Ulster 2013/2014

First topic message reminder :

It had to come eventually.

Squad

HOOKER
Rory Best, Rob Herring, Niall Annett
PROP
Tom Court, Callum Black, Paddy McAllister, Declan Fitzpatrick, John Afoa, Bronson Ross, Adam Macklin, Ricky Lutton
LOCK
Johann Muller (c), Dan Tuohy, Neil McComb, Lewis Stevenson
BACKROW
Iain Henderson, Stephen Ferris, Mike McComish, Sean Doyle, Chris Henry, Robbie Diack, Roger Wilson, Nick Williams
SCRUM-HALF
Ruan Pienaar, Michael Heaney, Paul Marshall
OUTHALF
Paddy Jackson, James McKinney
CENTRES
Stuart Olding, Luke Marshall, Paddy Wallace, Darren Cave, Michael Allen
WING
Tommy Bowe, Andrew Trimble, Craig Gilroy, Chris Cochrane
FULL BACK
Jared Payne, Peter Nelson, David McIlwaine

Confirmed Pre-Season Games
Ulster Rugby vs Leinster Rugby, 23rd August
Leicester Tigers vs Ulster Rugby, 31st August

Heineken Cup Pool 5
Ulster Rugby, Leicester Tigers, Montpellier, Treviso

Ulster Rugby vs Leicester Tigers, 11th October
Montpellier vs Ulster Rugby, 19th October
Ulster Rugby vs Treviso, 7th December
Treviso vs Ulster Rugby, 14th December
Ulster Rugby vs Montpellier, 10th-12th January
Leicester Tigers vs Ulster Rugby, 17th-19th January

RaboDirectPro12

First five games starting on the 6th September;

Newport Gwent Dragons vs Ulster Rugby    
Ulster Rugby vs Glasgow Warriors            
Connacht Rugby vs Ulster Rugby
Ulster Rugby vs Benetton Treviso
Ospreys vs Ulster Rugby

Full fixtures at http://www.ulsterrugby.com/rugby/results_1stxv.php

AsLongAsBut100ofUs wrote:

Notch wrote:He needs exploratory surgery. Could this not have been established before he was discharged from their care? Was he rushed back far too soon to play in the final test match? Was his wrist given enough time to properly recover? Did he receive appropriate after-care after the final test match?

I'm guessing that you assume yes, yes, no and no, but it could as easily be the other way round, no?

If I knew the answers I wouldn't need to ask the questions!

Such a pity about Bowe and for him because Tommy just loves playing too. It happens unfortunately our priority now is to get him back properly healthy before he plays again.
In the meantime we need trimble and gilroy to start well and we will need to make sure the back ups are ready too because it's probable one of those guys at least will disappear to the Ireland squad.

Didn't Nelson play a couple on the wing early last season?

He did and with McIlwaine and Allen we will have cover there we just need to make sure they are ready to go.

rodders wrote:Aw come on Aukster, Bowe chose to play...and given how rare a Lions cap is I wouldn't blame him. He's a 5 time Lions test starter and now a test series winner, that will put him in the pantheon of the greatest Irish players when he retires.

It was a calculated risk to play.

Not too sure about that one Rodders.

I suppose it depends on whether this possible ligament damage occured at the time of the original injury or on his return to play/training. If it is the first then he should have had it diagnosed/sorted long before now. The final test was 5 and a half weeks ago.

If I were being really harsh I would say its another example of player welfare being ignored for short term gain. It's the same with the concussion protocols being reviewed.

Of course Bowe went along with it because all players want to play and be part of a lions win. I think it is a harsh thing to say but I suspect David Humphreys and Joe Schmidt will be more than a little annoyed.

Either way it's an opportunity for Gilroy and Trimble and I hope they take it. We have cover in Allen, Cochrane and Scholes as well not to mention Nelson and McIlwaine.

Standulstermen wrote:If I were being really harsh I would say its another example of player welfare being ignored for short term gain. It's the same with the concussion protocols being reviewed.

Of course Bowe went along with it because all players want to play and be part of a lions win. I think it is a harsh thing to say but I suspect David Humphreys and Joe Schmidt will be more than a little annoyed.

Either way it's an opportunity for Gilroy and Trimble and I hope they take it. We have cover in Allen, Cochrane and Scholes as well not to mention Nelson and McIlwaine.

Stand, I can assure ou that Dr James Robson, CMO for the B&I Lions, would not have permitted that

Robson wasn't the doctor who said he could get him back within 3 weeks though. It was some Aussie dude.

