The plot thickens -"cry baby"

by CAS Tue 18 Nov 2014, 12:14 am

First topic message reminder :

Found this interesting comment on a tennis blog I was reading, thought it would be worth sharing. Still has an element of speculation but have to say it doesn't look too good. Also at the end you can see Federer grimace at match point, rarely see him do something like that. Seems it was one of the most dramatic matches you are likely to ever see.

http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid2344262030001?bckey=AQ~~,AAAB3OVQoyE~,bQIJFW4YgkSAcqiAMKK4W3j6jM523fde&bctid=3894620532001

Listen carefully here but its pretty clear what is happening.
Here is a comment from some Swiss guy in some other post.
shnicshnac
I am swiss and I can tell you what happened, its in the papers here.
At 5 all and deuce in the 3rd set, between first and second serve.
Mirka is cheering very loud.
Stan interrupts Rogers Serving motion.
Mourier asks in French: “Whats up?”
Stan looks to Mirka and says: “Not just before the serve..”
With that he means, she should be quiet between the serves and not cheer so close before the serve.
Then she replies: “Cry, Baby, cry.”
And the Stan gets mad and answers to her: What?!?”
He adresses Mourier: “Did you hear what she say?”
Stan also says: “She did it already at Wimbledon..”

If you listen really carefully, you can just about make out "cry baby" very faintly

by Guest Thu 20 Nov 2014, 3:49 pm

hawkeye wrote:
legendkillarV2 wrote:A sense of humour is banned from this section

I don't see anyone breaking that ban

Exactly!

Don't get too carried away Wink

by **laverfan** Thu 20 Nov 2014, 3:56 pm

hawkeye wrote:laverfan. Sometimes it's worth following so called "gossip".

Are you suggesting a new Gossip thread and sticky one at that?

by hawkeye Thu 20 Nov 2014, 4:13 pm

laverfan. You just want all the interesting stuff shoved up there in the cold so everyone has no choice but to discuss Don Budge's side spin back hand lob Sad

by Henman Bill Thu 20 Nov 2014, 4:14 pm

Fognini is a whole chapter of the book.

Socal, where did Federer blast the umpire. Please provide a quote and source. All I've seen is that he expressed surprise that the umpire gave an interview, which is not normally expected, but no specific critisicm or the issue. Certainly no blasting.

by **laverfan** Thu 20 Nov 2014, 4:33 pm

Henman Bill wrote:Socal, where did Federer blast the umpire. Please provide a quote and source. All I've seen is that he expressed surprise that the umpire gave an interview, which is not normally expected, but no specific critisicm or the issue. Certainly no blasting.

To quote a certain JP McEnroe - You can not be serious!.

by **JuliusHMarx** Thu 20 Nov 2014, 4:46 pm

Henman Bill wrote:Fognini is a whole chapter of the book.

Socal, where did Federer blast the umpire. Please provide a quote and source. All I've seen is that he expressed surprise that the umpire gave an interview, which is not normally expected, but no specific critisicm or the issue. Certainly no blasting.

Oh, it was definitely a blast HB, a snarling hostile blast full of bitterness and bile.

by greengoblin Thu 20 Nov 2014, 5:06 pm

Mabye Mirka was just offended by Stan's family values. Remember he started a family; then decided it was holding back his tennis.

by Haddie-nuff Thu 20 Nov 2014, 5:14 pm

greengoblin wrote:Mabye Mirka was just offended by Stan's family values. Remember he started a family; then decided it was holding back his tennis.

Nothing to do with the topic and somewhat out of order imo Doh

by Jahu Thu 20 Nov 2014, 5:20 pm

Yeah green, I mean I am bad enough flirting here, but you are getting into chromosomes and ovaries Laugh

by Guest Thu 20 Nov 2014, 6:18 pm

Henman Bill wrote:Fognini is a whole chapter of the book.

Socal, where did Federer blast the umpire. Please provide a quote and source. All I've seen is that he expressed surprise that the umpire gave an interview, which is not normally expected, but no specific critisicm or the issue. Certainly no blasting.

