Nail your colours to the mast: Froch vs Groves 2 predicitons.

First topic message reminder :

Just over a week now to the big British rematch, how does everyone see this one going ? Your truthful offical prediction, you'll have no place to hide when you log on after the fight.

Whoever gets the correct outcome wins a grand, prizemoney to be donated by the Mods.

I see a tepid affair, much more strategic and cautious by both fighters, with Groves winning a comfortable decision something like 117-110. With a decider to happen in November.

Cheers Rodders

milkyboy wrote:I don't feel he was dominating all the early rounds as much as some make out. But he was clearly winning most of them. There wasn't much in round 2, the 5th was probably froch's.

Every single press row card had groves ahead. The average was by 5 points. Most people gave froch the 5th and the 8th.  And if you're implying the judges had it right, even froch doesn't agree with you!

His dominance was bookended by two big rounds, the first and the sixth which he ended up on the back foot in, the 5th, 7th and 8th were Froch's while the second as you say was lacking in action.

milkyboy wrote:I don't feel he was dominating all the early rounds as much as some make out. But he was clearly winning most of them. There wasn't much in round 2, the 5th was probably froch's.

Every single press row card had groves ahead. The average was by 5 points. Most people gave froch the 5th and the 8th.  And if you're implying the judges had it right, even froch doesn't agree with you!

I rewatched it the other night on Sky and that's how I had it, rounds 5 & 8 to Froch. Had Groves not gotten reckless at the end of the 6th it was potentially a 10-8 round to GG.

Just shows Froch's incredible durability that he was able to come on strong having taken such a hiding. That is the biggest worry for me as a Groves fan, that the guy is as immovable as sh*t on a blanket, that George threw the kitchen sink at him during a period that Froch was buzzed from the KD and still he kept coming. The guy is as hard as nails, for groves to win he has to be conservative, Froch is there to be outboxed - he's not there to be outfought.

For someone who's going to knock Froch out in 3 rounds, I can't understand why Groves and his camp are whinging about the ref,doesn't matter who the ref is if your that confident.Very strange indeed.

I think that's a good summary, Sugar.

He is there to be out boxed and not out fought

If Groves does a "De Gale" and boxes and stinks it out...i think he will probably get some Haye treatment for all his pre fight bravado.

Rodney wrote:

hazharrison wrote:I think Froch stops Groves again.

I watched the fight back last night. George began to unravel from round seven on. I expect him to box from range, however, Froch will walk him down steadily.

Groves had started to wilt in round nine. Had Foster let it go, I don't believe he'd have made it into the 10th.

Hard to say Haz, Froch looked absolutely shattered to me. If Groves somehow seen that volleyed attack off, I'm not sure how much more Froch had left. Only certainty is that Froch, Groves and Hearn should be kissing the souls of Fosters feet now.

Cheers Rodders

Froch was getting stronger the closer he got. Groves looked cooked to me.

Agree on the last point, though.

72 hours time we'll all be suffering from big fight come down...Must say Froch looks very focussed....Been impressed with his demeanor..

Just hope we don't have a Quigg-Monroe 1..

Bunce saying on talksport Froch bandaged up like a mummy when the cameras are not rolling, believing he maybe carrying injuries. Again probably baloney, bit like the Froch sparring session with Eubank, surely you wouldnt want to air that.

Cheers Rodders

Watched a video of Froch sparring Eubank JR last night, he was getting caught clean an awful lot and was being forced back as well.

If Froch goes in with the game plan to out muscle Groves then he's going to take an awful lot of punishment and eventually that granite chin will break.

In between being harassed I managed to watch a few rounds of the first fight and was shocked at how much Groves head hunted first time around ..

36 year old opponent surely go to the body more and take the legs...

Groves is the younger man......

I guess difficult not too Truss, giving the success of dropping Froch so heavily and unable to miss with that big right hand. I agree though, Ward hurt Froch to the body and Groves may do well following suit.

Cheers Rodders

Scored it the same when I rewatched it, gave Froch the 5th and 8th with GG a 10-8 in the first = 78-73 GG going into the 9th.

If GG had been allowed to go down, but survived the 9th, it would have ben 86-83 GG on my card going into the championship rounds.

Assuming Froch took all 3 (but no further kd's) then I'd have had it a draw.

