AP Final Northampton Saints v Saracens

First topic message reminder :

Thought I'd start a thread for the final.

I hope it'll be a close game and as a neutral attending, a lot more interesting then the HC final.

Saracens: Goode; Ashton, Bosch, Barritt, Strettle; Farrell, De Kock; Barrington, Brits, Stevens; Borthwick (capt), Botha; Brown, Burger, B. Vunipola.

Replacements: George, Gill, Johnston, Haregreaves, Wray, Wigglesworth, Hodgson, Wyles.

Northampton Saints: Foden; K. Pisi, G. Pisi, Burrell, North; Myler, Fotuali'i; Corbisiero, Haywood, Ma'afu; Manoa, Lawes; Clark, Wood (capt), Dickinson.

Replacements: Hartley, Waller, Mercey, Day, Dowson, Dickson, Wilson, Stephenson.

Heart say's Saints to get their first ever AP title and the cup to get a new name on it, head say's Saracens will do enough to get a win after the let down on Saturday.

Agreed. Can't understand why Dickson isn't starting.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Nice team barring the fact you left out Wood.

 Was doing it a position v position thing.

 so
6) Clark v Brown
7) Wood v Burger

 and imo a top notch burger is more of a game changer than a top notch Wood imo.

I'd find room for Wood all day long; cracking player. Can't wait for this game should be great and I have absolutely no idea who's going to win.

Big mistake at 9 by Saints in my view

Will the Saracens LH hold up - not seen a lot of him

beshocked wrote:Weighing in on the injury issue

The following have been missing from the Saracens lineup throughout the season due to injury- Goode,Hodgson,Barritt,Taylor,Tomkins,Bosch,Burger,Vunipola x 2,Joubert,Kruis,Farrell (has had a problem with his foot for the last few weeks),Hargreaves,Gill,Botha,Fraser.

Every club has injury issues.

Of course they do, was just pointing out that Tigers amount of injuries this year was pretty bad.

Nathan don't worry we already know. We've been told enough times that Tigers get injuries. The same every year.

Oh and perhaps not signing injury prone players like Tait and Benjamin might help.

Not just Tigers though - look at Corbisiero for Saints.

geoff998rugby wrote:Big mistake at 9 by Saints in my view

Will the Saracens LH hold up - not seen a lot of him

Saints have been having to manage Lee Dickson for a while now, think he has an ongoing groin(?) problem and I'm guessing that is the reason they have gone with Photo-a-Leaky to start, perhaps feeling he couldn't last more than 40 at full tilt.Unlike some I don't mind Kahn but I do often feel that other Saints players can't always read what he is trying to do. Elsewhere in the team it's a shame Elliot is still out as I feel his defense is better than Ken Pisi's. Would have liked Day to start with Manoa at 8 but can understand Sam Dickinson starting, his form recently has been good and he's maybe a little better at the breakdown than big Sam (Saints have struggled against decent 7's). It's good to see Hartley involved and hope he is not risking the shoulder by coming back for a one off game.

From what I have seen of Barrington (Saracens LH) he will hold up fine, looks a decent prospect to me and has kept Gill out of the 23 for most of the season although I'm unsure if Gill was injured or not. As always a strong Saracens side. Kelly Brown was immense in the last meeting, hopefully Saints can keep him quieter this time out. Can understand why De Kock is starting, underrated player in my opinion and offers Saracens a bit more than Wigglesworth.

nathan wrote:

beshocked wrote:Weighing in on the injury issue

The following have been missing from the Saracens lineup throughout the season due to injury- Goode,Hodgson,Barritt,Taylor,Tomkins,Bosch,Burger,Vunipola x 2,Joubert,Kruis,Farrell (has had a problem with his foot for the last few weeks),Hargreaves,Gill,Botha,Fraser.

Every club has injury issues.

Of course they do, was just pointing out that Tigers amount of injuries this year was pretty bad.

Really?? That's funny because you guys never mentioned it during the season... I would have thought Cockerill would have at least mentioned it a few times pre game?

yappysnap wrote:

nathan wrote:

beshocked wrote:Weighing in on the injury issue

The following have been missing from the Saracens lineup throughout the season due to injury- Goode,Hodgson,Barritt,Taylor,Tomkins,Bosch,Burger,Vunipola x 2,Joubert,Kruis,Farrell (has had a problem with his foot for the last few weeks),Hargreaves,Gill,Botha,Fraser.

Every club has injury issues.

Of course they do, was just pointing out that Tigers amount of injuries this year was pretty bad.

Really?? That's funny because you guys never mentioned it during the season... I would have thought Cockerill would have at least mentioned it a few times pre game?

Is it really mentioned that much (more than other clubs) or is it yet again being used as a stick to hit the Tigers with?

People don't need to find sticks to beat Tigers with, Cockers hands them out to all and sundry after every defeat or close run thing.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:People don't need to find sticks to beat Tigers with, Cockers hands them out to all and sundry after every defeat or close run thing.

i swear fans whine about him more than he whines about the game

Conor O'Shea moans as much as Cockers, Mallinder more. They however are "nice" people.