HB, don't expect a reasonable response. Just be prepared for wild accusations, grotesque exaggerations and lots and lots of strawmen.

ghost

emancipator

by greengoblin Thu 20 Nov 2014, 9:33 pm

Haddie-nuff wrote:
greengoblin wrote:Mabye Mirka was just offended by Stan's family values. Remember he started a family; then decided it was holding back his tennis.

Nothing to do with the topic and somewhat out of order imo

If part of the topic is why Federer and wawrinka are not the 'buddys' they often claim to be, I would think it relevant.

by Haddie-nuff Thu 20 Nov 2014, 9:37 pm

Not at all it has no bearing on this particular incident.. What Stan does in his private life is his business and has no place in this discussion

Is there any other player you would like to have a dig at.?. I think you have covered most of them on 606

by greengoblin Thu 20 Nov 2014, 9:43 pm

Haddie-nuff wrote:Not at all it has no bearing on this particular incident.. What Stan does in his private life is his business and has no place in this discussion

Is there any other player you would like to have a dig at.?. I think you have covered most of them on 606

How much time have you got Laugh

by Haddie-nuff Thu 20 Nov 2014, 9:45 pm

greengoblin wrote:
Haddie-nuff wrote:Not at all it has no bearing on this particular incident.. What Stan does in his private life is his business and has no place in this discussion

Is there any other player you would like to have a dig at.?. I think you have covered most of them on 606

How much time have you got

It was a rhetorical question..I think Ive worked it out for myself Rolling Eyes

by summerblues Fri 21 Nov 2014, 1:42 am

Haddie-nuff wrote:What Stan does in his private life is his business and has no place in this discussion

But did not Stan himself advertise he was leaving his wife and family to focus on tennis? That brings it very much to public domain I think.

It was kind of ironic that after he did that his career went downhill and did not really pick up until they got back together.

by Haddie-nuff Fri 21 Nov 2014, 1:45 am

summerblues wrote:
Haddie-nuff wrote:What Stan does in his private life is his business and has no place in this discussion
But did not Stan himself advertise he was leaving his wife and family to focus on tennis? That brings it very much to public domain I think.

It was kind of ironic that after he did that his career went downhill and did not really pick up until they got back together.

Maybe so sb but tell me please what it has to do with this thread.. it has no bearing on the events at the WTF

by summerblues Fri 21 Nov 2014, 1:54 am

Haddie-nuff wrote:Maybe so sb but tell me please what it has to do with this thread.. it has no bearing on the events at the WTF

I was responding to your assertion that it was Stan's private life.

This thread is a gossip thread, issues such as the relationship triangle between Mirka, Stan and Fed have been discussed at some length so I think adding Stan's marital issues was not entirely outside the spirit of where this thread had meandered already.

by Haddie-nuff Fri 21 Nov 2014, 1:57 am

I personally think he's taken enough stick already dont you? He is not the bad guy here

by summerblues Fri 21 Nov 2014, 2:00 am

Agree with that. He is the injured party here. More so than Fed, back issues notwithstanding.

But frankly, the whole episode is rather trivial. The only person it really sheds a bad light on is Mirka, and she is not even a tennis player.

by **laverfan** Fri 21 Nov 2014, 2:02 am

Haddie-nuff wrote:I personally think he's taken enough stick already dont you? He is not the bad guy here

Neither is Roger Federer. Mirka is Mrs. Federer. Do you agree?

by Haddie-nuff Fri 21 Nov 2014, 2:13 am

laverfan wrote:
Haddie-nuff wrote:I personally think he's taken enough stick already dont you? He is not the bad guy here

Neither is Roger Federer. Mirka is Mrs. Federer. Do you agree?

Did I say I didn't? I haven't blamed Roger for anything that Im aware of.. The point of this thread as I believed it to be is that Mirka Federer was the one that opened her rather large mouth, to the embarrassment I would suggest of her husband. I am supporting Stan in this because there is, in my mind, no foundation for calling him a crybaby he made his complaint as any other player, playing any other player, would have done. The whole thing has blown up because he was playing Fed and she, as opposed to any other players wife, would seem to believe she is beyond reproach.

by **laverfan** Fri 21 Nov 2014, 3:46 am

Haddie-nuff wrote:The point of this thread as I believed it to be is that Mirka Federer was the one that opened her rather large mouth, to the embarrassment I would suggest of her husband. I am supporting Stan in this because there is, in my mind, no foundation for calling him a crybaby he made his complaint as any other player, playing any other player, would have done. The whole thing has blown up because he was playing Fed and she, as opposed to any other players wife, would seem to believe she is beyond reproach.

