Scrumhalf choices for the Lions tour to Australia

First topic message reminder :

Six nations is done. We are a year on since I last held one of these polls and the long term aim was to compare what we selected a year out, a month out and the final squad.

You can pick one player only as your first choice.

I think I have grabbed most of the names in the hat, though my apologies if anyone you consider worthy has been forgotten, if you ask nicely then I am sure one of our excellent moderators might take the time to be kind enough to offer their much valued assistance.

The players included either showed in the Six Nations squads or have been regularly talked of as prospects on the various threads on here.

Looseheads - https://www.606v2.com/t42452-loosehead-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia

Hookers - https://www.606v2.com/t42471-hooker-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia

Tightheads - https://www.606v2.com/t42486-tighthead-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia

Lock No. 4 - https://www.606v2.com/t42501-number-4-lock-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia#1956467

Lock no. 5 - https://www.606v2.com/t42502-number-5-lock-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia

Blindside Flanker - https://www.606v2.com/t42514-blindside-flanker-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia

Openside Flanker - https://www.606v2.com/t42515-ospenside-flanker-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia#1956975

Number 8 - https://www.606v2.com/t42518-number-eight-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia#1958144

Flyhalf - https://www.606v2.com/t42539-flyhalf-choices-for-the-lions-tour-to-australia#1958609

I can't be bothered commeting on Phillips further. I have made 4 comments about why I wouldn't pick him on this very thread. Go read them if you can be ersed.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I can't be bothered commeting on Phillips further. I have made 4 comments about why I wouldn't pick him on this very thread. Go read them if you can be ersed.

He will be starting the first test. Perhaps his critics overlook his skills - equally his fans overlook is flaws. this then makes me wonder if all the votes for Youngs are more a case of Anyone-but-Philips?

LondonTiger wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I can't be bothered commeting on Phillips further. I have made 4 comments about why I wouldn't pick him on this very thread. Go read them if you can be ersed.

He will be starting the first test. Perhaps his critics overlook his skills - equally his fans overlook is flaws. this then makes me wonder if all the votes for Youngs are more a case of Anyone-but-Philips?

As a lot of people have pointed out over a large number of threads, I think that most people do not overlook Phillips' skills - they can appreciate them for what they are whilst holding an absolutely consistent view that they are not suitable for playing Australia.

I think that if you are regarding votes for the other players as 'anyone but Philips', you are doing something of a disservice to the considerable talents of the other possible choices. When England beat Australia in June 2010 in Sydney, Youngs was awarded man of the match. Care is a Jeff, Challenge Cup, 6Nations and Commonwealth Games medal winner. Not unreasonable to suggest that these things should be compared to Phillips' 0 from 6.

GC,

I feel that way, because so many people have elected for Ben Youngs ahead of other worthy candidates.

My own personal opinion, Youngs is good enough to start for the Lions - but so are others. If you did a poll of england fans about who should be England's scrum-half - I doubt Youngs woukld poll so high.

The poll is open until a week before the squad is announced, there is still a decent amount of rugby to be played and peoples thoughts and views may change. As it stands currently these are the Squad choices by the mob that contributes to 606V2.

I dont know the make up or how many he really will pick so i am just running with top three options...


Loosehead Prop 89 votes so far

Cian Healy 39
Ryan Grant 20
Gethin Jenkins 15


Hooker 92 votes so far

Rory Best 45
Richard Hibbard 21
Tom Youngs 11


Tighthead 74 votes so far

Adam Jones 47
Dan Cole 19
Euan Murray 4

Locks 144 votes so far over the two polls so averaging 72 Votes

Geoff Parling 29
Richie Gray 29
AWJ 21
Ian Evans 20


Blindeside Flankers 78 votes so far

Chris Robshaw 19
Kelly Brown 18
Sean O'Brien 17


Openside Flankers 74 votes so far

Justin Tipuric 33
Sam Warburton 14
Chris Robshaw 13 (leading the Blindside option)
Ross Rennie 8 (Next best after Robshaw)


Number Eight 73 votes so far

Toby Faletau 28
John Beattie 26
Ben Morgan 10


Scrumhalf 73 votes so far

Ben Youngs 38
Mike Phillips 20
Greig Laidlaw 10


Flyhalf 59 votes so far

Jonny Sexton 30
Owen Farrell 13
Dan Biggar 6


Inside Centre 53 votes so far

Billy Twelvetrees 11
Jonathan Davies 13 (Also 3rd in the outside centre Poll)
Matt Scott 11
Jamie Roberts & Luke Marshall 7 (If we were to consider JD2 at outside)


Outside Centre

Brian O'Driscoll 22
Manu Tuilagi 22
Jonathan Davies 9


Right Winger 44 Votes so far

Sean Maitland 22
Alex Cuthbert 11
Christian Wade 7


Left Winger 45 votes so far

George North 21
Tim Visser 8
Simon Zebo 5


Fullback 59 votes so far

Stuart Hogg 25
Leigh Halfpenny 22
Rob Keaney 7

Wow that is a big margin for Youngs. Hope he doesn't read this and get his hopes up. Phillips will start and you all know it really

LondonTiger wrote:GC,

I feel that way, because so many people have elected for Ben Youngs ahead of other worthy candidates.

My own personal opinion, Youngs is good enough to start for the Lions - but so are others. If you did a poll of england fans about who should be England's scrum-half - I doubt Youngs woukld poll so high.

