Ulster 2013/2014

First topic message reminder :

It had to come eventually.

Squad

HOOKER
Rory Best, Rob Herring, Niall Annett
PROP
Tom Court, Callum Black, Paddy McAllister, Declan Fitzpatrick, John Afoa, Bronson Ross, Adam Macklin, Ricky Lutton
LOCK
Johann Muller (c), Dan Tuohy, Neil McComb, Lewis Stevenson
BACKROW
Iain Henderson, Stephen Ferris, Mike McComish, Sean Doyle, Chris Henry, Robbie Diack, Roger Wilson, Nick Williams
SCRUM-HALF
Ruan Pienaar, Michael Heaney, Paul Marshall
OUTHALF
Paddy Jackson, James McKinney
CENTRES
Stuart Olding, Luke Marshall, Paddy Wallace, Darren Cave, Michael Allen
WING
Tommy Bowe, Andrew Trimble, Craig Gilroy, Chris Cochrane
FULL BACK
Jared Payne, Peter Nelson, David McIlwaine

Confirmed Pre-Season Games
Ulster Rugby vs Leinster Rugby, 23rd August
Leicester Tigers vs Ulster Rugby, 31st August

Heineken Cup Pool 5
Ulster Rugby, Leicester Tigers, Montpellier, Treviso

Ulster Rugby vs Leicester Tigers, 11th October
Montpellier vs Ulster Rugby, 19th October
Ulster Rugby vs Treviso, 7th December
Treviso vs Ulster Rugby, 14th December
Ulster Rugby vs Montpellier, 10th-12th January
Leicester Tigers vs Ulster Rugby, 17th-19th January

RaboDirectPro12

First five games starting on the 6th September;

Newport Gwent Dragons vs Ulster Rugby    
Ulster Rugby vs Glasgow Warriors            
Connacht Rugby vs Ulster Rugby
Ulster Rugby vs Benetton Treviso
Ospreys vs Ulster Rugby

Full fixtures at http://www.ulsterrugby.com/rugby/results_1stxv.php

There doesn't seem to be much faith in Bronson Ross.

Squad filler probably just. It's a decent team but the ospreys have 5 lions in their pack and should be favourites. Would have preferred to see Afoa in the squad. It's not great to have possibly our two highest profile players see no gametime with the team prior to the Heineken cup

Looks like the heino team is starting to take shape. Its early days but the signs are that Anscombe sees his strongest team as:

15 Gilroy
14 Trimble
13 Payne
12 Marshall
11 Bowe
10 Jackson
9 Pienaar
8 Williams
7 Henry
6 Diack
5 Touhy
4 Muller
3 Afoa
2 Best
1 Court

Bench: Lutton/Fitzpatrick, Herring, Black, Henderson, Wilson, Marshall, Olding, Cave/Allen

Main question marks would be around Touhy/Hendo, Wilson/Diack to start I think.

George Carlin wrote:Game of the weekend. Really looking forward to it.  

Ah hear George! That's a bit strong. Game of the weekend is in Thomond park.  

We will have to wait and see if this one can beat it as a spectacle. Who knows. Hope they are both crackers. Good ad for the Rabo.

Up for Ulster (Of course) but I may regret it if they get a head of steam up.

Hope Simon Easterby and the lads can claw back a bit of Glasgow's lead too.

Don Alfonso wrote:Is there no match thread?

theshanker wrote:Not that I have seen , no idea how to start one so I posted the team on this thread.

There is a button under the words "Club Rugby" at the top of that page, called "New Topic".

Instructions...... Click on it......... That's it.

You now know how to create a new thread.  

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Game of the weekend. Really looking forward to it.  

Ah hear George! That's a bit strong. Game of the weekend is in Thomond park.  

Hope Simon Easterby and the lads can claw back a bit of Glasgow's lead too.

 
Game of the week will be at Cardiff where we get to watch just how many individual incidences there are of Clownshoes Clancy making a completely incorrect decision. There's a George Clancy Drinking Game. Drink every time George (a) makes a completely inexplicable decision, (b) shows contempt to a Scottish team captain and (c) ruins the game as a spectacle.
 
Last time we played it, we were all completely battered by the half hour mark.

Cheers Jen:) 

Notch wrote:Did anyone actually hear anything reliable about the mood being bad, because I think there is a degree in which maybe minor concerns or grievances can be amplified in the re-telling.

Chinese whispers are seldom good indicators of the truth. If you look a Anscombes comments on Paddy Jackson it doesn't come across as simple as stick only rant based coaching. MA takes no shiz but he doesn't strike me as that bad a man manager.

