The Final World Tour Finals Final Thread

[JuliusHMarx]

First topic message reminder :

The other thread will automatically split soon anyway, so here's a new one for the final.

[Haddie-nuff]

Wow a lot of anti Federer venom. The guy pulls out for only the 2nd or 3rd time in his career and this is what he gets. One more reason why I have more or less given up on forums.

I think venom is a slight exaggeration.

I don't know how posters sleep at night with their idols being insulted or dis-respected. Makes me want to hug my pillow closely tonight.

Or anything that is soft and warm eh LK

[Jahu]

Is this who gets to 8 games first?

Djoko should give this to Andy as SB said, infront of Andys public, but DJoko is a cheap Peugeot car.

Andy would not beat Djoko in Belgrade or Monte Carlo

Djoko wins, what a disaster of a honor.

[socal1976]

Wow a lot of anti Federer venom. The guy pulls out for only the 2nd or 3rd time in his career and this is what he gets. One more reason why I have more or less given up on forums.

No such thing as anti-Federer venom cp. I'm reliably informed it doesn't exist.

I heard Federer lost his tampon and couldn't play under the circumstances.

[Guest]

Wow a lot of anti Federer venom. The guy pulls out for only the 2nd or 3rd time in his career and this is what he gets. One more reason why I have more or less given up on forums.

I think venom is a slight exaggeration.

I don't know how posters sleep at night with their idols being insulted or dis-respected. Makes me want to hug my pillow closely tonight.

Or anything that is soft and warm eh LK

Shhhhh

Seriously though. Why do people take things to heart.

[Jahu]

Wow a lot of anti Federer venom. The guy pulls out for only the 2nd or 3rd time in his career and this is what he gets. One more reason why I have more or less given up on forums.

No such thing as anti-Federer venom cp. I'm reliably informed it doesn't exist.

I heard Federer lost his tampon and couldn't play under the circumstances.

Keep looking for the string that was attached to his lost tampon, I know you got the applicator tube on you

[Guest]

Julius break out the Henman pants!

[JuliusHMarx]

C'mon Tim!

[Guest]

That was brilliant from Andy "Sorry I pushed him hard on Thursday"

Pow!

[It Must Be Love]

Murray 'I'd just like to say sorry... I clearly pushed him so hard on Thursday...' LOL

[slashermcguirk]

I think federer should have tried to play a few games, if he couldn't play then just retire. If he ends up playing Davis cup next week miraculously, questions will be asked

[Haddie-nuff]

I think federer should have tried to play a few games, if he couldn't play then just retire. If he ends up playing Davis cup next week miraculously, questions will be asked

I doubt it.. Im sure it will soon be forgotten

[Guest]

Super Tim!!!!

[Jahu]

slash, he said he could not be up to quality for Djoko or something like that, not that he cant move.

Thought agree, he should of got there for a set, chat with Djoko before the match, that he cant do it rough and tough and retire after set 1.

[Jahu]

Come on Tim, beat the americano-scotish duo

[JuliusHMarx]

I think federer should have tried to play a few games, if he couldn't play then just retire. If he ends up playing Davis cup next week miraculously, questions will be asked

I doubt it.. Im sure it will soon be forgotten

I doubt it. It's already in IMBL's spreadsheet so he can bring it up again in a few years along with "But I like Federer"

[socal1976]

I think federer should have tried to play a few games, if he couldn't play then just retire. If he ends up playing Davis cup next week miraculously, questions will be asked

Exactly, slasher, if he shows up and plays a couple of 5 setters at DC big questions will be asked. I would have preferred if he tried to make a go and then withdrew from the match if he could do it, at least it would have paid respect to the event, Djokovic, and the fans. To me this withdrawal smells fishy, and it will smell like Mcdonald's on Friday if he plays DC.

[Jahu]

The Master is Talking!!

[slashermcguirk]

Here here socal! Will be interesting to see if he plays Davis cup

[Jahu]

Fed is saying back spasm maybe.

