The O'Classico- Leinster v Munster!

First topic message reminder :

LEINSTER

15. Rob Kearney
14. Fergus McFadden
13. Brian O'Driscoll
12. Gordon D'Arcy
11. Luke Fitzgerald
10. Ian Madigan
9. Eoin Reddan

1. Michael Bent
2. Richardt Strauss
3. Mike Ross
4. Devin Toner
5. Mike McCarthy
6. Kevin McLaughlin
7. Shane Jennings
8. Jamie Heaslip (c)

16. Sean Cronin
17. Jack O'Connell
18. Ed Byrne
19. Leo Cullen
20. Jordi Murphy
21. Isaac Boss
22. Jimmy Gopperth
23. Zane Kirchner

MUNSTER

15. Felix Jones
14. Keith Earls
13. Casey Laulala
12. Denis Hurley
11. Simon Zebo
10. Ian Keatley
9. Conor Murray

1. Dave Kilcoyne
2. Damien Varley
3. BJ Botha
4. Dave Foley
5. Paul O' Connell
6. Peter O'Mahony (c)
7. Tommy O'Donnell
8. James Coughlan

16. Duncan Casey
17. James Cronin
18. Alan Cotter
19. Donncha O'Callaghan
20. CJ Stander
21. Duncan Williams
22. JJ Hanrahan
23. Gerhard van den Heever

At Aviva Stadium, 7pm. Live on TG4

Referee: Alain Rolland
Assistant Referees: David Wilkinson, Michael Black (both IRFU)
Citing Commissioner: Peter Ferguson (IRFU)
TMO: Simon McDowell (IRFU)

Mickado wrote: 

You lads are taking this to strange new depths...

Just you lot wanting to try and distract from the fact that it is ridiculous to have Alain Rolland, not only a Leinster ref, but also a former Leinster player, ref a Leinster home game.

No doubt, he won't want to ruin another of BOD's last outings ......

SecretFly wrote: 

Pub Owning!!!!!!!!!!!!  The Mark of a MAN!

I've never owned a pub, what does that make me?  

An Assshole, Fly....an assshole.

Very immature.

Who's Video ref for this one because if its the fella who awarded 2 tries to Munster against Treviso I fancy them to win.....

GunsGerms wrote:

SecretFly wrote: 

Pub Owning!!!!!!!!!!!!  The Mark of a MAN!

I've never owned a pub, what does that make me?  

An Assshole, Fly....an assshole.

Very immature.

Non-pub owning makes me very immature? Or is just that you consider my response immature?

Whichever it is, it looks like I'm up shyte creek without a paddle.

Sin é wrote:

Mickado wrote: 

You lads are taking this to strange new depths...

Just you lot wanting to try and distract from the fact that it is ridiculous to have Alain Rolland, not only a Leinster ref, but also a former Leinster player, ref a Leinster home game.

No doubt, he won't want to ruin another of BOD's last outings ......

Sure isn't he French?

Mickado wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Mickado wrote: 

You lads are taking this to strange new depths...

Just you lot wanting to try and distract from the fact that it is ridiculous to have Alain Rolland, not only a Leinster ref, but also a former Leinster player, ref a Leinster home game.

No doubt, he won't want to ruin another of BOD's last outings ......

Sure isn't he French?

What has that got to do with it. It wouldn't have stopped him playing for Leinster. Look at JP Doyle (another dudd).

Is Rolland a dud?

GunsGerms wrote:Is Rolland a dud?

Yep, lost it - no doubt due to the death threats and general Welsh pile for sending off Warburton at the world cup. He used be good, but he very poor now.

Should help Munster against the Six Nations Champs to have a ref who won't favour best practices. There should be a good few handy penalties in the game for Munster.

If we're good enough to beat Leinster it shouldn't matter a shoite who the ref is. Poor excuse used by bad coaches who don't want to look at their own failings.

I had a feeling that someone was going to get sent off for Munster however, this is unlikely to happen with Rolland as ref as he is likely to over compensate in favour of Munster because if he were to send off a Munster player there would be the inevitable whinges of bias.

Thomond wrote:If we're good enough to beat Leinster it shouldn't matter a shoite who the ref is. Poor excuse used by bad coaches who don't want to look at their own failings.

The voice of reason....Zzzzzz...

GunsGerms wrote:I had a feeling that someone was going to get sent off for Munster however, this is unlikely to happen with Rolland as ref as he is likely to over compensate in favour of Munster because if he were to send off a Munster player there would be the inevitable whinges of bias.

He had a shocker when reffing Ulster v Munster. A real shocker.

Thats only cause Munster lost.

Thomond wrote:If we're good enough to beat Leinster it shouldn't matter a shoite who the ref is. Poor excuse used by bad coaches who don't want to look at their own failings.

