England v Samoa - Who should play?

First topic message reminder :

You are limited to the 28 man squad that Lancaster retained - what would be your team?

England Squad

Loose-head prop
Joe Marler (Harlequins)
Matt Mullan (Wasps)

Tight-head prop
Kieran Brookes (Newcastle Falcons)
David Wilson (Bath Rugby)

Hooker
Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints)
Rob Webber (Bath Rugby)

Lock
Dave Attwood (Bath Rugby)
George Kruis (Saracens)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints)

Back row
Calum Clark (Northampton Saints)
James Haskell (Wasps)
Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby)
Chris Robshaw (Harlequins)(c)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens)
Tom Wood (Northampton Saints)

Scrum half
Danny Care (Harlequins)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)
Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens)

Outside back
Brad Barritt (Saracens)
Luther Burrell (Northampton Saints)
Kyle Eastmond (Bath Rugby)
Owen Farrell (Saracens)
George Ford (Bath Rugby)
Billy Twelvetrees (Gloucester Rugby)

Back three
Mike Brown (Harlequins)
Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby)
Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby)
Marland Yarde (Harlequins)

nobbled wrote:

The Saint wrote:Switched on to this channel to hear bad music and see over-celebrating from the England players, sums up Twickenham for me.

Then go and watch strictly come dancing.

You must have a hidden camera in my living room. Really wish Gavin Henson was still on there.

MIKE BROWN FFS

Awful conditions, awful decision to give England a try, awful everything.

Oh well, next week is the far more important game.

The Saint wrote:

nobbled wrote:

The Saint wrote:Switched on to this channel to hear bad music and see over-celebrating from the England players, sums up Twickenham for me.

Then go and watch strictly come dancing.

You must have a hidden camera in my living room. Really wish Gavin Henson was still on there.

Sums up The Saint for me.

Duty281 wrote:Awful conditions, awful decision to give England a try, awful everything.

Oh well, next week is the far more important game.

No, mate.  England need to win now and win assuredly.  Only then can we/they contemplate next week.

doctor_grey wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Awful conditions, awful decision to give England a try, awful everything.

Oh well, next week is the far more important game.

No, mate.  England need to win now and win assuredly.  Only then can we/they contemplate next week.

Oh I think England shall win today, Samoa's repeated indiscipline practically guarantees that, but it will not be pretty.

Can they give up with the George ford george ford george ford GEORGE Frak FORD!!!!!!!!!!!! every touch is the best ever, can they get his man sausage out there mouths long enough to talk about the other 13 players? Apart from Owen Farrell obviously as he's Poopie and should never look at a rugby ball again

Knackeredknees wrote:Can they give up with the George ford george ford george ford GEORGE Frak FORD!!!!!!!!!!!! every touch is the best ever, can they get his man sausage out there mouths long enough to talk about the other 13 players? Apart from Owen Farrell obviously as he's Poopie and should never look at a rugby ball again

Not if he creates tries like that.

Didn't think he would get up from that

Not sure about that yellow. Penalty - probably- yellow not for me.

Duty281 wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Awful conditions, awful decision to give England a try, awful everything.

Oh well, next week is the far more important game.

No, mate.  England need to win now and win assuredly.  Only then can we/they contemplate next week.

Oh I think England shall win today, Samoa's repeated indiscipline practically guarantees that, but it will not be pretty.

It's not the win, which i agree is inevitable.  It's how they do it.  And 13-6 at halftime of this match won't scare anyone.
And I agree, borderline yellow. I wouldn't have given it.

Soft yellow. Haskell's power compared to Wood - chalk and cheese. One of the few guys knocking them back in the tackle

nobbled wrote:

The Saint wrote:

nobbled wrote:

The Saint wrote:Switched on to this channel to hear bad music and see over-celebrating from the England players, sums up Twickenham for me.

Then go and watch strictly come dancing.

You must have a hidden camera in my living room. Really wish Gavin Henson was still on there.

Sums up The Saint for me.

Thankfully I remembered there was another game on, France Vs Argentina #realrugby

Are you guys playing Australia next weekend?

The Saint wrote:

nobbled wrote:

The Saint wrote:

nobbled wrote:

The Saint wrote:Switched on to this channel to hear bad music and see over-celebrating from the England players, sums up Twickenham for me.

Then go and watch strictly come dancing.

You must have a hidden camera in my living room. Really wish Gavin Henson was still on there.

Sums up The Saint for me.

Thankfully I remembered there was another game on, France Vs Argentina #realrugby

Are you guys playing Australia next weekend?

On today's evidence - losing to Australia next week.
Can only hope we play better and they play worse.

Pretty much a dirge again from England. Seem to be finding some form and then change all the players again. Shambles really.

trebellbobaggins wrote:Pretty much a dirge again from England.  Seem to be finding some form and then change all the players again.  Shambles really.