If there was an unnamed fan shouting 'cry baby' at 5-5 deuce, Mourier would have called a Let. Mirka, being Roger's wife, is being held to a higher standard than some unnamed, anonymous fan, shouting the same words, because she is Roger's wife. This does not exonerate her in anyway. She knew she was sitting in a public venue with hundreds of possible ears and microphones trained on respective boxes.

Stan's fault lies in arguing publicly, rather than going to Mourier, whether this occurred once in the match, or ten times. Is he beyond reproach? Perhaps, he has the sympathy vote of posters on v2, which is fine. The other surprising thing is that he turned around and walked, Federer stopped, and then he started arguing with the box, despite Mourier telling Wawrinka 'No...'. If he was being heckled constantly, any changeover/sitdown at his chair, and a quiet word with Mourier would have alerted Mourier to intervene, as necessary.

There is a famous incident of another player arguing with a fan in Toronto recently. None of these players are saints, and never will be. They have public spotlight and microscopes trained on them.

I recall a Tendulkar interview, where he lamented that he could not walk on the streets of Bombay, without being mobbed, and he gave up the desire to do so, because he knew what he was sacrificing and what was the RoI.

The tragedy of this whole affair, to me, is the posse mentality on the forum and trenches. I will be six-feet under at some point and all this will be irrelevant. Just fascinated by Rosetta at the moment.

by **laverfan** Fri 21 Nov 2014, 4:16 am

Wawrinka bounced back from a spell of poor form to reach the semifinals in London and he insists he has now put behind him the bad memories of losing against Federer last Saturday after having four match points.

Read more at http://www.daviscup.com/en/news/191223.aspx#SorQksJXd5Hg8BjB.99

Any tea-leaves readers wanting to read between the lines are welcome!

by kingraf Fri 21 Nov 2014, 6:28 am

He did have a quiet word with the umpire though, his exact words were "if you don't sort it out, I will"... man of his word and all.

by Jahu Fri 21 Nov 2014, 6:46 am

No, shouting at friends wife, is not being a man, its a bit weak.

Especially when Stan has a better looking wife Laugh

by kingraf Fri 21 Nov 2014, 6:52 am

He didn't shout at her did he? Unless I've completely drawn a blank on the incident, Stan held up play and merely said "no, not before serve", then the umpire called him to calm down and he told the umpire this has gone on the whole day. I don't even know when the crybaby incident happened tbh. But I just assume it did

by Jahu Fri 21 Nov 2014, 6:58 am

We are all assuming here, some for fun, some cause we have lady traumas, some of lack of sex.

Important thing is no tennis is going on, and since Moët scandal, this is the best thing to happen this year drumroll

by Guest Fri 21 Nov 2014, 8:46 am

Lack of sex?

I have to admit I don't follow your logic, but it makes awesome reading at times! Laugh

by greengoblin Fri 21 Nov 2014, 9:14 am

summerblues wrote:
Haddie-nuff wrote:Maybe so sb but tell me please what it has to do with this thread.. it has no bearing on the events at the WTF
I was responding to your assertion that it was Stan's private life.

This thread is a gossip thread, issues such as the relationship triangle between Mirka, Stan and Fed have been discussed at some length so I think adding Stan's marital issues was not entirely outside the spirit of where this thread had meandered already.

Thanks. I thought the relevance was that people were surprised at Mirka behaving like this towards a friend. Maybe their friendship cooled after wawrinka left his wife. Remember Federer was disappointed in tiger woods

by Calder106 Fri 21 Nov 2014, 9:43 am

laverfan wrote:
Haddie-nuff wrote:The point of this thread as I believed it to be is that Mirka Federer was the one that opened her rather large mouth, to the embarrassment I would suggest of her husband. I am supporting Stan in this because there is, in my mind, no foundation for calling him a crybaby he made his complaint as any other player, playing any other player, would have done. The whole thing has blown up because he was playing Fed and she, as opposed to any other players wife, would seem to believe she is beyond reproach.