On the guys departing, or probably; Afoa set to play soon, this weekend, but I'm heartened by what I've seen of our scrum recently. His heart isn't in it at Ulster I feel, his heart is with his wife and kids in NZ and I question if we'll see the best of him this year. It's very important we develop alternatives as we have been. Muller is still worth his place in the lineout but looks like he's coming to the end of his career, the improvement in the other locks lineout skills in the time he has been here has been immense and that offsets his importance- even though he is the brains of our lineout calls and almost and assistant coach in his own right. He's still a great presence to have in the team, but Henderson and Tuohy looks like a very promising combination, even having nicked a good few on the opposition throw as well as the obvious carrying and work rate they bring.

I can see us replacing both, but with guys who wouldn't necessarily be first choice- not the same marquee names but we lack depth at lock and tighthead if we don't sign anybody.

But if Pienaar leaves we need another goal kicking 9 and those don't grow on trees. Afoa and Muller should be allowed to move on but we should be doing whatever we can to keep Ruan.

Yes, I did, and this is not simply Chinese whispers either Notch. I can't speak for the entire camp but I do know a couple of players did not seem all that impressed at times.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Notch wrote:Did anyone actually hear anything reliable about the mood being bad, because I think there is a degree in which maybe minor concerns or grievances can be amplified in the re-telling.

Chinese whispers are seldom good indicators of the truth. If you look a Anscombes comments on Paddy Jackson it doesn't come across as simple as stick only rant based coaching. MA takes no shiz but he doesn't strike me as that bad a man manager.

On the guys departing, or probably; Afoa set to play soon, this weekend, but I'm heartened by what I've seen of our scrum recently. His heart isn't in it at Ulster I feel, his heart is with his wife and kids in NZ and I question if we'll see the best of him this year. It's very important we develop alternatives as we have been. Muller is still worth his place in the lineout but looks like he's coming to the end of his career, the improvement in the other locks lineout skills in the time he has been here has been immense and that offsets his importance- even though he is the brains of our lineout calls and almost and assistant coach in his own right. He's still a great presence to have in the team, but Henderson and Tuohy looks like a very promising combination, even having nicked a good few on the opposition throw as well as the obvious carrying and work rate they bring.

I can see us replacing both, but with guys who wouldn't necessarily be first choice- not the same marquee names but we lack depth at lock and tighthead if we don't sign anybody.

But if Pienaar leaves we need another goal kicking 9 and those don't grow on trees. Afoa and Muller should be allowed to move on but we should be doing whatever we can to keep Ruan.

Yes, I did, and this is not simply Chinese whispers either Notch.  I can't speak for the entire camp but I do know a couple of players did not seem all that impressed at times.

Which ones? Name names mun.

I heard the same as Rory, but in connection with some players feeling they had been criticised too vocally in public. So not so sure Don that they're all as mentally tough as you think.

Casartelli wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Notch wrote:Did anyone actually hear anything reliable about the mood being bad, because I think there is a degree in which maybe minor concerns or grievances can be amplified in the re-telling.

Chinese whispers are seldom good indicators of the truth. If you look a Anscombes comments on Paddy Jackson it doesn't come across as simple as stick only rant based coaching. MA takes no shiz but he doesn't strike me as that bad a man manager.

On the guys departing, or probably; Afoa set to play soon, this weekend, but I'm heartened by what I've seen of our scrum recently. His heart isn't in it at Ulster I feel, his heart is with his wife and kids in NZ and I question if we'll see the best of him this year. It's very important we develop alternatives as we have been. Muller is still worth his place in the lineout but looks like he's coming to the end of his career, the improvement in the other locks lineout skills in the time he has been here has been immense and that offsets his importance- even though he is the brains of our lineout calls and almost and assistant coach in his own right. He's still a great presence to have in the team, but Henderson and Tuohy looks like a very promising combination, even having nicked a good few on the opposition throw as well as the obvious carrying and work rate they bring.

I can see us replacing both, but with guys who wouldn't necessarily be first choice- not the same marquee names but we lack depth at lock and tighthead if we don't sign anybody.

But if Pienaar leaves we need another goal kicking 9 and those don't grow on trees. Afoa and Muller should be allowed to move on but we should be doing whatever we can to keep Ruan.

Yes, I did, and this is not simply Chinese whispers either Notch.  I can't speak for the entire camp but I do know a couple of players did not seem all that impressed at times.

Which ones?  Name names mun.

Nope!

The only thing that I heard on here was that Diack took the Bollicking after dragons to heart. Other than that I can't recall Anscombe saying anything publicly other than a couple of guys need to buck their ideas up.

Sounds good to me. As I said he criticised Hendersons discipline last season and when interviewed about Jackson during the 6N he admitted that no player was the finished article at 21. If players are looking for a soft coach I don't think he is the man. I however think his approach is spot on

So. I believe we were discussing Ulster's mental toughness...

