Ulster 2013/2014

First topic message reminder :

It had to come eventually.

Squad

HOOKER
Rory Best, Rob Herring, Niall Annett
PROP
Tom Court, Callum Black, Paddy McAllister, Declan Fitzpatrick, John Afoa, Bronson Ross, Adam Macklin, Ricky Lutton
LOCK
Johann Muller (c), Dan Tuohy, Neil McComb, Lewis Stevenson
BACKROW
Iain Henderson, Stephen Ferris, Mike McComish, Sean Doyle, Chris Henry, Robbie Diack, Roger Wilson, Nick Williams
SCRUM-HALF
Ruan Pienaar, Michael Heaney, Paul Marshall
OUTHALF
Paddy Jackson, James McKinney
CENTRES
Stuart Olding, Luke Marshall, Paddy Wallace, Darren Cave, Michael Allen
WING
Tommy Bowe, Andrew Trimble, Craig Gilroy, Chris Cochrane
FULL BACK
Jared Payne, Peter Nelson, David McIlwaine

Confirmed Pre-Season Games
Ulster Rugby vs Leinster Rugby, 23rd August
Leicester Tigers vs Ulster Rugby, 31st August

Heineken Cup Pool 5
Ulster Rugby, Leicester Tigers, Montpellier, Treviso

Ulster Rugby vs Leicester Tigers, 11th October
Montpellier vs Ulster Rugby, 19th October
Ulster Rugby vs Treviso, 7th December
Treviso vs Ulster Rugby, 14th December
Ulster Rugby vs Montpellier, 10th-12th January
Leicester Tigers vs Ulster Rugby, 17th-19th January

RaboDirectPro12

First five games starting on the 6th September;

Newport Gwent Dragons vs Ulster Rugby    
Ulster Rugby vs Glasgow Warriors            
Connacht Rugby vs Ulster Rugby
Ulster Rugby vs Benetton Treviso
Ospreys vs Ulster Rugby

Full fixtures at http://www.ulsterrugby.com/rugby/results_1stxv.php

I remember that. Absolute tragedy. Further illustration of how much more aware rugby needs to get about head injuries. Reading that, you can see it was a preventable death.

Artful_Dodger wrote:For anyone thats been following this horrible story....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-23943642

Christ almighty - that is one of the worst things I've ever read.

This is a real tragedy - and ironically MrsP's been banging on about it for months as her cause celebre.

Ben Robinson is the reason I have been banging on about head injuries in rugby.

The day of his funeral they lined up the 2 teams before my wee fella's match and held a minutes silence.

I never want my lad or anyone else's lad to ever have to do that again in these circumstances. That day I was the only person there who had even heard of SIS let alone knew how serious it is. That was also the day that I told some of the other parents that, if I saw a young player at any of our matches get a head injury during a game I would stand on the pitch and refuse to leave until that player was removed.

Education is what is needed on this and the more I bang on about it the better the chances that someone else will get the message and pass it on.

MrsP wrote:Ben Robinson is the reason I have been banging on about head injuries in rugby.

The day of his funeral they lined up the 2 teams before my wee fella's match and held a minutes silence.

I never want my lad or anyone else's lad to ever have to do that again in these circumstances. That day I was the only person there who had even heard of SIS let alone knew how serious it is. That was also the day that I told some of the other parents that, if I saw a young player at any of our matches get a head injury during a game I would stand on the pitch and refuse to leave until that player was removed.

Education is what is needed on this and the more I bang on about it the better the chances that someone else will get the message and pass it on.

 

Well done MrsP. Keep fighting the good fight.

Does anyone know whats up with Nick Williams? Missed the Leicester game and is due to miss this one too- I heard he was back in NZ, a personal matter?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/23950341?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

So very much not the start we wanted. It's a testament to how poor we were our scoring was finished after 18 minutes. Paddy Jackson will be under pressure to up his place kicking percentage, and the whole pack needs to pull their finger out with regards to the breakdown. Amount of times our ball carrier got isolated, amount of times we were second to the breakdown... ponderous attacking as well, mainly due to the lack of platform. No phase play at all was the killer. And when we did have good ball, we were very slow and predictable with it.

