6N Round 3: Scotland v Italy, 28 February

by **RDW** Sun 15 Feb 2015, 8:11 pm

First topic message reminder :

SCOTLAND v ITALY
Saturday 28 February 2015
KO 14:30 (GMT)
BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh

Live on BBC1

Referee: George Clancy (IRFU) 6N Round 3: Scotland v Italy, 28 February - Page 4 Gaah11

6N Round 3: Scotland v Italy, 28 February - Page 4 Gaah11

AR1: Romain Poite (FFR)
AR2: Leighton Hodges (WRU)
TMO: Graham Hughes (RFU)

A. Teams:

1. SCOTLAND
6N Round 3: Scotland v Italy, 28 February - Page 4 Susan_10

15 Stuart Hogg
14 Tommy Seymour
13 Mark Bennett
12 Alex Dunbar
11 Sean Lamont
10 Peter Horne
09 Greig Laidlaw (capt)

01 Alasdair Dickinson
02 Ross Ford
03 Euan Murray
04 Tim Swinson
05 Jonny Gray
06 Rob Harley
07 Blair Cowan
08 Johnnie Beattie

16 Fraser Brown
17 Ryan Grant
18 Geoff Cross
19 Ben Toolis
20 Hamish Watson
21 Sam Hidalgo-Clyne
22 Greig Tonks
23 Matt Scott

2. ITALY
6N Round 3: Scotland v Italy, 28 February - Page 4 Murino11

6N Round 3: Scotland v Italy, 28 February - Page 4 Murino11

15 Luke McLean
14 Michele Visentin
13 Luca Morisi
12 Enrico Bacchin
11 Giovambattista Venditti
10 Kelly Haimona
09 Edoardo Gori

01 Matias Aguero
02 Leonardo Ghiraldini
03 Dario Chistolini
04 George Fabio Biagi
05 Joshua Furno
06 Francesco Minto
07 Simone Favaro
08 Sergio Parisse (capt)

16 Andrea Manici
17 Alberto De Marchi
18 Lorenzo Cittadini
19 Marco Fuser
20 Samuela Vunisa
21 Guglielmo Palazzani
22 Tommaso Allan
23 Giulio Bisegni.

B. Form (last 4 games):

1. SCOTLAND

15/02/15 - Scotland 23 - 26 Wales

07/02/15 - France 15 - 8 Scotland

22/11/14 - Scotland 37 - 12 Tonga

15/11/14 - Scotland 16 - 24 New Zealand

2. ITALY

14/02/15 - England 47 - 17 Italy

07/02/15 - Italy 3 - 26 Ireland

22/11/14 - Italy 6–22 South Africa

14/11/14 - Italy 18–20 Argentina

C. Head to Head:

21 Played 21

14 Wins 7

7 Losses 14

0 Draws 0

40 Tries 28

30 Conversions 23

58 Penalties 50

5 Drop Goals 6

475 Points 365

by Captain_Sensible Wed 18 Feb 2015, 4:05 pm

Russell banned for two weeks - http://www.rbs6nations.com/en/news/27706.php

Terrible decision.

by EST Wed 18 Feb 2015, 4:14 pm

This was always the likely outcome, unfortunately.

How this merited a red, but Jenkins no arms clear out on Hogg didn't amazes me.

Similarly, there is no such action for Davies collision with Beattie. The supposition that the player in the air has somehow complete right of way is wrong. Russell is only guilty of not jumping, as far as I can see.

by **George Carlin** Wed 18 Feb 2015, 4:16 pm

Genuinely appalling that none of the Welsh antics were cited.

Thank god it's Italy next and that we're in the recess period.

Horne or Tonks at 10? What do we think the Mighty Vern will do?

by cakeordeath Wed 18 Feb 2015, 4:23 pm

I hope we got a chance to lube up before we were bent over and got f u c k e d

by Nematode Wed 18 Feb 2015, 4:32 pm

Absolutely appalling - never a red.