If there was an unnamed fan shouting 'cry baby' at 5-5 deuce, Mourier would have called a Let. Mirka, being Roger's wife, is being held to a higher standard than some unnamed, anonymous fan, shouting the same words, because she is Roger's wife. This does not exonerate her in anyway. She knew she was sitting in a public venue with hundreds of possible ears and microphones trained on respective boxes.

Stan's fault lies in arguing publicly, rather than going to Mourier, whether this occurred once in the match, or ten times. Is he beyond reproach? Perhaps, he has the sympathy vote of posters on v2, which is fine. The other surprising thing is that he turned around and walked, Federer stopped, and then he started arguing with the box, despite Mourier telling Wawrinka 'No...'. If he was being heckled constantly, any changeover/sitdown at his chair, and a quiet word with Mourier would have alerted Mourier to intervene, as necessary.

There is a famous incident of another player arguing with a fan in Toronto recently. None of these players are saints, and never will be. They have public spotlight and microscopes trained on them.
:
I recall a Tendulkar interview, where he lamented that he could not walk on the streets of Bombay, without being mobbed, and he gave up the desire to do so, because he knew what he was sacrificing and what was the RoI.

The tragedy of this whole affair, to me, is the posse mentality on the forum and trenches. I will be six-feet under at some point and all this will be irrelevant. Just fascinated by Rosetta at the moment.

Like H-N said this was Mrs Federer's fault and not her husbands. So I agree that blaming Federer is wrong. However I have to question this paragraph as I feel there are some inaccuracies in it. In the first instance Wawrinka did complain to the umpire at 4-4 in set 2 and as we are are now aware from the umpire (rightly or wrongly) he was referring to Mrs Federer. Now what does the umpire do ? Does he :

a) Give a general crowd warning not to shout out between or just before serves.
b) Give a warning saying Mrs Federer will you please not shout out between or just before serves.
c) Have a quiet word with Federer himself to explain the situation and get him to pass the message along somehow that his wife is annying his opponent.

Bit of a no win situation. Answers on postcard please. If A) would she have paid any attention ?

Then when he stops and turns around before Federer's serve. He says (doesn't shout) 'No Not before the serve Shhh ' at this point he gets the sarky reply which is quite a normal reflex reaction for someone who has just been called out for doing something wrong. It is only at this stage that Wawrinka moves towards the box pointing his racquet and questioning what was said and the umpire says 'No Stan No'. It all quietens down.

So I would therefore say that blaming Wawrinka for any of what happened is not fair on him. This was the semi final of one of the biggest tournaments of the tennis year. If someone/something is distracting a player there is no point in waiting until after the match to try and sort it out.

by Jahu Fri 21 Nov 2014, 9:49 am

legendkillarV2 wrote:Lack of sex?

I have to admit I don't follow your logic, but it makes awesome reading at times!

Same here, same here, I mean Forums and Logic, come on!! king

by coolpixel Fri 21 Nov 2014, 10:07 am

This term friend is used too often. I seriously doubt Federer or Wawrinka were ever friends, bosom buddies. Competitive players cannot have friendly relationships with each other. They might be amicable to one another but friends? There are a whole lot of dynamics that go in friendships.

I am just wondering if RF gave MF a stern talking to and then when alone, smiled. If MF did say hose words, then she showed more passion in that one second than all the trophy wives put together. Even's Murray's GF sits there as if her whole purpose is to be a decorative ornament.

by greengoblin Fri 21 Nov 2014, 10:45 am

coolpixel wrote:This term friend is used too often. I seriously doubt Federer or Wawrinka were ever friends, bosom buddies. Competitive players cannot have friendly relationships with each other. They might be amicable to one another but friends? There are a whole lot of dynamics that go in friendships.

I am just wondering if RF gave MF a stern talking to and then when alone, smiled. If MF did say hose words, then she showed more passion in that one second than all the trophy wives put together. Even's Murray's GF sits there as if her whole purpose is to be a decorative ornament.

I think that's a tad unfair on wives. What are they meant to do? The purpose of the audience is to watch and enjoy, not affect the outcome of the match.

by Jahu Fri 21 Nov 2014, 10:57 am

Ban the courtside Box, sit the players family/friends at the top of the stadium, no coaching, no wife stuff, Player cant even see them where they are.