In truth I'm not that annoyed as we have adequate cover but the fact he picked up an injury on tour, then played a few game and now is out from the same injury is dodgy and I'm sure other (less laid back  ) folk would venture that opinion.

Northern Ireland fans are singing stand up for the Ulstermen at Windsor Park tonight nice to see them showing us their support lol

Who started that sing/chant, Neil?

No idea a random fan probs I am watching it on the tv, why mate?

Just realised Bowe may be out for 12 weeks..... Gatland you **&&%%!  

Ulster Rugby have just said he will be out for 4 - 6 weeks and not the 12 earlier reported.

From Ulster Rugby Official Facebook page......

Bowe back in four to six weeks

Ulster winger, Tommy Bowe, had minor surgery on his wrist this afternoon (Wednesday 14th August) to treat an injury he sustained playing for the British and Irish Lions in Australia during the summer.

The surgery went well and it is expected that Tommy will return to play in four to six weeks time.

Good news rodders

Ulster Rugby Official
Bowe back in four to six weeks

Ulster winger, Tommy Bowe, had minor surgery on his wrist this afternoon (Wednesday 14th August) to treat an injury he sustained playing for the British and Irish Lions in Australia during the summer.

The surgery went well and it is expected that Tommy will return to play in four to six weeks time.

Well that's better news. Means he could be in contention for the heineken. The earlier article wasa tad scaremongery in that it said if there was damage it could have been 12 weeks.

Well if you read the small print 12 was always the worst case scenario.

Irrespective of how long Bowe will be out for he shouldn't have had to get a follow-up operation. Let's hope he will be back in 4/6 weeks but I won't be holding my breath, given the number of players who have had 'false start' returns.

This situation has arisen because NH players are brainwashed into thinking that the Lions is far more important then their home nation and certainly their club/provincial team, so naturally Bowe would play when given the chance. Any of the tour party would do the same, but putting a career on the line for a cause that doesn't help his home nation one iota is bordering on reckless.

Maybe players are becoming so egotistical that the self-aggrandisement of a Lions cap is more important than National team performance, but risking the loss of players like Bowe from Test duty is very disruptive. Schmidt would have been hoping to have a group of core players to build the rest of his team around, and maybe try some new options in the weaker positions. If the core players are missing then he can't afford to field their replacements alongside new faces, otherwise the team would resemble some of the disjointed scratch sides running out as Wolfhounds.

I don't blame Bowe for grabbing the opportunity to play, but rather the Lion's management who shouldn't have given him that option. It looks like they were treating players like a rugby commodity to satiate their short term greed for success with no concern for players' future welfare.

Aukster,

It could be that the Lions' management just put their faith in the surgeon who operated. If this problem occured at the time of the original injury and was not fully dealt with by the initial operation then you can hardly blame the Lions staff.

A lot of "ifs" in there I know, but it could just be that they were not to blame.

Bowe himself could have easily overlooked symptoms as just his wrist/hand recovering following surgery. Those symptoms may only have been investigated when he returned to Ulster because they had persisted for so long. I have to say that the presence of James Robson in the Lions camp makes me lean towards the problem lying elsewhere. He is pretty much universally regarded as the medic most likely to protect his players.

Auk, MrsP.,
Can you remind me what was the exact injury?  I thought it was an injury to one of the metacarpals, but don't remember for sure.  It is not uncommon for a metacarpal injury to be accompanied by ligament damage, so the additional injury (it is ligament, right?), is not a surprise.  

Not a surprise, but is a shame.  Bowe is one of the players I really enjoy watching.  Odd sort of player in that he is not truly exceptional at any one thing (except for scoring tries and most likely covering up the pain in his hand).  But he does so many things very very well.

neilthom7 wrote:No idea a random fan probs I am watching it on the tv, why mate?

No real reason. I was wondering whether it was football or rugby, that was all.

MrsP is right. We haven't a clue what went on. As I remember it was Robson who thought Bowe was done but the Irish physio (I think) contacted some Ozzie doctor who said he had league players back within 3 weeks.

Interesting that the ulster statement does say that it was the injury he picked up with the Lions though and not something tht has happened since. I suspect when the possibility of 12 weeks was there they were raging.

The Great Aukster wrote:
This situation has arisen because NH players are brainwashed into thinking that the Lions is far more important then their home nation and certainly their club/provincial team, so naturally Bowe would play when given the chance. Any of the tour party would do the same, but putting a career on the line for a cause that doesn't help his home nation one iota is bordering on reckless.