If he had jumped - late - the results could have been worse for BOTH of them. Russell's head would have contacted Biggar's knee and Biggar would probably have come down at a more serious angle. It was simply an unfortunate event that was an accident. Unlike Jenkins on Hogg, Davies on beattie, Faletau high tackle on Visser...

Starting to think the Welsh might have replaced the boks in terms of dirty play...

At least Glen Jackson didn't see it as a red card.

by townsendistarantino Wed 18 Feb 2015, 4:34 pm

That's a shocking decision for Russell, bad enough for me to dig out my log in and write this, not that it'll do any good...

on another note, I thought a welsh player tapped the ball out after Dunbar's pass as I think Scotland got the lineout, though I might have constructed that in my head to get over the rage that had built up from having to listen to Davies...again... and Martyn Williams, which is a shame always liked him as a player.

by the_oncoming_storm Wed 18 Feb 2015, 4:37 pm

Is that all the bad calls out the way now? I really hope so...

Can Scotland appeal the decision? Or is there a risk of it being extended?

by Nematode Wed 18 Feb 2015, 4:41 pm

The temptation to create a parody Glen Jackson account on here...

Run

by alive555 Wed 18 Feb 2015, 4:46 pm

its done now so who will play 10 ? weir ?

by Nematode Wed 18 Feb 2015, 4:48 pm

Glen Jackson says no to the deluge of rants against him.
6N Round 3: Scotland v Italy, 28 February - Page 4 Jackson_glen_card_2

Seriously, could we maybe have a dedicated rant time against him/that match, like weekdays 1600-1800, so we don't need to get our blood pressure up too high? idea

by reallybored Wed 18 Feb 2015, 4:48 pm

When was the Jenkins Hogg incident roughly, missed it.

by Nematode Wed 18 Feb 2015, 4:49 pm

alive555 wrote:its done now so who will play 10 ? weir ?

6N Round 3: Scotland v Italy, 28 February - Page 4 Comfy-Grip-Elbow-Crutches

by MacKnocked-on Wed 18 Feb 2015, 4:50 pm

Much as I would like us (Cotter) to remain above it all, Gatland had to put his oar in saying Russell should have got a red which may have influenced today's decision. Are the SRU seen as a soft touch perhaps, should Cotter have been more outspoken about incidents involving the Welsh players (Jenkins)?
It's also not much consolation saying at least Russell only misses the 'easier' Italy game, without our best players this won't be a gimme by any means.

by Tattie Scones RRN Wed 18 Feb 2015, 4:52 pm

Only one word to describe this and it starts with bolloc and ends with ks.

by **George Carlin** Wed 18 Feb 2015, 4:56 pm

To answer the above question - yes, the SRU can appeal.
Very interested to see if they will.

by Tattie Scones RRN Wed 18 Feb 2015, 4:57 pm

If Seymour, Maitland and Visser ( Whistle

) are all fit, I'd be tempted to perhaps put Hogg at 10 with Tonks on the bench. I'm pretty sure I saw a move on Sunday with Hogg taking the ball in the 10 channel or was that just me?

If Visser isn't deemed good enough, then Lamont in.

It would ensure we have as much firepower in the backs as possible.

by **Notch** Wed 18 Feb 2015, 4:57 pm

alive555 wrote:its done now so who will play 10 ? weir ?

Peter Horne, Greig Laidlaw or Greig Tonks. I'd probably go with Tonks.

by Tattie Scones RRN Wed 18 Feb 2015, 4:58 pm

George Carlin wrote:To answer the above question - yes, the SRU can appeal.
Very interested to see if they will.

It'd be better to send Big Man in from Chewin the Fat.

by VinceWLB Wed 18 Feb 2015, 4:58 pm

I had no problem with Jenkins' challenge personally but Russell getting banned for 2 weeks is a sickening joke.

by Nematode Wed 18 Feb 2015, 4:59 pm

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:If Seymour, Maitland and Visser ( ) are all fit, I'd be tempted to perhaps put Hogg at 10 with Tonks on the bench. I'm pretty sure I saw a move on Sunday with Hogg taking the ball in the 10 channel or was that just me?