<assumes look of unbearable smugness, puffs contentedly on pipe>

Don,

Do you mean they are tough enough to withstand even Fiztgibbons whistle?

 

Just checked into the Uafc there. There is an article posted by what seems to be an unofficial blog saying Pienaar wont be joining them. Few rumours now spreading that ulster may have an announcement this week.

Anyone on here in the know?

It said he won't be joining Toulon?

Just realised I didn't mention Toulon  

Yeah it claimed he won't be joining them next season

Pienaar signing an extension maybe?

Thought the Toulon thing may have fallen through when Halfpenny was linked with them.... fingers crossed....

Pic of Ferris on his twitter feed, boot of and apparently back training!!  

Some updates.

Firstly good to return not sure how frequent I will post but I did think I would makes some comments on what I have read here (being lurking for a while now).

In no particulat order this is what I understand

Pienear is NOT going to Toulon.
He has an offer on the table which will be approved by Dublin
Ball is in his court.

This obviously does not come without some concessions by Ulster
Afoa will not be replaced
Muller will almost certaintly retire
At most Ulster will have 4 NIQ players next year (it would not surprise me if it is 3)

2nd row/flanker/15 - the position under consideration (to add to Pienaer (hopefully) and Williams)

Ireland want to see Henderson in the 2nd row and Payne at 13.
The players themselves are happy with this.
Payne is favourite as BOD's replacement as no one else is considered quite up to the required mark.
Henderson is seen as the cover for POC and Ryan and Ulster will need a Lock when Muller retires.

In a lot of Pro12 matches I think you will see them in those positions
However, for this year at least, I think Henderson will be 6 and Payne 15 for the big Heineken Cup matches

The McAlister to TH idea is dormant. The improvement in Lutton and the fact Fitzpatrick is considered fitter this year than last means it is no longer considered a priority. It will be dead in the water if Ross or Macklin convince that they are good enough - jury is out on both.

I think McComb, McCormish, Andrew and Cochrane will not get a contract renewal.
(Not sure which are up in 2014 and which are up in 2015)
Not up to the mark required is the view.

On the internal dissent thing there are two seperate incidences to mention:
Diack was annoyed at being lumped in with everyone else after the Dragons game (he was MOTM). Storm - tea cup come to mind. Air cleared nothing to see. Diack really likes to play under Anscombe and gets on well with him (unlike McLaughlin - they really didn't get on at all)
Afoa - I think this is more serious. A perception that he can decide what he does and when he turns up. Rumours of resentment in the squad thats needs nipping in the bud now.

Overall though this is a very very together squad and I would not worry.

Ferris - touch and go. In truth last chance saloon. The next 2 months will decide if he has a future at Ulster or not.
Cross those fingers

Anscombe is under a lot of pressure - his renewal is a long way from being certain.
I think Johnny Bell is seen as a future Ulster coach.

That will do for now.

Good man Geoff! 

Good stuff. I suppose Anscombe has to be judged on silverware. At this point I would maybe offer him a one year renewal but I dont really know at what point of the season you worry about not having a coach signed so I assume we have time.

Jonny Bell is defence coach yes? Seems to be doing a decent job. Afoa is the only worry but if it is the case that he isnt 100% then we should come to some arrangement to release him. No point in throwing good money away.

Oh , and this week Toulon have allegedly signed Kockott on a 3 year deal

We should have released Afoa in the summer. Even towards the back end of last season he wasn't the same player. He looked like a guy who didn't want to be here, the idea that he could honour his contract by flying back and forth to NZ between games was a bit fanciful I think.

He needs to be here full time or not at all.

Toulon now linked with Kockott;

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_8961789,00.html

Ulster should be tracking this fellow - can place kick as well. French player of the Week with L'Equipe.

http://www.thescore.ie/james-hart-grenoble-sexton-racing-metro-1117060-Oct2013/

Hart sounds like a good place kicker, but will Ulster need (or be allowed to use) that proclivity? The IRFU are no doubt nudging Ulster to get PJ to take all the place kicks so having a 9 whose primary strength is from the tee may not be part of the future script. Both Heaney and Porter are fairly accomplished goal kickers but haven't had a sniff of the posts in their outings for Ulster.

What's confusing me - if this guy's so good why did Leinster keep Cooney?

I'd be a big believer in having at least two place kickers on the pitch, even if one isn't used (obviously). Having a place kicking 9 would be a big, big plus for me.

Marshall, Olding and Porter can all kick

If , as hopefully is the case, we retain Pienaer we will be making no additions to our scrum half set up next year.

Remember we currently have 3 full professionals, 1 on a temporary contract and 1 Academy player

Is it Heaney or Porter on the temporary contract?

Who is the Academy player?