All clear.

by **laverfan** Fri 21 Nov 2014, 4:01 pm

Calder106 wrote:

Like H-N said this was Mrs Federer's fault and not her husbands. So I agree that blaming Federer is wrong. However I have to question this paragraph as I feel there are some inaccuracies in it. In the first instance Wawrinka did complain to the umpire at 4-4 in set 2 and as we are are now aware from the umpire (rightly or wrongly) he was referring to Mrs Federer. Now what does the umpire do ? Does he :

a) Give a general crowd warning not to shout out between or just before serves.
b) Give a warning saying Mrs Federer will you please not shout out between or just before serves.
c) Have a quiet word with Federer himself to explain the situation and get him to pass the message along somehow that his wife is annying his opponent.

Bit of a no win situation. Answers on postcard please. If A) would she have paid any attention ?

Then when he stops and turns around before Federer's serve. He says (doesn't shout) 'No Not before the serve Shhh ' at this point he gets the sarky reply which is quite a normal reflex reaction for someone who has just been called out for doing something wrong. It is only at this stage that Wawrinka moves towards the box pointing his racquet and questioning what was said and the umpire says 'No Stan No'. It all quietens down.

So I would therefore say that blaming Wawrinka for any of what happened is not fair on him. This was the semi final of one of the biggest tournaments of the tennis year. If someone/something is distracting a player there is no point in waiting until after the match to try and sort it out.

I will remove my quoted response otherwise quoting gets hairy. I hope that is Ok Calder106.

A) is what I would have done in Mourier's place. And several times at that, making sure that eyes were trained on the Player's box being referred to. If the complaint at 4-4 was heard and acknowledged, a repeat complaint was warranted. Under no circumstances should the crowd (or fans) be engaged. DC crowds are notorious of being partisan. Read Laver's biography, if you like, Sometimes even lines persons collude.

B) is possibility, if Mourier calls an ATP official who walks over to the Player's box to have a private discussion. Case in point, a fight broke out a USO Djokovic match, and the participants in such a fight were ejected by stadium security. MF could have been ejected. US NBA and MLB will eject coaches and players out of the field. Tennis may need it as well.

C) is a no-go. It does not solve anything.

D) Put a microphone in each player's box and leave it on, with the control with the Chair Umpire, and proper privacy notice to the respective boxes, before the match, if necessary.

This situation does not require a win, but control. BTW, every match at WTF is important, not just this one.

If I were Wawrinka, I would have walked towards Mourier, not the box and spent an extra 30-60 seconds discussing with Mourier (with his microphone turned off), and made Federer wait, to air his grievances.

If I was Mourier, I would have asked the Tournament Referee to ask for assistance.

If I was MF were doing this to annoy Wawrinka, the hint from Mourier would have been enough.

by coolpixel Fri 21 Nov 2014, 4:51 pm

GG what is unfair on wives? Sitting as decorative pieces?

by coolpixel Fri 21 Nov 2014, 5:07 pm

I a, more interested in RF's behaviour in all this than MF or Stan's.
I am not sure how much RF caught whT was going on, but he must have noticed Stan gesticulating in Mf's direction. A lesser man would have seen red....

I wonder if he goes into a grey fog when playing and surfaces only now and then.

by greengoblin Fri 21 Nov 2014, 5:09 pm

coolpixel wrote:GG what is unfair on wives? Sitting as decorative pieces?

I meant that your description of them as ornaments was unfair

by kingraf Fri 21 Nov 2014, 5:14 pm

I think he knows Stan well enough to know
a) How realistic a threat Stan posed to his wife
b) That Stan would duff him up real quick.

by Jahu Fri 21 Nov 2014, 5:20 pm

Yes, Stan would deck Fed in one shot, and then in next shot fix Djokos ears too.

Though Berdy has a fair chance fighting Stan.

by greengoblin Fri 21 Nov 2014, 5:21 pm

The truth is that stan is a cry baby. Remember the match at wim. against lopez.

by Jahu Fri 21 Nov 2014, 6:00 pm

He is a bit, but since he kicked in the nuts Djoko and Nadal at AO this year, I will forgive his liquid emotions.

by Calder106 Fri 21 Nov 2014, 6:38 pm

laverfan wrote:

I will remove my quoted response otherwise quoting gets hairy. I hope that is Ok Calder106.