Close fight but tbh there was only ever going to be one winner as if Froch hadn't got the stoppage, the cards tell us GG was about to get screwed to an MD/SD loss anyway.

I had it 5-3....with one 10-8...

Think the ninth had it progressed would have been 10-8..

So just one point in it.

Not one sided for me..

Can't believe so many get taken in by sparring videos, they get released so the opponent sees what they're meant to see.

Yeah you're right HH, I mean when Khan released the video before the Garcia fight of him getting caught by hooks constantly, it showed Garcia what he was meant to see.

Must admit he seemed to be slapping Eubank about at will..

Whilst sparring is sparring..Have to believe Saunders hammers the spoilt brat..

Froch was getting caught clean by Eubank Jr in that sparring session, leaving himself open. Take from it what you will, perhaps a deliberate red herring from Team Froch, but if you take it at face value it was the speed of Eubank Jr - the younger man - that was bothering Froch, a problem he had with Grove first time & that he'll have again on Saturday.

Groves to stop Froch this time. Rounds 4-6. Mark me words

Watching the behind the ropes, its interesting to listen to mcrackens take and how it differs from Froch, which shows how Froch is slightly delusional. I would have thought the mind games might have sung from the same sheet. the 6th round being the biggest point of contention there.

Also listening to the groves trainer talks about the shift in tactics from taking the centre of the ring to allowing froch to come forward, then the footage which show how little froch seemed to be landing. Keep in mind that as a fight goes on it is natural to assume that there will be some tiredness come into it, the stoppage seems even more of a bad call. the post above with the scores that showed Groves was likely to get screwed anyway...

Im convinced this is Frochs is last fight, and he will lose.

In my opinion, to give Froch more than two rounds going into the ninth last time is to be giving him a serious benefit of the doubt. I can't even give the close rounds to him such was Groves' superior ringmanship, footwork and shot selection.

If Froch is anything other than 100% fit and 100% on the money he gets battered from pillar to post. But a spot on Froch can come through it and tough out a late stoppage if Groves hasn't adjusted his game plan accordingly.

One thing is for sure; I'm excited.

makes such a change in boxing to not know the outcome of fight before hand in a big fight. not enough 50/50 fights these days, its become such a rarity that we now have to pay 16.95 for the privilege

Froch did seem to be strapped up heavily. Wisdom says it's a red herring though, can't see Froch releasing a video stating 'here are my injuries and weaknesses'.

the contsant affirmation from Froch that Groves was beaten on the night by a better man is something i find really irksome. Would be much happier if Froch said "fair play I got lucky with that stoppage, had a bad night, and will settle all doubt in the rematch" how can getting your arse handed to you by someone you said wasnt at your level and then a controversial stoppage lead one to believe you were the better man?

This mindset is entirely why I think Froch has already lost this fight.

until the last one i was a big froch fan, bought into everything he said...not anymore

He was on top when it was stopped and looked like closing the deal.

Stupid to say he was lucky and disrespectful to a gutsy fighter who produced an impressive comeback..

Come on..

Been a few comments recently from Froch re retirement so there's the possibility he already has an eye on a life outside boxing. He talks about how comfortable he is financially and securing his legacy (which may or may not actually be his property portfolio as opposed to how he's perceived by the public). Never a good sign when fighters start talking about retirement as it's generally considered to mean that they've been thinking about for much longer than they've been talking about it.

Had Froch retired after beating Kessler he'd have been viewed in a much more favourable light but these two fights with Groves will highlight just how much he's slipped and there'll be rumblings about him getting out at the right time. Genuinely don't think there's much more improvement to be made in Froch and any big money fights he's looking at (Chavez or Ward) will end up in him getting well paid to take a real beating.

Win, lose or draw this weekend, Froch will not be happy because whoever he fights there will always be a large vocal group shouting that Calzaghe would have beaten him anyway and it still irks him.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:He was on top when it was stopped and looked like closing the deal.

Stupid to say he was lucky and disrespectful to a gutsy fighter who produced an impressive comeback..

Come on..

There's always arguments re fighters' safety but then again, you only have to look at Castillo/Corrales to know that a fighter should be given a bit more time to pull something out the bag. Also look at round 9 of Gatti/Ward and how a more nervous ref could have jumped in early and ruined a classic.