Good to see you back by the way.

MrsP -

Full-time:
Pienaar, Marshall and Heaney.

Temporary:
Porter

Academy:
Dave Shanahan (came from Munster)

Thanks Don!

 

Have to say, Heaney is looking the better player of those 2 just now. Yet I thought Porter was going to come through. Early days I suppose.

I really like Heaney. He had a poor game against Dragons, I think it was, but he showed enough talent in his apperances last season to make me pretty hopeful about him.

Hopefully he'll be learning at the feet of the master for the next couple of years...

Don Alfonso wrote:I really like Heaney. He had a poor game against Dragons, I think it was, but he showed enough talent in his apperances last season to make me pretty hopeful about him.

Hopefully he'll be learning at the feet of the master for the next couple of years...

High praise for Marshall indeed. Good man Don.

Ha! I'm all about the Small Parcel.

As it were.

Don Alfonso wrote:
Dave Shanahan (came from Munster)

Cough cough. http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/domestic/trophy/9953.php#.UlP101MguCY

Yer I thought is was Leinster

Well, whatever - all those Southern provinces trading on past glories are all the same to me.

Don Alfonso wrote:Well, whatever - all those Southern provinces trading on past glories are all the same to me.

Glories like...... 5 months ago in the RDS?  

Have a scroll down that link and see how many Ulster and Munster players are in the u20 squad.....

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:Well, whatever - all those Southern provinces trading on past glories are all the same to me.

Glories like...... 5 months ago in the RDS?  

Have a scroll down that link and see how many Ulster and Munster players are in the u20 squad.....

That means nothing ... Conor Murray was behind some Leinster player in the U20s that we haven't heard of since  

Sin é wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:Well, whatever - all those Southern provinces trading on past glories are all the same to me.

Glories like...... 5 months ago in the RDS?  

Have a scroll down that link and see how many Ulster and Munster players are in the u20 squad.....

That means nothing ... Conor Murray was behind some Leinster player in the U20s that we haven't heard of since  

So one player proves........ What exactly?

having half the u20s squad is no guarantee of anything. But it sure shows you where there is a lot of potential.

Statistically (o Jaysus. I didn't just use that word with Sin) you would expect a more jam packed academy and a bigger choice of players.

However. Please let's not spoil an Ulster thread with a mickey measuring contest over what was just a bit of flippant banter between myself and the Don.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:Well, whatever - all those Southern provinces trading on past glories are all the same to me.

Glories like...... 5 months ago in the RDS?  

Have a scroll down that link and see how many Ulster and Munster players are in the u20 squad.....

That means nothing ... Conor Murray was behind some Leinster player in the U20s that we haven't heard of since  

So one player proves........ What exactly?

having half the u20s squad is no guarantee of anything. But it sure shows you where there is a lot of potential.

Statistically (o Jaysus. I didn't just use that word with Sin) you would expect a more jam packed academy and a bigger choice of players.

However. Please let's not spoil an Ulster thread with a mickey measuring contest over what was just a bit of flippant  banter between myself and the Don.

Not just one player - making the U20s means nothing. David Kilcoyne & Mike Sherry are two players who didn't make it as U20s and are having pretty decent careers despite that fact. Bear in mind that of the U19 world cup winners, only 3 made it as professionals and guys like Paul O'Connell (similar age), were not involved.

Totally agree Sin. In fact I'd be of the mind of scrapping U-20's altogether. Post 18 players should be earning their crust in the Rabo league or AIL like real men.

Down with age grade rugby.

Rodders might not be serious but he may have a point. (Had to happen some day!)

How many players do we need our academies to produce each year on average to keep our 1st team going?

3-4???

Is the money well spent on the age grade representative teams?

I think a lot of it depends on how competitive your AIL teams are. Most of those Munster players who didn't make the age grade teams were all playing AIL Div 1 which toughened them up a bit.

Exactly looking at the Ulster Academy we have 12 players

Of those 2 are certainties in my book - Scholes and McCall
Of the others 4 I have very high hopes - the other 6 have work to do.

If, say 5, make it to the squad thats a decent return

But I'm not really talking about the academy. I meant was it good value for money to run so many underage representative sides?

We have U16, U18, U19, U20? Some School related and some club related.

Just wondering if that is sensible/necessary/useful?

Not saying it isn't, just asking the question.

Pienaar stays. Boom. I called it. You guys were all panicking but I believed.

Told you he wasn't going to Toulon   

Being reported by someone I trust that Paul Marshall will be signing a 3 year contract also - well that Scrum Half sorted  

Yeah I saw that from a guy on Uafc who usually gets it right as well. I suppose young Paul isn't a bad backup at all. Gives us three years to get one of porter, heaney or shanahan (i think) up to scratch