Edinburgh V Munster

First topic message reminder :

Edinburgh Rugby   v   Munster
Saturday 3rd May 2014, KO 17:00
Meggetland

Referee: Marius Mitrea (FIR, 28th competition game)
Assistant Referees: Peter Allan, Bob Nevins (both SRU)
Citing Commissioner: John Kirk (SRU)
TMO: Ian Ramage (SRU)

Live on BBC Alba and TG4

Head to head:

Played 22
Munster with 22 wins to Edinburgh's 6 wins
Munster with 69 tries to Edinburgh's 40
Munster with 641 points to Edinburgh's 431

Saying that, when Edinburgh last played Munster at home they beat them in the HK!

Teams:

Edinburgh

15 Jack Cuthbert
14 Tom Brown
13 Matt Scott
12 Andries Strauss
11 Tim Visser
10 Carl Bezuidenhout
9 Greig Laidlaw CAPTAIN

1 Alasdair Dickinson
2 Ross Ford
3 Willem Nel
4 Grant Gilchrist
5 David Denton
6 Mike Coman
7 Tomas Leonardi
8 Cornell Du Preez

Substitutes
16 James Hilterbrand
17 Wicus Blauuw
18 Simon Berghan
19 Ben Toolis
20 Dimitri Basilaia
21 Grayson Hart
22 Piers Francis
23 Sam Beard


Munster

Simon Zebo, Gerhard VD Heever, Johne Murphy, Denis Hurley, Andrew Conway, JJ Hanrahan, Conor Murray
James Cronin, Duncan Casey, John Ryan, Donncha O'Callaghan, Paul O'Connell Capt., CJ Stander, Tommy O'Donnell, Paddy Butler.

Replacements: Damien Varley, Dave Kilcoyne, Alan Cotter, Dave Foley, James Coughlan, Duncan Williams, Ian Keatley, Luke O'Dea..

Fair play to Irish posters (Nachos, ME, might have been another) that have come back and said they personally do not see Scottish victories as anything other than Scottish victories - thank you. I checked and it was just MunsterMac that made the suggestion - I've seen others on other threads so I prob overreacted a bit to this one. Can't remember who it was or when on other thread, nor can I be bothered to go check but it is a bit frustrating as I can recall hearing it from *some* fans quite a lot. Irish press as well but that's not the fans!

Dropping it  like all MFLuvvies drop the ball  

ME-109 wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Any Irish poster know if this game or the Connacht game is being shown on Irish TV?

Try though I might, I am not Irish, but I do know that the Munster game is on TG4, but the Connacht game is not televised.

We can all dream.

I have a green jumper, enjoy Conor McPherson plays and once ate a potato.

Apparently, this is not enough.

What type of potato?

When I was in Sligo town, I had a cracking champ made with local roosters.

George Carlin wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Any Irish poster know if this game or the Connacht game is being shown on Irish TV?

Try though I might, I am not Irish, but I do know that the Munster game is on TG4, but the Connacht game is not televised.

We can all dream.

I have a green jumper, enjoy Conor McPherson plays and once ate a potato.

Apparently, this is not enough.

What type of potato?

When I was in Sligo town, I had a cracking champ made with local roosters.

If you have a green (genuine) Aran Jumper then you might qualify ...Conor McPherson is a little more modern and edgy so if you said you read Ulysses (horrible, pretentious and sleep inducing) it would sound better.

Ineffable wrote:Fair play to Irish posters (Nachos, ME, might have been another) that have come back and said they personally do not see Scottish victories as anything other than Scottish victories - thank you. I checked and it was just MunsterMac that made the suggestion - I've seen others on other threads so I prob overreacted a bit to this one. Can't remember who it was or when on other thread, nor can I be bothered to go check but it is a bit frustrating as I can recall hearing it from *some* fans quite a lot. Irish press as well but that's not the fans!

Dropping it  like all MFLuvvies drop the ball  

I guess the league gives you another chance so maybe there was some inference there in relation to the HC where the chances are less so. However the loss to Glasgow was very annoying and I dont think it was because the players didnt care...there was a lot of unhappy munster fans after that. Getting a home semi looks a stretch now and if we lose any points in the next two games we will struggle away.

Sorry Ineffable but I meant no offence.