Apparently todays game is a grudge match. Brits thinks Hartley is a dick who deserves nothing, while Mallinder views Saracens as ungracious when they win.

Oh and hope it is a good game, about to take my seat and cheer Saints on   

See you all in the Autumn.

Has anyone got a stream for this game?

Good luck both teams, haven't worked out who i'm cheering for yet. Suppose it would be good for Saints to win, at least it would put an end to the "it's our time" malarkey.

Glad JP Doyle got the gig, becoming a brilliant ref

Decided to watch this. Glad I did so far, very entertaining and I admire the work rate of both these teams so far. Good to watch.

Driver I sent a PM.

6-0 to Sarries after 20 mins. Two ruck-related penalties applying pressure.

Collisions are about even though & Northampton breaking tackles.

JP is a bit too by the book for my liking. He doesn't take into account whereabouts the offence Is committed etc he just tends to go straight for the harsh sanction. That's nit picking though, good ref.

Saints look good ball in hand but aren't doing well with the tactical kicking.

Pretty harsh offside call but Farrell misses. Still entertaining for a match not happening in either 22!

Hmm, looked like a Saints player went straight off their feet at that last ruck.

Excellent break, lineout work and team try there. Twice declined the penalty for the lineout Saints - very well played.

WOAH! set of incredible offloads by Northampton at the restart

Ok I'm talking to myself. Not many English posters on this board then?

I am watching this game and it seems the referee has decided he is just going to leave the scrums be, just about no prop scrumming straight from either side, players popping up, not one player is paying attention to the Crouch, bind set, they just take a bind when he says crouch.

Biltong wrote:I am watching this game and it seems the referee has decided he is just going to leave the scrums be, just about no prop scrumming straight from either side, players popping up, not one player is paying attention to the Crouch, bind set, they just take a bind when he says crouch.

I dont mind him letting a little go, but corbs i think should be pinged for not pushing straight.

Saints throwing the ball around nicely but lacking accuracy. Well worked try mind. Once Saints are in behind that rush defence Sarries look in a mess.

Hmmm, Lawes didn't look legal there?

edit: ah, i take that back. he was.

i don't think he was legal the first time either.

So a few thoughts.

Sarries are very boring and there music is pretty annoying.

There are a lot more Saints fans here and they drink a lot more

Sarries started better but Saints growing into it

No one should have to get up 3 times in one half!

All in all a fairly good final

Should of been called not straight at the lineout.

you cant jump into a tackle surely!!!!

Good for England with both Lawes and Goode playing well. Lawes showing some savvy play, looks very much an international at the minute. Goode is just everywhere at the minute, tackling needs a little more grunt to it though.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Good for England with both Lawes and Goode playing well. Lawes showing some savvy play, looks very much an international at the minute. Goode is just everywhere at the minute,  tackling needs a little more grunt to it though.

Yeah Lawes is having a great game, will be interesting to see what Dickson adds to the game now. Kahn has had a ok game.

I think Ashton is playing well too, he actually looks hungry for tackles.

Come on George, go easy on our england 10!

The Sarries back three have all been involved heavily in defence. Ashton definitely improved his tackling.

Thought I'm full speed Farrell was a little light on the arms for his tackle on North. Slow motion says I'm wrong, good call referee on that one. Big hit as well.

formerly known as Sam wrote:The Sarries back three have all been involved heavily in defence. Ashton definitely improved his tackling.

Thought I'm full speed Farrell was a little light on the arms for his tackle on North. Slow motion says I'm wrong, good call referee on that one. Big hit as well.

Didn't stop Mallinder and West having a moan though!

Upper hand to the Saints! This could be it.

What a great try. Lovely little dab through by Myler

I thought it was the hands that matter? not the direction of the ball, these pundits change their minds every bloody week.

Bloody hell that was forward

It is forward, but i'm not happy they came all the way back for that.

Does anyone know the actual bloody rule? Even if the score has been given the more important thing is to get the right decision

So, no try then?

Northampton's try goes to TMO when Pisi was about 400km onside. Saracens' try doesn't go to TMO despite the penultimate pass being 900miles forwards.

And then the TMO asks the ref to look at it after it's been awarded O_o

JP Doyle is a woeful ref, never liked him. Good on him for having the guts to go back to chalk that try off though.

Farrell really Is an idiot. Pulls his calf kicking the ball into the crowd in celebration.

Can you reverse the decision like that?

It was only the second to last pass though, think there's been far worse cases with going all the way back

On balance I think it's a good thing as justice has been done. If Sarries are good enough they'll score a legitimate time. HOWEVER it does create a big problem as to who the actual ref is and how much the TMO can infringe on the game...

Sam it happened to Ulster in the league last season after the final whistle was blown and then the ref got a call from the TMO to check something in the last play.