Pretty negative start, but a massive game now at Ravenhill for Glasgow. I'm not sure if we can make that many personnel changes- it's not like Henderson and Williams will improve our breakdown work, and the starting front row were all much better than the replacements. Maybe Sean Doyle could benefit. Paddy Jackson needs to work on his kicking in games, I'm pretty adamant that that's the only way he's going to improve, but its very important to have a back-up on the pitch if he has another game as poor as last night because it does kill our momentum. Candidates include Ian Porter, David McIlwaine and Stuart Olding. I think Farrell will be the guy to miss out in the backs. Olding and Cave back and we just need that experience of Cave in the centres. Probably Olding and Henderson will start on the bench.

Yeah Ulster looked sluggish. It might take them a few weeks to dust off the cobwebs. Last season they hit the ground running.


It might be better to start slow and try to peak later on in the season. The danger with that is being undercooked in the early rounds of the HEC. Thats a disadvantage Irish/Rabo teams have (which never gets mentioned).


Jackson missed a few kicks and is being criticised. Keatley missed a few for Munster but won the MOTM. Kickers might need some time to get in the groove.

I didn't manage to catch the game but this was certainly the shock of the first round. Sounds like Ulster just never got started, although I see that Anscombe had a (gentle) pop at the referee. Any substance to that?

George Carlin wrote:I didn't manage to catch the game but this was certainly the shock of the first round. Sounds like Ulster just never got started, although I see that Anscombe had a (gentle) pop at the referee. Any substance to that?

More that Ulster never got started. The referee was everything you'd expect of a referee who is very inexperienced at this level. When you have an inexperienced ref (3rd professional game) he will get things wrong and there will be room for him to improve. Having seen Anscombes post-match interviews he made only a passing reference to that whilst focusing more on what Ulster didn't do, so maybe some remarks taken out of context?

Had we been quicker to the breakdown and supported the ball carrier better we would have had a lot less penalties given against us. On the other hand, the interpretation of the scrum was a bit harsh on us in the second half and his rhythm doing the sequence was..... beyond.... glacial.... with.... big.... gaps.... wasting.... so.... much.... time....

I think if you see any Ulster fan putting the defeat down to the referee you'd have to think- the ref wasn't perfect, but the reasons we lost were things we control. Not accurate enough place kicking, not smart in possession, not enough support for the ball carrier, not quick enough to the breakdown and generally lacking in intensity from to 15. Just didn't play well enough to deserve the win. The reaction to this game next week should be very tasty because they will be dragged over hot coals this week for an abysmal showing.

Definitely cant put the result at the referees door but I think saying he had an interpretation at scrum time is being kind. His reffing of this area was farcical. Sadly its the only area we were well on top him and the frustrating thing is that was negated.

Anscombes interview basically was a warning shot to certain players and I hope to see changes.

Trimble looked sharp and Diack did ok but that was the extent of it for me and with the breakdown being such an issue I would be tempted to look at Doyle and Henry in there. I think I would go for

Court, Herring, Lutton, Muller, Henderson, Diack , Henry, Williams (if back), Porter, Jackson, Gilroy (if back), Marshall, Cave, Trimble, Payne

Black, Annett, fitz/Afoa?, Tuohy, Doyle, Marshall, Olding, Allen

Notch wrote:

George Carlin wrote:I didn't manage to catch the game but this was certainly the shock of the first round. Sounds like Ulster just never got started, although I see that Anscombe had a (gentle) pop at the referee. Any substance to that?

More that Ulster never got started. The referee was everything you'd expect of a referee who is very inexperienced at this level. When you have an inexperienced ref (3rd professional game) he will get things wrong and there will be room for him to improve. Having seen Anscombes post-match interviews he made only a passing reference to that whilst focusing more on what Ulster didn't do, so maybe some remarks taken out of context?

Had we been quicker to the breakdown and supported the ball carrier better we would have had a lot less penalties given against us. On the other hand, the interpretation of the scrum was a bit harsh on us in the second half and his rhythm doing the sequence was..... beyond.... glacial.... with.... big.... gaps.... wasting.... so.... much.... time....