Just your opinion that Froch was close to ending the fight (which you're entitled to hold obviously) but who says Groves doesn't weather that little storm and see out the round or that that was actually Froch's last hurrah?

Shows how much you dislike him Dave when you proclaim that Chavez would give him a beating, so little impartiality on the subject.

All that Slayer music has screwed with his head..

Congratulations by the way..Hope he looks like his real Dad !!

We'll never know. Robbed of a conclusive ending to a fascinating fight. Hence the 80,000 sell out. Howard Foster has made Froch, Groves and Hearn millions!!

First off I’m new to the boxing forum but am amazed at the level of knowledge you guys have and enjoy reading these threads.  This fight has got me so excited I wanted to weigh in with my 2 cents.

After the first fight I was convinced that Groves would beat Froch easily in a rematch, and probably early in the fight.  This was due to how easily and often he beat Froch to the punch in the first.  I also thought Froch looked slightly scared of George and some desperation boxing in the 8th and 9th rocked Groves and saved him.  He was being hit at will by the straight right, pushed back, and his own attacks were either being evaded or mostly taken on the gloves.  No doubt Froch does hit hard as evidenced by George’s 2 shiners although I think George shed his chinny image by taking them well.  As for the stoppage, despite being hurt George was throwing back and had his hands up.  Agree with other who have said that despite that he shouldn’t have turned his back slightly on Froch which I think was inexperience.

During the build up to this fight I started to doubt that the rematch would continue from where round 6 left off and believed Froch had underestimated Groves and wouldn’t do again.  However after watching their first fight back and seeing the gulf in technique and strategy between the two, plus Groves unwavering self-belief, I am now convinced Groves will win in a very one-sided fight by stoppage.  Not to mention that during this build up Froch has seemed composed although apart from saying he underestimated Groves he hasn’t offered any suggestions as to how he will deal with him better this time.  None of us know what effect the beating he took will have on him but  considering his age and his track record of tough fights I think this will have slowed him down and play on his mind come fight night.  The only way I can see Froch winning is if Groves doesn’t stick to the game plan and gets reckless.  Considering how certain he is that he will beat Froch I do not see this happening but it is a possibility.  

I have enjoyed this build up as much as to their first fight.  It has been less explosive but just as intriguing.  I hope should Groves win the world title that he stays grounded and not become an international superstar.  What would make my night would be Froch’s brother to get a slap.

I cannot wait for this and predicting a KO in 5 or 6, although I think it could be as early as 2.  Congratulations to both of them for taking this on as we need more fights like this.  Would love Khan-Brook, Frampton-Quigg, Bellew-Cleverly, and a returning Haye-Fury in 2015 to bring us more top class domestic fights.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Shows how much you dislike him Dave when you proclaim that Chavez would give him a beating, so little impartiality on the subject.

Chavez is no great shakes but he hits rather hard and even after being mugged by Martinez for 33 minutes, he was still there to drop him in the 12th. One can only surmise that Froch ain't getting any better as time goes on and if he's looking for a big money fight to close out his career, it's Ward or Chavez (although I fear they'll try and tempt Kessler over again). Ward beats Froch all day every day. Chavez can be outboxed but Froch is no boxer, he's also struggled to impose himself whenever he's fought in the USA and I fear that the occasion will get to him and when you factor in that, in the back of his mind, he knows it's his last fight, the warning signs are there. A few years ago, I wouldn't be overly concerned but Froch is getting hit with alarming regularity BUT he's also starting to feel the effects of these shots. Kessler had him wobbly and we know what Groves did to him. Calzaghe was dropped by both Jones and Hopkins and he also had a reputation for being able to take a punch. Unlike Calzaghe, Froch won't be fighting "old men" he'll be fighting youngsters and if he does take on someone like Chavez, who's to say Froch doesn't end up like Gatti getting beaten by a guy who doesn't deserve him name on their record?

Irrespective of my feelings towards Froch, I will often cite how much there is about him to be admired but I fear that his desire to be ranked above Calzaghe (in the eyes of the public at least) will end up his undoing. For all his talk about being settled and happy with a life outside the ring, Froch desperately craves that validation and I far he'll go to the well once too often.

is there likely to be a bigger day than this?