A) is what I would have done in Mourier's place. And several times at that, making sure that eyes were trained on the Player's box being referred to. If the complaint at 4-4 was heard and acknowledged, a repeat complaint was warranted. Under no circumstances should the crowd (or fans) be engaged. DC crowds are notorious of being partisan. Read Laver's biography, if you like, Sometimes even lines persons collude.

B) is possibility, if Mourier calls an ATP official who walks over to the Player's box to have a private discussion. Case in point, a fight broke out a USO Djokovic match, and the participants in such a fight were ejected by stadium security. MF could have been ejected. US NBA and MLB will eject coaches and players out of the field. Tennis may need it as well.

C) is a no-go. It does not solve anything.

D) Put a microphone in each player's box and leave it on, with the control with the Chair Umpire, and proper privacy notice to the respective boxes, before the match, if necessary.

This situation does not require a win, but control. BTW, every match at WTF is important, not just this one.

If I were Wawrinka, I would have walked towards Mourier, not the box and spent an extra 30-60 seconds discussing with Mourier (with his microphone turned off), and made Federer wait, to air his grievances.
.
If I was Mourier, I would have asked the Tournament Referee to ask for assistance.

If I was MF were doing this to annoy Wawrinka, the hint from Mourier would have been enough.

LF. Your option D) was a no-go as well as I was talking about this particular match. If it wasn't there at the start I can't imagine they would do it half way through.

I understand and agree with the first couple of sentences in your reply to option A). However I get lost after that. There is video proof that the complaint was heard as Wawrinka was at the umpires chair changing his racquet and the umpire had a conversation with him. I've no idea what the Davis Cup , Laver's biography and lines persons colluding have anything to do with what took place in this instance.

Considering he had complained before my personal view is that what Wawrinka initially did was fine. He stopped the match and asked the person causing him the issue to stop what they were doing. If the sarky reply hadn't come back that would probably have been the end of it as a talking point. You obviously think he should have done something different. I don't think we will agree on this. So I don't intend to comment any more on this subject.

by **laverfan** Sat 22 Nov 2014, 1:54 pm

It Must Be Love wrote:News just in from Davis Cup:

Federer and Wawrinka will not be playing doubles together for the doubles tie.

The plot thickens -"cry baby" - Page 5 LbEwOvZ

by temporary21 Sat 22 Nov 2014, 1:55 pm

laverfan wrote:
It Must Be Love wrote:News just in from Davis Cup:

Federer and Wawrinka will not be playing doubles together for the doubles tie.

Soo France lied about the line up change too?

by It Must Be Love Sat 22 Nov 2014, 2:24 pm

Bit misleading from you LF, the Swiss captain did originally say they wouldn't play, but changed his mind today (as he's entitled to do so).

by summerblues Sat 22 Nov 2014, 4:54 pm

Then surely you should not have said "Federer and Wawrinka will not be playing together" but instead "the Swiss captain is saying they will not be playing together" or something to that effect.

Of course, if Swiss captain said that his living room was painted orange, that I would believe him.

by kingraf Sat 22 Nov 2014, 4:59 pm

Surely six of one half a dozen of the other SB? Seems a rather minute detail to argue on. If Carlo Ancelotti says Ronaldo will not be playing, I tend to then write "Ronaldo will not be playing", not "Carlo Ancelotti said Ronaldo will not be playing*"...

*Subject to change at any given time without notice

by summerblues Sat 22 Nov 2014, 5:04 pm

Of course it is a minute detail, I am just poking gentle fun at amri (the orange room reference should make it clear if you had read his posts). Amri is a good sport, he will be alright with that.

by It Must Be Love Sat 22 Nov 2014, 5:23 pm

summerblues wrote:
Of course, if Swiss captain said that his living room was painted orange, that I would believe him.

After this massive U-turn over the doubles team, I don't think this guy can be trusted, frankly if he said that now I'd know that his living room could be every other colour rather than orange.

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