Ulster 2013/2014

First topic message reminder :

It had to come eventually.

Squad

HOOKER
Rory Best, Rob Herring, Niall Annett
PROP
Tom Court, Callum Black, Paddy McAllister, Declan Fitzpatrick, John Afoa, Bronson Ross, Adam Macklin, Ricky Lutton
LOCK
Johann Muller (c), Dan Tuohy, Neil McComb, Lewis Stevenson
BACKROW
Iain Henderson, Stephen Ferris, Mike McComish, Sean Doyle, Chris Henry, Robbie Diack, Roger Wilson, Nick Williams
SCRUM-HALF
Ruan Pienaar, Michael Heaney, Paul Marshall
OUTHALF
Paddy Jackson, James McKinney
CENTRES
Stuart Olding, Luke Marshall, Paddy Wallace, Darren Cave, Michael Allen
WING
Tommy Bowe, Andrew Trimble, Craig Gilroy, Chris Cochrane
FULL BACK
Jared Payne, Peter Nelson, David McIlwaine

Confirmed Pre-Season Games
Ulster Rugby vs Leinster Rugby, 23rd August
Leicester Tigers vs Ulster Rugby, 31st August

Heineken Cup Pool 5
Ulster Rugby, Leicester Tigers, Montpellier, Treviso

Ulster Rugby vs Leicester Tigers, 11th October
Montpellier vs Ulster Rugby, 19th October
Ulster Rugby vs Treviso, 7th December
Treviso vs Ulster Rugby, 14th December
Ulster Rugby vs Montpellier, 10th-12th January
Leicester Tigers vs Ulster Rugby, 17th-19th January

RaboDirectPro12

First five games starting on the 6th September;

Newport Gwent Dragons vs Ulster Rugby    
Ulster Rugby vs Glasgow Warriors            
Connacht Rugby vs Ulster Rugby
Ulster Rugby vs Benetton Treviso
Ospreys vs Ulster Rugby

Full fixtures at http://www.ulsterrugby.com/rugby/results_1stxv.php

Apparently it's going to be the same except Cave and Fitzpatrick drop to the bench, Afoa starts at tighthead, Jared Payne moves to 13 and Olding comes in at fullback.

Thats the Newsletters take anyway, and they are usually right the day before the game. We'll find out at Noon I suppose.

That backline  

Fits with what I have heard

Niiiiiiice!!!!!!

Although I would dearly love to see what Olding and Payne could produce together. Two extremely creative and talented players who could be the next Irish centre partnership......although it's more likely to be Marshall and Payne. Who knows, options are a great thing to have though.

They were close, Afoa starts on the bench but Olding does play 15 and Payne move to 13.

Unchanged from 1-10 and Trimble, Bowe and Luke Marshall all retain their spots. Hopefully Paddy Jackson is given the kicking duties and is allowed to stake a claim for Ireland.

Black is in for court notch.

Payne at 13 and Olding at 15 peculiar?

Olding has played fullback for Ireland before (U20). Very underrated player, good awarness around the park. Just watch his positional play when off the ball.

Yea I can read thanks. I'm just curious about the reasoning behind it?

If Payne is to be the future 13 for Ireland (& marshall at 12) then that would leave us not short but looking for another option at 15 for Ulster.  Maybe MA is keeping all options open but also looking to keep a very good player on the pitch (with previous exxperience rather than Gilroy)

More than anything it means Anscombe doesn't trust McIlwaine or Nelson

Or Olding is just too good to leave out

Standulstermen wrote:More than anything it means Anscombe doesn't trust McIlwaine or Nelson

I would not put it like that - Olding is simply a much better player than McIlwaine and Nelson is still in his baby clothes.

Olding is the best player available at 15, given Payne is at 13, so he has been selected

Is nobody happy with how Luke Marshall is playing at 12?

From the comments on here it seems as if he is playing stop gap right now.

Very happy with Marshall at present. His best game coincided with Payne playing 13.