Maybe players are becoming so egotistical that the self-aggrandisement of a Lions cap is more important than National team performance

 
I think thats harsh Aukster. The Lions has a certain prestige because of it's history and the great players who've worn the jersey. Conceptually any tour that involves the best players from 4 nations pitted against the worlds best teams, and that occurs only a handful of times in a players career is going to be a special experience. The lions also has that throwback aspect to the amateur era touring. I'm not a huge fan anymore but can fully understand why it is a career high for B&I players.
 
I'm frustrated to see Bowe out again but I see this as part and parcel of the game and not specific to the Lions - I mean BOD put his career on the line in the 2011 RWC with his shoulder problem, Rory Best has for sure played through neck and shoulder injuries recently too....I won't even mention Ferris...
 
If the medical team and coaches were negligent then that is not acceptable, but if the perception was that Bowe was fit enough to play the tests and has suffered a reinjury then thats just bad luck in my opinion.
 
In fact if I was to lay any blame on Bowe's current fitness woes it would be towards his time at the Ospreys were he played too many games for club and country over a 3 year period - something hilighted several times by the Irish management at the time. It's obviously just speculation on my part but I think this is catching up to Bowe now.

Grey,

I'm not sure they ever went into specifics about the original injury, just said it was a broken bone in his hand. So almost certainly a metacarpal.

He certainly hand internal fixation.

This time they are saying he had explorative surgery on his wrist. Back in 4-6 weeks sounds too fast to me if they repaired any ligaments. Maybe just removed a few wee intra-articular fragments or tidied up? What do you think?

MrsP.,
I suppose my concerns about players returning too quickly after injury is coming out again.  Firstly I agree with your analysis.  Makes sense.  I didn't realise the exploratory was on the wrist and not the hand (where ligament damage/separation is logical).  If only removing fragments and not a full tear, then 4-6 shuold be OK.  Even better for him, he can continue some cardio work after the first 2 weeks so that can help his return to action.  

Well, good luck to him - Hopefully he takes the full time to rehab properly.  

From the Examiner:

Bowe returned from the tour blissfully unaware of a further injury which apparently happened during the Third Test between British and Irish Lions in Sydney when he jarred the same wrist in a tackle.

http://examiner.ie/sport/rugby/bowe-ruled-out-for-up-to-six-weeks-239928.html

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/news/11656.php

Good news Mrs P and entirely fitting as a lot of the footfall will be youngsters.

Speaking of which there are a few interesting names in the current crop:

"The Ulster team controlled the remainder of the game with Christian Bennison taking advantage of a good counter attack from Thomas Gaston to run in for an unconverted try to put the Ulster team into a 32-5 lead.

The Ulster boys finished the game on the front foot. Rudolph Benade created mayhem in the Connacht defence and his pace and speed of hands sent David McMaster over the Connacht line for Ulster’s seventh try of the game. The conversion attempt was unsuccessful but the Ulster squad had done more than enough to win the game by an impressive 37-5 margin.

The next Ulster U19 game will be played against the Irish Exiles at the Queen’s University playing fields on Wednesday 21st August (KO 7pm). This game should prove to be another good test of the Ulster's credentials as the Exiles have already defeated Munster in a recent game."

Rory Best and Tommy Bowe available from round 4. Stuart Olding, Iain Henderson and Darren Cave are out until round two (at home to Glasgow).

Not sure about Tom Court, considering he featured for both Ireland in North America and the Lions.

Limits options for the Dragons game, anyway.

Possible team for the Dragons;

1. Court
2. Herring
3. Afoa/Fitzpatrick
4. Muller (c)
5. Tuohy
6. Diack
7. Henry
8. Williams
9. P. Marshall
10. Jackson
11. Trimble
12. L. Marshall
13. Payne
14. Gilroy
15. Nelson

Should be good enough if the majority of those get gametime in pre-season.

Notch wrote:Possible team for the Dragons;

1. Court
2. Herring
3. Afoa/Fitzpatrick
4. Muller (c)
5. Tuohy
6. Diack
7. Henry
8. Williams
9. P. Marshall
10. Jackson
11. Trimble
12. L. Marshall
13. Payne
14. Gilroy
15. Nelson

Should be good enough if the majority of those get gametime in pre-season.

Might be tempted to keep Payne at FB and give Farrell a blast at 13. Decent experience in all other positions, we could maybe afford a callow outside centre.

Yeah, although I think Nelson is a good prospect needing gametime too. Also considered Paddy Wallace-Luke Marshall midfield axis.