If Visser isn't deemed good enough, then Lamont in.

It would ensure we have as much firepower in the backs as possible.

6N Round 3: Scotland v Italy, 28 February - Page 4 _80863119_fifetry

by GLove39 Wed 18 Feb 2015, 5:02 pm

Notch wrote:
alive555 wrote:its done now so who will play 10 ? weir ?

Peter Horne, Greig Laidlaw or Greig Tonks. I'd probably go with Tonks.

What about that young up and coming lad, Tommy Allan. Anyone know what he's up to these days..?

by Tattie Scones RRN Wed 18 Feb 2015, 5:02 pm

Nematode wrote:
Tattie Scones RRN wrote:If Seymour, Maitland and Visser ( ) are all fit, I'd be tempted to perhaps put Hogg at 10 with Tonks on the bench. I'm pretty sure I saw a move on Sunday with Hogg taking the ball in the 10 channel or was that just me?

If Visser isn't deemed good enough, then Lamont in.

It would ensure we have as much firepower in the backs as possible.

Ah crap yeah sorry. Defo Fife in for one of them.

by R!skysports Wed 18 Feb 2015, 5:04 pm

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:If Seymour, Maitland and Visser ( ) are all fit, I'd be tempted to perhaps put Hogg at 10 with Tonks on the bench. I'm pretty sure I saw a move on Sunday with Hogg taking the ball in the 10 channel or was that just me?

If Visser isn't deemed good enough, then Lamont in.

It would ensure we have as much firepower in the backs as possible.

Well that is one of the easiest questions answered...

by Tattie Scones RRN Wed 18 Feb 2015, 5:04 pm

GLove39 wrote:
Notch wrote:
alive555 wrote:its done now so who will play 10 ? weir ?

Peter Horne, Greig Laidlaw or Greig Tonks. I'd probably go with Tonks.

What about that young up and coming lad, Tommy Allan. Anyone know what he's up to these days..?

Well he's now out of favour in Italy so is moving to Spain and renaming himself Tomato Allan.

by GLove39 Wed 18 Feb 2015, 5:06 pm

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:
GLove39 wrote:
Notch wrote:
alive555 wrote:its done now so who will play 10 ? weir ?

Peter Horne, Greig Laidlaw or Greig Tonks. I'd probably go with Tonks.

What about that young up and coming lad, Tommy Allan. Anyone know what he's up to these days..?

Well he's now out of favour in Italy so is moving to Spain and renaming himself Tomato Allan.

by MacKnocked-on Wed 18 Feb 2015, 5:06 pm

Officially 'merited a red card' apparently

by Nematode Wed 18 Feb 2015, 5:07 pm

MacKnocked-on wrote:Officially 'merited a red card' apparently

What, Tattie Scones RRN's joke? Personally I thought it was quite good.

by Captain_Sensible Wed 18 Feb 2015, 5:10 pm

The SRU are appealing, according to their Twitter feed.

by cakeordeath Wed 18 Feb 2015, 5:11 pm

SRU have announced they be appeal the decision

by cakeordeath Wed 18 Feb 2015, 5:11 pm

Don't know why my autocorrect made me sound like pirate

by highland_scot Wed 18 Feb 2015, 5:16 pm

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:I'm pretty sure I saw a move on Sunday with Hogg taking the ball in the 10 channel or was that just me?

Nah, I noticed that too. He has been coming in at first receiver quite a lot lately. Likewise with Scott back when he was fit.