Say what?

Well it was going better in this match before all the changes.

I accept they are a pile of crap and out first round at the World Cup.

Sorry but what is the ref doing? He's looking for things to ping England for!

Meh! Not great but about what I expected. Ford looked promising I thought and Watson did well for me. Australia match very interesting now - I really hope England can step it up. Nice touch at end with sign of solidarity with Samoa BTW.

Be fair to the Samoans the are a dam hard team to break down.

Must do better really. Too sloppy again but without the total set piece control. No one bar Ford played their way in.

And another thing: Those red jerseys make the players look like a bunch christmas tree lights (who play stodgy Rugby).

Haskell did ok when he came on I thought...

nobbled wrote:

Knackeredknees wrote:Can they give up with the George ford george ford george ford GEORGE Frak FORD!!!!!!!!!!!! every touch is the best ever, can they get his man sausage out there mouths long enough to talk about the other 13 players? Apart from Owen Farrell obviously as he's Poopie and should never look at a rugby ball again

Not if he creates tries like that.

Yep no fly half has ever thought of doing a cross field kick before!

Meh! Not great but about what I expected. Ford looked promising I thought and Watson did well for me. Australia match very interesting now - I really hope England can step it up. Nice touch at end with sign of solidarity with Samoa BTW.

(Not sure why this posted again )

Knackeredknees wrote:

nobbled wrote:

Knackeredknees wrote:Can they give up with the George ford george ford george ford GEORGE Frak FORD!!!!!!!!!!!! every touch is the best ever, can they get his man sausage out there mouths long enough to talk about the other 13 players? Apart from Owen Farrell obviously as he's Poopie and should never look at a rugby ball again

Not if he creates tries like that.

Yep no fly half has ever thought of doing a cross field kick before!

Thinking and doing aren't the same thing

Knackeredknees wrote:

nobbled wrote:

Knackeredknees wrote:Can they give up with the George ford george ford george ford GEORGE Frak FORD!!!!!!!!!!!! every touch is the best ever, can they get his man sausage out there mouths long enough to talk about the other 13 players? Apart from Owen Farrell obviously as he's Poopie and should never look at a rugby ball again

Not if he creates tries like that.

Yep no fly half has ever thought of doing a cross field kick before!

It is nice to see something vaguely "clever" come off though knackered!

Horrendously scrappy, you can only blame the weather for so much of it.

Credit to Samoa, they got in England's faces but England could have coped a lot better.

I know that the superlatives regarding Ford were a bit much but he looked like a natural out there. I am noting this down as the first time I saw him start for England, reckon I will look back in ten years at the start of something special, a little like Jonny,

Good game from Ford, otherwise different line up but sane mistakes. Just reinforces to me it's the coaches not the individual players ago are the weak link.

My favourite part of the game coincidentally was the solidarity shown by the England players with the Samoan counter parts after the final whistle. That was a really nice gesture.

I really hope Ewers is in the EPS for the 6N instead of Clark, we desperately need that different sort of flanker in the squad.  Haskell was largely anonymous today, not a single carry and only 9 tackles compared to Robshaw's 22, Wood managed 9 in only the remaining 10mins of the match which he replaced him for.

Cumbrian wrote:My favourite part of the game coincidentally was the solidarity shown by the England players with the Samoan counter parts after the final whistle.  That was a really nice gesture.

Agreed.

Well that and Mays first try

Interesting that in the post-match interview Ford said that the call for the cross-field kick to Watson came from Farrell & Barritt. Ford & Farrell linked well for the first try, but I'd still prefer to see Ford, Barritt and a more attacking centre outside against Australia.

I know May got the brace, but Watson was the more impressive wing for me today, he went looking for a lot of work, made some nice breaks and linked well with others, as well as making a bucket of tackles

Hiding to nothing for this match anyway, especially with the weather.

Generally we play well vs Oz. Here's hoping.....

johnpartle wrote:I really hope Ewers is in the EPS for the 6N instead of Clark, we desperately need that different sort of flanker in the squad.  Haskell was largely anonymous today, not a single carry and only 9 tackles compared to Robshaw's 22, Wood managed 9 in only the remaining 10mins of the match which he replaced him for.

If Hask wants to make the 6 shirt his own he'll have to offer a fair bit more against Australia than he did today.  Samoa are no mugs but that's exactly the sort of match that he can and should have impressed himself upon play a lot more with greater physicality and more influence at the breakdown. Disappointing. 

Definitely agree about Ewers, we need carrying options aside from 8.

lostinwales wrote:Hiding to nothing for this match anyway, especially with the weather.

Generally we play well vs Oz. Here's hoping.....

Strangely I feel like things are OK. We're not particularly clever and we certainly aren't going to be scaring too many others after this Autumn's display. However we're not that far off and I do think we might discover a bit of x-factor from somewhere and then who knows? As I said, Australia will be interesting but I am unusually optimistic tonight which is odd compared to how I felt after SA.