I was looking at it purely from a Munster point of view.

I was there that night and Glasgow (and their fans) were superb but Munster were shocking.

There was no doubt but that the win over Toulouse was still in the minds of a lot of the players and they admitted as much afterwards admitting that they 'fell in love with themselves'.

I'm not saying that if Penney had put out his strongest possible team and they all had their minds firmly on the match in hand that they definitely would have won but I do expect that the match against Glasgow is taken every bit as seriously as the Toulouse match and it patently wasn't.

In my mind (and I know I'm probably a minority of 1) that match against Glasgow was as important as the Toulon match given the precarious state of our finances ATM and had we won it we would probably have a home semi (and all the dosh that that would bring) wrapped up by now.

MunsterMac wrote:Sorry Ineffable but I meant no offence.

I was looking at it purely from a Munster point of view.

I was there that night and Glasgow (and their fans) were superb but Munster were shocking.

There was no doubt but that the win over Toulouse was still in the minds of a lot of the players and they admitted as much afterwards admitting that they 'fell in love with themselves'.

I'm not saying that if Penney had put out his strongest possible team and they all had their minds firmly on the match in hand that they definitely would have won but I do expect that the match against Glasgow is taken every bit as seriously as the Toulouse match and it patently wasn't.

In my mind (and I know I'm probably a minority of 1)that match against Glasgow was as important as the Toulon match given the precarious state of our finances ATM and had we won it we would probably have a home semi (and all the dosh that that would bring) wrapped up by now.

Disagree. Both fronts are seen as being important this year and a lot of supporters know that and were hoping we would be good enough in both competitions. We could end up with nothing which would be a disaster to be honest.

Oops just edited it...bolded the wrong bit..

Anyhooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

back to this game

I think Edinburgh could cause a wee upset here!  It's extremely unlikely that they will, but I just have a feeling that they are due a win!

Yes Me but it's one thing saying it and even the players and management telling themselves that but it's another thing it being a reality.

The acid test is when you have a HC quarter final followed by a crucial Rabo match and the reality is Munster weren't at the required level against Glasgow whereas they went well beyond the required level against Toulouse.

In my mind we still haven't moved on much from the attitude shown by ROG after we were knocked out in the group stages by Toulon a couple of years ago when he declared the season was finished as far as he was concerned and it was only January.

I disagree to a certain extent. They have put in a great effort in both fronts. Certainly the Leinster game (pre Toulouse) and the Glasgow game (pre Toulon) were both possibly the most disappointing showings this year (with the Scarlets game next in line). Other than those we have been pretty good. I would like to see a replication of the Toulon and Toulouse efforts over the next two+ games..would be disappointed if we dont.

I agree that we have been much better in the Rabo this year (that wouldn't be difficult after last season) but like I said the acid test is when we have important Rabo matches around the same time as the HC and in that respect this year has been no different than any other.

Fair play Mac, you've elucidated it a bit and makes sense. I'll concede that the same intensity as vs Toulouse just wasn't there and it's an interesting point that the Rabo home semi was as important because of the home ground aspect.

Munster by 15

I expect Muster to respond after their HC exit, but at the same time if Edinburgh show up we'll have a game on our hands!

Munster by 10
(If Embra turn up - Edinburgh by 3)

Edinburgh team:

15 Jack Cuthbert
14 Tom Brown
13 Matt Scott
12 Andries Strauss
11 Tim Visser
10 Carl Bezuidenhout
9 Greig Laidlaw CAPTAIN

1 Alasdair Dickinson
2 Ross Ford
3 Willem Nel
4 Grant Gilchrist
5 David Denton
6 Mike Coman
7 Tomas Leonardi
8 Cornell Du Preez

Substitutes
16 James Hilterbrand
17 Wicus Blauuw
18 Simon Berghan
19 Ben Toolis
20 Dimitri Basilaia
21 Grayson Hart
22 Piers Francis
23 Sam Beard

Interesting team, Denton even out of position should do a better job than VdW.
Good to see Basil back

Yeah we're really struggling at 2nd row and openside.

I think VDV on the whole has done well for us but he hasn't been great the last few games.

Denton has plsyed 80 minutes of every game since the 6N so he's likely to be hanging too.

Munster team (which is fairly interesting!)