Illogical statement.

You cant expect to get really dodgy favorable ref/TMOs in every game.

Sin é wrote:

Thomond wrote:If we're good enough to beat Leinster it shouldn't matter a shoite who the ref is. Poor excuse used by bad coaches who don't want to look at their own failings.

Illogical statement.

Makes sense to me.

GunsGerms wrote:Thats only cause Munster lost.

He awarded 19 penalties against Ulster!

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Thats only cause Munster lost.

He awarded 19 penalties against Ulster!

What are you complaining about then.

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Thomond wrote:If we're good enough to beat Leinster it shouldn't matter a shoite who the ref is. Poor excuse used by bad coaches who don't want to look at their own failings.

Illogical statement.

Makes sense to me.

That doesn't surprise me   

... fools seldom differ and all that   

Good teams rise above difficult circumstances and win regardless. Refereeing decisions balance themselves out over time. We didn't deserve to beat Treviso and did. Caught out by a bad call against Scarlets. Play the game and control what you control that's how you go about winning the game. Don't get all caught up in that game theory rubbish.

GunsGerms wrote:

Sin é wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Thats only cause Munster lost.

He awarded 19 penalties against Ulster!

What are you complaining about then.

Ulster were sealing off all the time, but no warnings. They just kept doing it.

Keatley had a nightmare with the boot.

Anyway, he had a terrible night.

The best team won on the day so thats all that counts?

Thomond wrote:Good teams rise above difficult circumstances and win regardless. Refereeing decisions balance themselves out over time. We didn't deserve to beat Treviso and did. Caught out by a bad call against Scarlets. Play the game and control what you control that's how you go about winning the game. Don't get all caught up in that game theory rubbish.

That is cliched nonsense. Of course refs can make a mistake and that is ok as far as I'm concered. Inconsistent refereeing and lack of control of a game is inexcusable for a ref of Rolland's standing.

Thomond wrote:Good teams rise above difficult circumstances and win regardless. Refereeing decisions balance themselves out over time. We didn't deserve to beat Treviso and did. Caught out by a bad call against Scarlets. Play the game and control what you control that's how you go about winning the game. Don't get all caught up in that game theory rubbish.

Its like you are quoting these from a book of zen or something...

Should Munster just throw in the towel already?

GunsGerms wrote:Should Munster just throw in the towel already?

Well, we could hope and pray that maybe he wants to make amends for the Ulster debacle   

But then again, he won't want to ruin BOD or his own party     

Is everything a conspiracy against Munster?

Sin é wrote:

Thomond wrote:Good teams rise above difficult circumstances and win regardless. Refereeing decisions balance themselves out over time. We didn't deserve to beat Treviso and did. Caught out by a bad call against Scarlets. Play the game and control what you control that's how you go about winning the game. Don't get all caught up in that game theory rubbish.

That is cliched nonsense. Of course refs can make a mistake and that is ok as far as I'm concered. Inconsistent refereeing and lack of control of a game is inexcusable for a ref of Rolland's standing.

I think the point is if you are 20-30% better than your opponent and clinical with the boot you will still win. I've only ever seen bad refereeing be the main factor in separating two sides at this level when it really is 50/50 in every respect and it's one bad call.

Like, Munster got the benefit of the doubt with both of their tries against Treviso. But if those decisions were reversed I still think they would have won or put themselves in a position where they definitely should have won.

I wouldn't worry about Rolland. This is one of his last ever really high-profile games and he'll be incredibly motivated to put in a good display. Accusations of bias towards him are laughable imo.

Sin é wrote:Earls doesn't need to offload. Schmidt doesn't approve (according to Murray Kinsella). Its too risky. Leinster/Ireland had the fewest offloads in the 6Ns. France had something like double that.

Other news. Rolland is reffing this match now.
Congratulations Leinster, the game is yours.

How Rolland managed to give 19 penalties against Ulster in the last interpro against Munster and not even warn them for constant infringements, I'll never know.

Is that geniune? Rolland is a referee from the Leinster branch of the IRFU, he technically can't referee Leinster ever, and he never has.

Ex Blackrock and Leinster player to referee derby game...allez les bleues as they say...pint of probs there Matt

probs. Thats a good one must try that next time I go to Bellamys. Usually just call it c-burg

[quote="GunsGerms"]probs. Thats a good one must try that next time I go to Bellamys. Usually just call it c-burg[/quote]

Thats cos your a mucksavage from weshtmeath...

Sin é wrote:

Thomond wrote:Good teams rise above difficult circumstances and win regardless. Refereeing decisions balance themselves out over time. We didn't deserve to beat Treviso and did. Caught out by a bad call against Scarlets. Play the game and control what you control that's how you go about winning the game. Don't get all caught up in that game theory rubbish.