[Silver]

First off, congrats to Novak and his fans for the WTF win; sucks that it happened this way, but the kudos are no less diminished in my mind, and it is so deserved. Glorious couple of weeks for the mighty #1

Depressingly poor reaction from the forum over this one though. I'm happy to criticise Federer when he's been an arse, but this isn't one of those times. At least he fronted up and explained himself.

Sounds like a very disappointing decision from Federer. Smells like a withdrawal because he knows he cannot win, not because he cannot play. I wonder if he would have withdrawn had it been someone easier in the final? I wonder if he would have withdrawn if there was no Davis Cup coming up?

But..it's hard to say for sure exactly how fit he is.

Doubtful. He got on court with Nadal last year at IW when his back was self-destructing, played to the end of the match and refused to blame injury afterwards even though Nadal asked him at the net how the back was. Not the actions of someone who's willing to cower behind false injury because he thinks he can't win. For that reason, I doubt he would've withdrawn if the DC wasn't coming up...which is both a positive and a negative.

He probably also doesn't want to let Stan down, as stupid as that'll sound to people who dislike Fed. The two of them are the Swiss team - if one goes, the other is stuffed.

[It Must Be Love]

Before we start criticising Federer prematurely, let's actually wait and see if he does play the Davis Cup or not...

[Haddie-nuff]

This WAS the WT Finals .. I really think the event and the crowd deserved more respect than that. Personally I feel very sorry for Stan.. he should feel well miffed I think

[Guest]

Federer is just victim of poor scheduling. Given how close the WTF and DC are. I am sure in hindsight he may have passed on the WTF.

Always a tough ask to recuperate for a BO5 in under a week's time.

[Jahu]

IMBL, if he does so what? Cant be cured for 3-4 days and feel better?

Don't flame the flamers.

[slashermcguirk]

Who won the djokovic vs Murray match in the end?

[It Must Be Love]

He probably also doesn't want to let Stan down, as stupid as that'll sound to people who dislike Fed. The two of them are the Swiss team - if one goes, the other is stuffed.

I think, jokes aside, it's a pretty wise move from Federer- why play when you have no chance anyway and perhaps risk making the back worse ?

[Jahu]

Should of brought Stan tonight not Andy, and let him beat Djoko

[Guest]

First off, congrats to Novak and his fans for the WTF win; sucks that it happened this way, but the kudos are no less diminished in my mind, and it is so deserved. Glorious couple of weeks for the mighty #1

Depressingly poor reaction from the forum over this one though. I'm happy to criticise Federer when he's been an arse, but this isn't one of those times. At least he fronted up and explained himself.

Sounds like a very disappointing decision from Federer. Smells like a withdrawal because he knows he cannot win, not because he cannot play. I wonder if he would have withdrawn had it been someone easier in the final? I wonder if he would have withdrawn if there was no Davis Cup coming up?

But..it's hard to say for sure exactly how fit he is.

Doubtful. He got on court with Nadal last year at IW when his back was self-destructing, played to the end of the match and refused to blame injury afterwards even though Nadal asked him at the net how the back was. Not the actions of someone who's willing to cower behind false injury because he thinks he can't win. For that reason, I doubt he would've withdrawn if the DC wasn't coming up...which is both a positive and a negative.

He probably also doesn't want to let Stan down, as stupid as that'll sound to people who dislike Fed. The two of them are the Swiss team - if one goes, the other is stuffed.

I am actually depressed with the forum.

Guys I think you need to either grow thicker skin or come into the warm embrace of my birds nest. It's seriously fuzzy

[JuliusHMarx]

This WAS the WT Finals .. I really think the event and the crowd deserved more respect than that. Personally I feel very sorry for Stan.. he should feel well miffed  I think

More respect that what? Perhaps Rafa should have played as well, or was he disrespecting the entire tournament

[Haddie-nuff]

He probably also doesn't want to let Stan down, as stupid as that'll sound to people who dislike Fed. The two of them are the Swiss team - if one goes, the other is stuffed.

I think, jokes aside, it's a pretty wise move from Federer- why play when you have no chance anyway and perhaps risk making the back worse ?