Welcome aboard Animal

Indeed, welcome Animal. If there's one thing this fight has done it has got more people involved in boxing. Animal sounds like a proper fan but there are so many people going to this who are a) going for a p!ss up b) genuinely intruiged but know nothing. I'm almost glad I'm not going in that regard. But lots of part time fans are back and interested again, its superb.

It'll be a hell of a night though, almost certainly an 'I was there' evening.

Cheers Rowley and King. I only started following boxing 2 years ago when I took part in a white collar but have been hooked ever since and slowly trying to catch up on my history. I really hope one of the undercard fights catches fire too so that the crowd are amply hyped for the main course.

I don't think the undercard fights need to hype this one. We were all half dead through boredom by the time Groves walked in first time and it still went mental. It'd be nice if we did get a decent fight prior though. It'd make a change!!

Ok, as a self confessed Froch fanboy, this is hard for me.

Alot of excellent points made on this thread, so I won't rattle on too long. Basically, I have been trying to way up what I think Froch can still take in terms of punishment and how good Groves stamina and discipline will be.

Groves doesn't have a great defence, and Froch's is notoriously poor. If Froch makes it to the sixth, I think he KOs Groves in second half of fight. I can't seee how Froch can avoid eating leather before that, though. Groves is quicker, has better footwork, is far more fresh and has pop. Froch will react whenever punched, because he always does.

This is either a more conclusive repeat of first fight, with less drama at beginning and end, or a changing of the guard we have seen one hundred times over in boxing where Froch finally succumbs to age and war weariness. I am 50-50 on which will happen. I will make a prediction in 5-4-3-2 . . .

Don't worry animal. I hear de Gale is a hit with the 36-50 female section who've seen him strut his stuff while they were fetching their kids from the movies/ice rink. If they catch life, Wembley will be like you've never seen it before.

Here's a question to everyone, if i say that lightly if either man gets took out inside 1 or 2 rounds, will people feel short changed on such a big event, are people expecting a value for money fight similar to the one that got served up in the last one. Whats your thoughts.....

Just took the 16/1 Froch to win in either rounds 8 or 9,that's how I see it,Froch  may fight cautiously early on to avoid taking Groves big right hands,after that I see Froch pressurising and drawing Groves into his type of fight,Froch wears Groves down and stops him.

I think after all the criticism Froch has taken he will have a point to prove, coming over cool on camera but he will be seething inside,still feel Froch took the 1st fight as a formality,this time he'll be fully focused.

One things for sure I hope whether its a stoppage or points for either man,there's no controversy.

Very much dependent upon the supporting fights Daniel;

If Gonzales vs De Gale or the Mitchell/McDonnell fights turn out to be good scraps then the main event can pan out whichever way and people won't be too bothered.

However if the card prior to the main event is complete dross then feel many will feel short changed and Hearn could struggle to warrant putting on another Stadium fight without people having major reservations.

That being said; all signs point to around 3/4 of those going being 'casual' fans who are there purely from a 'i was there on the night' stand point...so will they really care at all regardless of how the evening goes...

Nico the gman wrote:Just took the 16/1 Froch to win in either rounds 8 or 9,that's how I see it,Froch  may fight cautiously early on to avoid taking Groves big right hands,after that I see Froch pressurising and drawing Groves into his type of fight,Froch wears Groves down and stops him.

I think after all the criticism Froch has taken he will have a point to prove, coming over cool on camera but he will be seething inside,still feel Froch took the 1st fight as a formality,this time he'll be fully focused.

One things for sure I hope whether its a stoppage or points for either man,there's no controversy.

What was Yusef Mack, a genuine threat or a marking time fight til something better came along?

Froch had big plans for fights after both Groves and Mack and yet some people think he decided to take Mack more seriously than Groves. Froch is meticulous in his preparation and the idea that he decided to coast last time out and risk scuppering his chances of a headline fight in Vegas is frankly embarrassing, ridiculous and insulting to Groves.

No fighter worth his salt underestimates his opposition and I don't see Froch being foolish enough to think that he could slack off when he wasn't doing it previously. Nope, sadly it's easier for him to come out and say he wasn't properly prepared than admit Groves is actually a bloody good fighter and (gasp) he might also be slipping.

