Munster V Edinburgh

No one has created a thread on this (probably because no one cares!) so thought I might as well!

If things aren't bad enough for us Scottish rugby fans, likely to be drowning our sorrows on Saturday night, those that are Edinburgh fans are faced with their team playing games again!

We played Munster 2s at the start of the season and lost to them, so suspect this will be the same again considering we've only won 4 games all season.

Edinburgh

Edinburgh Rugby team v Munster (kick-off 7.45pm)

15 Greig Tonks

14 Dougie Fife
13 Ben Cairns
12 Ben Atiga
11 Tom Brown

10 Piers Francis
9 Richie Rees

1 John Yapp
2 Andy Titterrell
3 Willem Nel
4 Perry Parker
5 Izak van der Westhuizen
6 Sean Cox CAPTAIN
7 Stuart McInally
8 Netani Talei

Substitutes
16 Steven Lawrie
17 Allan Jacobsen
18 Alex Allan
19 Grant Gilchrist
20 Hamish Watson
21 Chris Leck
22 Gregor Hunter
23 Lee Jones

On paper that is a strong pack and a bit of an experimental backline to say the least but you just don'w know what will happen with this team anymore. Gutting that Ross Rennie still isn't fit (When will the SRU ever tell us when he is going to play again??) and we are starting to look short at 7 with Roddy Grant ruled out for the season. Very young tighthead on the bench too.

Munster

01 Marcus Horan
02 Damien Varley
03 BJ Botha
04 Ian Nagle
05 Billy Holland
06 CJ Stander
07 Sean Dougall
08 James Coughlan
09 Duncan Williams
10 Ian Keatley
11 Danny Barnes
12 JJ Hanrahan
13 Ivan Dineen
14 Johne Murphy
15 Denis Hurley

16 Mike Sherry
17 Wian du Preez
18 John Ryan
19 Dave Foley
20 Tommy O'Donnell
21 Paddy Butler
22 Cathal Sheridan
23 Scott Deasy

RDW Scotland,

Munster team named:

01 Marcus Horan
02 Damien Varley
03 BJ Botha
04 Ian Nagle
05 Billy Holland
06 CJ Stander
07 Sean Dougall
08 James Coughlan
09 Duncan Williams
10 Ian Keatley
11 Danny Barnes
12 JJ Hanrahan
13 Ivan Dineen
14 Johne Murphy
15 Denis Hurley

16 Mike Sherry
17 Wian du Preez
18 John Ryan
19 Dave Foley
20 Tommy O'Donnell
21 Paddy Butler
22 Cathal Sheridan
23 Scott Deasy

Looks a decent team that Stag - recognise most of the names which is a good start!

We're tight on backs. With injury, missing internationals and our academy team away in Spain we're down to the bottom of barrel in the backs.

Have only 2 backs on the bench and 6 forwards.

I think O'Donnell, Butler and Sherry will be brilliant forwards to bring on the second half.

This is going to be an arm wrestle of a game between two packs forwards.

Any side fielding Francis and Atiga just makes me laugh - sorry, Embra fans

It's alright ASBO - Lee Jones is on the bench to come and fix everything that goes wrong...

Should be a good time to play Munster away - decent Munster pack but I don't think I've seen or heard of Dineen and Barnes, or Sheridan or Deasy, and Edinburgh are putting out some good outside backs with Cairns, Fife and Tonks (in particular).

It's basically now or never for Edinburgh this season - any hope of respectability in the league hinges on the next couple of games. The new signings are out in force in that Edinburgh pack and it's time to deliver. Sure, it's a strong Munster front row and James Coughlan is an excellent prospect, but with Nel, VDW, Cox and Talei that Edinburgh pack should be going there to win.

With Lawrie and Gilchrist on the bench Edinburgh have a bit of impact there, and I think Hamish Watson is going to need to get involved in 1st XV action between now and the end of the season. That's a horrible back row in terms of balance, and Munster tend to know a thing or two about the breakdown.

Sadly James Coughlan will never play for Ireland. He is 32 years old and is uncapped.

He got 20 minutes once against the Barbarians in an uncapped game but was a VERY late bloomer to and missed the boat internationally.

He wasn't involved with any rugby at Munster until 2006-2007. Up until they he played for an Dolphin RFC in Cork and basically just off the strength of his amatuer level performances Munster took a punt on him.

He's gone on to captain us, play against the All Blacks and captain the Ireland A team.

Interesting. I just assumed Coughlan was young as he'd only just broken through. I've seen him a couple of times and he was excellent.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Interesting. I just assumed Coughlan was young as he'd only just broken through. I've seen him a couple of times and he was excellent.

Yes he's taken to professional rugby like a duck to water. One of those players that the fans love because it wasn't that he was spotted at age 15 and did the whole academy and development scene and all that.

He just worked hard for his local team and was rewarded.

I do think that players sometimes slip out of the "system" too early, just because they didn't obtain the usual degree in gym monkey studies from the "elite academy" or whatever and progress through the "structures".