That is cliched nonsense. Of course refs can make a mistake and that is ok as far as I'm concered. Inconsistent refereeing and lack of control of a game is inexcusable for a ref of Rolland's standing.

.


Refs make mistakes like everyone. Rolland is not as bad as you are saying. Some of it may be cliched but cliches are true for the most part (one of the officials from a billion dollar sports franchise was someone who spouted this when I got a chance to chat with him at an event). Rob Penney agreed to it, that is fine by me. Refereeing decisions can decide a game but more often then not they are used as an excuse. Just look at Arsene Wenger!

I prefer the term bogger but whatever.

ME-109 wrote:Ex Blackrock and Leinster player to referee derby game...allez les bleues as they say...pint of probs there Matt

He's ex Rock as well....might as well hand BOD the match whistle...   

Thomond wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Thomond wrote:Good teams rise above difficult circumstances and win regardless. Refereeing decisions balance themselves out over time. We didn't deserve to beat Treviso and did. Caught out by a bad call against Scarlets. Play the game and control what you control that's how you go about winning the game. Don't get all caught up in that game theory rubbish.

That is cliched nonsense. Of course refs can make a mistake and that is ok as far as I'm concered. Inconsistent refereeing and lack of control of a game is inexcusable for a ref of Rolland's standing.

.


Refs make mistakes like everyone. Rolland is not as bad as you are saying. Some of it may be cliched but cliches are true for the most part (one of the officials from a billion dollar sports franchise was someone who spouted this when I got a chance to chat with him at an event). Rob Penney agreed to it, that is fine by me. Refereeing decisions can decide a game but more often then not they are used as an excuse.  Just look at Arsene Wenger!

What alternatives were out there to say that Penney ended up having to agree to that. Maybe I should revise my guess on the first person to be yellow carded in the game.

Cliche is an onomatopoeic word describing the sound a steriocopy made when pressed against metal in the printing process.

Both the words steriocopy and cliche come from the same printing process.

Thomond wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Thomond wrote:Good teams rise above difficult circumstances and win regardless. Refereeing decisions balance themselves out over time. We didn't deserve to beat Treviso and did. Caught out by a bad call against Scarlets. Play the game and control what you control that's how you go about winning the game. Don't get all caught up in that game theory rubbish.

That is cliched nonsense. Of course refs can make a mistake and that is ok as far as I'm concered. Inconsistent refereeing and lack of control of a game is inexcusable for a ref of Rolland's standing.

.
Refs make mistakes like everyone. Rolland is not as bad as you are saying. Some of it may be cliched but cliches are true for the most part (one of the officials from a billion dollar sports franchise was someone who spouted this when I got a chance to chat with him at an event). Rob Penney agreed to it, that is fine by me. Refereeing decisions can decide a game but more often then not they are used as an excuse.  Just look at Arsene Wenger!

Like I say, I don't mind refs making mistakes (even Nigel Owens makes mistakes and he is a great ref), but Rolland is not up to it any more. There is a reason he is retiring. If he makes a balls of this could cost either province dearly.

With regard to the other poor reffing decisions (by the way, Earls try was not a forward pass if you check out the IRB's explaination on forward passing here .... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=box08lq9ylg ) but if Munster had won against Scarlets, Connacht would now be closer to be playing Heineken Cup rugby next season.

ME-109 wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Ex Blackrock and Leinster player to referee derby game...allez les bleues as they say...pint of probs there Matt

He's ex Rock as well....might as well hand BOD the match whistle...   

I noticed Rolland racing over to shake BOD hand in BOD's last Ireland game in the Aviva.

Sin é wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Ex Blackrock and Leinster player to referee derby game...allez les bleues as they say...pint of probs there Matt

He's ex Rock as well....might as well hand BOD the match whistle...   

I noticed Rolland racing over to shake BOD hand in BOD's last Ireland game in the Aviva.

I think he was asking him who he would like to see yellow carded from Munster...

ME-109 wrote:

Sin é wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Ex Blackrock and Leinster player to referee derby game...allez les bleues as they say...pint of probs there Matt

He's ex Rock as well....might as well hand BOD the match whistle...   

I noticed Rolland racing over to shake BOD hand in BOD's last Ireland game in the Aviva.

I think he was asking him who he would like to see yellow carded from Munster...

I think he said anyone faster than Daverage (which is about everyone). No need to be showing him up.

Sin é wrote:

ME-109 wrote:

ME-109 wrote:Ex Blackrock and Leinster player to referee derby game...allez les bleues as they say...pint of probs there Matt

He's ex Rock as well....might as well hand BOD the match whistle...   

I noticed Rolland racing over to shake BOD hand in BOD's last Ireland game in the Aviva.

You did?  