I think if you see any Ulster fan putting the defeat down to the referee you'd have to think- the ref wasn't perfect, but the reasons we lost were things we control. Not accurate enough place kicking, not smart in possession, not enough support for the ball carrier, not quick enough to the breakdown and generally lacking in intensity from  to 15. Just didn't play well enough to deserve the win. The reaction to this game next week should be very tasty because they will be dragged over hot coals this week for an abysmal showing.

Interesting - lots of pressure on Paddy Jackson in that case. Sounds like usual new season rustiness though, no? I agree that MA will probably tear them a new one and the team will be revitalised by playing at home.
 
Yes, our boys visit your boys next Friday, Notch. Not sure what to tell you about what will be coming to Ravenhill. Glasgow really did not play well against the Blues, but I guess if you do that and get the win, one should just shut one's yapper and take the result and the 4 points - particularly as the rain made handling impossible.
 
An awful lot of personnel were missing (some of our first team were playing for their Scottish club sides) so I can only imagine that next week we'll see some or all of Hogg, Maitland, DTH, Grant, Hall, Strauss and Ryder. Fortunately for Ulster, Matawalu and Cusack are likely to still be injured. One thing to be aware of if you didn't track the Blues match - our captain Al Kellock went off injured quite early on and young Jonny 'brother of Richie' Gray stepped in and was fabulous. 6'6" and 19 stones is quite a thing for a teenager.

They only give 3 points for a win in Scotland? Miserable bastids!

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:They only give 3 points for a win in Scotland? Miserable bastids!

Aye, well, they're expensive....

Well that was unexpected!

Just bumped into half the squad making a video. Dodging rugby balls (and basketballs...go figure) while shopping was exciting if not a tad risky!

I tell you, that Chris Farrell will be a big lad when he grows up!!!

 

The IRFU would want to get their finger out with regards to a new deal for Pienaar;

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/toulon-come-calling-for-ruan-pienaar-1.1531815

Ulster want him to stay, and Pienaar definitely wants to stay on. But the longer the situation goes on without IRFU approval for a new contract the more chance there is he'll have to look at other options.

He'll be over 30 and may only be offered a 1 year anyway. Like Heines for us. You may well lose him even if the IRFU get the finger out.

If he is offered it now he is 29 so they can get round that easily enough. Given ulster will be losing muller and Afoa they may just get dispensation. Agree the situation needs sorted ASAP though

Remembering that I am dafter than a box of hair, can someone tell me why it would be a problem to offer him a new contract?

IRFU regs.

Leinster lost Hines to Clermont because he could only be offered a 1 year as he was over 30.

He really wanted to stay and Leinster really wanted to keep him.

Now he was a fair bit older than Pienaar, but not so much considering his position

Clermont offered 2 years and I think the fecker is still playing on for another season or 2.

Flip side is BJ down in Munster.

Standulstermen wrote:Flip side is BJ down in Munster.

special dispensation. They had to throw Wian under the bus too.

Not saying that you won't get one also as you will be losing a minimum of Muller & Afoa.

The Irfu could decide against though also.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:He'll be over 30 and may only be offered a 1 year anyway. Like Heines for us. You may well lose him even if the IRFU get the finger out.

He's 29 not 30. The IRFU would not be being sensible if they didn't make a big play to retain him- same as with any other current internationals. Right now, everything regarding European rugby is up in the air and if our best players- Irish and NIQ- are leaving for France or England it weakens our negotiating position considerably. If there's an exodus now, as far as the blydi French and English will be concerned the best Irish players will be in their leagues soon enough as well as any top NIQ players we might have hoped to sign so we're superfluous to any new order.

We need to keep marquee players in Ireland if we want to secure the best deal possible for our provinces in any new tournament. We need to show that not only will we be remaining competitive in Europe, we'll also be able to offer the big-name players that add prestige to the tournament and attract casual fans. We simply can't afford to have marquee names crossing the Irish Sea this summer. The next round of contract negotiations are crucial.

Point 1. You are mistaking the words "He'll be" for "he is"

Point 2. Why would the Irfu give a rat's ass what niq players go to France?