Scottish rugby certainly needs to be mindful of what's going on in the club sides, and must learn the lesson of Ryan Grant, who very nearly quit playing when Edinburgh decided he wasn't good enough. Thankfully Sean Lineen and co were on the ball and kept him going. Lo and behold he's now our first choice international loosehead by some distance, and managing to even squeeze into discussions about dark horses for the Lions.

England are learning similar lessons, plucking the likes of Twelvetrees and Easter from unconventional sources.

Big game for Barnes, Murphy and Nagle. Need to put a stake in the ground and put themselves in contention for consideration.

Be interesting to see how JJ gets on.

Think it was said but really strong looking bench with Sherrly TOD Du Preez all could make impact. What is the storey with Archer is he injured?

BlueMuff wrote:What is the storey with Archer is he injured?

I dont think so. I reckon he is being rested and we are trying to develop Ryan so we have cover when Botha leaves.

Once again Leonard gets totally overlooked, and Hunter will probably not come off the bench. The SRU need to hire a new director of rugby to reign Bradley in for what little time he hopefully has left on his contract. I remember being disillusioned during rafas final days, but at least you could watch edinburgh then with a small hope that they were going to have some sort of miracle match and win against the odds. With Bradley though, you dont get that, and then when you consider the way hes treating the young players at the club (leonard, Hunter, Watson, Walker etc), I struggle to think of anyone in rugby whos infuriates me any more thna him.

The whole Piers Francis debacle leaves a really sour taste. I really do think Hunter should be starting the game with Leonard on the bench. That's based on form and ability, not rugby prejudice. If we'd signed a NSQ better than the Scottish options then I'd be happy, but Francis, despite the odd flash here and there, doesn't look any better than Hunter or Leonard, and is clogging a spot.

The rise of Steven Lawrie probably means that Titterall's days ought to be numbered as well. Full marks for application and attitude, but he's just so small I can't help but feel he causes our scrum issues, and his throwing hasn't been the best in recent games. Again, I not convinced he's better than Lawrie, and Walker is a perfectly adequate 3rd choice hooker.

Why is Hislop not on the bench? Surely he has a bigger future in the game and at Edinburgh than Chunk, and again, on recent form I think there's little to choose between them. Chunk has been an awesome servant for Edinburgh, and I do think he's worth hanging onto as 3rd choice loosehead (for possibly one more season), he's got bags of experience, but I think we need to focus on Hislop's development now, and aim to get him up and running ready for 1st team action within two years. That's surely got to be the aim, and he'll learn nothing if we don't give him gametime from the bench.

He maybe didn’t want 2 newbie props on the bench away to Munster?

I'd pick the best props personally, not really bothered about experience too much.

Euan Murray has lots of experience. Doesn't seem to use it to much effect.

Did you lads see that Fraser Brown, Edinburgh cast off, is being given a chance to play his way into a contract at Glasgow for next season?

Disagree on Francis, I think he is definitely a good player but just needs more game time. Interested to see how he gets with reese, they worked very well together in last quarter of 1872 cup.

Actualy looks a better side without the Scottish Internationals boys playing !

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:Did you lads see that Fraser Brown, Edinburgh cast off, is being given a chance to play his way into a contract at Glasgow for next season?

You just know he'll end up being Lions captain in 2017!

bsando wrote:Disagree on Francis, I think he is definitely a good player but just needs more game time. Interested to see how he gets with reese, they worked very well together in last quarter of 1872 cup.

I assume you've seen him play a bit in NZ to justify this view. What was he like in the Super 15?

He hasn't played that much Super XV to be seen, fES, mostly just ITM - perhaps that's where bsando saw him

It's in Cork so all things going well I should be there, looking forward to seeing how JJ gets on at inside centre, the porspect of Keatley and JJ together intrigues me it must be said.

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:He hasn't played that much Super XV to be seen, fES, mostly just ITM - perhaps that's where bsando saw him

That's what I suspected. I think if he was called something like Brick or Chuck I'd like him more.

Just realised that only one person in the pack and 4 in the backs are Scottish qualified - that isn't a great situation!

Yeah that is not good, Glasgow might be supplying Scotland team for next few years.

I've seen him play in ITM FES, he has potential if you ask me. Seen him do a couple of fantastic bits of play under pressure. Good defensively as well. Importantly though, he wasn't the regular kicker at Waikato which may explain his rather poor goal kicking. I'm sure this could improve with proper coaching.

But important thing is Edinburgh sort their season out. It is saddening that last season it seemed guys like Leonard and maybe hunter were knocking on door for Scotland, and now they're barely featured.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Just realised that only one person in the pack and 4 in the backs are Scottish qualified - that isn't a great situation!

With Basilaia instead of McInally, it could be a 100% foreign pack, something any french side would be proud of. BTW i think this pack will more than hold its own against Munster.