Nelson may well develop late but from watching him last week I don't see improvement in him. I suppose judging him by olding/Marshall/Jackson/Henderson standards may be harsh though

Peter Nelson lost a year last year he will come good - he has far more potential than McIlwaine or Andrews who in my opinion are just stop gaps

At 12/13 we simply have an overflow of talent.
If D'Arcy and BOD retire at the end of the year I think we could honestly claim Ulster have the best 2 12's in Irish rugby and the best 2 13's.

Marshall /Olding - 12
Cave/Payne - 13

Standulstermen wrote:Very happy with Marshall at present. His best game coincided with Payne playing 13.

Yup he's playing well - only gripe is he makes too many handling errors - and I don't like his tackling technique - its a bit like D'arcy's, very textbook school-boyish and always looks like he'll slip off a few somewhere if he gets wrong footed.

What I do like is his brain - see's space very well, picks good lines and has a lovely kicking game. Just needs to improve his conditioning and passing.

Olding just looks to have something special about him - he seems closer to the complete player despite having played so little. Only issue is his size but so far it hasn't been a problem.

I wouldn't mind seeing Olding play alongside Marshall. I think it would work well.

The opinion in the Ulster camp - least from what I have heard - is that Henderson, Jackson and Olding are considered players who are absolutely exceptional

Marshall and Gilroy are considered outstanding players who should be regular internationals.
In any other time they would be the stars of the show.

The talent these guys have brought to the team is mind blowing - when you add Pienaer, Payne and Bowe to the back line this is the best we have even been from 9 to 15

I haven't even mentioned Wallace and Trimble - internationals in their own right or Cave second only to BOD as an IQ 13

Has anyone considered that Olding is maybe being moulded into a 15? We were sure it would be Gilroy predominantly, but who knows. Look at our availability for positions...

Centers :
Marshall, Cave, Payne, Olding, Allen, Wallace (eventually) (heck, even Jackson can play 12)
Wings :
Trimble, Bowe, Gilroy, Allen
Fullback :
Payne... Gilroy/Olding?

I've only listed players who are up to the standard IMO (ie not mcilwaine or Nelson yet).

If Trimble or Bowe get injured, do we pull the plug on Payne at 13?

Would we be allowed to?

I don't think Gilroy as backup to Payne is enough. I'm happy to see Olding at 15, and I've a feeling it could be more than a one off.

Nelson was always designed to be our next 15. He has serious gas but he has never inspired confidence IMO. His work under the high ball and his tackling are issues from what I have seen. Only young yet though. If he can turn into an HEC level 15 at least it helps.

Andrew won't or rather shouldn't have a contract renewed.

I think Nelson will get game time at wing before 15.
I think Gilroy will spend a fair amount at 15 this year.
Allen is our backup if Trimble or Bowe are injured

Geoff - any sense of Farrell? Will he feature much this season?

Some centres we have. Imagine if Spence were still with us...

I forgot about farrell, he should really get some games to see what he's made of. A big Shane Horgan type 12! He's huge!

To be honest until Olding has a decent run I can't see Farrell getting anywhere near the team + Paddy coming back.

Is he seen as a 12, then? Was kind of hoping he might prosper as a 13.

He might but he is behind Cave and Payne in that position so again injuries aside I can't see him getting game time.

In fact 13 is if anything worse as Olding and Marshall could well be in the 6 Nations squad,
Payne won't be and Cave may well not be

I have to say, speaking of exceptional players, Jackson has impressed me a lot so far in this HEC. I have been frustrated with him a lot recently, and his goal kicking is still below the standard it needs to be, but really the rest of his game is top notch (at the very least). His kicking from hand has been truly outstanding, and his composure under pressure is quite remarkable.

He has certainly proven me wrong recently, and I hope he continues to do so! My only criticism apart from his goal kicking, is that he would attack the line more, because I know he has the ability, but I guess that will come with time as he becomes the complete 10. We have seen it more so far this season than before which is great to see.