Eddie saw first hand what nearly happened to Kell Brook when he slacked off in training prior to Carson Jones and I find it difficult to believe that he would allow his biggest cash cow to do the same and risk losing them both millions.

Got to agree, I don't buy into this 'he did a Lennox' nonsense. Lennox was in his prime and took his eye off the ball, he came in physically unprepared when he got ko'd. As has already been said, Froch is meticulous, probably more than meticulous in fact. I wonder if his diary is beginning to tell him that he's slowing up, are the doubts there? If they are then it won't take much from Groves to get him worried again. Had Froch not been prepared he would definitely have lost the first fight.

Lewis once said that the gym can give you a false impression and that you do need a good trainer watching everything. You can record in your little book that you've done your 3 x 200 sit-ups etc but if they're of a poor quality then they aren't going to assist you. Your trainer knows when you're working hard and the fact you're sweating just might mean you're not as fit as you used to be.

As you get older you work twice as hard for half the results.

Worried about Froch...The way he lacks self esteem one has to worry about how he'd cope with losing this fight....

I mean he has to incessantly mention four world titles And 12 title fights ad nauseum in a bid to gain the acknowledgement he thinks he needs but already has...

Froch seems to be banking on two things: paying more respect to Groves' talent, and training harder. Neither can act as a substitute for talent. Groves by early KO in change of guard.

WHAT?!!!!

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Worried about Froch...The way he lacks self esteem one has to worry about how he'd cope with losing this fight....

I mean he has to incessantly mention four world titles And 12 title fights ad nauseum in a bid to gain the acknowledgement he thinks he needs but already has...

Just look back at how he coped losing to Kessler and Ward. He was robbed/didn't lose the fight, disrupted by an ash cloud and jet-lagged/forced to fight away from home (which he's also done when he'd won in America previously but clearly hadn't affected him at all back then). As uncharitable as it sounds, one of them needs to be knocked clean out in order for there to be no dispute as to who is the better man, but then again Hatton was winning by a country mile before Manny rendered him senseless

DAVE667 wrote:

Nico the gman wrote:Just took the 16/1 Froch to win in either rounds 8 or 9,that's how I see it,Froch  may fight cautiously early on to avoid taking Groves big right hands,after that I see Froch pressurising and drawing Groves into his type of fight,Froch wears Groves down and stops him.

I think after all the criticism Froch has taken he will have a point to prove, coming over cool on camera but he will be seething inside,still feel Froch took the 1st fight as a formality,this time he'll be fully focused.

One things for sure I hope whether its a stoppage or points for either man,there's no controversy.

What was Yusef Mack, a genuine threat or a marking time fight til something better came along?

Froch had big plans for fights after both Groves and Mack and yet some people think he decided to take Mack more seriously than Groves. Froch is meticulous in his preparation and the idea that he decided to coast last time out and risk scuppering his chances of a headline fight in Vegas is frankly embarrassing, ridiculous and insulting to Groves.

No fighter worth his salt underestimates his opposition and I don't see Froch being foolish enough to think that he could slack off when he wasn't doing it previously. Nope, sadly it's easier for him to come out and say he wasn't properly prepared than admit Groves is actually a bloody good fighter and (gasp) he might also be slipping.

Eddie saw first hand what nearly happened to Kell Brook when he slacked off in training prior to Carson Jones and I find it difficult to believe that he would allow his biggest cash cow to do the same and risk losing them both millions.

Froch reiterated before the 1st fight that Groves wasn't in the same league as him that would suggest Froch thought it was an easy nights work,especially as he'd also dropped Groves in sparring.For me Froch underestimated Groves.Nobody's suggesting Groves isn't a good fighter,but the 3 fights prior to Groves Froch didn't look like a fighter on the slide.
Cash cow or not Eddie Hearn is the promoter and has absolutely jack all to do how a fighter trains,you think Bob Arum tells Roach how to coach Pacquiao.

He's a *clears throat* 'brutal, hardend, toughened, war veteran, warrior'.

KingMonkey wrote:He's a *clears throat*  'brutal, hardend, toughened, war veteran, warrior'.

Who Groves or Froch.

Nico the gman wrote:

KingMonkey wrote:He's a *clears throat*  'brutal, hardend, toughened, war veteran, warrior'.

Who Groves or Froch.

*blinks at screen*