Totally agree on the solidarity with the Samoans, that was really nice.

stub wrote:

lostinwales wrote:Hiding to nothing for this match anyway, especially with the weather.

Generally we play well vs Oz. Here's hoping.....

Strangely I feel like things are OK. We're not particularly clever and we certainly aren't going to be scaring too many others after this Autumn's display. However we're not that far off and I do think we might discover a bit of x-factor from somewhere and then who knows? As I said, Australia will be interesting but I am unusually optimistic tonight which is odd compared to how I felt after SA.

Its expectations. We have gone from being really surprised that we have played OK and been competitive to expecting to beat NZ. We got stuffed (but not by much) and its all doom and gloom.

Its interesting the contrast with Scotland- who were in a bad place. They couldnt possibly play as badly as they did in the last 6N- have actually played well a couple of times and suddenly everything is looking up. We are still going to run all over them in the 6N

Cumbrian wrote:My favourite part of the game coincidentally was the solidarity shown by the England players with the Samoan counter parts after the final whistle.  That was a really nice gesture.

Excellant comment Cumbrian, this has been broadcast this afternoon on New Zealand television, and the comments by Chris Robshaw on the matter were pure class.

Saw this on replay today and I must say I was quite impressed with Ford.
Sure , let's see him against better opposition before getting carried away ( next week might be interesting ) ; but England just might have found one there...

Cumbrian wrote:My favourite part of the game coincidentally was the solidarity shown by the England players with the Samoan counter parts after the final whistle.  That was a really nice gesture.

Completely agree, it was really great to see.

The game itself was awful mind you...

Knackeredknees normally I agree with you but Farrell has indeed been poopie for some time.

Shouldn't walk back into the Saracens line up either.

He's cost Saracens and England so many big matches in the last few months.

I have said time and again he needs a rest physically and mentally - he's a mess at the moment.

Farrell needs to actually listen to the so called sound bites of Saracens -honesty,humility,work rate, discipline. Doing just one of them would be a start. Okay maybe he's got work rate but the rest? Not a chance!

beshocked wrote:
Farrell needs to actually listen to the so called sound bites of Saracens -honesty,humility,work rate, discipline. Doing just one of them would be a start. Okay maybe he's got work rate but the rest? Not a chance!

I agree that he looks shot - but I think you are being over harsh here. I suspect that OF shows all four traits the vast majority of the time, but in games his discipline is letting him down at times. This is in large part due to the fact he looks liek a bloke who desperately needs a holiday.



As to the England display - not great, but nowhere near as bad as people want to make out. As fans we far to often veer from one extreme of expectation to the opposite of despair far too quickly.

beshocked wrote:Knackeredknees normally I agree with you but Farrell has indeed been poopie for some time.
Shouldn't walk back into the Saracens line up either.
He's cost Saracens and England so many big matches in the last few months.
I have said time and again he needs a rest physically and mentally - he's a mess at the moment.
Farrell needs to actually listen to the so called sound bites of Saracens -honesty,humility,work rate, discipline. Doing just one of them would be a start. Okay maybe he's got work rate but the rest? Not a chance!

I absolutely agree about Farrell not being right. He looks exactly the way a shot player looks. He needs rest and possibly some rehab. This is my opinion, based solely on what I see watching him play. Gives the impression he was rushed back for Sarries and then into the England squad. Best thing for him is to take some time off.

Anyone know what Barritt was up to at 67:27 on the match clock? Uncharacteristically hangs out of the defensive line, leaving a dog-leg and nearly costing us a try.

Not seen any of the game but heard it was a bit scrappy and not the best of performances is that fair?

Any players enhance/damage their reputations?

We should have scored more. A lot more. It was no better than the last game. And not as good as we were v NZ . so I don't really understand wholesale changes against a much lesser class team in Samoa.

We should have scored more but the again Attwood knocked on with the rugby equivalent of an open goal and Brown knocked on when gifted with an outside break and a simple two on one. Handling cost us at least two tries and possibly more. I find it incredible that professional rugby players run these lines without their hands up ready for the pass.

Sam,

It seems basic errors are of a premium these days its been said for sometime now that a lot of NH teams are breeding gym monkeys and skills seem low on the agenda.

England needed a win and got one. It was never going to be a great performance as confidence was becoming an issue. However, we did take some things out of the game. I think the back 3 is now settled for next week, as is 10, and we also know Wood will come back in. Also Morgan showed he's got far more stamina than Vunipola.

The big question is, what do we do in the centres? Farrell was actually not that bad at 12, but I don't think he'll start there next week, and having Barritt in the side is pointless as he'll never be a starter in the WC. I'd revert to Twelvetrees and Burrell I think.