What has impressed me more than anything is Jackson passing.

In the last few games I have seen 10 or so passes of true world Class - absolutely sensational. They are zipped across very flat, very fast and right on the game line and often of some length - as good as Pienaer.

I am now convinced this guy has the class to go all the way.

We have to remember that a similar age Sexton had played 1 game for Leinster - he is a good 2 years ahead of Sexton in terms of development

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I have to say, speaking of exceptional players, Jackson has impressed me a lot so far in this HEC.  I have been frustrated with him a lot recently, and his goal kicking is still below the standard it needs to be, but really the rest of his game is top notch (at the very least).  His kicking from hand has been truly outstanding, and his composure under pressure is quite remarkable.

He has certainly proven me wrong recently, and I hope he continues to do so!  My only criticism apart from his goal kicking, is that he would attack the line more, because I know he has the ability, but I guess that will come with time as he becomes the complete 10.  We have seen it more so far this season than before which is great to see.

Totally agree, especially so given his poor start to the season - the Connacht game seemed to be a turning point. His last two performance were superb by any standard - the quality and variety of his kicking from hand, place kicking, passing, running, defence .... the total package.

I do believe he looks more comfortable along side Marshall (and Heaney) though - Pienaar is the type of 9 who takes his 10 out of the game a bit.  

Also I'd like to see the club persevere with him as first choice place kicker even when Pienaar is there. It reminds a bit of Sexton struggling with the spectre of ROG with Ireland. It was noticible (to me anyways) that his first place kick went awry when Pienaar came on against the Tigers.

He's definitely found a new level in his game though, he just has to keep it going week in week out.

I think you will see a far more even distribution of responsibility between Pienaer and Jackson this year.

Paddy has stepped up a level and will be less intimidated and Pienaer will know he can trust him know with some of thedecision making

Finally got to see your game v Montpelier last night. well done lads. really spanked a very good team away in France.

Form team in Ireland now and no mistake.

Paddy is proving the doubters (me being amongst their numbers) wrong with aplomb. His game is coming along in leaps and bounds and with him being such a young cub, he is going to be about for a very, very long time thank heavens. The full package he will be I have no doubt and unfortunately for Ulster, a regular in the green shirt too.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:Finally got to see your game v Montpelier last night. well done lads. really spanked a very good team away in France.

Form team in Ireland now and no mistake.

It was a masterclass in game management wasn't it Jen. It's something that Ulster have gotten wrong in the past but now we know how to take a game in a stranglehold and control it whether we have the ball or not. Long may it last.

SUFTCAB!!!!!

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:Finally got to see your game v Montpelier last night. well done lads. really spanked a very good team away in France.

Form team in Ireland now and no mistake.

Cheers Jen.  

Can't wait for tonight.

SUFTUM!
SUFTCAB!

Don Alfonso wrote:Can't wait for tonight.

SUFTUM!
SUFTCAB!

How long do you think it'll take for the crepes and beer part of the song to catch on at Ravers ?

Hang on a minute! I plugged the Crepes van! ...if that catches on I want free Crepes ..(and beer)!

geoff999rugby wrote:Peter Nelson lost a year last year he will come good -  he has far more potential than McIlwaine or Andrews who in my opinion are just stop gaps

At 12/13 we simply have an overflow of talent.
If D'Arcy and BOD retire at the end of the year I think we could honestly claim Ulster have the best 2 12's in Irish rugby and the best 2 13's.

Marshall /Olding - 12
Cave/Payne - 13

Bold statement, Griffin and McSharry are developing as very good players, and Robbie Henshaw has played a lot at centre this year for Connacht and has made the national squad ahead of Olding and Cave. It goes seam strange that the future irish centres are likely to come from Ulster and Connacht (untill leinster poach Connacht [i know McSharry came from the leinster acamady])

rodders wrote:Hang on a minute! I plugged the Crepes van! ...if that catches on I want free Crepes ..(and beer)!  

