. Cooley should get his shot at showing what he can do in this 6N... even from the subs bench. Right now though, Murray needs to get up to speed fast or we'll be had by one or two more teams. And if Murray does remain off colour, I hope Schmidt has the courage to start Cooney. Irish team is crying out for fast distribution now.

The thing is if he doesn't take Cooney to the WC he will have to take 3 9's and 3 10's and thus lose a back elsewhere.
Not saying he is better than McGrath but if not taken he loses a 4th centre (Farrell or Addison) or someone like Conway.
Not taking Addison or Conway also reduces the 15 cover
Missing a trick if you ask me

Or maybe Cooney has seen enough of the training patterns and Joe wants to get him match sharp?

Hopefully the case, but if her doesn't get genuine game time against Italy it will, probably, be too late

England were deserved winners but I wouldnt describe it as not even a competition. That's quite dramatic and not really true. Ireland will find a way to beat England again whether its next year or the year after. Ireland v England fixtures tend to go like that.


You maybe right, Ireland will find away to beat England may be. 


But Next year is not important, this year is what counts.


And Ireland did not win this year. They got well and truly beaten by a better team on the day.

Who cares. Its unlikely we will play england at the world cup anyway. Low enough odds. Could meet in the final and even if we do Ireland womt fear England at all because they jave the best track record in the 6 nations against England than any other side.

majesticimperialman wrote:
And Ireland did not win this year. They got well and truly beaten by a better team on the day.

That is true but I think it is interesting how much England rely on a handful of individual players - the V brothers, Farrell and Tuilagi in particular - to implement their game plan of using big men running short off Farrell and then when the defense narrows shifting the ball to the outside backs, where they have so much pace.

Farrell is teak tough but an Injury to Billy V and you are facing a different England team, likewise Teo offers nothing like the threat of Tuilagi either.

They are very effective at what they do but it is limited. I'm not sure if their main rivals will find a solution to deal with it by September but if England don't arrive with a clean bill of health then they may not have to....

Ireland got caught cold-start sleeping with dud flyhalf and scrum half by a really good and really charged England. No shame in that considering the way the year will pan out - better have the low form /injury concerns now than later. Plus, that psychological imperative in the minds of players - 'take it easy.... get on the plane. Oh please let me stay injury free to get on the plane.'
Ireland can play it much tougher than that game against England as no doubt England proved they can play it much tougher than last year when the roles and location were reversed.
The sides are at different stages - England with something to prove and wanting to lay a mental marker for potential WC opponents and most especially the ABs. Ireland have to try to manage their precious resources now to get as many focal players to theWC as possible.

So out of the 6N squad, the following players have been selected for PRO14 games this weekend:

Leinster: JackMcGrath, Andrew Porter
Connacht: Ultan Dillane, Caolin Blade, Jack Carty, Tom Farrell and Kieran Marmion returning from injury on the bench
Munster: John Ryan, Niall Scannell, Chris Farrell and Andrew Conway returning from injury
Ulster: John Cooney, Jordi Murphy and Iain Henderson returning from injury.

Are some getting game time for possible selection next week or is it only those remaining in camp?

Does Schmidt keep playing Murray and Sexton to get them back into form? Or does he bring Marmion back in and partner him with Carbery?
Will Jack McGrath get a bench slot instead of Kilcoyne?
With Henderson returning, will he partner with Roux with Dillane on the bench and give Ryan a rest?
Niall Scannell needs to get more test game time if he’s to continue to be third choice at hooker.

I see Sexton will be fit to face Italy. But in all honesty would his absence of made a difference to the out come of the game?

I honestly cannot see Ireland losing this game. with or with out Sexton.

No it wouldnt. He will probably start as he doesnt really seem match fit.

I think we have to start Carbury and Murray. Carbury needs experience and Murray is still playing himself into form. Sexton does look rusty himself though so I wonder if Joe will consider giving him 15-20 min from the bench.

Cooney and Carty look to be the form half backs at the minute and both are unlucky to be so far down the pecking order.

Lock is an interesting one, Henderson looked very sluggish against Ospreys, a few games away from fitness. By contrast Dillane was MOTM for Connacht, so I wonder if that may have swayed Joe's plans slightly?

Roux and Dillane to start, with Henderson off the bench might be an option and save Ryan for France.

McCloskey and Tom Farrell were very impressive again, if Chris Farrell is out either or both would be deserving of a call up to the 23.

Well it's heating up for the BIG game of the weekend, I see. Hope the Wales v England game gets a bit of an audience as it too looks a decent game on paper.....
Anyway, I'd pick Carberry - and tell him 'no messing about. Time to mature and prove you can outclass Sexton now, even in Sexton's prime form. No fireworks attempted unlessreally on - solid and strategic. No more excuses about only 'learning and being happy to be understudy. Time to really look to steal Sexton's job'
But I still say we need to keep an honest eye on winning this competition despite the bad start, and that means going for a high score. Murray, even at his best is not really the player for such a game. He's solid and physical and in reality he strategically slows games down rather than habitually ups the tempo. So for this Italy game, I wouldn't pick him, even though he obviously needs a lot of game time. But winning isn't enough here if the Championship is still winnable, and however remote that possibility now, it is still there to be won in theory. I'd go Cooney and Carbery and demand a hot tempo. Ireland needs to shrug off this sluggish hangover and this remains the game to do it in.