Munster:
Simon Zebo, Gerhard VD Heever, Johne Murphy, Denis Hurley, Andrew Conway, JJ Hanrahan, Conor Murray
James Cronin, Duncan Casey, John Ryan, Donncha O'Callaghan, Paul O'Connell Capt., CJ Stander, Tommy O'Donnell, Paddy Butler.

Replacements: Damien Varley, Dave Kilcoyne, Alan Cotter, Dave Foley, James Coughlan, Duncan Williams, Ian Keatley, Luke O'Dea.

What are the interesting points to the selection? Looks pretty strong.

it will be interesting to see how much of a schooling that Munster 2nd row hands to ours!

Are Munster playing with 5 wingers in that backline? Should be interesting   

BIg test for Gilchrist - he has had a very good season and will have to run the lineout against 2 of Ireland's most experienced 2nd rows ever...

Also looking forward to the Laidlaw-Murray dual - Laidlaw was absolutely superb in the HK win over Munster, and it is his last home game for Edinburgh.

Denton has a very good 2nd row background, even when playing 8 it was not unusual to see him trying to disrupt rolling mauls, he will not disappoint tomorrow.

VinceWLB wrote:Denton has a very good 2nd row background, even when playing 8 it was not unusual to see him trying to disrupt rolling mauls, he will not disappoint tomorrow.

really? He's normally 20 metres away from mauls waiting to get the ball so he can run into someone and knock on!

tigertattie wrote:

VinceWLB wrote:Denton has a very good 2nd row background, even when playing 8 it was not unusual to see him trying to disrupt rolling mauls, he will not disappoint tomorrow.

really? He's normally 20 metres away from mauls waiting to get the ball so he can run into someone and knock on!

Looking at that Munster team, it wont make for great viewing if he does that tomorrow!

So Glasgow have Swinson, Gray, Naka, Ryder and Kellock on the books, the later pair doing nothing this weekend, and Edinburgh are down to one fit lock and a couple of kids. You've got to love the SRU.

Denton is not a lock, no more than Leonardi is an openside flanker. That pack is a mess, and could be in for a drubbing if Munster turn it on. It continues to baffle me that we let Rennie go, and surely a promising young lock like Ben Toolis would be a better bet than Denton at lock.

I also hate seeing Scott shifted to 13, particularly to accommodate a completely average NSQ player like Strauss.

Edinburgh are a mess once more.

That's a very good point - given we gave Glasgow Cross when they had international tighheads fit, surely we could have got Ryder or someone like that when we only had one lock fit??

The Edinburgh fly halves are Carl Bezuidenhout and Piers Francis, for the last home game of the season against Munster. Two NSQ players who will never be good enough to play for Scotland.

Glasgow have a three-way contest between Russell, Jackson and Weir. Three SQ players each desperate to be playing as much rugby at 10 as possible.

Says it all really.

RDW_Scotland wrote:That's a very good point - given we gave Glasgow Cross when they had international tighheads fit, surely we could have got Ryder or someone like that when we only had one lock fit??

Ryder has been out injured for a while now and I doubt he will be back this season. Even if he was fit the deadline for loan signings was a few weeks ago.

Fair enough then!

It is still a valid point - we have been struggling at 10 all season and have been struggling at lock for over a month now.

Am loving the look of the Munster tight 5. To me Cronin is a better scrummager than Killer and John Ryan is showing really strongly. DOC and POC are winding back the years with DOC having his best season in years.

The backs are just mad Ted. Hurley and Murphy played against Connacht I think at 12 and 13 and did alright. Conway looks like he is out to prove himself and was my mom against Connacht so more of the same please.

Zeeeeeeeeeeboooooooo at full back this could be the start of something beautiful.

If we have any ambitions of home semi final we need to get BP win here.

BlueMuff wrote:If we have any ambitions of home semi final we need to get BP win here.

I'd imagine you will. The only question is will the 4 try BP be wrapped up before half time.
These next 2 games are going to be painful for Edinburgh, I'm quite glad that all the games are on at the same time next weekend, as well be scared the horror show in Dublin.

Yeah traditionally Edinburgh roll over and raise the white flag the last game of the season.

Can see Leinster putting on 50-60 points.

Can see Munster doing the same if Edinburgh don't suddenly find their early HK form again!