Ah yes it was you indeed Rodders, the king of the mayo aren't ya


Big Johann Muller and Nick Williams are dining at Armagh Rugby Club tomorrow, extra crepes needed.

I think Farrell should maybe leave for a bit to truly develop. I think between Luke Marshall and Stuart Olding there is just no room at the inn. Even if we shoehorn him into outside centre, we're developing Payne as a 13 for Ireland and Cave is there... he should go abroad for a year or two.

Obviously having a guy like that around who we don't really need atm is good for depth but he would be better served going to get regular gametime.

He should go to Exeter to play with Steenson and Whitten..

Kingshu wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Peter Nelson lost a year last year he will come good -  he has far more potential than McIlwaine or Andrews who in my opinion are just stop gaps

At 12/13 we simply have an overflow of talent.
If D'Arcy and BOD retire at the end of the year I think we could honestly claim Ulster have the best 2 12's in Irish rugby and the best 2 13's.

Marshall /Olding - 12
Cave/Payne - 13

Bold statement, Griffin and McSharry are developing as very good players, and Robbie Henshaw has played a lot at centre this year for Connacht and has made the national squad ahead of Olding and Cave. It goes seam strange that the future irish centres are likely to come from Ulster and Connacht (untill leinster poach Connacht [i know McSharry came from the leinster acamady])

Griffin has apparently been making noises about moving on at the end of this season with Munster very keen. Have to say for the hype he has received I have never been that impressed although he has had injury worries. McSharry was going great until injury. Possibly one dimensional but I thought he was adding to his game. McSharry/Henshaw is a massively physical centre pairing

If Olding looks good at 15, will he be considered there long term?

His best position looks to be 12, but I am keen to see how he does at 15.

So there is no chance of Olding being considered a 13 then?

Some of you may find it interesting to know that Stuart actually played openside flanker primarily at school until he was about 16! Which is probably why his lack of size hasn't been a problem, he is very physical for all the size of him. Got injured quite a lot at 7 though.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:So there is no chance of Olding being considered a 13 then?

Honestly I would like to see him get a shot there also, but the danger of all of this is that he will end up becoming a constant utility option on the bench, and never really get a chance to nail down one position.

Then again, players like that seem to be extremely effective in the likes of NZ (look at Ben Smith currently) or Australia.

So long as he's only being considered at 12 or 13 I don't think that will happen to Olding. He's not a 15 imo.

Whats happening with Rory Scholes. I'm surprised he hasn't been given any gametime. I thought he was one of our best players at the JWC.

Kingshu wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Peter Nelson lost a year last year he will come good -  he has far more potential than McIlwaine or Andrews who in my opinion are just stop gaps

At 12/13 we simply have an overflow of talent.
If D'Arcy and BOD retire at the end of the year I think we could honestly claim Ulster have the best 2 12's in Irish rugby and the best 2 13's.

Marshall /Olding - 12
Cave/Payne - 13

Bold statement, Griffin and McSharry are developing as very good players, and Robbie Henshaw has played a lot at centre this year for Connacht and has made the national squad ahead of Olding and Cave. It goes seam strange that the future irish centres are likely to come from Ulster and Connacht (untill leinster poach Connacht [i know McSharry came from the leinster acamady])

It is a bold statement but I'll stick by it.
Griffin I think is ther weakest of the 7 players, McSharry is behind Marshall and Olding will be better than both of them.
Henshaw is behind Payne and Cave although he may well be a better player in the future.

Olding and Payne are imo a different level from the other players and if I was a betting man I say they will be the new Ireland partnership with Marshall on the bench because he provides better cover than Henshaw.

geoff998rugby wrote:
Henshaw is behind Payne and Cave

Better tell Joe Schmidt so he can change his squad for the AIs.

Well Payne is NIQ - the only reason he is not selected

And no one is going to convince me that Cave is not the 2nd best IQ 13 behind BOD and has been for the last 3 years or so.