In general, there is a problem with the IRFU not reacting quickly enough when in the market for contract renewals.

I would be willing to bet that in terms of players who are being targeted by foreign sides this summer (Ruan Pienaar, Jamie Heaslip, Sean O'Brien etc.) they'll have offers from their suitors long before the IRFU have even opened talks.

I agree. but the irfu will want to keep the other 2 if possible.

If any of the 3 want to go, there is fock all the Irfu can do about it in financial terms.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:Point 1. You are mistaking the words "He'll be" for "he is"

Point 2. Why would the Irfu give a rat's ass what niq players go to France?

Are you kidding? I've just now explained that.

1) Whether there is a settlement within the ERC or, as is looking increasingly likely, without the ERC the IRFU is going to have to re-negotiate on The share of TV deals for the provinces in Europe.
2) We're already likely to be shafted, the more marquee players we have leaving the weaker we look and the less we are perceived as adding to this new European competition.

Ruan Pienaar is a big name in rugby who attracts sponsorship, who is useful for marketing, who adds prestige to any tournament he's involved in. It doesn't (it shouldn't) matter to the IRFU thats he's NIQ, because he's a good bargaining chip. They can point to him and say the provinces add immensely to any pan-European tournament because they have world-class players like him.

The less bargaining chips we let go over to the other side of the table over summer the better it is for us. This counts for current internationals like Heaslip and O'Brien too. We've already blundered by losing Sexton.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:If any of the 3 want to go, there is fock all the Irfu can do about it in financial terms.

True. Problem is Pienaar and his family definitely want to stay and the Ulster Branch want to keep him. The only impediment to an offer being made is the IRFU- the longer the delay and the closer to the end of his deal he comes, the more chance of him deciding the uncertainty over his future is a problem and considering other options.

It's an accident waiting to happen. They need to wake up and smell the coffee here- not just with Pienaar but with all our expiring contracts.

I don't see anything in what you have said that would make Pienaar of interest to the Irfu.

Ulster sure. but not them.

The things that would keep Heaslip and O'Brien in Ireland would not be financial.

Heaslip in particular has expressed an interest in going abroad.

The Irfu may well think that they will be made stro ger by the likes of Jordi Murphy having to step up. Never mind the shekels they would save.

Notch wrote:We need to keep marquee players in Ireland if we want to secure the best deal possible for our provinces in any new tournament. We need to show that not only will we be remaining competitive in Europe, we'll also be able to offer the big-name players that add prestige to the tournament and attract casual fans. We simply can't afford to have marquee names crossing the Irish Sea this summer. The next round of contract negotiations are crucial.

Missed that sentence, Jen?

You might not agree, but why is it wrong?

Didn't miss it. Didn't say it was wrong.

Don't think it would interest the irfu though.

They don't care about the provinces' fate in Europe? Interesting.

Giving Ulster extra money for NIQs a few years ago and allowing Munster to keep Botha woudl suggest otherwise.

Didn't say that either. what is this national misquote Ladyboys day?

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:I don't see anything in what you have said that would make Pienaar of interest to the Irfu.

Ulster sure. but not them.

The things that would keep Heaslip and O'Brien in Ireland would not be financial.

Heaslip in particular has expressed an interest in going abroad.

The Irfu may well think that they will be made stro ger by the likes of Jordi Murphy having to step up. Never mind the shekels they would save.

Then they are fools. They are complete fools if they believe that the other parties to any new European tournament will give as high a percentage of TV money to a Leinster with Jordi Murphy not Heaslip or an Ulster with Paul Marshall not Pienaar. Both are much less attractive propositions for broadcasters. Big names sell tickets, big names sell subscriptions, big names justify our prescence at the top table. The more big players we lose, the less relevant we are to any new tournament.

They should be considering the impact losing these guys will have on their own revenue. This is a particularly critical time for them. If the next year of this standoff between the Unions and Franglo clubs goes badly the money we make from provincial rugby will fall and we'll be even more dependent on the national team to drive the game financially than ever.

Just playing into the Franglos hands.