Yeah, I once saw Clancy decked out in his Ireland scarf at an Irish game too.   And then, another ref who has publically declared his admiration for Brian O'Driscoll in glowing terms, was the ref who reffed that final game in Lansdowne aganst Italy.  I think he might have been helping out BOD too

Anyway should we just give bod mom award before the game and be done with it

That Ref who publicly declared his admiration for BOD doesn't have to live in Dublin like Roland will be doing. Can you imagine if BOD loses his last club game in the Aviva in his last game ever against Munster? And if he makes as many mistakes as he did when reffing Ulster v Munster, he would probably have to leave the country, let alone Dublin.

Sin é wrote:

Thomond wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Thomond wrote:Good teams rise above difficult circumstances and win regardless. Refereeing decisions balance themselves out over time. We didn't deserve to beat Treviso and did. Caught out by a bad call against Scarlets. Play the game and control what you control that's how you go about winning the game. Don't get all caught up in that game theory rubbish.

That is cliched nonsense. Of course refs can make a mistake and that is ok as far as I'm concered. Inconsistent refereeing and lack of control of a game is inexcusable for a ref of Rolland's standing.

.
Refs make mistakes like everyone. Rolland is not as bad as you are saying. Some of it may be cliched but cliches are true for the most part (one of the officials from a billion dollar sports franchise was someone who spouted this when I got a chance to chat with him at an event). Rob Penney agreed to it, that is fine by me. Refereeing decisions can decide a game but more often then not they are used as an excuse.  Just look at Arsene Wenger!

Like I say, I don't mind refs making mistakes (even Nigel Owens makes mistakes and he is a great ref), but Rolland is not up to it any more. There is a reason he is retiring. If he makes a balls of this could cost either province dearly.

With regard to the other poor reffing decisions (by the way, Earls try was not a forward pass if you check out the IRB's explaination on forward passing here .... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=box08lq9ylg ) but if Munster had won against Scarlets, Connacht would now be closer to be playing Heineken Cup rugby next season.

Bar obviously a couple of refs, it's the laws that are the bigger problem in rugby. That forward pass rule is absolutely stupid and causes more aggravation then it is worth.

Bottom line we'll beat Leinster if we deserve to, Rolland shouldn't and probably won't be a factor unless we start playing dumb rugby.

In that video and every video like it, none of the examples of the balls moving forward due to momentum show an example where the receiver of the pass was in front of the  player throwing the pass. They feature players moving from behind the passer to catch ball that are thrown backwards and move forwards. For me, the spirit of the law suggests if you are in front of the ball carrier when the pass is thrown it should be ruled as a forward pass.

The rule is good as for me if you throw the ball backwards to a player behind you, that is within the spirit of the game even if the ball travels forwards which it will do. Not if the player is in front of the passer though!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=box08lq9ylg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZvuhue5SWI

Notch wrote:In that video and every video like it, none of the examples of the balls moving forward due to momentum show an example where the receiver of the pass was in front of the  player throwing the pass. They feature players moving from behind the passer to catch ball that are thrown backwards and move forwards. For me, the spirit of the law suggests if you are in front of the ball carrier when the pass is thrown it should be ruled as a forward pass.

The rule is good as for me if you throw the ball backwards to a player behind you, that is within the spirit of the game even if the ball travels forwards which it will do. Not if the player is in front of the passer though!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=box08lq9ylg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZvuhue5SWI

The problem with the rule is that there sis some ambiguity around it and that's why refs are having issues, it is too subject to interpretation like a lot of laws in rugby.

Sin é wrote:That Ref who publicly declared his admiration for BOD doesn't have to live in Dublin like Roland will be doing. Can you imagine if BOD loses his last club game in the Aviva in his last game ever against Munster? And if he makes as many mistakes as he did when reffing Ulster v Munster, he would probably have to leave the country, let alone Dublin.

I agree.  He should have police protection out of the State if Leinster and BOD lose this one.  Either that or a safe-house being made available to him in Limerick.  We all know any self-respecting Leinster hard man looking for vengence wouldn't be caught alive in Limerick.  Dead, yes - alive, no

SecretFly wrote:

Sin é wrote:That Ref who publicly declared his admiration for BOD doesn't have to live in Dublin like Roland will be doing. Can you imagine if BOD loses his last club game in the Aviva in his last game ever against Munster? And if he makes as many mistakes as he did when reffing Ulster v Munster, he would probably have to leave the country, let alone Dublin.

I agree.  He should have police protection out of the State if Leinster and BOD lose this one.  Either that or a safe-house being made available to him in Limerick.  We all know any self-respecting Leinster hard man looking for vengence wouldn't be caught alive in Limerick.  Dead, yes - alive, no

Thank God back to the important stuff...otherwise Notch and Thomond will go on for about 100 pages on the forward pass rule and I dont think anyone is ready for that...