Jesus, can't get a word in here! Will you all just get a grip, calm the hell down and don't all talk at once! I'm selling my ticket for 3,000 bucks on the black market.... the crowds will be too much for me - game of the century.

Henderson cited for an incident in the Ospreys game.

We'll be down to too many Munstermen if this keeps up. A travesty if it happens. Them lads don't even know how to play rugby... too busy playing the ref.

LondonTiger wrote:Henderson cited for an incident in the Ospreys game.

To be honest it didn't look like much, probably he should have seen yellow for a neck roll.

If he does miss the game I wonder if Beirne will come in on the bench?

SecretFly wrote:We'll be down to too many Munstermen if this keeps up.  A travesty if it happens.  Them lads don't even know how to play rugby... too busy playing the ref.

Could be a blessing in disguise. The token Munster guys haven't been playing that well.

I guess the entire squad have been token Munstermen in the last two instalments if that's so. I was quite impressed by Munster at the weekend. Yes, it was the Southern Kings but there was no little endeavour, invention and smarts from Munster. In a game where they might be expected to go to sleep, they kept hungry.

Em"............ l'll disturb the silence with the big news that Henderson is back in contention.........


Crickets............

I heard Porter will be dropped from the squad in favour of Ryan.

SecretFly wrote:I guess the entire squad have been token Munstermen in the last two instalments if that's so.  I was quite impressed by Munster at the weekend.  Yes, it was the Southern Kings but there was no little endeavour, invention and smarts from Munster.  In a game where they might be expected to go to sleep, they kept hungry.

They also conceded 0 penalties, very impressive ...

I know, I know, Bam. Impressive stuff indeed, I saw all the Gifs!

Teams? Need to update my fantasy starting lineup. I've also been top of my respective league (Calgary's finest) since round 1 just so you know.

Ireland Teamed named -

15. Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster) 88 caps
14. Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster) 74 caps
13. Chris Farrell (Young Munster/Munster) 4 caps
12. Bundee Aki (Galwegians/Connacht) 14 caps
11. Jacob Stockdale (Lurgan/Ulster) 16 caps
10. Jonathan Sexton (St Marys College/Leinster) 80 caps (vc)
9. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster) 69 caps
1. Dave Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster) 26 caps
2. Sean Cronin (St Mary’s College/Leinster) 67 caps
3. Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster) 30 caps
4. Ultan Dillane (Corinthians/Connacht) 12 caps
5. Quinn Roux (Galwegians/Connacht) 10 caps
6. Peter O’Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster) 54 caps (c)
7. Sean O’Brien (UCD/Leinster) 54 caps
8. Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Ulster) 26 caps

Replacements
16. Niall Scannell (Dolphin/Munster) 11 caps
17. Jack McGrath (St Marys College/Leinster) 53 caps
18. John Ryan (Cork Constitution/Munster) 16 caps
19. Iain Henderson (Queens University/Ulster) 42 caps
20. Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster) 15 caps
21. John Cooney (Terenure College/Ulster) 6 caps
22. Jack Carty (Buccaneers/Connacht)*
23. Andrew Conway (Garryowen/Munster) 10 caps

Italy team to face Ireland:

15. Jayden Hayward (Benetton Rugby)
14. Edoardo Padovani (Zebre Rugby Club)
13. Michele Campagnaro (Wasps)
12. Luca Morisi (Benetton Rugby)
11. Angelo Esposito (Benetton Rugby)
10. Tommaso Allan (Benetton Rugby)
9. Tito Tebaldi (Benetton Rugby)

1. Andrea Lovotti (Zebre Rugby Club)
2. Leonardo Ghiraldini (Stade Toulousain) (c)
3. Simone Ferrari (Benetton Rugby)
4. Federico Ruzza (Benetton Rugby)
5. Dean Budd (Benetton Rugby)
6. Jimmy Tuivaiti (Zebre Rugby Club)
7. Maxime Mbandà (Zebre Rugby Club)
8. Braam Steyn (Benetton Rugby)


Replacements:

16. Luca Bigi (Benetton Rugby)
17. Cherif Traoré (Benetton Rugby)
18. Tiziano Pasquali (Benetton Rugby)
19. David Sisi (Zebre Rugby Club)
20. Alessandro Zanni (Benetton Rugby)
21. Guglielmo Palazzani (Zebre Rugby Club)
22. Ian McKinley (Benetton Rugby)
23. Tommaso Castello (Zebre Rugby Club)