Because the bliddy crowd paid money to watch him thats why..we all questioned whether Nadal was wise to play with appendicitis but the man had made a commitment and he kept to it

[socal1976]

First off, congrats to Novak and his fans for the WTF win; sucks that it happened this way, but the kudos are no less diminished in my mind, and it is so deserved. Glorious couple of weeks for the mighty #1

Depressingly poor reaction from the forum over this one though. I'm happy to criticise Federer when he's been an arse, but this isn't one of those times. At least he fronted up and explained himself.

Sounds like a very disappointing decision from Federer. Smells like a withdrawal because he knows he cannot win, not because he cannot play. I wonder if he would have withdrawn had it been someone easier in the final? I wonder if he would have withdrawn if there was no Davis Cup coming up?

But..it's hard to say for sure exactly how fit he is.

Doubtful. He got on court with Nadal last year at IW when his back was self-destructing, played to the end of the match and refused to blame injury afterwards even though Nadal asked him at the net how the back was. Not the actions of someone who's willing to cower behind false injury because he thinks he can't win. For that reason, I doubt he would've withdrawn if the DC wasn't coming up...which is both a positive and a negative.

He probably also doesn't want to let Stan down, as stupid as that'll sound to people who dislike Fed. The two of them are the Swiss team - if one goes, the other is stuffed.

Sorry silver but he has no problem letting all of us fans down who bought tickets or wanted to watch this match. If he can't play DC, I stand corrected. If he does play DC he is a huge diick.

[Silver]

Will there be turkey, LK? I could be persuaded

Edit: The fans argument is a good one socal and there's no answering that. It is somewhat disrespectful to Novak as well, but it's a lose-lose situation for Federer. Either he plays and possibly makes the back worse, or he doesn't and takes away from fans and Djok. Novak did look a little peeved with the situation during his speech I thought, don't blame him.

[Guest]

I see Tim is reading from Murray school or serving

[Haddie-nuff]

This WAS the WT Finals .. I really think the event and the crowd deserved more respect than that. Personally I feel very sorry for Stan.. he should feel well miffed  I think

More respect that what? Perhaps Rafa should have played as well, or was he disrespecting the entire tournament

Oh really..............can I be bothered to respond to that............NO

[Guest]

Will there be turkey, LK? I could be persuaded

We can have turkey twice as I think Christmas is too far away

[Jahu]

Would of loved Edberg there not Andy in doubles.

[Guest]

Just seeing Mac and Cash makes me realise how devoid of personality the game is.

[Jahu]

Andys net play is superb.

[It Must Be Love]

Will there be turkey, LK? I could be persuaded

Edit: The fans argument is a good one socal and there's no answering that. It is somewhat disrespectful to Novak as well, but it's a lose-lose situation for Federer. Either he plays and possibly makes the back worse, or he doesn't and takes away from fans and Djok. Novak did look a little peeved with the situation during his speech I thought, don't blame him.

Players should put their own health above fans, simply pragmatic I'm afraid, better Federer is wise than try and please the crowd.

The issue is that both sides are speculating here. We don't really know the extent of the injury, (but I am almost certain he has an injury of some sort); it could be relatively minor and he just wanted to protect it knowing he probably was too tired and worn out to beat Djokovic anyway, or it could actually be more serious and he really couldn't play with Novak at all.
Or as Jahu pointed out, it may be serious but only temporary, so he could be fine for DC either way. We just don't know.

[JuliusHMarx]

He probably also doesn't want to let Stan down, as stupid as that'll sound to people who dislike Fed. The two of them are the Swiss team - if one goes, the other is stuffed.

I think, jokes aside, it's a pretty wise move from Federer- why play when you have no chance anyway and perhaps risk making the back worse ?

Because the bliddy crowd paid money to watch him thats why..we all questioned whether Nadal was wise to play with appendicitis but the man had made a commitment and he kept to it

And at that point, you were the one who said we're not doctors. You want a player to play and risk further damaging an injury? You do dislike Fed don't you - because you apply different rules to him than you do to Rafa

[Haddie-nuff]

He probably also doesn't want to let Stan down, as stupid as that'll sound to people who dislike Fed. The two of them are the Swiss team - if one goes, the other is stuffed.

I think, jokes aside, it's a pretty wise move from Federer- why play when you have no chance anyway and perhaps risk making the back worse ?