That phenomenon is genuinely fascinating Tiger and I've seen it with a lot of players. It's like a member of your family - because they're yours you can criticise them more heavily than others. Lots of Wasps fans think that Hugo Southwell is excellent. You've more chance of finding hen's teeth than three Scotland fans who would agree with that based on his international 'contributions'.

Phillips
Murray
Youngs

Youngs only selected because I couldn't select lloyd Williams for being accused of bias. Care and Youngs have had some rubbish games and would scare me more if they were on my side than against me but no one else has put their hands up.

Laidlaw despite being talked up by the Scots is really nothing special and is another defensive liability. His stats for missed tackles in the 6N are really poor and I don't fancy that against Will Genia.

Phillips gets a lot of grief about slow service etc but I saw nothing wrong with it at all in the 6N and he is no slower than anyone else. He does however bring much more to the table defensively and attacking wise (can't stand a scrum half who only passes and never threatens around the fringes).

[quote="RuggerRadge2611"]

maestegmafia wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:There should have been an anyone but Phillips choice. I would be happy with any of the other nations scrummys or even another welsh scrum half. Just not Phillips please

Why...?

He seems to be the form scrumhalf yet again.

he is a great rugby player. He is big, strong, fast and tackles well. However he has the poorest scrum half skill set, his delivery is slow, he skips like a gazelle before making his pass, takes too much on himself and gets buried in rucks etc etc etc.

I'm not going to get embroiled in this topic again. He is a great player but he would be better suited at centre or number 8 rather than a scrum half.

Do you really expect to be taken seriously with comments like that

It is interesting to read what people write compared to which way the vote goes.

Ben Youngs established himself as the England scrum half over care, after his dismal performance vs Italy.

Phillips started slowly but when the big occasion came around he performed at his best.

But Laidlaw seemed to be many people's favourite but he placed third in this poll...?

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I'm not going to get embroiled in this topic again. He is a great player but he would be better suited at centre or number 8 rather than a scrum half.

dragonbreath wrote:
Do you really expect to be taken seriously with comments like that

Are you stalking me?

Phillips physical atributes and abilities suit being a number 8 or a crash ball centre more than a scrum half.

Look at Genia, Parra or further back at Joost van der Westhuizen or the famous Gareth Edwards. And then look at Phillips, and work out what type of player does well at that position....

Mike Phillips is a good 3 inches taller and 3 stone heavier than the nearest player in that list (Joost).

If Phillips wants to go charging around the park rampaging into contact put him in a position where he can do it. If he wants to play at Scrum half he needs to work on the skills that are required.

Here are comments from the media regarding a disasterous engagement between Phillips and Genia in one of Wales multiple losses to Australia over the last couple of years

On Genia :

There was one man head-and-shoulders above the rest, and it was Australia scrum-half Will Genia. On his home track and eyes glinting with mischief, the Reds halfback tore Wales apart in the first-half and put it beyond them with a try and an assist in the second.

On Phillips :

Villain of the Game: Wales needed their experienced heads to perform and Mike Phillips lost his. Gave away 10 yards with backchat in the first-half and conceded possession with quick taps when Wales should have been building territory from penalties.

http://www.espnscrum.com/wales-tour-2012/rugby/story/165437.html

I'd take Youngs, Care and Phillips, and leave them to fight it out over the course of the tour.

The fact is that Sexton is more than likely to be the 10, and we've never seen any of the above play alongside him, so until we do, difficult to decide who should start the tests.

I'd take Philips, cos he's unplayable on his day. And also Ben Youngs, he's a class SH but his temperamnet is questionable when things aren't going his way. For the 3rd position(The one who'll start against western force and the rebels!!) i'd go for Conor Murray over Danny Care. Just because Murray is a lot bigger and more physical. Philips and Youngs to have a real running battle though for the test start. Mouthwatering!!

Youngs, Laidlaw and Philips in that order

Philips only cos he is different

Why people keep saying Phillips had a good 6 nations - he had one good game - -

Look back at the threads for all the other games and how people were commenting on how poorly he was playing

It does seem that people memories are only one game long


I also agree with R Radge on his reasons

I will also add - that Phillips cost us the second test in the last lions by taking the ball from a ruck 2 metres out and diving into the bottom of a pile (Again) instead of passing to the 3 man overlap we had outside

Sorry, is not a scrum half

Youngs, Care, Murray but Phillips will certainly be chosen by Gatland agree with comments above given by RuggerRage.

Riskysports

A bit far fetched to say that Phillips cost the lions the second test... credit where is due, he had a very good series and was one of the 5 or so players that actually stood toe to toe with the boks... the others being Roberts, O'Driscoll, Croft & Shaw.

Had someone else played the Lions wouldn't have been in the game in the first 2 tests.... let alone close.

He is a decent SH but he is not a versatile one. He suits certain teams more than others. Against a team like NZ or AUS its better for the lions to have a "natural 9" like Youngs or Care.

A certain role I think is important for the scrumhalf this season will be the defensive "quarter-back" who floats about 5-10m out the line in case of chip kicks, linebreaks etc.... Danny Care is especially good at this role.

Phillips just isn't suited for this task.

Against the boks you need big lumps all over the field... against AUS you need a little more subtlety.

I'd have Murray, youngs and Phillips. All great scrum halves and I think it is good to have an old head like Phillips who has been on a lions tour before combined with youth of youngs and Murray who both had a fantastic 6N

Murray is blowing Care out of contention. Looking seriously classy today. Care makes far too many serious and costly mistakes

Another weekend done and dusted. The squad to be announced after the next...!