Absolute Muck first half half. Worst than France. Rubbish.

Bit of a come down after the excitement at Murrayfield..

Williams is laughably bad.

valjester wrote:Williams is laughably bad.

Surely there is someone in the academy?

I think this ref tosses a coin in his mind then gives a scrum penalty to whoever it landed on!

RDW_Scotland wrote:I think this ref tosses a coin in his mind then gives a scrum penalty to whoever it landed on!

I feel for you on the last scrum RDW. I thought that Munster poped up first.

RDW_Scotland wrote:I think this ref tosses a coin in his mind then gives a scrum penalty to whoever it landed on!

Yep he really hasnt a clue and loves the sound of his own voice.

We really have to stop playing matches in Musgrave. No atmosphere, no crowd and it always rains......

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

valjester wrote:Williams is laughably bad.

Surely there is someone in the academy?

Cathal Sheridan and Brian Haugh are both better prospects than him. Hopefully Sheridan will get some time today.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:I think this ref tosses a coin in his mind then gives a scrum penalty to whoever it landed on!

I feel for you on the last scrum RDW. I thought that Munster poped up first.

Popping up is not a penalty. Williams taking another wrong decision, he is just a hopeless player.

valjester wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:I think this ref tosses a coin in his mind then gives a scrum penalty to whoever it landed on!

I feel for you on the last scrum RDW. I thought that Munster poped up first.

Popping up is not a penalty. Williams taking another wrong decision, he is just a hopeless player.

Its not usually but thats what the penalty was for..

Very soft high tackle penalties against Edinburgh!

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

valjester wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:I think this ref tosses a coin in his mind then gives a scrum penalty to whoever it landed on!

I feel for you on the last scrum RDW. I thought that Munster poped up first.

Popping up is not a penalty. Williams taking another wrong decision, he is just a hopeless player.

Its not usually but thats what the penalty was for..

The ref is clueless at scrum time, I thought that the scrum BJ got sinbinned for should not have been a penalty against him, but the Edinburgh prop for collapsing. It seems the ref, much like Clancy today, is guessing.

JJ really looks a class act, even off limited ball, the sooner he starts for Munster the better for Ireland. I think he
has the most potential out of all the young pretenders behind Sexton.

There musn't be a team in world rugby that has made as many unforced mistakes as Edinburgh have this season.

The end of the season couldn't come closer for us!

RDW_Scotland wrote:There musn't be a team in world rugby that has made as many unforced mistakes as Edinburgh have this season.

The end of the season couldn't come closer for us!

I presume Bradley is being shown the door at the end of the season? Letting him go was one of the biggest reasons for Connacht's revival over the past two years.

I think it's fair to say it is a certainty.

He can take the defence and forwards coach with him when he goes!

Lineout has been a shambles.

valjester wrote:JJ really looks a class act, even off limited ball, the sooner he starts for Munster the better for Ireland. I think he
has the most potential out of all the young pretenders behind Sexton.

Ive been wanting JJ to get games for Munster for some time now. Paddy Jackson was now where near as good as JJ at 20s imo but PJ is ahead of JJ because he is getting more gametime.

RDW_Scotland wrote:I think it's fair to say it is a certainty.

He can take the defence and forwards coach with him when he goes!

Lineout has been a shambles.

You could do a lot worse than hire Eddie O'Sullivan, I'm sure he will be interested, and he will have you playing exciting rugby if nothing else.

valjester wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:There musn't be a team in world rugby that has made as many unforced mistakes as Edinburgh have this season.

The end of the season couldn't come closer for us!

I presume Bradley is being shown the door at the end of the season? Letting him go was one of the biggest reasons for Connacht's revival over the past two years.

I wouldnt mind if he came to coach the Wolfhounds. His record at A level is impressive to say the least.

RDW_Scotland wrote:It's alright ASBO - Lee Jones is on the bench to come and fix everything that goes wrong...

Was'nt Lee Jones in Scotland's 6 Nations team last year, played well?

Or am I confused(which is normally quite alot).

Just put this game on. Looking to see JJ Hanrahan in action.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

valjester wrote:JJ really looks a class act, even off limited ball, the sooner he starts for Munster the better for Ireland. I think he
has the most potential out of all the young pretenders behind Sexton.

Ive been wanting JJ to get games for Munster for some time now. Paddy Jackson was now where near as good as JJ at 20s imo but PJ is ahead of JJ because he is getting more gametime.

Hmm Jackson has a lot of talent, obviously being a bit biased here, he is capable of running a backline, kicking his goals and running a backline. But, JJ on the other hand has that spark of being able to create something from nothing when no other player would even think of trying. I honestly think he has the attributes to be a better player than Sexton, which is quite a high target I know, but hopefully Munster manage him well.

O'Sullivan has been mentioned a few times with the Edinburgh lot on here - has he done much at club level? International management is quite different from day to day club coaching.

I've personally still never forgiven him for his handling of the Hines-O'gara incident!