Because the bliddy crowd paid money to watch him thats why..we all questioned whether Nadal was wise to play with appendicitis but the man had made a commitment and he kept to it

And at that point, you were the one who said we're not doctors. You want a player to play and risk further damaging an injury? You do dislike Fed don't you - because you apply different rules to him than you do to Rafa [/quote

Forget the smiley JHM it doesn't cover  a cynical jaundiced comment.   Read into it what you will.. you will anyway...bye the way you are doing a good cover job for BB in his absence

[Guest]

Guys guys guys. Have some turkey with me and Silver and we can take in turns singing kumbahya

[bogbrush]

I guess with Federers record of withdrawals and retirements people are bound to be suspicious.

[Silver]

Guys guys guys. Have some turkey with me and Silver and we can take in turns singing kumbahya

I am noted for my beautiful singing voice. Even wolves howl along!

(Turkey x 2 - we could adopt Thanksgiving?)

[bogbrush]

This WAS the WT Finals .. I really think the event and the crowd deserved more respect than that. Personally I feel very sorry for Stan.. he should feel well miffed  I think

More respect that what? Perhaps Rafa should have played as well, or was he disrespecting the entire tournament

Oh really..............can I be bothered to respond to that............NO

Yeah, it would have been great for the crowd to watch him hobble out, hit a few balls, serve like a granny.

Where do they get these people?

[Guest]

Guys guys guys. Have some turkey with me and Silver and we can take in turns singing kumbahya

I am noted for my beautiful singing voice. Even wolves howl along!

(Turkey x 2 - we could adopt Thanksgiving?)

That was my thinking. Let's go yank!

[Jahu]

Andy crushing 3 legends.

[Guest]

Come back Mac!!

[TRuffin]

Ljubicic said last night before the Stan match that Fed was showing signs of the bad back at his prematch practice, other fans reported the same. It was all over twitter LAST night.  So Federer clearly was feeling something but felt like he could play- he did and tweaked it and woke up this morning feeling like he couldn't play.

Frankly you haters astound me.  Federer has been an absolute warrior for years and years. He has played more matches than all but a few players and has a near spotless record of not withdrawing and has never once retired from a match.  The guy is an absolute iron man.   You forget that he hurt his back at IW last year, still played Stan in a 3 set thriller in the next round where he couldn't even leave the ground on his serve, fought like hell to win the match knowing that Nadal was waiting for him in the next round.  He then showed up to play Nadal a shell of himself, took his beating, and was never fit the rest of the year.  You don't think that was on him and his teams mind? You don't think he has earned the right to do whats best for him?  

I have no doubt this is partly to give himself a chance to play DC for his country next week.  IF this was the last match of the season he would have played just like he did on a severely sprained ankle in the WTF final years ago that caused severe damage to it.  Knowing you aren't fit enough to win but hoping not playing will allow you to play for a title you can win is not the wrong thing to do.  It's the right thing.

You haters are so hypocritical it's baffling. Especially those that on another thread talk about how horrible Fed fans are in perpetrating the fan wars while you are pure.  You cry and cry about how mean people are to your favorite player, but when you get a chance to hit- you sure take it. You are like children "he hit me so it was okay for me to hit him"  Yet, adults tell the children that's not right.  Okay- so people pick on Nadal and Djoko- how about show more class than they do and give Federer some respect that anyone with a brain knows he's earned.

and just to clarify things Amri and others.  A withdraw counts as a loss in the ATP H2H. Federer gains nothing and does no preserve any H2H by not playing Djokovic.  Prerving H2H is what others do like continuonly missing chunks of the season where they would be taking confidence sapping losses to Djokovic....  oops, but there I am acting like you people.

[Haddie-nuff]

More respect that what? Perhaps Rafa should have played as well, or was he disrespecting the entire tournament Wink


   Oh really..............can I be bothered to respond to that............NO

Yeah, it would have been great for the crowd to watch him hobble out, hit a few balls, serve like a granny.

Where do they get these people?


I agree who expected Rafa to play at the WTF when he just had an appendectomy... ridiculous isnt it ???

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