Well, you could elaborate and clarify, instead of dealing in minimalistic half-sentences.

Notch wrote:We need to keep marquee players in Ireland if we want to secure the best deal possible for our provinces in any new tournament. We need to show that not only will we be remaining competitive in Europe, we'll also be able to offer the big-name players that add prestige to the tournament and attract casual fans. We simply can't afford to have marquee names crossing the Irish Sea this summer. The next round of contract negotiations are crucial.

You don't think any of that sentence would "interest the irfu". Fine. That suggestion will be given all the respect it is due.

Jen the stronger Irish rugby is the better it is for everyone, if Im not mistaken the TV money for the HC goes to the IRFU under the current accord, this could be the case under any new agreement if one is reached therefore they will want as big a piece of the pie as they can get.

If Pienaar or any other players go to France it weakens the IRFUs barginning position if players are jumping ship as the better players will already be in the competition. The French and English teams not only want the others on board, they need them in the long term but it is what they have to give away to get them on board that will make or break things

Don Alfonso wrote:Well, you could elaborate and clarify, instead of dealing in minimalistic half-sentences.

Notch wrote:We need to keep marquee players in Ireland if we want to secure the best deal possible for our provinces in any new tournament. We need to show that not only will we be remaining competitive in Europe, we'll also be able to offer the big-name players that add prestige to the tournament and attract casual fans. We simply can't afford to have marquee names crossing the Irish Sea this summer. The next round of contract negotiations are crucial.

You don't think any of that sentence would "interest the irfu". Fine. That suggestion will be given all the respect it is due.

.
fair enough so. I'm sorry I stumbled into your club and broke it's "rules" Consider me out. ignore any previous comments

Looks like Craig Gilroy will be on the bench at the weekend. Oh, how badly we need him...

So L'Equipe are reporting Pienaar has agreed to join Toulon. Possibly bullsheet.

If true, this is the most depressing start to a rugby season ever. I can take the two defeats, although they've been frustrating, its more the uncertainty over our ability to hold on to key players and the question marks over our future participation in any European competition.

I would question whether the IRFU are doing enough to resolve either of those issues. The worst news all season is that the ERC stakeholders aren't planning to meet again until October 23rd. What the hell? We would quite like to have this situation resolved with a great degree of urgency  

Do you have a link, Notch?

In Equipe:
http://www.lequipe.fr/Rugby/Actualites/Toulon-pienaar-c-est-fait/402290
 

Pienaar to Toulon, done!

As announced in our columns, South African international scrum half Ruan Pienaar, will join Toulon at the end of the season.

As revealed on Wednesday by the Team, Toulon has made an offer to Ruan Pienaar for next season. According to our information, the half back (29 years old) has accepted the club's proposal. The 70 cap South African international who will be at the end of contract with the Irish province of Ulster in June 2014, will commit to two years with the champions.

Another champion of the world (2007) recruited by Mourad Boudjellal, President of Toulon.

How many of the two teams that competed in the 2007 RWC final has Boudjellal now recruited?

"Another champion of the world (2007) recruited by Mourad Boudjellal, President of Toulon"

I love that last line. Really made me laugh out loud. I know it's just how it's translated by Google, but still... so dramatic and Stalinist.

Key phrase there is "according to our information"... we'll see.

And if so, so be it.l

By the way - did anyone see Nick Williams answering questions on Faceboke?

Best Ulster player is "Hendo", the "star man for Ulster this season" will be Ricky Lutton.

We went through a similar panic when L'Equipe announced Andrew Trimble was on the verge of signing for Stade Francais so we're just going to have to wait and see what happens.

I doubt we'll hear anything else about Pienaar until the end of the Rugby Championship. My gut instinct is it doesn't smell right though. He's talked about leaving actually; to go back to South Africa if thats what he needs to do to earn a spot in the team for the next World Cup. With him having established himself as a first choice 9 in this Rugby Championship, why would he go to Toulon to play at 10 when Wilkinson retires? That doesn't make a whole lick of sense to me.

Too early in the season for them finalising deals especially with Pienaar seemingly wanting to stay with Ulster and Ulster wanting to keep him