Hogg also played the 10 whilst Russell was sitting on the naughty step although he dropped back in defence to cover the back field still. Not that we ever really had the ball in that time...

by **BigGee** Wed 18 Feb 2015, 5:27 pm

Hogg won't play at FH, that experiment tried on the Lions tour and did not work. He is playing as well as any FB in the tournament atm, let him stay there and do what he does well. We need to blood another FH anyway, so it might as well be against Italy. Tonks was on the bench, so my money on him. That may increase the odds that S H-C starts as well!

Laidlaw could bench and cover both slots!

by funnyExiledScot Wed 18 Feb 2015, 5:51 pm

George Carlin wrote:Genuinely appalling that none of the Welsh antics were cited.

Thank god it's Italy next and that we're in the recess period.

Horne or Tonks at 10? What do we think the Mighty Vern will do?

Tonks - he was on the bench against Wales and should get his chance. Possibly rules out SH-C getting a shot at 9 though, even though it unites the 1872 champion half back pairing. I suspect he'll want Laidlaw's experience to counter Tonks' inexperience. My concern with that is when Laidlaw doesn't trust his 10 (a la Jackson under Scott Johnson), his service becomes even more glacial and he kicks everything away in an attempt to manage the game.

by funnyExiledScot Wed 18 Feb 2015, 5:53 pm

BigGee wrote:Hogg won't play at FH, that experiment tried on the Lions tour and did not work. He is playing as well as any FB in the tournament atm, let him stay there and do what he does well. We need to blood another FH anyway, so it might as well be against Italy. Tonks was on the bench, so my money on him. That may increase the odds that S H-C starts as well!

Laidlaw could bench and cover both slots!

Suggestions to move Hogg to 10 are beyond stupid. He's been out best player so far at 15.

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed 18 Feb 2015, 6:10 pm

Edinburgh halfback pairing for me.

SHC and Tonks.

Russel has been mugged here, woeful decision.

by **RDW** Wed 18 Feb 2015, 7:08 pm

To be fair, Tonks and Laidlaw played a lot together last season!

I'd still go with H-C, but I think he'll stick with Laidlaw

by Nematode Wed 18 Feb 2015, 8:04 pm

I don't think Hogg playing against Italy at FH, with Maitland (if fit) at FB, is "beyond stupid" - I think it's just perhaps not the best option.

I think if I was picking Tonks at 10 I'd want SHC at 9. If Denton is fit he'll no doubt start at 8, so it would be handy to have an Edinburgh 2, (19), 8, 9, 10 axis. I'd also not be averse to playing Scott at 12 if Dunbar is not fully 100% fit.

by **George Carlin** Thu 19 Feb 2015, 6:37 am

cakeordeath wrote:Don't know why my autocorrect made me sound like pirate

by offload Thu 19 Feb 2015, 7:05 am

Unfortunately I only saw the second half of the Wales v Scotland game and just caught up with the whole match. Have to say as a Welsh fan I thought the Russell incident was a clear penalty, probable yellow - nothing worse. After all the fuss I was expecting a muder attempt. The ban is very harsh and i hope it doesn't impact the game against Italy.

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 19 Feb 2015, 7:57 am

SRU are appealing offload, although how successful their attempt will be I have no idea.

by **RDW** Thu 19 Feb 2015, 8:00 am

The way things are going just now it wouldn't be much of a surprise if the appeal committee decided to double his ban!

There has been a real social media backlash though, with lots of ex players (including Martyn Williams) saying it is a ridiculous decision made by people who have no appreciation of what it's actually like for the players out there

by **George Carlin** Thu 19 Feb 2015, 8:34 am

The only time I saw a ban extended following an appeal was in respect of a blatent piece of thuggery. I actually think that this is exactly the kind of decision that you should appeal from.