Looks to me that the MFL are in line for a real spanking.
Is there something in the air at Murrayfield that makes rational selection impossible? Denton at 5, Scott(12) at 13, Ford at hooker?
5 points to Munster just when we needed the exfoliators to show some manly stubble. 

GLove39 wrote:

BlueMuff wrote:If we have any ambitions of home semi final we need to get BP win here.

I'd imagine you will. The only question is will the 4 try BP be wrapped up before half time.
These next 2 games are going to be painful for Edinburgh, I'm quite glad that all the games are on at the same time next weekend, as well be scared the horror show in Dublin.

I said we need 5 points never said anything about actually getting them. I was there for the HC match early Sunday kick off and we were terrible so nothing would surprise me this weekend

Denton on tw4tter saying that he hopes that this is his one and only game at lock - odd

Just saw the line-up. I genuinely feel sorry for Edinburgh, clearly they are battered with injuries. Denton is a warrior and will front up well at lock but ultimately we have to try and keep the ball live as we're going to enjoy a mahoosive bottom fisting in the set piece.

As FES has elegantly pointed out, the disparity in options between Glasgow and Edinburgh at present is really not funny any more and has got to be sorted out for next season.

George Carlin wrote:
As FES has elegantly pointed out, the disparity in options between Glasgow and Edinburgh at present is really not funny any more and has got to be sorted out for next season.

As a Glasgow supporter I find it quite amusing.  

Edinburgh have been badly mismanaged for a number of seasons and are paying for a few years of poor recruiting policy and player development.

does nothing for Scotland though Dorothy

plus, as a glasgow supporter, you really want Edinburgh to deny Munster the bonus point!

tigertattie wrote:does nothing for Scotland though Dorothy

plus, as a glasgow supporter, you really want Edinburgh to deny Munster the bonus point!

Only at the wind up. Of course I want a strong Edinburgh side, assuming its full of mainly Scots Qualified guys.

Denton at second row is an awful idea and this sort of selection reminds of the dark days of Michael Bradley. I really do fear for Edinburgh these days as they have not made much progress under Alan Solomons.

To be fair he had very little choice - it was Denton or a very inexperienced EDP against two of the most experienced locks in world rugby!

Welcome Second Ranker. Nice to have anoher Scottish poster (I'm guessing?)

RDW_Scotland wrote:To be fair he had very little choice - it was Denton or a very inexperienced EDP against two of the most experienced locks in world rugby!

....and yet, in my opinion, he still managed to make a bad choice.

So which locks are out for Edinburgh? It seemed at one point that we had thousands of them.

van der Westhuizen, Cox and Atkins are out. Where is McAlpine? Are Alex and Ben T really worse options than Denton?

Not sure I like Dinny and Johne playing together in the centre. Dinny looked way off the mark against Leinster..

Hey Second Ranker, good to have you here!

George Carlin wrote:So which locks are out for Edinburgh? It seemed at one point that we had thousands of them.

van der Westhuizen, Cox and Atkins are out. Where is McAlpine? Are Alex and Ben T really worse options than Denton?

No idea about mcalpine, but he hasn't featured in an Edinburgh squad in a hell of a long time.

He obviously doesn't think the toolis brothers are up to it yet.

Oh the second row blues.
If only you hadn't given us that big lad you thought would never make it.
What was his name?
AL KELLOCK.  
oh you pampered Jades of the east, repent your foolish ways.

Does anyone else think Denton's tweets about being fairly unenthusiastic about the prospect of playing in the 2nd row were fairly unprofessional?

I know he was just joking and I'm sure he'll give it his best shot, but doesn't really give out the best message.

RDW, as I said on Your Match last week in a moment of madness I put my hand up to play second row on Saturday which is a lot more than I was able to do until Wednesday. Even for Dozer there will be a lot of muscles he doesn't usually use and they will hurt after the game.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Does anyone else think Denton's tweets about being fairly unenthusiastic about the prospect of playing in the 2nd row were fairly unprofessional?

I know he was just joking and I'm sure he'll give it his best shot, but doesn't really give out the best message.

That was foolish no doubt about it and he came across as a bit of show ponny in saying so. What's the problem about playing in the row when you are 196 cm 115 kg?