Just too underline the difference in culture between the Irish provinces and French clubs, whilst Best and Bowe won't be back on the pitch at all until 4th October at the earliest Jonny Sexton is playing for Racing Metro this weekend and played in a friendly last week.

Afoa is out for a month I thought.

Paddy mac/black
Herring
Fitz/paddy mac?
Muller
Tuohy
Diack
Henry (delighted he is available) Doyle if not
Williams
Marshall
Jackson
Gilroy
Marshall
Farrell
Trimble (again surprised) if not Nelson
Payne

Does anyone know if the Leinster pre-season game is being televised?

JayMaster3000 wrote:Does anyone know if the Leinster pre-season game is being televised?

I don't recall pre-season games ever being televised and certainly there has been no announcement to the contrary.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ulster-s-mark-anscombe-to-run-eye-over-fringe-players-in-friday-night-s-friendly-against-leinster-1.1499937

Maybe a team like this for the first friendly;

Callum Black, Niall Annett, Declan Fitzpatrick, Dan Tuohy, Johann Muller, Robbie Diack, Sean Doyle, Nick Williams, Michael Heaney, James McKinney, Michael Allen, Luke Marshall, Jared Payne, Craig Gilroy, David McIlwaine

Most of the internationals in there will only play 40, probably have to wait for next week to see guys like Trimble, Jackson, P. Marshall, Court. Might have two different teams in each half.

Bursting for this game to come.

That's great news regarding afoa. I had been led to believe he was out for the first month. I would go with Farrell at 13 for at least a half. It depends whether we go down the two separate 15 route as connacht have. I hope we don't.

Looks like the game is nearly sold out - has that happened for a pre-season game before?

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/news/11668.php

officially sold out now. No. I have never heard of such a thing.

Our season ticket cannot include pre season games though. As they are held in a stadium with a capacity smaller than the number of season tickets.

I know it's sold out, but there are still season tickets on sale and they include this game so there will be a few spaces unless all the season tickets sell out before kick off. Plus some season ticket holders will probably be on holiday and the like. And we have a reduced capacity for this match.

Still if we're getting 10k for a pre-season game thats good buisiness. As an aside, in one of the articles in the telegraph featuring bits of the Anscombe press conference its implied we'll be seeing a different team in each half.

Saw this on twitter, from an old match programme;

https://twitter.com/RavenhillRoar/status/369921518765375488/photo/1

Leinster team for tomorrow;

15: Darren Hudson
14: Darragh Fanning
13: Brendan Macken
12: Noel Reid
11: Andrew Boyle
10: Jimmy Gopperth
9: John Cooney

1: Jack O'Connell
2: Aaron Dundon
3: Martin Moore
4: Tadhg Beirne
5: Quinn Roux
6: Rhys Ruddock CAPTAIN
7: Dominic Ryan
8: Leo Auva'a

REPLACEMENTS FROM: James Tracy, Jack McGrath, Michael Bent, Tadhg Furlong, Ben Marshall, Jordi Murphy, Dan Leavy, Luke McGrath, Colm O'Shea, Adam Byrne, Thomas Daly, Billy Dardis, Thomas Farrell, Cathal Marsh

Fringe players, Academy lads and NIQs. We'll probably go for something similar.

Aaaaand the Ulster team;

15. Peter Nelson
14. Rory Scholes
13. Jared Payne (c)
12. Chris Farrell
11. Michael Allen
10. James McKinney
9. Michael Heaney

1. Kyle McCall
2. Niall Annett
3. Declan Fitzpatrick
4. Lewis Stevenson
5. Neil McComb
6. Mike McComish
7. Sean Doyle
8. Nick Williams

Replacements: C Black, J Murphy, B Ross, A O’Connor, D Tuohy, R Diack, R Wilson, I Porter, C Cochrane, L Marshall, D McIlwaine, R Andrew.

Roger Wilson is aliiiiiive!

But not Paddy Mac.

Excited about seeing the new ground, excited about seeing Farrell, Annett, Scholes, Nelson and McKinney in action, excited about ULSTER 2013/2014!!

Cannot. Wait. For. This.

Has anyoen seen the "Are You Ready?" video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H_-kLKqueU&noredirect=1

Boom.

I'm ready

Where is everyone?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/23825521

Sorry Notch have been busy with the new job I have made my glorious return now though, well somewhat distinctly average return

Notch wrote:Where is everyone?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/23825521

Thanks for the link mate!

Who stood out for you in the game? How was Payne at 13?