I imagine that the citing board are not completely immune to the public brickbats pulled out for this incident, particularly as he's such a young player with a completely clean record and no Welsh players were cited at all. They could reduce the ban to one week, save face (technically, the ban would still operate to prevent him for playing for Glasgow against the Ospreys, so it's not completely meaningless), and still tacitly acknowlege that Russell does not deserve to miss a 6N game because of this.

by Weegie Wizard Thu 19 Feb 2015, 9:34 am

George Carlin wrote: I imagine that the citing board are not completely immune to the public brickbats pulled out for this incident, particularly as he's such a young player with a completely clean record and no Welsh players were cited at all. They could reduce the ban to one week, save face (technically, the ban would still operate to prevent him for playing for Glasgow against the Ospreys, so it's not completely meaningless), and still tacitly acknowlege that Russell does not deserve to miss a 6N game because of this.

I agree with this as I think there is no chance they will remove the ban altogether as they would simply be accused of reacting to all the social media rage - not a habit we want them to get into.

As you say, if they reduce to 1 week they can ban him without really banning him. That would suit everyone (and by everyone, I mean me)

by Tattie Scones RRN Thu 19 Feb 2015, 10:03 am

Weegie Wizard wrote:
George Carlin wrote: I imagine that the citing board are not completely immune to the public brickbats pulled out for this incident, particularly as he's such a young player with a completely clean record and no Welsh players were cited at all. They could reduce the ban to one week, save face (technically, the ban would still operate to prevent him for playing for Glasgow against the Ospreys, so it's not completely meaningless), and still tacitly acknowlege that Russell does not deserve to miss a 6N game because of this.

I agree with this as I think there is no chance they will remove the ban altogether as they would simply be accused of reacting to all the social media rage - not a habit we want them to get into.

As you say, if they reduce to 1 week they can ban him without really banning him. That would suit everyone (and by everyone, I mean me)

To be fair though this is a completely different situation. This isn't Scots' over reacting and trying to protect their own player in a biased selfish way. This is most, if not all, true rugby people (of all nations) fighting against what is undoubtedly, a complete farcical miscarriage of justice and common sense.

by **RDW** Thu 19 Feb 2015, 10:04 am

Even jiffy has said he thinks it's a ridiculous decision!

by Tattie Scones RRN Thu 19 Feb 2015, 10:05 am

And to add.....

Interesting point that someone made on the 'Scottish Rugby Change' Facebook page last night, in that two out of the three people on the review committee were from nations that Scotland had yet to play. Now I'm not sure how true that is, but it wouldn't be completely out of order concluding that this may have been a small factor influencing the decision.

by jimbopip Thu 19 Feb 2015, 11:18 am

Tattie, what a cynical and twisted mind you have. But you're probably right.
Are you heading down to Twickers? guinness

by Nematode Thu 19 Feb 2015, 11:20 am

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:And to add.....

Interesting point that someone made on the 'Scottish Rugby Change' Facebook page last night, in that two out of the three people on the review committee were from nations that Scotland had yet to play. Now I'm not sure how true that is, but it wouldn't be completely out of order concluding that this may have been a small factor influencing the decision.

Absolute non-starter.

Put yourselves in an official's shoes. Are you really going to risk your reputation - and career prospects - by giving a biased punishment just so that one player (that can make quite a few serious mistakes) from a position 5/6 team in the 6N doesn't play? Doh

Come on!

Also Russell's ban only covers the Italy match so your point doesn't really hold up. The officials were from France, England and Ireland. The English and Irish officials, if your claim is true..., would surely have WANTED Russell to play against Italy so that there was a chance he got injured and wouldn't face England or Ireland Whistle

It was the wrong call, yes, but can we just accept it instead of making up utter garbage.

by jimbopip Thu 19 Feb 2015, 11:23 am

Nematode, you're making sense and being reasonable. Stop it. You'll scare Schiz away again.

by Tattie Scones RRN Thu 19 Feb 2015, 11:47 am

jimbopip wrote:Tattie, what a cynical and twisted mind you have. But you're probably right.
Are you heading down to Twickers?

No mate - been to Twickenham once and that was still one too many times for me. Up in Scotland for the Ireland match though so if you're heading up, a few nippy's would be good!

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